What, no topic on the rumors about Zo? - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 06-04-2002, 11:21 PM

i'd hate to lose raef or fin... but i'd love to have jones and zo.
jones is a solid defender and good scorer
zo is still a solid defender and a good scorer as well.

this makes it very difficult.
you'd be giving up a young pf/c and one of the better 2 guards in the league..
plus an inconsistent guy off of the bench

David · 06-05-2002, 05:59 AM

This discussion presumes Zo is in good health, and with his kidney situation, that's no slam dunk.

Murphy3 · 06-05-2002, 07:30 AM

well, to have certain discussions, it is necessary to make certain assumptions..especially since none of us are in position to say whether or not he's healthy or not

kg_veteran · 06-05-2002, 08:18 AM

I like the idea of Zo for NVE and LaFrentz, but throwing in basically a Finley for Jones swap has no appeal to me. Finley's contribution to the Mavs goes beyond simply being a very good SG. He's an emotional leader, and the guy looked at by the rest of the team as the foundation of the team by virtue of his tenure. In short, I don't trade him unless someone just knocks me over with a great deal. And this isn't that deal.

kg_veteran · 06-05-2002, 08:20 AM

One more thought: With the Heat having a stated goal of clearing cap room, they might be willing to do an NVE for Grant swap (if the cap numbers work). Grant is still tied down for several more years, while NVE only has 2 left. Also, they almost certainly aren't gonna deal Zo, unless it's for a young stud who they want to tie down for a long time to come. Last time I checked, we didn't have one of those we were willing to offer.

Murphy3 · 06-05-2002, 08:56 AM

they might be willing to deal for finley.
fin has several years left on his contract..he should be at or around this level for about the remainder of his contract.
raef is young, not a stud, but definitely a guy that capable of being a solid player for the next 10 years.
that's a pretty good combo

zo has one year left on his contract at an insane price.
it would be something they would consider

TheKid · 06-05-2002, 09:28 AM

Because Zo has only one more year on his contract, that might be why they won't deal him. With his kidney situation, the KNOW they'll be able to sign him for an amount that he really couldn't argue with and that would be the same with alot of teams that are contenders. If Zo left it would be for a contender and that would mean any contender (Lakers, Mavs, Spurs, New Jersey or Boston)they're NOT going to give him the money other teams would be willing to sign him for as well as Miami. So that's why I think Miami would want to keep Zo.

NOW, unless they were going to get something that they really thought was of substance they would probably trade Zo and you know how Riley loves defense and Raef is NOT the defensive player that Riley loves, so I think it would take more than that to get Zo over here. I wouldn't be willing to mortgage the team simply for Zo either.

FilthyFinMavs · 06-05-2002, 10:17 AM

I agree KG im not for tradign Finley but if its that great of a deal then do it but bringing in an uncertatin Mourning and a Grant who yes can bang but stats look similiar to Raefs is not a great deal tho can be meaningful. I prefer the Mourning and Grant trade becasue we do not need anymore guards on this squad. Eddie has good d but I think Griffen or Bucks d is abotu similiar to Eddies. I say the bigger the better and if somehow we can get Zo and Grant in a deal without giving up Finley or any of the big 3 for that matter would be great. Though if the deal featured NVE it bothers me to see how we can succeed with a banged up pg like Nash without having a backup? Unless somehow we could sign Michael Redd. I like Redd I know he is gonna be a future star in this league but im not sure if he is a point guard or a 2 though he is listed pg I dont think he plays like it.

Murphy3 · 06-05-2002, 10:52 AM

yes, the mavs need a backup pg, however, nve isn't the answer at that spot.
and the mavs need an inside presence more than a scoring backup PG

kg_veteran · 06-05-2002, 10:53 AM

And backup PG's are more plentiful than quality big men.

FilthyFinMavs · 06-05-2002, 11:20 AM

<< yes, the mavs need a backup pg, however, nve isn't the answer at that spot.
and the mavs need an inside presence more than a scoring backup PG >>

This is true but even Twolves said that it was hard to defeat the Mavs because when Nash got tired we got another good point guard in the game with NVE adn we didnt lose a step. If yall think Brian Grant is the answer to our problems I would have to disagree because the last Miami Heat game I saw he was just another jump shooter just like Juwan Howard. Im interested in Mourning but it does bother me that Miami is trying to ship him out instead of getting the money from his contract in 03.

Murphy3 · 06-05-2002, 11:35 AM

the wolves aren't exaclty the kings or the lakers... the mavs could have thrown shawn bradley out there at guard and the kings would have been impressed

threadkilla · 06-05-2002, 12:30 PM

I was looking at the statistics of the two centers we are rumored to be interested in. Olowokandi and Mourning. It is interesting to see that Zo with a serious illness and less stamina then he had previously, but he put up slightly better numbers then the Kandiman.

zo olowokandi

games 75 80
min 32.7 32.1
fg att 11.5 11.1
fg pct 51.6 43.3
ft att 5.7 2.4
ft pct 65.7 62.2
boards 8.4 8.9
ast 1.2 1.1
blk 2.5 1.8
to 2.4 2.2
pts 15.7 11.1

I think Zo is a better player then Kandiman even with his medical problems. The issues are longevity, and age. Kandiman also might actually improve where I think Zo can continue to play at a high level, but he won't improve. I think either of these guys help the mavs in their main problem areas. The asking price will be very high.

FilthyFinMavs · 06-05-2002, 12:45 PM

YEa Zo has the better stats and is the better player. But I think the reason everyone thinks that Olowakandi is an up and coming center in this league and is a late bloomer so they say. I think the reason why his stats are bad is because he really didnt play to well at ethbeginning of the season and then later in the season he started playing good ball. Everyone in the media is saying Olowakandi is only playing better because he is about to be a free agent and is trying to boost up his value.

threadkilla · 06-05-2002, 01:28 PM

If we are going to have to give up premium talent, I wouldn't do it for either one of those guys. Get a younger cheaper center in here, and go for broke on an athletic versatile 3.

Murphy3 · 06-05-2002, 01:32 PM

well, i guess the option you're looking at is stay pat and have the exact same issues next year in the playoffs.
no, you don't break the bank to bring in a mediocre 4 or 5 but if it's a trade that addresses the biggest issue in return for something the mavs have plenty of

threadkilla · 06-05-2002, 01:53 PM

I am not saying we should stay pat. Mourning on the mavs would be a scary sight for the rest of the nba. He play 75 games and 32.7 minutes per game last season. He has to be pretty damn healthy to do that. He works very hard on both ends of the floor. He is a monster defensively. The question is what do we have to give up to get him. If we have to give up Finley but we get Eddie Jones in return the I say do it. But if we have to give up Fin and not get a similiarly skilled 2 back, then I have a problem with it.

Plus we still need a 3.

Bayliss · 06-05-2002, 04:08 PM

<< Plus we still need a 3. >>

Maybe I'm the only poster that feels our small forward isn't that bad. We will sign Askrabic. Give him 15-20 minutes a game. That leaves 23-28 minutes a game for Griffin, Dirk, Najera, Finley, to use.

Yes it would be nice to have a guy at small forward that would play 35-40 minutes but we aren't going to find it yet.

Let Askrabic play the majority of the minutes then let Griffin play some at small forward, while Fin's at the 2. Let Dirk play some small forward and Nellie go big. And let Najera play some small forward.

Problem solved. Too bad Nellie doesn't like rookies and doesn't like going big.

Damn.

Drbio · 06-05-2002, 04:15 PM

Problem solved. Too bad Nellie doesn't like rookies and doesn't like going big.

Which makes me wonder if the problem really can be solved.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

TheKid · 06-05-2002, 04:16 PM

Actually Meister, I'm in agreement with you, I don't think we're that bad at that position, considering it's our BEST defensive position and we really don't need scoring from that position either. I really don't see the need for it either. Now if we can get someone cheap via free agency then I'm all for it (for instance like Newman this year he was cheap and helped us out)other than that I think we have more important needs.

My list of important issues goes:

1. A big man who can bang inside.
2. Resign LaFrentz.
3. Back up point guard if Van Exel goes.
4. Try to keep Donnie.
5. Another shotblocker (if we lose Raef this moves up on the list)
6. Some dept defensively on the front line.
7. Resign Najera.

Then somewhere after that some other things falls in line but a 3 surely isn't at the top of the list.

Hoopsmeister · 06-05-2002, 04:26 PM

<< Actually Meister, I'm in agreement with you, I don't think we're that bad at that position, considering it's our BEST defensive position and we really don't need scoring from that position either. I really don't see the need for it either. Now if we can get someone cheap via free agency then I'm all for it (for instance like Newman this year he was cheap and helped us out)other than that I think we have more important needs. >>

Actually, I think you are agreeing with Bayliss. FWIW, I agree with Bayliss IF we are signing Askrabic and IF he is what he's projected to be. I know reports are we had the inside track with him, but I think counting him as a done deal is premature based on the reports I've seen so far. I also have not heard Donnie's take on him. As I said before, Donnie has earned a lot of trust on scouting internationals so if we sign Askrabic to be our starting 3, I'm happy. But there are still some question marks there.

Bayliss · 06-05-2002, 04:33 PM

True, Hoopsmeister. I trust Liittle Nellie a lot. And yeah we actually need to sign him.

But I may be embellishing his talent a little bit but Vlade compared him to Hedo. (Murph, you are just going to have to see if he is as goofy as Hedo. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]) And he was the best pure shooter in Europe. To me that's scary to think. Someone that is 6'9" with arms like a 7'0"er and can shoot like a shooting guard yet is versatile enough to guard small forwards and is a pretty good rebounder for someone with a thin frame.

I admit it, I'm intrigued. A LOT.

FilthyFinMavs · 06-05-2002, 05:18 PM

Is Askrabic a rookie? Or a free agent. I know squat about him but if he is good enough to be are starting small foward that lets sign him. Another question is he good jump shooter like Dirk? I think ever since Hubert Davis left he havent really foudn that guy we could pass the ball to and he would drain a 3 well I think Wang did a nice job of that too.

Hoopsmeister · 06-05-2002, 05:26 PM

<< Is Askrabic a rookie? Or a free agent. I know squat about him but if he is good enough to be are starting small foward that lets sign him. Another question is he good jump shooter like Dirk? I think ever since Hubert Davis left he havent really foudn that guy we could pass the ball to and he would drain a 3 well I think Wang did a nice job of that too. >>

Askrabic is a free agent. He was in the draft last year but a broken ankle kept him from working out for any teams and he went undrafted which means he can now sign with anyone.

That's the caveat to all Bayliss' potential positives.

MavsFanFinley · 06-05-2002, 08:07 PM

Bayliss makes a strong point about Askrabic being able to log 15-20 minutes, even with the way Nelson treats rookies.

Griffin, Finley and Dirk are all capable of filling in the remaining minutes.

You have to remember that Najera was able to earn a starting job, even though we were thinner at the time, admittedly.

Not saying Askrabic would be able to do the same, but if he's as good as we're hearing about, I can see Nelson giving him around that type of time.

Also, we're a much stronger team collectively and could afford to put a rookie out there now.

I could see Nelson relaxing up some for about 10 minutes for this guy when you have Fin, Dirk, Raef and Nash out there to surround him.

Hoopsmeister · 06-05-2002, 08:35 PM

<< Bayliss makes a strong point about Askrabic being able to log 15-20 minutes, even with the way Nelson treats rookies. >>

The way Nelson treats most rookies and how he'll treat a player who's been playing professionally in the best of the Euroleagues for several years are not necessarily comparable.

Drbio · 06-05-2002, 09:57 PM

Good point. Askrabic isn't a typical rookie.