Josh Howard More Banged Up Than We Thought - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

mavErika · 10-26-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

No surprise return by Josh
3:01 PM Mon, Oct 26, 2009

As mentioned over the weekend, Josh Howard won't be available for the season opener and probably several more games.

Here's what Rick Carlisle had to say today after practice:

"We played seven games without him. We've become accustomed to it. We know we're better with him. But it could be awhile. It could a few weeks. I don't know. We'll find a way without him. But we know we're better with him. When he comes back, we'll have to be ready to integrate him very quickly.''

Howard, recovering from ankle and wrist surgeries in the off-season, did not scrimmage today.

--Eddie Sefko

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/
Did he participate in more than one scrimmage after his surgery? Maybe they felt it was too early for him to do scrimmages after watching him play.
If he did several, it really is discomforting news and could mean a setback.

here's a similiar post from espn-dallas

Quote:

Ankle, wrist injuries hampering Howard

DALLAS -- On the eve of the season opener, the Dallas Mavericks don't know when Josh Howard will be ready for game action.

Howard, who underwent operations on his left ankle and wrist on May 22, wasn't cleared for any contact work until Oct. 14. He has yet to complete a full practice and will not dress out for Tuesday's opener against the Washington Wizards.

While there is still some soreness in the wrist, the ankle is preventing Howard from playing. He had minor reconstructive surgery on the ankle, which had bothered him since his senior season at Wake Forest in 2002-03.

The Mavericks are exercising patience with Howard. The priority is getting him completely healthy, not rushing him back into the lineup.

"It could be a while," coach Rick Carlisle said. "It could be weeks. I don't know. I don't know. We'll find a way without him, but we know we're better with him. When he comes back, we'll have to be ready to integrate him very quickly."

The Mavericks went 17-13 in games Howard missed last season. They were 33-19 with him in the lineup.

Tim MacMahon covers the Mavericks for ESPNDallas.com

xrobx · 10-26-2009, 06:39 PM

we need to face it, he's not going to play for a long time, and will always be a constant injury risk. we should trade him while he's worth something, if it's not already too late for that.

Underdog · 10-26-2009, 07:09 PM

It could be a day-by-day thing with Josh, since he's useless to the Mavs if he isn't 100% (he can't afford another injury) - hopefully his delayed return is a result of him listening to his body...

(or maybe Josh and Damp are about to be packaged for a legit 5?)

SMC0007 · 10-26-2009, 08:26 PM

xrobx - Who in the hell wants an injured player? "Here just take *insert star player* because we are really interested in an injured JHO, btw any idea on when he is gonna be able to play for us?"

UD-Idk that it is his call. I think they question how his ankle feels but I'm sure the training staff has drills and tests to evaluate him over anything he says. I would also imagine that he may have had some swelling or bruising after heavier workouts or practice and scrimmages. Obviously just quessing but I would be surprised that they go on his words because that could hurt he and the team. Alot of players will say they are fine to play and feel great and they are just eager to get back. That is what we don't need.

badfish22 · 10-26-2009, 08:34 PM

Fish is on ESPN radio right now. Hes saying the same things I was. I just doesn't make sense that Josh isn't healthy. Fish thinks that Josh didn't rehab like he should of. Like its not a big deal for him.

EricaLubarsky · 10-26-2009, 08:48 PM

No one here thinks he has the same work ethic as Dirk, but its silly to think there is any conspiracy. He may not be back as quickly as someone who is busting testicles and telling his coach that he's good when he's less than 100%, but from everything Ive read he appears to be doing all the rehab necessary and wants to get back to playing. As badly as Dirk would want back in the game? Probably not, but that also doesnt mean he's playing games.

I tend to agree with Dirno-- I dont think Josh is playing games, and I dont think there is anything spectacular going on we dont know about. When a player does an interview they always say they are doing well. Its not that he got caught in some lie. I also think that Carlisle is sick and tired of the whole thing from being asked to hearing conflicting reports on when he will have his player back.

As I understand it Carlisle wanted to make some changes in the pre-season, but wasnt able to include Howard in them because he was a DNP ankle. Now we are at the beginning of the season and Howard is still not 100% and has yet to play real minutes with the new-look Mavs after missing out on the entire camp.

Howard wants to play. Carlisle wants him to play. Carlisle wants people to stop asking him because he isnt the freaking doctor and every body recovers at a different rate. Any doctor would tell you that every body is different and acts differently.

jthig32 · 10-26-2009, 08:54 PM

I generally agree with that viewpoint, Erica. One thing does give me pause though; I've never heard Fish throw out a theory that I felt would make Cuban mad. I've never accused him of being a lapdog for Cubes, but I don't think there's any question that part of his job is being an indirect mouthpiece.

If Fish is pushing the notion that Josh hasn't worked his hardest to get back, then I'd be willing bet that there are people in the organization with that feeling, and Cubes is one of them.

dirno2000 · 10-26-2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Fish is on ESPN radio right now. Hes saying the same things I was. I just doesn't make sense that Josh isn't healthy. Fish thinks that Josh didn't rehab like he should of. Like its not a big deal for him.

If I remember correctly he wasn't cleared to run until a week or two before camp. If that's the case most of the rehab has been on the Mavs watch.

EricaLubarsky · 10-26-2009, 09:06 PM

If Howard's ankle has been a chronic condition for 7 years, and he's had various other skeletal/muscular problems related to having his legs broken and reset as a child, I dont see any reason why we should expect him to have a similar recovery to Dirk or even the average NBA player who doesnt have the healing powers of Wolverine or T-1000. If its only been 8-10 weeks since he got the boot off, and 4 weeks since he was cleared to run in a linear fashion, I dont see why 2 more weeks is unreasonable. Just because he ran through a few drills where his ankle's horizontal movement was not stressed doesnt mean he is ready to play NBA ball that puts amazing strain on every joint even without an injury.

foglemann · 10-26-2009, 09:12 PM

I have no doubt that something is wrong here. Have we looked up these surgeries and how long the rehab is? Or a player who had one of these done?

Josh has always come across as a jackass and has probably sat on his ass getting high (no testing in the offseason).

Windmill360 · 10-26-2009, 09:18 PM

I have no doubt that nothing is wrong here.

foglemann · 10-26-2009, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windmill360

I have no doubt that nothing is wrong here.

I have no doubt that something is wrong here.

How many times you want to go? And your proof 6 months rehab is OK?

tcat075 · 10-26-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foglemann

I have no doubt that something is wrong here. Have we looked up these surgeries and how long the rehab is? Or a player who had one of these done?

Josh has always come across as a jackass and has probably sat on his ass getting high (no testing in the offseason).

Wait...Josh "sat on his ass getting high" and presumably "sitting on his ass getting high" during the regular season because there is "no testing in the offseason". Well, your first example is the preseason and the second (presumed) example is the regular season, so what was that whole offseason non-testing thing for?

Anyway...hopefully, this team can manage until Josh returns (as we've seen, it looks like they can do a pretty good job) and then when he does return to the lineup, it will be like a dose of...well...it will be a boost to the team even moreso. Especially if the team's doing well, then Josh can be eased back into playing significant minutes, maybe going from 10 minutes to 35 minutes in the span of 6 to 7 games.

During Josh's absence, I really hopes Carlisle gives us a little dose of Roddy. While it does come down to how well he plays, obviously, you have to give the kid a chance for him to play well. I don't think he's going to be an every game rotation player this year but he might be able to give us that early spark in some games that Josh so often provides.

By the way, has there been any word on who will end up starting at the 2? I know Carroll and Roddy started there preseason, and I've got this gut feeling that those two won't be the opening day SG starter (or, removing the sarcasm, they've got no shot in hell of starting). Ross would make sense position wise, while Barea would make sense experience-wise (has proven himself). I doubt JET would be removed from his award winning role from last year. I think its Ross or Barea, but I really can't tell which.

dirno2000 · 10-26-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Wait...Josh "sat on his ass getting high" and presumably "sitting on his ass getting high" during the regular season because there is "no testing in the offseason". Well, your first example is the preseason and the second (presumed) example is the regular season, so what was that whole offseason non-testing thing for?

Anyway...hopefully, this team can manage until Josh returns (as we've seen, it looks like they can do a pretty good job) and then when he does return to the lineup, it will be like a dose of...well...it will be a boost to the team even moreso. Especially if the team's doing well, then Josh can be eased back into playing significant minutes, maybe going from 10 minutes to 35 minutes in the span of 6 to 7 games.

During Josh's absence, I really hopes Carlisle gives us a little dose of Roddy. While it does come down to how well he plays, obviously, you have to give the kid a chance for him to play well. I don't think he's going to be an every game rotation player this year but he might be able to give us that early spark in some games that Josh so often provides.

By the way, has there been any word on who will end up starting at the 2? I know Carroll and Roddy started there preseason, and I've got this gut feeling that those two won't be the opening day SG starter (or, removing the sarcasm, they've got no shot in hell of starting). Ross would make sense position wise, while Barea would make sense experience-wise (has proven himself). I doubt JET would be removed from his award winning role from last year. I think its Ross or Barea, but I really can't tell which.

Fish says it's Ross

Usually Lurkin · 10-26-2009, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

If I remember correctly he wasn't cleared to run until a week or two before camp. If that's the case most of the rehab has been on the Mavs watch.

there's probably a lot of rehab to be done before running.

dirno2000 · 10-26-2009, 10:55 PM

Depends on when the boot came off.

The bottom line is we have no idea what the actual injury was, what type of surgery he had or the original prognosis was because the team never told us any of that. All we have to go on are vague estimates from the coach.

We do know that they felt good enough about where he was to put him on the floor for a scrimmage and he obviously wasn't ready. I'm not sure how you attribute that to a lack of rehab.

badfish22 · 10-26-2009, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

We do know that they felt good enough about where he was to put him on the floor for a scrimmage and he obviously wasn't ready. I'm not sure how you attribute that to a lack of rehab.

Ummmmmmm.........

lol but your right, we don't know what actually happened. We can just speculate right now. But it could be speculated that Josh didn't work as hard during the off season as he could have.

And dont give me that "not everyone has Dirks work ethic" BS. These guys are making millions of dollars, he should have done everything he possibly could have to get back in game shape.

Again purely speculation. Maybe he did do everything he could have, but his surgery is just taking longer than normal.

Windmill360 · 10-26-2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

While there is still some soreness in the wrist, the ankle is preventing Howard from playing. He had minor reconstructive surgery on the ankle, which had bothered him since his senior season at Wake Forest in 2002-03. http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba...ory?id=4596690

This has been with him for several years and it got to the point where he needed surgery. It's better to wait until he is completely healed rather then to risk any lingering pain or discomfort.

dirno2000 · 10-26-2009, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Ummmmmmm.........

lol but your right, we don't know what actually happened. We can just speculate right now. But it could be speculated that Josh didn't work as hard during the off season as he could have.

And dont give me that "not everyone has Dirks work ethic" BS. These guys are making millions of dollars, he should have done everything he possibly could have to get back in game shape.

Again purely speculation. Maybe he did do everything he could have, but his surgery is just taking longer than normal.

My point was that his rehab was going so well that they felt comfortable with him scrimmaging two weeks before the start of the season. The fact that the injury didn't respond like they hopped it would probably has more to do with his physiology than his failure to work hard enough.

alby · 10-26-2009, 11:54 PM

Whether he's faking or not... or whether he's going 100% full throttle in his rehab or not. The truth of the matter is when the guy is healthy (both mentally and physically) and flying around the court, he is a special player.

He is what Felix Jones is for the Cowboys. Without him, the Mavericks will be a solid solid team. With a right Josh Howard, the Mavericks would be a legitimate contender that would make considerable noise in the Western Conference.

Let's try to keep the guy happy and give him the benefit of the doubt. In the meantime, cheer for the Mavericks that ARE on the court. If that means encouraging Carroll or Dampier after a bad play, the fans in the stadium should do it.

When I lived in the Bay Area for a couple years and got season tickets to the Warriors games, the crowd (as you know was very loud), but they were also very encouraging to the young players. I am quite sure that that crowd won more than a handful of games for that team... even during their down years.

Go Mavericks, take care of business tomorrow and please someone with good mojo make the GDT!

tcat075 · 10-27-2009, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Fish says it's Ross

If he's right, we're going to hear about it until the end of the year.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-27-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

If Howard's ankle has been a chronic condition for 7 years, and he's had various other skeletal/muscular problems related to having his legs broken and reset as a child, I dont see any reason why we should expect him to have a similar recovery to Dirk or even the average NBA player who doesnt have the healing powers of Wolverine or T-1000. If its only been 8-10 weeks since he got the boot off, and 4 weeks since he was cleared to run in a linear fashion, I dont see why 2 more weeks is unreasonable. Just because he ran through a few drills where his ankle's horizontal movement was not stressed doesnt mean he is ready to play NBA ball that puts amazing strain on every joint even without an injury.

Right but putting it this way....I wouldn't be surprised if it was another month or two.

AO41 · 10-27-2009, 08:51 AM

SOOOOO the my friends, what happens when the Mavs are rolling and its time for Josh to come back????????????

IMO that will F up our season...like Nelson coming back to the Magic in the Finals, this situation is bad IMO either way you look at it.

SMC0007 · 10-27-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AO41

SOOOOO the my friends, what happens when the Mavs are rolling and its time for Josh to come back????????????

IMO that will F up our season...like Nelson coming back to the Magic in the Finals, this situation is bad IMO either way you look at it.

You are f ing up our season with nonsense like this. Thanks

EricaLubarsky · 10-27-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AO41

SOOOOO the my friends, what happens when the Mavs are rolling and its time for Josh to come back????????????

IMO that will F up our season...like Nelson coming back to the Magic in the Finals, this situation is bad IMO either way you look at it.

It may be a transition that Carlisle wanted to make in camp, but bringing an x-factor guy back can never be a bad thing.

And for what its worth Nelson may have been slightly disruptive to the Magic's post-season but at the same time the Magic way overachieved last year. The Cavs were easily much better and yet made the playoffs where a dominant West tema faced off against their team that wasnt even best of the East.

sike · 10-27-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AO41

SOOOOO the my friends, what happens when the Mavs are rolling and its time for Josh to come back????????????

IMO that will F up our season...like Nelson coming back to the Magic in the Finals, this situation is bad IMO either way you look at it.

"So the my friends"? I can't get past that.

Kidd Karma · 10-27-2009, 07:26 PM

Hey he's not going to cost us much personnel wise when we do get him back. I think Ross-Kidd-Terry will be adequate. What it does mean, is we'll see more of the midget backcourt and some Humphries. More Marion at the 3, than the 4. Marion-Gooden-Dirk-Jet-Kidd to finish....or Kidd-Terry-Ross-Marion-Dirk to finish. Our roster versatility gives us a few nice options.

SMC0007 · 11-03-2009, 01:02 PM

Injury update: X-rays were negative on Drew Gooden's right rib cage. He is listed as doubtful for tonight's game against Utah.

Gooden missed the Clippers game on Saturday after he was injured in the fourth quarter against the Lakers on Friday.

There was good news on the injury front Monday. Tim Thomas, who had knee surgery in late September, went through part of the live practice for the first time.

"It was the first short step," Thomas said. "It was fun to be out there mixing it up. The key now is to get my legs under me. At some point, it felt a little weak. But it's mind over matter from here. I just have to get back into basketball shape."

No timetable has been set for Thomas' return to game action.

Meanwhile, Josh Howard may be working harder than any Maverick. Inactive for five months after ankle surgery, Howard has been putting in overtime on agility, strength and conditioning drills, in addition to participating in some scrimmages.

Howard missed Monday's workout with a sinus infection, but his aggressive workouts of late indicate he's making good progress toward a return to game action. No timetable has been set

antoinewalker · 11-03-2009, 10:11 PM

why would josh howard have any incentive to fake it?

sefant77 · 11-04-2009, 12:32 AM

My guess is we see him saturday off the bench. He looks like really close to come back and i guess they didnt want to throw him in b2b games and give him that 5 days more...

mavErika · 11-04-2009, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

My guess is we see him saturday off the bench. He looks like really close to come back and i guess they didnt want to throw him in b2b games and give him that 5 days more...

sounds like a good guess

Quote:

Tim MacMahon (ESPNDallas): Josh Howard is chatting with the Mavs broadcast crew from the bench to begin the second quarter. He could be on the court as soon as Saturday night against the Raptors.

jthig32 · 11-07-2009, 09:23 AM

I heard part of Carlisle's interview on Galloway yesterday. First of all let me say that I've never heard Carlisle so energetic and happy about how the team is playing. He sounded genuinely excited about their level of energy even when they aren't making shots.

Now, about Josh: Carlisle made it very clear that they are just being extremely, extremely cautious with him right now. I got the distinct impression that if this were the playoffs or even late in the season that he would be playing no question. He talked about how his lingering injury affected the Mavs last year. He said he went back and charted all the games Josh missed and it was amazing how regularly he missed games. Said his longest games played streak from last year was 22 games.

So they're just being ultra cautious right now, trying to make sure that when he does come back he ready to roll for the whole season.

I bet he plays Tuesday.

Windmill360 · 11-07-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foglemann

I have no doubt that something is wrong here.

How many times you want to go? And your proof 6 months rehab is OK?

what was that?

mavErika · 11-13-2009, 01:51 PM

Howard out indefinitely

Quote:

Josh Howard is going back on the inactive list indefinitely, coach Rick Carlisle said after the Mavericks' shootaround this morning.

The Mavericks made the decision to give Howard more time to recover from his off-season left ankle surgery after he had difficulty in the second of back-to-back games earlier this week.

Howard did not re-injure the ankle. But he was limping on it during the second half of the San Antonio game Wednesday and was taken out for the rest of the game. After the game, he called it a speed bump.

Howard missed the first five games of the season, returned Saturday against Toronto and played solidly in two games before having trouble at San Antonio.

"We're going to shut Josh down again for a while, just to make sure he gets some more time to rehab and strengthen it,'' Carlisle said. "He hasn't had any setbacks or anything like that. We just feel it's the best thing. There's no definite time period.''

--Eddie Sefko

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

First of all let me say that I've never heard Carlisle so energetic and happy about how the team is playing. He sounded genuinely excited about their level of energy even when they aren't making shots.

...his contentment with the team didn't last too long. Maybe he felt he did go out on a limb here, only to watch his team stink it up for the first half against Houston and then the SA game - that would justify his outbursts sufficiently to me, if that ever needed justification.

Dirkenstien · 11-13-2009, 02:43 PM

Better safe than sorry. I'm glad they're reporting he didn't re-injure it.

rabbitproof · 11-13-2009, 03:15 PM

Shoot. Give the man til 2010 if necessary. I just want us to ball together for 3-4 months solid.

jthig32 · 11-13-2009, 03:30 PM

This is getting bizarre.

DavidDaMonkey · 11-13-2009, 05:01 PM

Deep down in my loins I am not happy about this, but from a logical standpoint I recognize that if this means he finally is once and for all healthy, even if that's not til 2010, then it's the right choice.

Bayliss · 11-13-2009, 06:02 PM

Here's a good question:

Will Josh Howard ever play in 70+ games in a year for a team?

I doubt he will. His fault or not, he just can't be counted on to play the majority of games.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-13-2009, 06:13 PM

The alarming part is that Howard's ankle hasn't been healthy for a while now. It almost seems worse after surgery. When was the last time we saw Howard on the court without a limp?