Woj: WCS to Mavs

[LukaThaDon]

I'm assuming we would have to give up at least 1 if not both of DFS and Brunson. I don't think the MBT would do that for a rental and I wouldn't blame them.

[G-Man]

I can't imagine a better scenario. Its basically a free replacement for a starter, with another guy who's been playing 22 minutes a night. WCS was a high lottery pick from Kentucky. He probably never played on a losing team until he got to the NBA, and a lot of guys have a hard time adjusting to losing every night. Imagine if, every day, when you finished your job, there was a scoreboard, and most nights it told you you had failed. I can easily imagine WCS mentally checking out...lots of others have done the same.

So he has the physical potential. He'll get minutes. And unlike the multitude of RC haters on here, I remember that one of the main reasons Cuban hired him was the metrics that showed he was better at making his teams and his players better than any other coach in the NBA. He's pretty good at putting players in a position to succeed. And so is Luka.

Its a shame Cauley-Stein has only taken 18 threes in his career, but RC can make that work if he has to. He makes it work with Boban. Unless WCS turns out to be a complete bonehead, this will be fine. Based on the article about his tour of Northpark, it sounds like he's a pretty smart guy.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by G-Man

I can't imagine a better scenario. Its basically a free replacement for a starter, with another guy who's been playing 22 minutes a night. WCS was a high lottery pick from Kentucky. He probably never played on a losing team until he got to the NBA, and a lot of guys have a hard time adjusting to losing every night. Imagine if, every day, when you finished your job, there was a scoreboard, and most nights it told you you had failed. I can easily imagine WCS mentally checking out...lots of others have done the same.

So he has the physical potential. He'll get minutes. And unlike the multitude of RC haters on here, I remember that one of the main reasons Cuban hired him was the metrics that showed he was better at making his teams and his players better than any other coach in the NBA. He's pretty good at putting players in a position to succeed. And so is Luka.

Its a shame Cauley-Stein has only taken 18 threes in his career, but RC can make that work if he has to. He makes it work with Boban. Unless WCS turns out to be a complete bonehead, this will be fine. Based on the article about his tour of Northpark, it sounds like he's a pretty smart guy.

The system tells me I have to spread rep, which means you've been posting a lot more these days (always a pleasure!)

Nice to see that our views on this trade are aligned.

[G-Man]

When you post, UD, I don't try to add rep, I just say quietly to myself, "that's my dawg."

[turin]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I hope I'm wrong but I get the Noel, McGee vibe again. He has an uphill battle because Rick doesn't suffer fools or slackers and he doesn't spread the floor. I hope if he is here that Rick gives a fair shot to succeed and help us.

Rick says he doesn't deal in the player aquisitions etc, but I wonder how involved he really is and how Donnie and Marc present it to him before pulling the trigger. Like If he said, no I'd rather not deal with someone would they completely nix the idea?

I'm more concerned about the way RC treats him. Sometimes player behavior is a REACTION. See Noel. Not saying players are not without blame, and RC is not without a history of issues w/ players. Temperamental players shouldn't be jettisoned just because the coach lacks the patience or skillset to manage them imo. That's a great way to get zero out of somebody.


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[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by OldWhiteGuy

Robert Covington.

Rumor is that the Mavs have already made at least one offer that was turned down.

Wouldn't surprise me if Donnie is trying to get a 3rd team involved.
Our defense would be very solid if we picked up Covington.

Another player I'd love to see in a Mavs uniform is Josh Richardson. He'd be a great 3-D fit next to Luka. Philly needs 3pt shooting so maybe we could work something out involving Curry.

[particleman]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I hope I'm wrong but I get the Noel, McGee vibe again. He has an uphill battle because Rick doesn't suffer fools or slackers...

I don't get the "fool" and "slacker" labels. What am I missing? I understand he's struggled with his consistency a little, but maybe that's because he's been stuck on shitty teams his entire career?

On paper, he's a guy who steadily improved despite being on one of the league's most dysfunctional franchises, then took less money to play for a contender this season so he could prove himself. And it isn't like he has "dumb play" mix tape videos all over YouTube like some guys (https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ale+mcgee+dumb).


I've been reading WCS articles and watching interviews for a while today and he seems like a really nice, laid-back, smart, thoughtful guy.

Why all the hate?

[BPo001]

Tim MacMahon: Willie Cauley-Stein will meet the Mavs in OKC tomorrow night. He will not have any practice time with the team before Monday’s game vs. Thunder, and Rick Carlisle isn’t sure Cauley-Stein will be active for that game. – via Twitter espn_macmahon

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by turin

I'm more concerned about the way RC treats him. Sometimes player behavior is a REACTION. See Noel. Not saying players are not without blame, and RC is not without a history of issues w/ players. Temperamental players shouldn't be jettisoned just because the coach lacks the patience or skillset to manage them imo. That's a great way to get zero out of somebody.


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Criticizing Rick for Noel is complete bullshit. He played 20-30 minutes a night the season they traded for him, and then offered him a big take it or leave it contract. After he turned it down, it was known between the Mavs, Noel, and the agent that his next season was going to be a lame duck season, and he wasn’t coming back. Any playing time was just for showcase purposes, and doing right by Noel and his agent. It’s like you are willfully ignoring the history, just to take another shot at Carlisle.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by turin

I'm more concerned about the way RC treats him. Sometimes player behavior is a REACTION. See Noel. Not saying players are not without blame, and RC is not without a history of issues w/ players. Temperamental players shouldn't be jettisoned just because the coach lacks the patience or skillset to manage them imo. That's a great way to get zero out of somebody.

Act like a bitch, get treated like a bitch... Do you want to root for a bitch? I don't.

[EricaLubarsky]

Powell 9pts, 6 reb (13-8 per 36)
WCS 8pts, 6 reb (12-10 per 36)

[turin]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Criticizing Rick for Noel is complete bullshit. He played 20-30 minutes a night the season they traded for him, and then offered him a big take it or leave it contract. After he turned it down, it was known between the Mavs, Noel, and the agent that his next season was going to be a lame duck season, and he wasn’t coming back. Any playing time was just for showcase purposes, and doing right by Noel and his agent. It’s like you are willfully ignoring the history, just to take another shot at Carlisle.

Was in a hurry. Noel was a bad example. My point was that there are two personalities involved in a relationship. These are professional relationships, so I assume personnel skills by those in positions of authority, and RC's history does bring up questions. I don't know him personally, and have zero inside details, so I am obviously speculating. For example, as much as I detest Rondo, I wonder why things melted down as bad as they did in that situation. Did it really have to get that bad?

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[Underdog]

Originally Posted by turin

Was in a hurry. Noel was a bad example. My point was that there are two personalities involved in a relationship. These are professional relationships, so I assume personnel skills by those in positions of authority, and RC's history does bring up questions. I don't know him personally, and have zero inside details, so I am obviously speculating. For example, as much as I detest Rondo, I wonder why things melted down as bad as they did in that situation. Did it really have to get that bad?

Because Rondo is a bitch.... That's why the players voted not to give him the playoff bonus -- it wasn't just Rick.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by turin

Was in a hurry. Noel was a bad example. My point was that there are two personalities involved in a relationship. These are professional relationships, so I assume personnel skills by those in positions of authority, and RC's history does bring up questions. I don't know him personally, and have zero inside details, so I am obviously speculating. For example, as much as I detest Rondo, I wonder why things melted down as bad as they did in that situation. Did it really have to get that bad?

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Fair enough. I just can’t think of the example of a player that I blame Carlisle for. Rondo was known for his shitty personality. He clashed with Dirk, refused to run plays, and just flat out quit playing in games. Quality dudes like Kidd were able to work out their differences with him. There have been a few that have come through here that have complained like DSJ, Larkin, and Collison, but consider the source with these guys.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by particleman

I don't get the "fool" and "slacker" labels. What am I missing? I understand he's struggled with his consistency a little, but maybe that's because he's been stuck on shitty teams his entire career?

On paper, he's a guy who steadily improved despite being on one of the league's most dysfunctional franchises, then took less money to play for a contender this season so he could prove himself. And it isn't like he has "dumb play" mix tape videos all over YouTube like some guys (https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ale+mcgee+dumb).


I've been reading WCS articles and watching interviews for a while today and he seems like a really nice, laid-back, smart, thoughtful guy.

Why all the hate?

Yeah I was surprised to see people portraying him as a knucklehead

He's never caused any problems

He might not have fulfilled his promise as a lottery pick but that doesn't make him a knucklehead

[turin]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Fair enough. I just can’t think of the example of a player that I blame Carlisle for. Rondo was known for his shitty personality. He clashed with Dirk, refused to run plays, and just flat out quit playing in games. Quality dudes like Kidd were able to work out their differences with him. There have been a few that have come through here that have complained like DSJ, Larkin, and Collison, but consider the source with these guys.

Point taken

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[MFFL]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Yeah I was surprised to see people portraying him as a knucklehead

He's never caused any problems

He might not have fulfilled his promise as a lottery pick but that doesn't make him a knucklehead

I see him with the soul of an artist playing a game with warriors. He's good at basketball but its probably not his passion

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by particleman

I don't get the "fool" and "slacker" labels. What am I missing? I understand he's struggled with his consistency a little, but maybe that's because he's been stuck on shitty teams his entire career?

On paper, he's a guy who steadily improved despite being on one of the league's most dysfunctional franchises, then took less money to play for a contender this season so he could prove himself. And it isn't like he has "dumb play" mix tape videos all over YouTube like some guys (https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ale+mcgee+dumb).


I've been reading WCS articles and watching interviews for a while today and he seems like a really nice, laid-back, smart, thoughtful guy.

Why all the hate?

Just because I'm not spilling over with love for him doesn't mean I have all the hate. If you quote the whole post I said I hope I'm wrong and I hope he is successful. Until I see him as a Mav and get a fair shot I reserve meaningful judgement. I feel like it's easy to get carried away with a trade like many were with Noel but who knows if it will work. Again, Hopefully it does.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by particleman

I don't get the "fool" and "slacker" labels. What am I missing? I understand he's struggled with his consistency a little, but maybe that's because he's been stuck on shitty teams his entire career?

On paper, he's a guy who steadily improved despite being on one of the league's most dysfunctional franchises, then took less money to play for a contender this season so he could prove himself. And it isn't like he has "dumb play" mix tape videos all over YouTube like some guys (https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ale+mcgee+dumb).


I've been reading WCS articles and watching interviews for a while today and he seems like a really nice, laid-back, smart, thoughtful guy.

Why all the hate?

It's the face tattoos... They've become more popular in recent years, but in the past only gang bangers and convicts sported them. I remember the same perception to ANY tattoos back in the 90s -- only sailors, bikers, and thugs had them until GenX popularized them to the point of being "business casual".

WCS has no record of being a malcontent or a knucklehead, he's just underachieved for a guy with such amazing physical talents. And he has face tattoos.

All that matters is what he can do on the floor. If he hustles, he'll win Rick's trust. If he doesn't, he won't.

[Dallas41]

I sure hope the guy plays because I cant take our small ball lineups

I've always hated them

I'm not a believer that it's the best way to win games.

This team has always played it's best basketball this year when they have a solid big lineup on the floor

Asking DFS to be your best rebounder when you go small is always going to get you beat in the end

Got to play WCS up front with KP and DFS as much as possible imo.....

Once they start throwing KP or Kleber out there as the only big you can pretty much stick a fork in them because it's going to look good for a minute but at the end of day your still taking that L

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I sure hope the guy plays because I cant take our small ball lineups

I've always hated them

I'm not a believer that it's the best way to win games.

This team has always played it's best basketball this year when they have a solid big lineup on the floor

specially these terrible three guard lineups in 10-11....horrible!

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Because Rondo is a bitch.... That's why the players voted not to give him the playoff bonus -- it wasn't just Rick.

Ricks Pacers team was an entire nucklehead roster but they all played within the system, so it worked

Same with Stevenson.

Rondo tried some power bullshit, waiving up Rick and thats a no-go. Also the team choosing to cut off Rondos playoff revenue says everything.

Noel screwed with the defensive concept to gamble for his steals and thats also a no go. Add the other stupid stuff and you cant blame Rick

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Ricks Pacers team was an entire nucklehead roster but they all played within the system, so it worked

Same with Stevenson.

Rondo tried some power bullshit, waiving up Rick and thats a no-go. Also the team choosing to cut off Rondos playoff revenue says everything.

Noel screwed with the defensive concept to gamble for his steals and thats also a no go. Add the other stupid stuff and you cant blame Rick

Excellent points.

[EricaLubarsky]

Thing that tickles me:

We traded out 2019 second-rounder (#37) for Roby, #50-ish in 2020 (from Utah), and Portland's 2021 second-rounder

Which now means we traded only the #37 last year for Willie Cauley-Stein (who was drafted #6 in the first round in 2015) and Portland's 2021 second-rounder

It's not swinging for the fences, but it's very much a slick move where we keep getting good deals.

[sefant77]

Before i cheer about this im going to wait to see how Gafford develops. Because he was a guy that made sense to take at #37...

[EricaLubarsky]

on/off stats

Marjanovic
Offense
on - 128.7 pts scored per 100 possessions
off - 116.2 pts scored per 100 possessions
+12.5pts per 100 possessions (huge offensive improvement)

Defense
on - 112.9pts allowed per 100 possessions
off - 110.8pts allowed per 100 possessions
+2.1 pts allowed (worse defensively by a bit)

+10.4 pts net (defensive effect and offensive effect per 100possessions)
Net positive

Powell
Offense
on - 118.4 pts scored per 100 possessions
off - 116.4 pts scored per 100 possessions
+2.0pts per 100 (improves offense a little)

Defense
on - 109.7pts allowed per 100 possessions
off - 112.2pts allowed per 100 possessions
-2.4pts per 100 (improves defense a little)

-4.4 pts net (defensive effect and offensive effect per 100possessions)
Net positive/

Porzingis
Offense
on - 115.7 pts scored per 100 possessions
off - 119.2 pts scored per 100 possessions
-3.5pts per 100 (hurts offense some)

Defense
on - 109.7pts allowed per 100 possessions
off - 112.3pts allowed per 100 possessions
-2.6pts per 100 (improves defense)

-0.9 pts net (defensive effect and offensive effect per 100possessions)
Net negative

Kleber
Offense
on - 114.5 pts scored per 100 possessions
off - 120.2 pts scored per 100 possessions
-5.7pts per 100 (hurts offense a lot)

Defense
on - 109.3pts allowed per 100 possessions
off - 112.6pts allowed per 100 possessions
-3.3pts per 100 (improves defense a lot)

-2.4pts net (defensive effect and offensive effect per 100possessions)
Net negative

Willie Cauley-Stein
Offense
on - 103.3 pts scored per 100 possessions
off - 106.4 pts scored per 100 possessions
-3.1pts per 100 (hurts the offense)

Defense
on - 110.4 pts allowed per 100 possessions
off - 114.1 pts allowed per 100 possessions
-3.7pts per 100 (improves defense a lot)

+0.6pts net (defensive effect and offensive effect per 100possessions)
net positive

[sefant77]

on/off is misleading....Boban simply cant handle 20min or more. Or play stretches of 8min or more in a row.

[EricaLubarsky]

Rebound rating
Marjanovic 47.4
Luka 27.4
Porzingis 27.2
WCS 27.1
Powell 20.2
Kleber 20.1

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Thing that tickles me:

We traded out 2019 second-rounder (#37) for Roby, #50-ish in 2020 (from Utah), and Portland's 2021 second-rounder

Which now means we traded only the #37 last year for Willie Cauley-Stein (who was drafted #6 in the first round in 2015) and Portland's 2021 second-rounder

It's not swinging for the fences, but it's very much a slick move where we keep getting good deals.

Which should strengthen the moves via trade vs powder 21.. but somehow doesnt work that way

[saclare]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Thing that tickles me:

We traded out 2019 second-rounder (#37) for Roby, #50-ish in 2020 (from Utah), and Portland's 2021 second-rounder

Which now means we traded only the #37 last year for Willie Cauley-Stein (who was drafted #6 in the first round in 2015) and Portland's 2021 second-rounder

It's not swinging for the fences, but it's very much a slick move where we keep getting good deals.

Originally Posted by sefant77

Before i cheer about this im going to wait to see how Gafford develops. Because he was a guy that made sense to take at #37...

Damn, I was gonna point out that Gafford could have been the answer to DP going down all along! Watching Gafford at Arkansas only made me think of his ideal fit within Rick's system.

[BPo001]

Ant word if he plays tonight? I’d start a GDT, but I think I’m 0-2 for the season. Pretty sure I read WCS wasn’t going to have time to practice before today’s game. I’d like to think he will be in uniform even if it’s just for garbage time minutes while he learns the rotations.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by saclare

Damn, I was gonna point out that Gafford could have been the answer to DP going down all along! Watching Gafford at Arkansas only made me think of his ideal fit within Rick's system.

Yes, there were a bunch of us Gafford fans around here. I do think sometimes teams can wind up overscouting or just over think things. To me, the second round is tailor made to get cheap young bigs that can jump out of the gym but are maybe a year or two away, ala Gafford, Mitchell Robinson, etc. Seems like every draft sees one or two fall.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Ant word if he plays tonight? I’d start a GDT, but I think I’m 0-2 for the season. Pretty sure I read WCS wasn’t going to have time to practice before today’s game. I’d like to think he will be in uniform even if it’s just for garbage time minutes while he learns the rotations.

RC said he doesn't know if he will play. I doubt it though.

[EricaLubarsky]

Easily the Warriors' best defensive and rebounding piece. His offense is really suspect, but if he can set solid picks and roll like Powell, he will be rewarded here and could easily see his offense improve vs. being on the lowly Warriors.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Yes, there were a bunch of us Gafford fans around here. I do think sometimes teams can wind up overscouting or just over think things. To me, the second round is tailor made to get cheap young bigs that can jump out of the gym but are maybe a year or two away, ala Gafford, Mitchell Robinson, etc. Seems like every draft sees one or two fall.

Truth. I selfishly wanted him back for one more year at Arkansas. With Musselman and the fire power around him, easily a deep tourney team. Alas, Arkansas has no big or inside presence, but still playing well enough they might sneak into the tourney.

[EricaLubarsky]

Brad Townsend
✔
@townbrad
. @mcuban calls Cauley-Stein acquisition “a steal-and-a-half. We got really lucky. And Dwight comes back, we’ll be even better at that position.”


Now let’s see him play

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Brad Townsend
✔
@townbrad
. @mcuban calls Cauley-Stein acquisition “a steal-and-a-half. We got really lucky. And Dwight comes back, we’ll be even better at that position.”


Now let’s see him play

I’m excited to see him play. I was hoping we would take a stab at him in the off-season. His game seems to fit the mold of what we need from the position, and hopefully he is ready to ball on a team in the playoff race.

[Underdog]

Willie Cauley-Stein excited for new opportunity to work with Rick Carlisle and Luka Doncic in Dallas
https://www.dallassportsfanatic.com/...cic-in-dallas/

He is excited for the opportunity to work with a coach like Rick Carlisle who is often lauded for getting the most out of players who other teams haven’t quite been able to crack.

“I think that’s why I’m here… He challenges you every day to get better and I like that. I like the work. I like the challenge of trying to come in and fit right away. Your IQ gets to come out and it has just been a fun time.”

[rimrocker]

Is it just me or is this team beginning to resemble a mix of our teams that went to championships?

Luka - Kidd (younger version)
DFS - Marion (lesser version)
KP - Dirk (Less shooter but better defender)
THJ - Fin
Seth - JET
Brunson - Barea (young version)
WCS - TC (less leadership and rebounding but similar size, athleticism and skillsets)
Wright - Stevenson (less shooter, better ball handler and driver)

I’m not saying it is an exact replica by any means, and will yield the same results, but I see some similarities.

[dirt_dobber]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Is it just me or is this team beginning to resemble a mix of our teams that went to championships?

Luka - Kidd (younger version)
DFS - Marion (lesser version)
KP - Dirk (Less shooter but better defender)
THJ - Fin
Seth - JET
Brunson - Barea (young version)
WCS - TC (less leadership and rebounding but similar size, athleticism and skillsets)
Wright - Stevenson (less shooter, better ball handler and driver)

I’m not saying it is an exact replica by any means, and will yield the same results, but I see some similarities.

FANTASTIC!!!!!