PGT: 8 on 5, OKC + Refs win.

[walter]

Yep, time to rest Dirk. This should be the rotation for the next few games:

Haywood/Mahinmi
Odom/Wright
Marion
Carter/Terry
Beaubois/West

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'll have to give some more thought to this. You may be right, that there are some parallels between the two (at least in the examples of usage that you are considering). On the whole, though, I think it is probably more complex.

But, the primary point remains: You got it wrong the first time. And as part of an attack on another poster about "learn the English language" or somesuch. To tout your knowledge, now that you have researched it, is to entirely beg the question. I think the lesson for you should be that you should refrain from exhorting other members to "learn the English language" when you yourself have demonstrated tonight that you, too, have a lot to learn.

See...you keep saying that. "Researched it." I didn't "research" it. I already KNEW it. I provided a link simply to show you.

It's like if I said The Battle of Hastings was in 1066, and you said "no, you're wrong, it was 1099". I would proceed to provide you a link confirming that it was in fact in 1066.

That doesn't mean I didn't know it already. You were the one saying that I was using quotations incorrectly, when in fact I wasn't (at least accordingly to non-US countries). Accordingly, I provided a link to confirm my correctness.

My only mistake was at first accidentally providing a link on parenthesis rather than quotations.

My actual grammar was NOT incorrect.

What a fruitless argument this is.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by CadBane

See...you keep saying that. "Researched it." I didn't "research" it. I already KNEW it. I provided a link simply to show you.

It's like if I said The Battle of Hastings was in 1066, and you said "no, you're wrong, it was 1099". I would proceed to provide you a link confirming that it was in fact in 1066.

That doesn't mean I didn't know it already. You were the one saying that I was using quotations incorrectly, when in fact I wasn't (at least accordingly to non-US countries). Accordingly, I provided a link to confirm my correctness.

My only mistake was at first accidentally providing a link on parenthesis rather than quotations.

My actual grammar was NOT incorrect.

What a fruitless argument this is.

Listen, dipshit. You put the period outside the quotes, which means you used it wrong. Own it, man. It's not that hard.

You also made some clown-ass error in a post that tried to correct to someone else on an error. Own it, man!

If you wouldn't have been so "use it like this or you are an idiot," no one would have called you on it. But when you went down that path, you got called on it by someone pointing out how your dumb ass is at least as much idiotic.

I highly doubt that this will have any effect on you.

[rabbitproof]

Oh man, the Internet is awesome.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Listen, dipshit. You put the period outside the quotes, which means you used it wrong. Own it, man. It's not that hard.

You also made some clown-ass error in a post that tried to correct to someone else on an error. Own it, man!

If you wouldn't have been so "use it like this or you are an idiot," no one would have called you on it. But when you went down that path, you got called on it by someone pointing out how your dumb ass is at least as much idiotic.

I highly doubt that this will have any effect on you.

Putting the period outside the quotes ISN'T wrong, dipshit (Mary, take note that I'm only using the same word he did, as apparently it's okay).

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Putting the period outside the quotes ISN'T wrong, dipshit (Mary, take note that I'm only using the same word he did, as apparently it's okay).

Provide me an example.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Provide me an example.

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/gramm.../quotation.htm

http://grammartips.homestead.com/inside.html

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by CadBane

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/gramm.../quotation.htm

http://grammartips.homestead.com/inside.html

Geez..this is your proof of the elusive thing you wanted to prove?

What a joke.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Geez..this is your proof of the elusive thing you wanted to prove?

What a joke.

Can you read?

I wasn't born in America, by the way. Outside of America, the period goes outside of the quotes.

But no sense in arguing with Gary Busey.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Can you read?

I wasn't born in America, by the way. Outside of America, the period goes outside of the quotes.

But no sense in arguing with Gary Busey.

Well, I'm assuming that you are pretty much a normal human being, no matter where you were born.

It all works out, I'm sure you will agree.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Well, I'm assuming that you are pretty much a normal human being, no matter where you were born.

It all works out, I'm sure you will agree.

Ladies and Gents,

Chum Busey.

[fluid.forty.one]

The only thing that makes dallas-mavs.com worse than when the Mavs lose, is when Dirk plays horribly in a Mavs loss.

I actually agree with LSFM. Rest Dirk for 2+ weeks, bring Holger over and give him a mini-training camp. He's a man of routine and he can't rush this shit.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

The only thing that makes dallas-mavs.com worse than when the Mavs lose, is when Dirk plays horribly in a Mavs loss.

I actually agree with LSFM. Rest Dirk for 2+ weeks, bring Holger over and give him a mini-training camp. He's a man of routine and he can't rush this shit.

How dare you interrupt the great debate going on!

Nearly impossible to win when the only two guys making shots are Terry and Wright.

[Budapest Maverick]

I hate to sound that optimistic, but i honestly don't mind this loss that much. Also hate when somebody uses the "x y played bad, and we were still in the game" argument, but this time, it's legit. Dirk was awful, no way we lose this game in the playoffs. Just no way. Heck, we could have won if Haywood plays, considering how many shot attempts OKC had in the paint.

Heck, we maybe win this game with Odom playing. Roddy had a bad shooting night, and had a tough matchup on defense, still, he wasn't terribly bad imo. I like the way we can play Durant, OKC has to fear us if we meet again in the playoffs, they're a very good matchup for us. I would really-really want to avoid the Clippers though. They're a matchup nightmare for us. On to the next one, keep getting better Dirk!

[deamon]

1000 fouls by Ibaka, an no whistle.
Clear steal on Durant, yup this is definitely a foul.
Missed too many shots, we should make, but also our defense near 3pt line is still horrible.
Kidd has another break, and Dirk needs too.

[Bayliss]

Dirk is still working on getting confidence to make moves that he usually makes. I would think that's a normal process for just about anyone. Dirk pretty much had the a rough go when he came back from the knee injury last year. It took him about 5, 6 games before he was really cranking it out like we're used to seeing. I think it's going to be along those lines this year.

Dirk was 10-17 for 32 points against Detroit in his second game back. He couldn't score 32 points right now in an open gym. 32 points used to be a game or a game and a half. Now it is at least 3 games, possibly 4.

He is in far worse shape this year than he was last year after coming back.

[tgfan]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

His jumpers have no lift? His biggest problem is he doesn't even bother getting inside 15 feet. He rarely posts up. When he does it is to shoot another jumper and not turn towards the paint.

And he plays hot potato with the ball more than any member of the team.

^^^ This.

[tgfan]

Look, there's a reason why Vince, Dirk, and Roddy shot poorly, and it's that OKC contests every shot, and are probably the best team in the league at closing out on shooters. So, what do we do? We shoot a bunch of outside jump shots. So, to some extent, I blame this on coaching. We are not going to beat OKC shooting long jump shots on most possessions.

Against OKC, Dirk is going to have to fight it out with defenders to get to 15 feet or less from the goal, he is going to have to bust a move of some sort towards the goal, not just turn around and flail up an impossible shot that might work against the Suns. This will accomplish two goals. One, eventually the refs will have to call some fouls on defenders and, two, he will draw the double team, which should open up somebody else for a better look at the goal.

Vince was drawing fouls on drives early in the game and should have kept it up.

[nowhereman]

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showth...33#post1234033

[Ninkobei]

Can't blame the refs guys. Stop being such whiners. The Thunder are a damn good team, and our best player can't hit the broad side of a planet with 3 times the mass of jupiter.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

Can't blame the refs guys. Stop being such whiners. The Thunder are a damn good team, and our best player can't hit the broad side of a planet with 3 times the mass of jupiter.

You must have not watched the game. Blaming losses on refs in general is weak but this game had a lot of bad calls. Several of them stifled our momentum. It had a couple of unrecoverable KEY blown calls very late.

[sinsin]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Dirk is still working on getting confidence to make moves that he usually makes. I would think that's a normal process for just about anyone. Dirk pretty much had the a rough go when he came back from the knee injury last year. It took him about 5, 6 games before he was really cranking it out like we're used to seeing. I think it's going to be along those lines this year.

The big thing is he said the swelling is pretty much gone. That's a definite hurdle you want to see cleared. He's just got to work on getting his repertoire back and get his flow back. I'm not worried.

"oh noes! he played not good basketball at the beginning because he was out of shape! he sat out SEVEN games and now had 3 bad shooting games (rebounding was fine btw)! dirk is done!!!!!!!"

some people...or as far as the threads tone suggests many people are being pretty hysterical...
dirk will get it done soon enough, like bryan i am not worried at all.
sure, it's painful to watch but it is far more painful to read all those comments of doom and damnation

[Underdog]

1/2 a Dirk, no Kidd, no Haywood, no Odom, no love from the refs - and we were still in it until the last minute...

OKC should be ashamed that it was even that close.

[mavsfan1000]

I can't believe people are blaming Roddy for this loss. He got us back in the game in the 4th with his steals and helps increase our tempo which tends to get bogged down when Kidd runs the show. I like the uptempo Roddy sets up for us that allows us some open shots for Terry.

[Robillion]

This is a message board, not a thesis paper. It's also a place where I come to read about basketball... not grammar. So please stop.

Anyways. Dirk is not "injured". He may be still be recovering though. I would say more so from his conditioning and the fact that he did not play much basketball leading into the season, than his knee. He did not prepare well enough. He won't be himself consistently until his body and mind is ready. I'm not sure if sitting him during the games is the best call (for him.. maybe for the team), but he definitely needs to keep having a hardcore training camp type conditioning regiment. He also needs to get his head in the game and confidence back up. Realize that he is the star. It just sounds like a lot of people are using an injury as a scapegoat when it's probably more about him not being prepared to play a 66 game season of professional basketball.

[Robillion]

Originally Posted by Underdog

1/2 a Dirk, no Kidd, no Haywood, no Odom, no love from the refs - and we were still in it until the last minute...

OKC should be ashamed that it was even that close.

I credit how close this game was towards the end completely to Terry and a decent string of great defensive stops in the 4th quarter (including a few by Roddy).

It's still hard to ignore that if the shot was even close to averages for Roddy and Vince then we probably would have won the game. We may not be getting calls, but they should still be attacking the basket every chance they get. They have the ability too. I just don't really understand why that mindset changes so much between games. In Roddy's case it seems like when he thinks about being a point guard, he is a terrible one, but when he plays his aggressive, confident game it can come easy because people open up.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I can't believe people are blaming Roddy for this loss. He got us back in the game in the 4th with his steals and helps increase our tempo which tends to get bogged down when Kidd runs the show. I like the uptempo Roddy sets up for us that allows us some open shots for Terry.

I think roddy has been pretty good, not great but pretty good. He is still way too slow on decisions IMO. We also haven't been getting any fast breaks, that because he's much more of a dribbler than a passer.

And again if he does another one of those p**** over the head layup attempts I think I'm going to explode. He avoids contact like the plague.

[Kante]

Just watched, wow at these refs, just pathetic all over the game. Even Carlisle told the FT Difference in the 3rd quarter, wish his ejection would have been about more moaning against the "refs". No chance to win from the beginning...

Dirk just sucks right now, eassy at it is!

Roddy was godawful too!

[redzwestisbest]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I can't believe people are blaming Roddy for this loss. He got us back in the game in the 4th with his steals and helps increase our tempo which tends to get bogged down when Kidd runs the show. I like the uptempo Roddy sets up for us that allows us some open shots for Terry.

I agree with that Roddy did not lose this game for the Mavs. In fact, I thought he was a positive influence in the game in the first half. He got alot good looks for other players. In the 2nd half, RC didn't play Delonte West very little (was he injured or what?) and stuck with a young PG who struggled a little bit. Maybe it was for development purposes, maybe it was to see how he would hold playing 30 mpg consistently. I don't know but it didn't make much sense if you want to win the game.

I think Delonte West should have played a bigger role especially in games like this. It's pretty sad that he only played 15 minutes. I think come playoff time he'll be playing a lot more, but it is just stupid not to play him more minutes (short of injury) against guys like Russell Westbrook. I know Delonte was frustrated from not getting calls, but let him get a tech out there. He plays fantastic when he is hot-headed. This is another game where the box score doesn't show well Delonte played out there since he didn't get 2 calls on shooting and then another on a drive that resulted on a turnover. Delonte guarded James Harden for a few minutes and Russell Westbrook for the only stretch of the game where Westbrook struggled.

It is also sad that we can not criticize Dirk for how poorly he has played recently on these message boards without being bashed. Dirk's game revolves around him making jump shots. If he isn't hitting them, his skillset isn't really above average anywhere else. He missed many shots that were wide open. I know some of the calls didn't go his way, but he still missed some easy jumpers he usually makes and that dictates everything else he does.

[Kidd Karma]

I think we just have to ride Dirk out, maybe a night here or there, a 2nd of back to backs middle of a 4 in 5 stretch. As a shooter, he just needs to keep shooting it, it'll come around. At some point, he should mix in a drive to the cup. I think having his personal coach will help him a bit, but in the NBA schedule, it'll be difficult to get in full workouts. Right now he's more of a consultant with Dirk, then coach.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Kante

Just watched, wow at these refs, just pathetic all over the game. Even Carlisle told the FT Difference in the 3rd quarter, wish his ejection would have been about more moaning against the "refs". No chance to win from the beginning...

Dirk just sucks right now, eassy at it is!

Roddy was godawful too!

Set the tone in the first, Westbrook gets the And 1, Carter gets the foul, replays show VC did not even touch him. go the other way, Roddy get body checked, nothing, 2nd half Delonte gets body checked to the floor, nothing. Thing is, on these tough fouls, the guys on the floor need to get up and get in the face of the offender, force the refs to blow their whistle. Then Yi needs to body block Westbrook coming down the lane.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Dirk was 10-17 for 32 points against Detroit in his second game back. He couldn't score 32 points right now in an open gym. 32 points used to be a game or a game and a half. Now it is at least 3 games, possibly 4.

He is in far worse shape this year than he was last year after coming back.

How about the other games? Like I said, he wasn't that great. The problem is the fact he's not getting to the line. If he was doing that, then the scoring numbers would go up quite a bit. That leads me to believe that he doesn't have the confidence to push the knee or make his array of moves. He's pretty predictable now in what he wants to do. He's not swinging around a lot with his pivot foot and pushing forward. There are just a lot of spot ups or fake and shoot.

He's a finely tuned machine. He's that to the point where if things are clicking, the whole thing is going to be messed up. Confidence is going to take time. It's going to take work. We said it last year, the guy is used to ankle injuries, so those are walks in the park for him. Last year was the first year he had to deal with a knee. I know for a fact that he wasn't confident in the knee as he came back from the 9-game layoff. He came back because he knew the team couldn't afford to have him sitting out anymore.

This year is just a tough year for him, but he's going to be fine.

[Five-ofan]

Am i the only one that noticed on the god awful no call on dirk/ibaka play that when ibaka got the ball he both blatantly traveled and stepped two feet out of bounds while still holding the ball(and if you watch the way he throws the pass, he knew it) i could maybe live with the no call but thats inexcusable to miss as a ref

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Am i the only one that noticed on the god awful no call on dirk/ibaka play that when ibaka got the ball he both blatantly traveled and stepped two feet out of bounds while still holding the ball(and if you watch the way he throws the pass, he knew it) i could maybe live with the no call but thats inexcusable to miss as a ref

That was probably the worst no call of the night, I have no idea how the refs could've missed that one. A part of me is starting to feel like they didn't miss it but they just let it slide...anyway that's a different story.

[b_o_r]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

How about the other games? Like I said, he wasn't that great. The problem is the fact he's not getting to the line. If he was doing that, then the scoring numbers would go up quite a bit. That leads me to believe that he doesn't have the confidence to push the knee or make his array of moves. He's pretty predictable now in what he wants to do. He's not swinging around a lot with his pivot foot and pushing forward. There are just a lot of spot ups or fake and shoot.

He is missing wide open jump shots. That is the most alarming concern. I can take him missing his patent one-legger or anything that requires him to drive. However, open jumpers is his version of a dunk.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

How about the other games? Like I said, he wasn't that great. The problem is the fact he's not getting to the line. If he was doing that, then the scoring numbers would go up quite a bit. That leads me to believe that he doesn't have the confidence to push the knee or make his array of moves. He's pretty predictable now in what he wants to do. He's not swinging around a lot with his pivot foot and pushing forward. There are just a lot of spot ups or fake and shoot.

He's a finely tuned machine. He's that to the point where if things are clicking, the whole thing is going to be messed up. Confidence is going to take time. It's going to take work. We said it last year, the guy is used to ankle injuries, so those are walks in the park for him. Last year was the first year he had to deal with a knee. I know for a fact that he wasn't confident in the knee as he came back from the 9-game layoff. He came back because he knew the team couldn't afford to have him sitting out anymore.

This year is just a tough year for him, but he's going to be fine.

hopefully....your estimate of when that will be?

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by redzwestisbest

I agree with that Roddy did not lose this game for the Mavs. In fact, I thought he was a positive influence in the game in the first half. He got alot good looks for other players. In the 2nd half, RC didn't play Delonte West very little (was he injured or what?) and stuck with a young PG who struggled a little bit. Maybe it was for development purposes, maybe it was to see how he would hold playing 30 mpg consistently. I don't know but it didn't make much sense if you want to win the game.

I think Delonte West should have played a bigger role especially in games like this. It's pretty sad that he only played 15 minutes. I think come playoff time he'll be playing a lot more, but it is just stupid not to play him more minutes (short of injury) against guys like Russell Westbrook. I know Delonte was frustrated from not getting calls, but let him get a tech out there. He plays fantastic when he is hot-headed. This is another game where the box score doesn't show well Delonte played out there since he didn't get 2 calls on shooting and then another on a drive that resulted on a turnover. Delonte guarded James Harden for a few minutes and Russell Westbrook for the only stretch of the game where Westbrook struggled.

It is also sad that we can not criticize Dirk for how poorly he has played recently on these message boards without being bashed. Dirk's game revolves around him making jump shots. If he isn't hitting them, his skillset isn't really above average anywhere else. He missed many shots that were wide open. I know some of the calls didn't go his way, but he still missed some easy jumpers he usually makes and that dictates everything else he does.

I'm going to assume that since you're simply a West fan, you haven't watched the Mavs much. Because your last paragraph is the antithesis of anything even remotely resembling the truth.

You talk about him like he's Ray Allen. Absolutely clueless.

Yeah, getting to the FT line more than any big not named D12, commanding constant double teams, being arguably the most clutch player in the game, having the second highest PPP in the post, being a good defensive rebounder, defender, passer, and all-around floor leader.

Yeah...if Dirk isn't making jump shots, his skill-set is the same as Radmonovich.

Freaking clueless.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Am i the only one that noticed on the god awful no call on dirk/ibaka play that when ibaka got the ball he both blatantly traveled and stepped two feet out of bounds while still holding the ball(and if you watch the way he throws the pass, he knew it) i could maybe live with the no call but thats inexcusable to miss as a ref

I noticed it too...but you're not allowed to blame the refs. You should overcome every awful call.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by Robillion

This is a message board, not a thesis paper. It's also a place where I come to read about basketball... not grammar. So please stop.

Anyways. Dirk is not "injured". He may be still be recovering though. I would say more so from his conditioning and the fact that he did not play much basketball leading into the season, than his knee. He did not prepare well enough. He won't be himself consistently until his body and mind is ready. I'm not sure if sitting him during the games is the best call (for him.. maybe for the team), but he definitely needs to keep having a hardcore training camp type conditioning regiment. He also needs to get his head in the game and confidence back up. Realize that he is the star. It just sounds like a lot of people are using an injury as a scapegoat when it's probably more about him not being prepared to play a 66 game season of professional basketball.

His knee is most definitely injured. You'd have to be blind to say otherwise. There are times when he's literally limping. Conditioning doesn't have a damn thing to do with it at this point.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by CadBane

His knee is most definitely injured. You'd have to be blind to say otherwise. There are times when he's literally limping. Conditioning doesn't have a damn thing to do with it at this point.

Strange, why is there no report of the injury? Shouldn't we put his knee before the W-L record at this point. I mean someone who's been limping around as bad as this, there has to be something, is brass failing to report something? It just seems ridiculous that he's actually out there now trying to play.