Cowboys vs Arizona - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

FINtastic · 10-20-2002, 09:09 PM

I just hope we don't end up drafting Chris Simms this year. That is my deepest, darkest fear. And I just know Jerry is going to be the sucker who ends up picking him. That's one the reasons why I want Quincy to succeed is so Jerry doesn't "have to" draft a QB.

southern_sweets · 10-20-2002, 09:12 PM

<< Hutch is not the answer either -- I have played as much football in the last 4 years as he has. Don't forget that. >>

YOU ARE THE ANSWER!...let's bring in Rhylan. He's a project, but he's young and hard working. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Sorry, Rhylan...I couldn't resist. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

FilthyFinMavs · 10-20-2002, 09:13 PM

<< The other issue is guys like Vick have serious upside. Carter just isn't in that category no matter who likes him. >>

The same ammount of upside as Ryan Leaf had right? Or what about Tom Brady? My point is you just dont know in this league who will be good and who wont.

Drbio · 10-20-2002, 09:40 PM

<< I just hope we don't end up drafting Chris Simms this year. That is my deepest, darkest fear. And I just know Jerry is going to be the sucker who ends up picking him. That's one the reasons why I want Quincy to succeed is so Jerry doesn't "have to" draft a QB. >>

ARGH! As I read this, I almost spilled my beer. That is one scary thought.

Drbio · 10-20-2002, 09:42 PM

Ryan Leaf was super hyped...you are correct, but Brady is where you go way off course. He was projected as a "smart" player that wouldn't lose games for you. He has become much beter than anyone thought, but he has also turned out to be that smart player a lot of people thought he would be. Noone says Carter is Einstein. But Carter also is the root cause of todays loss.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-20-2002, 09:47 PM

<< Ryan Leaf was super hyped...you are correct, but Brady is where you go way off course. He was projected as a "smart" player that wouldn't lose games for you. He has become much beter than anyone thought, but he has also turned out to be that smart player a lot of people thought he would be. Noone says Carter is Einstein. But Carter also is the root cause of todays loss. >>

I mean of course today was the reason Carter loss. I have no problem admitting that but I just have a problem when people say he will never be any good when the past 5 years we have seen qb flops and some newcomers who we never thought would even start in the NFL. But wasnt Brady liked the 6th round pick or around there? I mean come on no one thought he was gonna be a good qb lol. But honestly can you guys say Carter has made this many bad decisions in a game? After the texans game I think he kept it under control and didnt lose any games for us. I can say that todays game was tha first loss this season he gave us. But no one is judging him for that everyone wants to see how he plays next week and respond after a poor effort. Everyone expecte dhim to play like this sometimes this season just like any young qb would.

#1MavsFan · 10-20-2002, 09:49 PM

<< But Carter also is the root cause of todays loss. >>

Doc would you be still saying that if we had made the fieldgoal? Then quincy would have been one of the reasons we won.

kg_veteran · 10-20-2002, 09:51 PM

Is there anything that Quincy can do really well? I don't see it. Even when he plays his best game, he's nothing more than mediocre. If he tapped all of his potential, he'd be a nice backup someday. That's it.

I realize Hutch probably isn't the answer. But could we start him please? I've had my fill of Quincy. And even though Hutch will probably get killed out there too, at least his interceptions will be pretty passes, and at least he'll occasionally hit a receiver in stride.

Give me Hutch.

Drbio · 10-20-2002, 09:59 PM

<<

<< But Carter also is the root cause of todays loss. >>

Doc would you be still saying that if we had made the fieldgoal? Then quincy would have been one of the reasons we won. >>

Did you watch the game. We could have won that game and everyone with half a brain would be singing the same song....Quincy Sucked ass today. Period. Not only did he suck...he sucked royally...there is not any combination of words that I can think of to describe how he ubersucked today. Good grief.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-20-2002, 10:05 PM

<< Is there anything that Quincy can do really well? I don't see it. Even when he plays his best game, he's nothing more than mediocre. If he tapped all of his potential, he'd be a nice backup someday. That's it.

I realize Hutch probably isn't the answer. But could we start him please? I've had my fill of Quincy. And even though Hutch will probably get killed out there too, at least his interceptions will be pretty passes, and at least he'll occasionally hit a receiver in stride.

Give me Hutch. >>

Cowboys arent playing Hutch because to make you unhappy its because he isnt ready. If the Carter thing comes through they want to trade Hutch and bringing him out there to get hurt is why Aikman and Young arent out there right now. Hutch goes out there and gets hurt is no longer trade bait. So you are basically saying that Quincy will never improve? Im sorry to tell you KG but you cant expect a guy who has played 15 NFL games to be a star you just cant do that. He is a young qb and right now you are looking for signs of being atleast a good qb. Carter has showed signs. Last 2 weeks he hasnt played well though today he showed he can not only throw 4 interceptions but he can throw the deep ball to Bryant and last week bring the Cowboys back from 0 and win a game for them. Today Cowboys couldve won but I dont know Campo is our first priority to get outta here before Quincy.

kg_veteran · 10-20-2002, 10:23 PM

Cowboys arent playing Hutch because to make you unhappy its because he isnt ready. If the Carter thing comes through they want to trade Hutch and bringing him out there to get hurt is why Aikman and Young arent out there right now. Hutch goes out there and gets hurt is no longer trade bait.

I know Hutch isn't ready (something I pointed out). But to suggest that the "Carter thing" could come through is ludicrous. The guy isn't good, and he never will be. Sure, Hutch might get hurt, but no one is going to trade for him until they see what he can do. And after all that Jerry gave for him, you'd think that we could give the guy a shot, right?

Carter's just another second-round bust. Goodrich was one, and no one is sad that he's all but gone. It's time to say goodbye to Quincy.

So you are basically saying that Quincy will never improve?

Not beyond being a nice backup, which he isn't at this point.

Im sorry to tell you KG but you cant expect a guy who has played 15 NFL games to be a star you just cant do that.

I don't expect the guy to be a star. He's never given any indication that he could become one. But I do expect the Cowboys to realize he sucks and move on.

He is a young qb and right now you are looking for signs of being atleast a good qb. Carter has showed signs.

What signs are those? I sure haven't seen them.

Last 2 weeks he hasnt played well though today he showed he can not only throw 4 interceptions but he can throw the deep ball to Bryant and last week bring the Cowboys back from 0 and win a game for them.

He hasn't played well all season. The one deep pass to Bryant was a nice play, but 2 INTs into the endzone is pathetic.

And to give Carter credit for that comeback, you need to also give credit where it's due to 1) luck, and 2) Carter helping to dig the hole in the first place.

Today Cowboys couldve won but I dont know Campo is our first priority to get outta here before Quincy.

I hope both are gone at the end of the season. Unfortunately, probably neither one will be.

Drbio · 10-20-2002, 10:26 PM

OK...I didn't get to do it earlier so here goes....Doc's grades on the game.

Quincy Carter. Carter had perhaps the worst day in Cowboys quarterback history. Early in the game I thought he was going to do ok. That faded instantly. Carter continues to check off his primary targets and misses the defensive reads. Case in point. Several times today, the Cowboys ran play action set ups clearly designed to go to the deep or intermediate route guys. Bryant was open all day long and Carter would dump because he got nervous. He had several plays where he was obviously confused. This is very discouraging to me since he should know the damn offense inside and out at this point in the season.

Carters stats for the day:
13 of 22 for 202 yards, 1 touchdown and four interceptions.

Carters string of 200 yards games needed overtime to survive. Had it not been for Joey Galloways fine move which left two Arizona jocks on the field, Carter wouldn't have even done that. Let's not forget Antonio Bryant's incredible athleticism resulted in at least three catches that most men just would not have made. Carter was lucky on almost all of his completions today, the dumps and one Antonio Bryant missle notwithstanding.

Carter threw four passes into the hands of Arizona defenders that THEY DROPPED!!! Can you imagine an eight interception day? It almost happened. Four interceptions is not acceptable. Carter stunk it up today.

The touchdown pass. Carter hit Antonio Bryant on a 78 yard bomb for the score. Bryant made one hell of a catch on a pretty decent throw. That was Carters only highlight of the day and it wasn't perfect. But it was enjoyable right up to and until they missed the extra point.

The Cowboys should be ashamed of Carters performance today. There is very little positive to his game right now.

Carters grade...F-

Emmitt Smith
Emmitt played well today. The line was facing the #1 rushing defense in the league. Although he didn’t get many gaping holes to run through like he is used to in the days of old, he did run decently today.

Emmits stats:
22 rushes for 82 yards. 3.7 yrds per carry.

A little less than his lifetime average, but decent nonetheless. He doesn’t have the speed he used to, but he is still the best running option on the team today.

Grade: B

Robert Thomas
He made some good blocks today, but still looks like he is afraid to play at this level. He has to get better or Emmitt is going to be brutalized for the rest of the year. He had several blocking mistakes and missed several more.

Grade: D-

Troy Hambrick
Hambrick broke off the longest run given up this year by the Cardinals. He shows just enough flashes to tease us into thinking he can be a solid running back for years to come. Iin my mind, he is pushing Emmitt for the #1 spot performance-wise, but there is no way in hell he unseats Emmitt this year.

Grade: C

Antonio Bryant
Amazing playmaker potential. This guy has the tools to be a star in this league. He made several wonderful catches today. He is one of the lone bright spots for us this year. He reminds me a lot of Michael Irvin. He still is making some bonehead errors (dropped two good passes that hit his hands today), but he shows the potential that Carter lacks.

Grade: A-

The other receivers
Whelan played well today but had little to show for it. I like this guy a lot. Galloway played hard, but didn’t see much thrown his way. Galloway made a nice move in overtime for a first down, but just didn’t get enough touches. The other guys didn’t do much worth discussing. I don't want to penalize the receiving corps for Carters lack of talent.

Grade: C

The offensive line
Believe it or not, they set up excellent pass protection today. Carter’s pockets broke down only a couple of times. In that regard they did a very good job. Playing against the #1 rushing defense in the league showed. The line did not consistently open up holes for the backs. They didn’t play poorly, just not well in terms of opening up the running game. Another damn injury to the line makes this all the more impressive. The line did a fine job today overall. You may disagree, but they did well today.

Grade: C+

Coaching
Ugh. Why not throw the hail mary at the end of the game? There were so many incidents today where I screamed at Campo and Coslet that I lost count. I think Avezzano has been around too long as well. He rode the coattails of several talented special teams guys for a lot foyears. His schemes are just that…schemes. He has no talent that is evident. Coslets play calling is questionable at best. I know he can’t get Carter to throw past ten yards without a realistic fear of an interception, but come on….the three and outs are old. The only reason I don’t give the coaching an F is because the defensive scheme was solid.

Grade: D-

Micah Knorr
Sucked punting…sucked holding. He was Carteresque today. In other words…he sucked.

Grade: F

Defensive line
Nice job today. Well thought out defensive game plan and well executed.

Grade: A

Linebackers
Same as the line.

Grade: A

cornerbacks
Edwards needs to cut down on the mental errors. The corners were the weak link of the defense today, but even os, the defense only gave up 9 points and no touchdowns.

Grade: C+

Safety
Roy Williams shows me the potential to be a perrenial all pro. The man is aplayer. He made some of the nicest and hardest hits today that I have seen in a while. Great effort by Roy.

Grade: A+

Special Teams
Not so good. Punting sucked, extra point sucked….return game ok, but some dumbass penalties just prevent me from rewarding the special teams units.

Grade: F

Overall, the Cowboys defense did a great job. I would normally be supremely happy about 9 points and no touchdowns. Carters suckjob today was of epic proportions. If anyone wants a play by paly, I kept it today. I can only think the paper I wrote it on is good for one thing….puppy training. The level of Carters stench today will resonate across the league. What a waste of time it was to watch that lack of effort. You may comment at your leisure.

kg_veteran · 10-20-2002, 10:36 PM

Excellent post Doc.

Rhylan · 10-20-2002, 10:42 PM

<< YOU ARE THE ANSWER!...let's bring in Rhylan. He's a project, but he's young and hard working. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Sorry, Rhylan...I couldn't resist. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] >>

I have to take this opportunity to say that I would have at least thrown the ball away when Q threw the INT into the end zone when we were in field goal range in the 4th.

I also have to note that my short junior high football career does not put me into the class of "projects." Lost causes is more like it. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

FilthyFinMavs · 10-20-2002, 10:43 PM

I cant say I disagree with ur post DOC everything was on point. Though I give Carter atleast a F+ or D- for scoring the only touchdown today lol.

Drbio · 10-20-2002, 10:43 PM

Thanks kg!

Rhylan- I can't think of even one person that wouldn't have thrown that ball out of bounds.....I mean except Crater.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

Drbio · 10-20-2002, 10:44 PM

<< I cant say I disagree with ur post DOC everything was on point. Though I give Carter atleast a F+ or D- for scoring the only touchdown today lol. >>

That was the only reason I didn't give him a G.

FINtastic · 10-20-2002, 11:10 PM

Drbio, I do think that you need to drop Bryant's grade to a D. I know you probably did not hear this, but he reportedly was sat in OT for bitching and arguing with coaches. That's stupid and inexcusable. We don't need another problem child. I would say give him an F for that, but he did at least make that great TD catch so I guess you could raise it to about a D.

Drbio · 10-20-2002, 11:14 PM

The grade was for his effort, but you are correct...I didn't hear about that. I wondered why he wasn't out there on that third down play late. Thanks for the info.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-20-2002, 11:15 PM

<< Drbio, I do think that you need to drop Bryant's grade to a D. I know you probably did not hear this, but he reportedly was sat in OT for bitching and arguing with coaches. That's stupid and inexcusable. We don't need another problem child. I would say give him an F for that, but he did at least make that great TD catch so I guess you could raise it to about a D. >>

This is exactly why he was a 2nd round pick. Acting like a damn fool. It didnt make sense for Cowboys to get 1 of the best receivers in this draft and you can tell why. He is late to interviewsa nd this whole lil trend is starting. THe receiver coach I forget his name is real hard on him he needs to put him in check right now. I knew it was a reason why he wasnt in the game. I give him a F+ for attitude but give him a B for overall performance.

FINtastic · 10-20-2002, 11:16 PM

Heard it from Dale. Had he not been marred by this, then I think he would deserve the A that you gave him. But I am beginning two wonder about his attitude. It is the second game in a row that he has had disciplinary problems that caused him to sit out time in a game.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-20-2002, 11:17 PM

BTW, I dont mind Bryant having attitude because if u look he is real arrogant and confident which is real good to have in a reciever but unlike Moss he gives effort. Matter of fact when is there a good WR who doesent have attitude? Owens? Moss?

Evilmav2 · 10-20-2002, 11:17 PM

Quincy Carter. Carter had perhaps the worst day in Cowboys quarterback history.

Absolutely correct DrBio...

FINtastic · 10-20-2002, 11:21 PM

Marvin Harrison doesn't seem to have any major attitude problems. He IS the best receiver in the NFL right now. Terrell Owens and Randy Moss both haven't been playing up to their ability so far this season (I think some of it is due to their poor attitudes).

Drbio · 10-20-2002, 11:26 PM

The comparisons with Irvin are good. He has talents and attitudes similar to Irvin when Irvin was a younger man. I hope he turns out better of course. I like this guy. I don't like hearing about arguments with the coaches, but that may pass. The talent is there.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-20-2002, 11:29 PM

Thats very well true but there is no one else u can make a argument for who are ebtter than Owens and Moss those are 2 of the best. Tim Brown and Jerry are all nice guys with no attitude but they dont have anything on Moss or Owens. Those are just a cuople of names there are more recievers with attitude.

Saying Carter has had the worst day in Cowboys history is a lil strong. Matter of fact he was hideous last season lol. No game this season was as worse as last season he really couldnt do anything last season. BTW, the game Aikman threw 5 interceptions has to be up there with one of the worsts this game doesnet come close I have seen a handful worser then this.

FINtastic · 10-20-2002, 11:35 PM

Oh, this was a very bad game for Quincy, and it may rank top 10 or even top 5, but it wasn't the worst. I'd have to say numero uno goes to Clint Stoernor for throwing 4 int. in about 2 quarters to help the Giants have something like a 20 point comeback. That tops out Quincy's performance today by far. Also, Troy's 5 int game rates ahead of Quincy's game.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-20-2002, 11:36 PM

Matter of fact while we are on the WR issue Cowboys have a good core of recievers. Im gonna exclude Darnay and Mcgee from this because I think they have played well for the Cowboys. Anyway guys like Rambo, Swinton, Randall Williams and Bryant of course all show promise. WIlliams is the worse of the bunch but the guy has the tools to become a god reciever its just he becomes afraid to catch the ball at times. Problem with Bryant is playign like he has been in the NFL before while the others look inexperienced but they do show they can play in this league. My fav other than Bryant is Swinton that guy takes 2 steps and bursts threw. I dont think we can never blame a loss on the Recievers this season because Mcgee, Darnay, and Bryant and even Galloway suprsingly have all bailed us out at times. Does anyone know if Cowboys run plays with 3 recievers? It seems its always Galloway and Bryant out there.

FINtastic · 10-20-2002, 11:39 PM

I think Swinton is vastly underrated. It seems like the Cowboys never want to use him, but whenever I see him out there he always seems to be making big catches and big plays. I don't really recall seeing him drop a lot of passes. It's been my opinion for a while now that he needs to be incorporated into the offense more.

#1MavsFan · 10-21-2002, 12:14 AM

FilthyFinMavs and FINtastic you bring up a good point. Why doesnt bruce coslet use rambo or swinton? Has he even had more than 2 recivers on the field more than 5 times a game? Swinton last year made some big catches for us and so did rambo. I dont think coslets system is right for the cowboys. He needs make quincy throw down the field more often( thats where he has the most sucess). And he needs to run more plays that quincy can run in. If swinton is given the playing time he could be a huge weapon for us[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Epitome22 · 10-21-2002, 05:46 AM

I've come to the conclusion that Quincy Carter isn't near as bad as his detractors make him out to be but is nowhere near as good as his apologists seem to project him ot be. He'll make a nice backup

Drbio · 10-21-2002, 10:16 AM

He needs make quincy throw down the field more often( thats where he has the most sucess).

hahahaha....oh dear lord this is the funniest post ever.....

FilthyFinMavs · 10-21-2002, 03:00 PM

<< I've come to the conclusion that Quincy Carter isn't near as bad as his detractors make him out to be but is nowhere near as good as his apologists seem to project him ot be. He'll make a nice backup >>

I dotn know if ur concering or talking about this board or outside of it but no one hear has said Quincy will be any good. We are just basiclaly saying give him a chance.

Drbio · 10-21-2002, 04:04 PM

That is not true. There were several threads dedicated to those who called Quincy a star, future star, etc. We've been throught this already....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

FilthyFinMavs · 10-21-2002, 04:07 PM

<< That is not true. There were several threads dedicated to those who called Quincy a star, future star, etc. We've been throught this already....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img] >>

BIO that was a poll u are talking about everyone posted in that thread and no one called him a star. I voted him being a star but that was because jus for the people who said he sucks which is just as untrue as calling him a star. Matter of fact tpeople have posted that repeatedly thats why they voted him as a star.

southern_sweets · 10-21-2002, 04:20 PM

Just heard on ESPN News that Hutch will replace Carter for the next game.

Now you all have something new to fight about (LOL).

Dooby · 10-21-2002, 04:25 PM

WTF?

southern_sweets · 10-21-2002, 04:31 PM

Yes, Dooby, I heard it on ESPN News.

And here's the article from ESPN.com...

Cowboys yank Carter for Hutchinson
Quincy Carter is out and Chad Hutchinson is in as the starting quarterback of the Cowboys. The Cowboys made the surprising switch on Oct. 21, one day after Carter threw four interceptions _ two around the end zone _ in a 9-6 overtime loss to Arizona. Coach Dave Campo called a news conference to discuss the move. He did not indicate a switch was in the works during his typical day-after news conference earlier Oct. 21. Hutchinson has not played a down in the NFL and last took a snap in a game that counted as a sophomore at Stanford. He returned to football last summer after spending four years playing professional baseball. Carter was rushed into the job, too, going from second-round pick to opening-day starter last season. He went 3-5 as a rookie and is 3-4 this season. Carter pulled out the last two wins with stellar play in the final minutes, but the games might not have been so close if he'd been better in the first three quarters. He wasn't able to pull overcome his early mistakes on Oct. 20 against the Cardinals.

Evilmav2 · 10-21-2002, 04:34 PM

LOL... If you are right Sweets, then things are about to get very interesting for our beleagered Cowboys. Give Hutch a bad game or three and this QB controversy is liable to get pretty heated...

southern_sweets · 10-21-2002, 04:37 PM

A new thread was started at the same time as my post...happy debating guys! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]