Postgame: Mavs vs. Pacers: Serious RoddyWood - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dirkadirkastan · 02-23-2010, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Avery didn't "take" the Mavs anywhere. He was along for the ride. Dirk took the Mavs to the finals and to 67 wins. Dirk. Not Avery. Dirk.

I've said many times before and I'll say again, the Mavs were successful in spite of Avery, not because of him.

Well, if it wasn't Avery, it was one of the assistant coaches. The strategies used to speed up San Antonio and slow down Phoenix cannot be ignored.

Usually Lurkin · 02-23-2010, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Well, if it wasn't Avery, it was one of the assistant coaches. The strategies used to speed up San Antonio and slow down Phoenix cannot be ignored.

neither can the intensity that they sustained for 2 full seasons and (almost) 1 full post-season.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-23-2010, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

And as many time as you say it, someone's going to say, "you can tell because of all the finals appearances they made before and after Avery was coach."

True enough. But then again, I also can't think of many other NBA coaches who blew a 2-0 lead in the finals, and fewer still who had the 1st seed and managed to lose a seven game series to the 8th seed. Running the the team into the ground and insulting everyone in the process the next year was just the icing on the cake.

dirno2000 · 02-23-2010, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

wow. really? Erick Dampier? we should make that guy's contract end every year.

Has nothing to do with a contract. Damp's been one of the better rebounders in the league for a while now. He's averaged at least 12 rebounds per 40 minutes every year since 2002-203. By comparison Haywood topped out at 11 a couple of years ago.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-23-2010, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Has nothing to do with a contract. Damp's been one of the better rebounders in the league for a while now. He's averaged at least 12 rebounds per 40 minutes every year since 2002-203. By comparison Haywood topped out at 11 a couple of years ago.

It's worth noting that statistically speaking his best season as a Maverick was arguably 04/05, the first year of his contract.

dirno2000 · 02-23-2010, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

True enough. But then again, I also can't think of many other NBA coaches who blew a 2-0 lead in the finals, and fewer still who had the 1st seed and managed to lose a seven game series to the 8th seed. Running the the team into the ground and insulting everyone in the process the next year was just the icing on the cake.

I can't think of many NBA players who have done that either. If you're going to say he rode Dirk's coattails to the finals and 67 wins then he also rode those same coattails to the two historic collapses.

grndmstr_c · 02-23-2010, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I can't think of many NBA players who have done that either. If you're going to say he rode Dirk's coattails to the finals and 67 wins then he also rode those same coattails to the two historic collapses.

Nah. The collapses are on Devin.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-23-2010, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I can't think of many NBA players who have done that either. If you're going to say he rode Dirk's coattails to the finals and 67 wins then he also rode those same coattails to the two historic collapses.

Was it Dirk's job to decide the rotations and make defensive adjustments? No? Avery's fault then.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-23-2010, 06:32 AM

I'd like to give some attention to Stevenson and Najera. They both had solid bench contributions. It would be huge if Deshawn could keep that jump shot going.

You almost forget how good Najera's defense is since he is injured all the time. His defense > Hump's/Gooden's d.

Usually Lurkin · 02-23-2010, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Has nothing to do with a contract. Damp's been one of the better rebounders in the league for a while now. He's averaged at least 12 rebounds per 40 minutes every year since 2002-203. By comparison Haywood topped out at 11 a couple of years ago.

He doesn't have a lot of 20 rebound games.

Usually Lurkin · 02-23-2010, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

It's worth noting that statistically speaking his best season as a Maverick was arguably 04/05, the first year of his contract.

Under coach Avery "The Motivator" Johnson, and included his previous 20 rebound game (26!).

But I can't believe you might really be saying that Damp doesn't play better in a contract year.

Usually Lurkin · 02-23-2010, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Was it Dirk's job to decide the rotations and make defensive adjustments? No? Avery's fault then.

Dirk did give up a couple costly fouls to Dwyane Wade.

(edit: my point is that the refs stole that series from us, and if anyone disagrees, they should be punched in the stomach.)

Thomas86 · 02-23-2010, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Avery didn't "take" the Mavs anywhere. He was along for the ride. Dirk took the Mavs to the finals and to 67 wins. Dirk. Not Avery. Dirk.

I've said many times before and I'll say again, the Mavs were successful in spite of Avery, not because of him.

Ok but wasn't Avery the person that made the Mavs play DEFENSE something that Don Nelson didn't tell the players to do?....Oh and I remember Jason Terry being a BIG part of the Finals run not just Dirk, the Mavs where all offense when Don Nelson was coach but Avery took over and made them play defense and the Mavs went all the way to the Finlas, the Mavs where damm near 2 games away from wining the NBA Title and I don't see another coach besides Avery in record books that did that.

Usually Lurkin · 02-23-2010, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Under coach Avery "The Motivator" Johnson, and included his previous 20 rebound game (26!).

But I can't believe you might really be saying that Damp doesn't play better in a contract year.

edit: compare that year to 03-04, a contract year, in which he had about 6 games with 20 or more rebounds and averaged 12.

tcat075 · 02-23-2010, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'd like to give some attention to Stevenson and Najera. They both had solid bench contributions. It would be huge if Deshawn could keep that jumped going.

You almost forget how good Najera's defense is since he is injured all the time. His defense > Hump's/Gooden's d.

What are you doing man? Talking about the actual game that just happened? Don't be ridiculous. You should be rehashing stuff that happened years ago!

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-23-2010, 08:33 AM

^No kidding.

How the hell did this turn into Avery Johnson thread?

tcat075 · 02-23-2010, 08:46 AM

My thoughts exactly. I thought we'd already discussed the whole Avery/JHo/Dirk/Finals/playoffs things enough. Apparently not.

So that trade exception we got from New Jersey? We were originally supposed to have used it in the Butler trade, then we were supposed to use it to pick up a player from Washington. Now that the trade deadline is past, is it still usable? After all, a trade exception really isn't a trade, but technically it is one. I'd assume it isn't, because I haven't heard anything about it, but I wanted to be sure.

sefant77 · 02-23-2010, 09:13 AM

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tcat075 · 02-23-2010, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

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Totally agree. Great point.

Usually Lurkin · 02-23-2010, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

^No kidding.

How the hell did this turn into Avery Johnson thread?

I think we're talking about how much better off we are with Butler and Haywood, and why we needed the trade. Avery enters the discussion on account of the running gag (er, hypothesis) that Avery he responsible for when players got worse (leading to the needs filled by Butler and Haywood), but not responsible for any improvement.

dirt_dobber · 02-23-2010, 09:26 AM

Kidd's rest is the story

By Tim MacMahon
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...t-is-the-story

DALLAS -- Dirk Nowitzki had to give Jason Kidd a hard time after glancing at the box score.

"Only 27 minutes?" Dirk hollered across the locker room, making sure a handful of reporters heard him. "That means he has a great practice in him tomorrow!"

The Mavs' 91-82 win over the Indiana Pacers wasn't pretty, but it was comfortable enough for Kidd to rest the entire fourth quarter while rookie Rodrigue Beaubois got valuable on-the-job experience running the point.

Beaubois, who hadn't played since the All-Star break, finished with six points on 2-of-8 shooting, three rebounds, two assists and no turnovers. Rick Carlisle, who wasn't in a great mood after the game, complimented Beaubois' energy.

"He came in and was ready to play," Jason Terry said. "He pushed the ball, pushed the tempo. He still made some rookie mistakes, but that's to be expected."

Beaubois' development is a long-term issue. Managing Kidd's minutes is a more pressing concern at the moment, especially with the 36-year-old playing 40-plus minutes the previous three games. Kidd has logged more minutes this season than any other point guard in the league.

"It helps tremendously," Carlisle said. "Jason has really been willing our team to some of these victories. He just has driven himself hard. He’s driving our team hard. Every minute he plays, he’s playing at a higher octane than most guys."

Every minute Kidd rests might pay dividends down the stretch this season.

Underdog · 02-23-2010, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'd like to give some attention to Stevenson and Najera. They both had solid bench contributions. It would be huge if Deshawn could keep that jumped going.

You almost forget how good Najera's defense is since he is injured all the time. His defense > Hump's/Gooden's d.

Agreed.

Stevenson looks hungry - I think coming to Dallas was a good change for him. So far he's impressed me a lot more than Ross ever did.

I love Najera's hustle out there. He brings the same energy to defense that Gooden/Humphries brought on offense (on a good day).

Dirkenstien · 02-23-2010, 10:27 AM

Man it was grea to see Roddy out there. If we could just find him 10-12 minutes a night that would be fantastic and I think would do wonders to help him translate more of his talent to the court. 0 turnovers was great, but he has the speed and shooting touch to asbolutely shred defenses apart once he starts to get comfortable out there.

Loved the effort from Haywood and it was nice seeing Stevenson get some burn. When Wafer comes aboard we're going to be stacked at the wing positions.

dude1394 · 02-23-2010, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

^No kidding.

How the hell did this turn into Avery Johnson thread?

Nash, Avery, Devin are always simmering below the surface in mavsland.

EDIT: Add Roddy to that.

Skywalker · 02-23-2010, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Kidd has logged more minutes this season than any other point guard in the league.

Now this is something to worry about.

tcat075 · 02-23-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywalker

Now this is something to worry about.

Yes, yes it is. Big time.

kg_veteran · 02-23-2010, 11:28 AM

Several observations:

1. When/if Dampier can come back healthy, this team is going to be excellent at the center position -- better than it has been at any point in the Cuban era.

2. Stevenson is a bulldog on defense. He appears capable of guarding three positions, and he also looks to be a very smart team defender. He is going to be an asset at playoff time, especially when he is only used in limited doses. Between he and Von Wafer, surely we can fill out a nine-man rotation.

3. This team should be stout defensively and on the glass by the time it's all said and done. I just hope there's enough offense to beat the best.

4. I loved seeing Roddy getting time, but I think the reality is that we should not count on getting contributions from either he or Barea at playoff time.

dalmations202 · 02-23-2010, 11:50 AM

Stevenson showed me something last night. He can D when he wants to.

Roddy showed his quicks, but he seemed more interested in the offense, than D last night, IMO.

This team will be good -- I am not sure about good enough, but very good.

Dallas needs to start the contract talks with Haywood now, imo, he is playing really well.

I want to see what Dallas can do when Damp and Haywood are rolling.

IMO, RC needs to cut back a few min of JET and make him more of a shooter. Right now he is trying to do too much.

TThomas needs to get back ASAP, and take some of the PF and SF minutes. This would force Marion and Butler into nearly all of the SG minutes. Heck even Najera can take the PF minutes for Dirk in short doses as long as Butler, Kidd, and Haywood are out there at that time.

If RC could massage the rotation right, and get the matchups right......Wow.

LonghornDub · 02-23-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

Kidd has logged more minutes this season than any other point guard in the league.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywalker

Now this is something to worry about.

Not really. It's a skewed statistic. Kidd has only missed, what, one game this year? Most of the other good or elite starting PG's have missed several games (CP3, Nash, D-Will, etc.).

A much more telling stat would be minutes per game played.

sike · 02-23-2010, 12:25 PM

Carlisle said they "Played like crap" last night and that he was happy to get a win when they played so poorly.

"That was not playoff winning basketball".

But honestly, what do you expect from your scrubs, Rick?

I like the intensity...but don't bury the lead, RC...rest for your guys and a W.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-23-2010, 12:40 PM

I always thought Stevenson was at least decent. I couldn't believe to see how bad his stats were in Washington this season when the trade rumors started. He is a lot bigger than Ross and looks to be able to handle the ball some too. But like every single back-up, defensive oriented guard the Mavs have had....can he hit the damn jump shot consistently? We shall see....but it would make the bench a lot stronger if he does......

tcat075 · 02-23-2010, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Not really. It's a skewed statistic. Kidd has only missed, what, one game this year? Most of the other good or elite starting PG's have missed several games (CP3, Nash, D-Will, etc.).

A much more telling stat would be minutes per game played.

Yes and no. The fact that he leads all point guards in minutes may not mean that he would have the most minutes, but he does. He's still 36. That's still a ton of minutes regardless of whether or not he leads in mpg.

LonghornDub · 02-23-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Yes and no. The fact that he leads all point guards in minutes may not mean that he would have the most minutes, but he does. He's still 36. That's still a ton of minutes regardless of whether or not he leads in mpg.

If the implication is that he should be very far down the list because he's 36, I disagree. He's one of the best PG's in the league. He's got to play a lot.

I'd imagine if all of the other good PG's had been healthy all year, Kidd would be closer to 5th or 6th on the list. I am entirely comfortable with that. He's certainly been playing too many minutes since the ASG, but on the course of the year, I think he's fine.

tcat075 · 02-23-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

If the implication is that he should be very far down the list because he's 36, I disagree. He's one of the best PG's in the league. He's got to play a lot.

I'd imagine if all of the other good PG's had been healthy all year, Kidd would be closer to 5th or 6th on the list. I am entirely comfortable with that. He's certainly been playing too many minutes since the ASG, but on the course of the year, I think he's fine.

The implication isn't that he should be way down on the list, but that you wish he could be. He obviously can't due to what he provides this club, but whenever you get a chance through the rest of the season, you rest him and keep him fresh for the playoffs. And yes, it is worrisome. I worry that he won't be able to play like this in the playoffs. He's the biggest reason for this 4 game (and hopefully more) win streak.

dude1394 · 02-23-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Carlisle said they "Played like crap" last night and that he was happy to get a win when they played so poorly.

"That was not playoff winning basketball".

But honestly, what do you expect from your scrubs, Rick?

I like the intensity...but don't bury the lead, RC...rest for your guys and a W.

He wasn't talking about the scrubs, the starters played like crap.

Dirkenstien · 02-23-2010, 04:00 PM

Well hopefully Roddy continues to get minutes to rest Kidd. If he plays about 10-12 minutes a game he has a chance of being ready to contribute come playoff time.

badfish22 · 02-23-2010, 04:16 PM

http://www.nba.com/video/mavericks/

ReDirkulous Tyme · 02-23-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

http://www.nba.com/video/mavericks/

Question of the day:

Who the hell was that laughing at the 2:30-2:32 mark? Wow....

as far as the video goes, I haven't heard anything I didn't love from CB. Liking him more every day!!

Kidd Karma · 02-23-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

If the implication is that he should be very far down the list because he's 36, I disagree. He's one of the best PG's in the league. He's got to play a lot.

I'd imagine if all of the other good PG's had been healthy all year, Kidd would be closer to 5th or 6th on the list. I am entirely comfortable with that. He's certainly been playing too many minutes since the ASG, but on the course of the year, I think he's fine.

I think the figures would all balance out to around 34 a night when all is said and done....but we haven't had many laughers to drive his minutes down. Hopefully with the new talent, we have a few more laughers....maybe a little more comfort in Roddy working the new guys into our schemes. One comparison I love to draw is Stockton, post 35, he only had 1 year +30 mpgs. The other 4 ranged from 28-29.7. I think eventually Kidd will need to be reigned back, and this should happen next year, with Roddy getting fully immersed in the NBA, and by year 3 of Kidd's contract, wouldn't be surprised to see him start, but play under 30 a night, with Roddy pushing 35.

CadBane · 02-23-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

He wasn't talking about the scrubs, the starters played like crap.

I dk about that. Haywood had an efficient 20 rebound game, Dirk was 7-14 with 23/7 and a +26 in only 30 minutes. Kidd was solid. All the starters played great defense. Pretty hard to be playing like crap while rocking a +20.