08-16-2006, 01:20 PM
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#81
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,305
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Keeping in mind we would be getting Johnson along with him, a huge upgrade over Harris while Smith is about the same as Howard (and throwing in Stack as well)?Howard might be a little better overall but Smith is younger and definitely way better on defense, JJ would more than pick up the offensive hole left by Howard. And think of the highlight dunks!
Once again destroying a core that made it to the finals is crazy, buts its nice to think about upgrading and this trade is very intriguing. If we were kicked out of the playoffs before the finals it would be worth more consideration though. I think AJ wouldnt give a damna bout parting with Harris if he knew he could get JJ in return.
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08-16-2006, 02:12 PM
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#82
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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Harris is overrated and we will never get a player like JJ strait up for harris...its just carzy.
And i dont think they would give up Smith, i think it would b Childress
Lets say Harris and Stack for Childress and Sroudemire(spellin)...This probably wouldnt work but if it did i would do it because i dont have HI hopes for Harris and although Stack is a huge part of this team we would get some good stuff back and i would b willin to let him go.
__________________
"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
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08-16-2006, 02:58 PM
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#83
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,299
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Although I don't like it, I can see why someone might want to give up Devin for JJ. But I cannot, for the life of me, understand why anyone would want to give up Devin... yes, the same Devin who has forced the Spurs to dump their Centers and play small ball against us... for some unproven talent from a last-placed team?!
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08-16-2006, 03:01 PM
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#84
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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OK seriously does any1 think that ATL would give JJ for Harris come on..
Although i dont like JJ and dont want him on this team Harris is nowhere close to him as a player rite now
__________________
"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
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08-16-2006, 03:10 PM
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#85
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,299
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JJ is a better player than Harris today, but he's also only entering the 2nd year of a ridiculously bad contract.
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08-16-2006, 04:45 PM
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#86
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: David Sterns living-room
Posts: 315
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So in essense we get Delfino, Simmons and Joe Johnson or was JJ just a hypthetical suggestion?
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Diehard LakerFan and MaverickFan
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08-16-2006, 06:39 PM
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#87
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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The ONLY reason that the mavs Hawks would give up JJ is that belkin is about to get control of the team and he was the one owner who didnt want JJ. As for JJ being unproven? Really? What the heck do you want him to do to prove himself plus he is only 25 himself. Devin is 23. Not a big age difference. As for smith, this may or may not be indicative of what he will do in the future but for the last month last year he averaged 17.5, 7.5, 4.2, 3.36, and 1.45. Obviously its too short a sample size to draw anything definitive from the guy is an amazing talent. BTW overall D an passing should also be added to the list of things he definitely does better than josh howard.
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08-16-2006, 06:42 PM
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#88
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,048
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Harris isn't going anywhere. Our team is set.
__________________
''Nowitzki'' is a German word that, translated, means, ''Good Lord, doesn't this guy ever miss?''
-Miami paper on Dirk Nowitzki
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08-16-2006, 07:28 PM
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#89
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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Trading Harris for Joe is an absolute no-brainer.. Joe is, in my opinion, a top 20 talent who hasn't even hit his prime yet, and probably one of the 5 most versatile guards in the league. Meanwhile, Devin really has a lot to prove, and I would go as far as to say that he hasn't lived up to the #5 pick yet..
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08-16-2006, 08:07 PM
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#90
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Mexico Mountains
Posts: 2,399
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Beware of big stats put up by players on bad teams. To say Smith is much better than Howard when Josh is the 3rd option behind 2 great scorers invites huge disappointment when the player from the bad team is no longer the focus of the offense.
Chemistry is so important. Have we forgotten the lesson of the Antwoinnes? More stars doesn't nessesarily make for a better team. We could be looking at another year of new guys learning to play with each other, and if they don't mesh, more trades. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I'd be fine with trading Stack for Simmons. Even if his ankles are questionable, he'd play reduced minutes as a 6th man, and we have plenty of backup at the 2/3 to let him rest and heal. But trading Harris, leaving only Jet and A Johnson as point guards I see as a bad move, because it is unnessesarily disruptive. I keep hearing Harris is overated. I just want the kid to get in 1 full, healthy year before dumping him. He not only changed SA, he scored 30 against PHX. And he's still played fewer minutes than the average top 10 pick rookie like Chris Paul played in 1 year! He could easily end up a far better player that Joe Johnson. Great scoring 2 guards are a dime a dozen compared to dominating point guards. If we want one, fine, but we've done well without one, and sure don't need to give up Harris to get one.
Tinker around the edges, but hands off the core. Remember 2003. It took 3 years to recover from our last trip to the conference finals. Don't make that mistake again.
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"He got dimes." Harrison Barnes on Luca Doncic during his 1st NBA training camp.
Last edited by G-Man; 08-16-2006 at 08:11 PM.
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08-16-2006, 09:08 PM
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#91
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Between Sun and Moon
Posts: 2,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Man
Beware of big stats put up by players on bad teams. To say Smith is much better than Howard when Josh is the 3rd option behind 2 great scorers invites huge disappointment when the player from the bad team is no longer the focus of the offense.
Chemistry is so important. Have we forgotten the lesson of the Antwoinnes? More stars doesn't nessesarily make for a better team. We could be looking at another year of new guys learning to play with each other, and if they don't mesh, more trades. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I'd be fine with trading Stack for Simmons. Even if his ankles are questionable, he'd play reduced minutes as a 6th man, and we have plenty of backup at the 2/3 to let him rest and heal. But trading Harris, leaving only Jet and A Johnson as point guards I see as a bad move, because it is unnessesarily disruptive. I keep hearing Harris is overated. I just want the kid to get in 1 full, healthy year before dumping him. He not only changed SA, he scored 30 against PHX. And he's still played fewer minutes than the average top 10 pick rookie like Chris Paul played in 1 year! He could easily end up a far better player that Joe Johnson. Great scoring 2 guards are a dime a dozen compared to dominating point guards. If we want one, fine, but we've done well without one, and sure don't need to give up Harris to get one.
Tinker around the edges, but hands off the core. Remember 2003. It took 3 years to recover from our last trip to the conference finals. Don't make that mistake again.
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Finally, a voice of reason.
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Mavericks team pic. Guess which one is Stack.
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08-17-2006, 01:02 AM
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#92
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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I'd definitely say Joe Johnson is more than a "scoring 2 guard." The guy has the versatility to play three positons on either side of the court, can create his own shot or hit the three, and is a five-tool player.. he doesn't even have to get better (although he almost definitely will) to be better than every player we have besides Dirk.. I'm not buying the Devin hype. I like him, but I don't think he's going to be much more than a fringe starter in the NBA. If I could package Stack and Devin for Joe Johnson, I'd do it.. I'd even throw in a 1st pick.
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08-17-2006, 01:31 AM
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#93
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,189
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Devin and Stack for JJ is a no brainer, but it isn't going to happen. I think the Simmons thing might though.
__________________
"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of."
"For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man
"We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people."
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08-17-2006, 03:21 PM
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#94
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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Anyway, the poster that posted the rumor isnt to be trusted at this point of time. Even if he is telling the truth, he said nothing about Johnson. He said that there might be a trade with Atlanta previous to the trade with Milwaukee, that Atlanta's picks might be coming back to us before getting shipped out in the trade with the Bucks, and that Atlanta was interested in Devin Harris. That is all.
Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 08-17-2006 at 03:22 PM.
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08-17-2006, 08:28 PM
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#95
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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As for the stack and devin for JJ deal, that does sound nice, maybe someone should give it its own thread....... As for the Josh Smith vs Josh howard comparison when did i ever say he was much better? I said he was probably better which is a LONG way from saying he is much better. I wouldnt do a 1 for 1 josh for josh deal because i think that offense is the mavs problem much moreso than D and this trade would hurt the mavs O. Now if we are getting JJ that no longer becomes a concern so im not worried about it.
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08-17-2006, 08:51 PM
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#96
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,189
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Currently, Jho>JSmith
Smith has good potential though, and is very good defensively. His offense needs to develop more, whereas Jho is a little worse defensively but much more developed offensively.
__________________
"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of."
"For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man
"We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people."
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08-17-2006, 09:19 PM
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#97
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13
Currently, Jho>JSmith
Smith has good potential though, and is very good defensively. His offense needs to develop more, whereas Jho is a little worse defensively but much more developed offensively.
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Jho is alot worse defensively. Jho is alot better offensively though. Overall i think josh is slightly better right now but its mostly a question of what the team needs and i think the mavs need jhos O more than smiths D.
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08-18-2006, 03:17 AM
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#98
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Citadel
Posts: 4,227
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Comparing Smith to Howard defensively is not fair. Howard defends more on the perimeter than Smith does.
As far as all around play, it's not even close. Smith could close the gap eventually, but his game isn't near Howard's right now.
__________________
The wind rises electric. She's soft and warm and almost weightless. Her perfume is sweet promise that brings tears to my eyes. I tell her that everything will be all right; that I'll save her from whatever she's scared and take her far far away. I tell her that I love her. The silencer makes a whisper of the gunshot. I hold her close until she's gone. I'll never know what she was running from. I'll cash her check in the morning.
~The Salesman
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08-18-2006, 11:39 AM
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#99
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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Howard is a slightly above average defender. Jsmith is a very good defender. I dont really know where jho's defensive rep came from other than that every swingman who comes to dallas automatically gets a rep as a defender. For example see Ager. He was an average defender in college but we drafted him to be a Wade stopper. Really? I hope to god we arent that stupid.
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08-18-2006, 12:07 PM
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#100
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Citadel
Posts: 4,227
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Actually, in the ACC, he was known as a defensive player. His senior season, i believe he averaged 10rpg/2blks/nearly 2stls starting at shooting guard. Those are some amazing numbers for a guard.
__________________
The wind rises electric. She's soft and warm and almost weightless. Her perfume is sweet promise that brings tears to my eyes. I tell her that everything will be all right; that I'll save her from whatever she's scared and take her far far away. I tell her that I love her. The silencer makes a whisper of the gunshot. I hold her close until she's gone. I'll never know what she was running from. I'll cash her check in the morning.
~The Salesman
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08-18-2006, 12:24 PM
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#101
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
Actually, in the ACC, he was known as a defensive player. His senior season, i believe he averaged 10rpg/2blks/nearly 2stls starting at shooting guard. Those are some amazing numbers for a guard.
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I never said josh wasnt good in college defensively. I said he isnt much above average now which quite frankly he isnt. I dont really see anything that point to the contrary. He doesnt have defensive numbers that are anything out of the ordinary, his defensive plus minus is bad, and he doesnt look that good defensively on the eyeball test. As a matter of fact i wouldnt rank him any higher than dirk defensively. Neither is a defensive liability but neither is a strength defensively.
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08-18-2006, 12:39 PM
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#102
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,255
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Nothing new on this rumor. Probably dead air now.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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08-18-2006, 01:26 PM
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#103
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Just outside the Metroplex
Posts: 5,540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Nothing new on this rumor. Probably dead air now.
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It was dead air when it was typed.
It never really made sense anyway.
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08-18-2006, 03:27 PM
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#104
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-ofan
I never said josh wasnt good in college defensively. I said he isnt much above average now which quite frankly he isnt. I dont really see anything that point to the contrary. He doesnt have defensive numbers that are anything out of the ordinary, his defensive plus minus is bad, and he doesnt look that good defensively on the eyeball test. As a matter of fact i wouldnt rank him any higher than dirk defensively. Neither is a defensive liability but neither is a strength defensively.
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I would say Jho is a strength defensively, not a big one though.
__________________
"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of."
"For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man
"We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people."
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08-19-2006, 12:23 AM
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#105
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Citadel
Posts: 4,227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-ofan
I never said josh wasnt good in college defensively. I said he isnt much above average now which quite frankly he isnt. I dont really see anything that point to the contrary. He doesnt have defensive numbers that are anything out of the ordinary, his defensive plus minus is bad, and he doesnt look that good defensively on the eyeball test. As a matter of fact i wouldnt rank him any higher than dirk defensively. Neither is a defensive liability but neither is a strength defensively.
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I'm not at all trying to single you out or anything, i thought that when you made the comment about Ager's defensive rep coming from college, i just referred to Howard's. I misunderstood your post.
__________________
The wind rises electric. She's soft and warm and almost weightless. Her perfume is sweet promise that brings tears to my eyes. I tell her that everything will be all right; that I'll save her from whatever she's scared and take her far far away. I tell her that I love her. The silencer makes a whisper of the gunshot. I hold her close until she's gone. I'll never know what she was running from. I'll cash her check in the morning.
~The Salesman
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08-19-2006, 01:13 AM
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#106
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 4,627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13
Currently, Jho>JSmith
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I dont think Nashty was comparing JHO to JSmith in an unfair way. Hence the (>) "greater than sign".
Last edited by mqywaaah; 08-19-2006 at 01:17 AM.
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08-19-2006, 01:59 AM
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#107
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,189
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I think these rumors are dead. I think we have our team for 06-07.
__________________
"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of."
"For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man
"We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people."
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08-20-2006, 01:06 AM
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#108
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 4,627
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Can we officially close this thread now?
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08-20-2006, 01:21 AM
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#109
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,189
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It doesn't need to be closed, but it's over. There's no need to post in this thread anymore.
__________________
"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of."
"For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man
"We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people."
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08-20-2006, 03:27 AM
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#110
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 4,627
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Roger that! Now can we officially declare this thread closed?
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08-20-2006, 03:34 AM
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#111
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mqywaaah
Roger that! Now can we officially declare this thread closed?
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Yep.
__________________
"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of."
"For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man
"We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people."
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08-20-2006, 03:44 AM
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#112
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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I am so glad this thread is dead!
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08-20-2006, 03:50 AM
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#113
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
I am so glad this thread is dead!
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Same here, over half of it was just redirkulous.
__________________
"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of."
"For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man
"We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people."
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08-20-2006, 09:07 PM
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#114
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,481
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Every thread in this section of the forum is ridiculous...
__________________
"I say 'Hey Lama, how about a little something ya know', for the effort?' And he says 'oh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed you will receive total consciousness.' So I got that going for me...which is nice."
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08-20-2006, 09:17 PM
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#115
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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I know, Im just glad no one is posting in this section any more
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08-20-2006, 11:12 PM
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#116
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,189
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As 5-0 would say, I concurr.
__________________
"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of."
"For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man
"We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people."
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08-20-2006, 11:18 PM
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#117
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,864
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me too. thank god this thing is over. i'm glad we're not posting here anymore.
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08-20-2006, 11:19 PM
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#118
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XERXES
me too. thank god this thing is over. i'm glad we're not posting here anymore.
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Yeah, same here, it was getting tiring.
__________________
"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of."
"For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man
"We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people."
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08-20-2006, 11:22 PM
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#119
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13
Yeah, same here, it was getting tiring.
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yep...i'm glad we closed the door on this thing.
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08-20-2006, 11:25 PM
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#120
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XERXES
yep...i'm glad we closed the door on this thing.
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I concurr (as 5-0 would say). We should have done it sooner.
__________________
"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of."
"For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man
"We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people."
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