Kevin Martin - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dash · 12-17-2010, 01:36 PM

There is no way Houston does that trade. I like Beaubois but that is a bad trade for the Rockets.

fluid.forty.one · 12-17-2010, 01:37 PM

Haywood/Roddy for Martin is moneyyyy. Martin is basically Roddys ceiling and exactly the type of offensive player we need... and we've stockpiled athletic back-up centers so I'm not really worried there.

sefant77 · 12-17-2010, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

and we've stockpiled athletic back-up centers so I'm not really worried there.

Mahinmi and Ajinca will average one foul per minute in the playoff against a great team because they have no standing whatsoever...

Rhylan · 12-17-2010, 01:48 PM

Kevin Martin has never played on a team that was worth a crap. This, combined with absolutely nothing on the defensive end of the floor - and I mean nothing - keeps me from getting too excited about Martin.

For a team that needs somebody desperately to fill the basket, Martin has a lot of value. But Dallas isn't in that position. Could they use him? Absolutely. But under the right circumstances.

He's a guy shooting 44% on a 10-15 team. The one thing he does better than anyone in Dallas right now is get to the FT line.

But it sure makes me nervous. This guy is right there with Shareef Abdur Rahim and Mitch Richmond in terms of good stats on bad teams.

CadBane · 12-17-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhylan

Kevin Martin has never played on a team that was worth a crap. This, combined with absolutely nothing on the defensive end of the floor - and I mean nothing - keeps me from getting too excited about Martin.

For a team that needs somebody desperately to fill the basket, Martin has a lot of value. But Dallas isn't in that position. Could they use him? Absolutely. But under the right circumstances.

He's a guy shooting 44% on a 10-15 team. The one thing he does better than anyone in Dallas right now is get to the FT line.

But it sure makes me nervous. This guy is right there with Shareef Abdur Rahim and Mitch Richmond in terms of good stats on bad teams.

I concur with some of your concerns regarding Martin. But stating that we don't desperately need an offensive player of his caliber is simply not true. The Mavs are currently ranked 16th in the NBA in PPG (not pace adjusted). Our offense is middle of the pack.

We still don't have a second option, and when the playoffs comes, teams are going to double Dirk hard and rely on Kidd, Terry and Butler to beat them with jumpshots. And as we've seen, that aint gonna happen.

I would without a moment's hesitation do Martin for DeShawn (even though he's my 2nd favorite player on the team)/Wood. Roddy would require some thought.

jthig32 · 12-17-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhylan

Kevin Martin has never played on a team that was worth a crap. This, combined with absolutely nothing on the defensive end of the floor - and I mean nothing - keeps me from getting too excited about Martin.

For a team that needs somebody desperately to fill the basket, Martin has a lot of value. But Dallas isn't in that position. Could they use him? Absolutely. But under the right circumstances.

He's a guy shooting 44% on a 10-15 team. The one thing he does better than anyone in Dallas right now is get to the FT line.

But it sure makes me nervous. This guy is right there with Shareef Abdur Rahim and Mitch Richmond in terms of good stats on bad teams.

To me though, the issue of a good scorer on a bad team usually has to do with efficiency and usage. People like Rahim could dominate the ball and score at a poor pace and no one cared because his teams sucked.

I don't really view Martin in the same light because he's such an efficient scorer and a good shooter. I definitely don't see him having an issue fitting into an offense.

Yes his defense is bad, but he doesn't strike me at all as someone that would have a problem fitting into a real offense.

Dirkgreatness · 12-17-2010, 01:48 PM

Huge gamble for the mavs, considering how injury prone both Martin and Chandler are.

fluid.forty.one · 12-17-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkgreatness

Huge gamble for the mavs, considering how injury prone both Martin and Chandler are.

As Roddy sits out the first 25 games with a foot injury...

Dirkgreatness · 12-17-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

As Roddy sits out the first 25 games with a foot injury...

I'm talking about the original trade rumor, with Stevenson.. Plus I would be much more concerned about Chandler going down.

dude1394 · 12-17-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

As Roddy sits out the first 25 games with a foot injury...

Make that 25+ with no timetable of return...

Dirkgreatness · 12-17-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Make that 25+ with no timetable of return...

Whats your point? Kevin Martin is even worse, missing 20+ games is normal season for him.

dude1394 · 12-17-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkgreatness

Whats your point? Kevin Martin is even worse, missing 20+ games is normal season for him.

The point is that it's 20+ games with no timetable. How long are you willing to wait on potential

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-17-2010, 01:50 PM

Rockets fans LOL at the idea

http://bbs.clutchcity.net/showthread...6&page=1&pp=20

I'm thinking this will be another trade rumor that never actually happens.

Underdog · 12-17-2010, 01:54 PM

^^haha, beat ya, Fin!

FINtastic · 12-17-2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

^^haha, beat ya, Fin!

Stealing my thunder, are you? We'll see about that...

92bDad · 12-17-2010, 01:55 PM

Is there any way that JJB could be packaged with Haywood to land Martin...then we wouldn't have the endless JJB love/hate fest...he'd be gone and the Mavs would be better.

young_gunner · 12-17-2010, 01:58 PM

Can kevin martin play some pg?
Just curious... If he can, would haywood+barrea be plausible?..

BGMaverick9 · 12-17-2010, 02:00 PM

Unfortunately, based on today being a gameday...the article will have to sit until tomorrow for MMB.

But I do have a lot of information on this situation from a source familiar to Houston and Dallas' situation. Scouts, masking and desperation....

rabbitproof · 12-17-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Unfortunately, based on today being a gameday...the article will have to sit until tomorrow for MMB.

But I do have a lot of information on this situation from a source familiar to Houston and Dallas' situation. Scouts, masking and desperation....

BOOOOOOO.. release the Krakken!!

dalger · 12-17-2010, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Haywood/Beaubois
for
Kevin Martin

Would you do it?

Not sure about it. All things considered, there's a reason the Rockets could be willing to trade away their best scorer--and it's probably not just the lack of a capable center after Yao's latest injury. Martin is a great and effective scorer, but pretty much nothing else. He's had a lot of injuries in the past and has yet to prove that he can stay healthy over the course of a season. The thing that's still good about Haywood is that he's a great insurance policy considering TC's injury history and another 7-footer to throw at the Lakers with Bynum/Gasol/Odom.

It would be much easier to think about such a deal if we knew what Roddy could or couldn't bring to the table. It's too bad that it's taking him such a long time to recover from that broken foot.

Haywood/Stevenson for Martin is something I would perhaps be willing to do. Still wouldn't like to give away a 7-footer, but the upside is clearly there. Not to mention that Haywood's no longer playing like the guy that we signed to a 5-year contract.

By the way, when your team is 20-5, it's getting really difficult to be supportive of (realistic) trade scenarios...

Underdog · 12-17-2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalger

All things considered, there's a reason the Rockets could be willing to trade away their best scorer--and it's probably not just the lack of a capable center after Yao's latest injury.

I can think of about 35 million reasons a 10-15 team like Houston might want to unload Kevin Martin... Aside from adding a 7-foot center like Haywood, they're probably looking to dump salary so they can rebuild.

Rick41 · 12-17-2010, 02:02 PM

Is there any authenticity for/on how this idea/rumor/speculation even started, other than Fish?

Dirkgreatness · 12-17-2010, 02:02 PM

Plus, Martin is proven to be as brittle as jho. He has not played more than 61 games since the 06-07 season. We don't exactly know how injury prone roddy is, his current injury is kinda of a freak accident.

grndmstr_c · 12-17-2010, 02:06 PM

The Haywood/Stevenson rumor is laughable from Houston's perspective, and Ingram is a douche. That said, I don't at all doubt that the Mavs have a lot of interest in Martin, and I'm sure Houston has had and will continue to have internal discussions about Haywood. The situation bears watching, but I'd be happier to see Booby get healthy and pick up where he left off in the playoffs than I would be to see him get traded away for Martin.

jthig32 · 12-17-2010, 02:08 PM

I can't stop laughing at the idea that someone seriously called Kevin Martin a larger Jason Terry.

Kevin Martin is SECOND IN THE NBA in free throws made per game.

grndmstr_c · 12-17-2010, 02:19 PM

To me, the biggest question about Martin defensively would be whether he can function in the Dallas zone. In theory, his length and quickness (read, recovery ability) would be helpful, even if his slight frame hurts him in man coverage. Certainly, if Dallas acquired him and got rid of Haywood (their best man-to-man defender in the post), you'd think the Mavs would only become more dependent on their zone.

jthig32 · 12-17-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

To me, the biggest question about Martin defensively would be whether he can function in the Dallas zone. In theory, his length and quickness (read, recovery ability) would be helpful, even if his slight frame hurts him in man coverage. Certainly, if Dallas acquired him and got rid of Haywood (their best man-to-man defender in the post), you'd think the Mavs would only become more dependent on their zone.

Now THAT is a good point about defensive impact. I made the observation yesterday that even Haywood is playing with no energy, he still provides noticeably better man defense in the post than Chandler. That's where the defensive worry for me would come from.

LonghornDub · 12-17-2010, 02:22 PM

The fact that this is being publicized now makes me 99.999% certain it will never happen. When's the last time the Mavs (hell, anyone) made a big trade that was publicized more than maybe a few days in advance?

jthig32 · 12-17-2010, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The fact that this is being publicized now makes me 99.999% certain it will never happen. When's the last time the Mavs (hell, anyone) made a big trade that was publicized more than maybe a few days in advance?

This hasn't really been publicized more than "the Rockets like Haywood" and "the Mavs have always liked Martin". Everything else has been pure conjecture, unless I missed something.

And I would say the Butler trade had a long lead up to it with many stories being written about the Mavs' interest in him.

LonghornDub · 12-17-2010, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

This hasn't really been publicized more than "the Rockets like Haywood" and "the Mavs have always liked Martin". Everything else has been pure conjecture, unless I missed something.

And I would say the Butler trade had a long lead up to it with many stories being written about the Mavs' interest in him.

Are you sure? I don't remember that at all, honestly. I remember long-standing discussions that we were definitely going to trade Howard, but I don't think Butler's name was ever mentioned more than just one of several guys we were potentially interested in. It's different when you start singling a guy out as a "target" or a person of interest on his own.

jthig32 · 12-17-2010, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Are you sure? I don't remember that at all, honestly. I remember long-standing discussions that we were definitely going to trade Howard, but I don't think Butler's name was ever mentioned more than just one of several guys we were potentially interested in. It's different when you start singling a guy out as a "target" or a person of interest on his own.

I'm not sure why it's different if he's alone or mentioned with other people. I don't think anyone has said "Martin is the primary target". All that's really been written is that the Mavs are interested. Or even that they have been in the past.

If someone other than Marc Stein was reporting that the Mavs were actively pursuing Martin, then I agree that I would be skeptical.

LonghornDub · 12-17-2010, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm not sure why it's different if he's alone or mentioned with other people. I don't think anyone has said "Martin is the primary target". All that's really been written is that the Mavs are interested. Or even that they have been in the past.

If someone other than Marc Stein was reporting that the Mavs were actively pursuing Martin, then I agree that I would be skeptical.

I'm not "skeptical" that they like him, but I'm definitely skeptical that they'll get him, for several reasons.

And I think there's absolutely a distinction between the media singling out a guy as a target versus mentioning him in a group of potential candidates. Early in the process before the teams are anywhere near an agreement in principle, it hurts Team A's bargaining power if there are media reports talking specifically about their interest in Team B's player. It obviously becomes way less of an issue as you get closer to an agreement, but early on it can be pretty hindering.

If you're trying to acquire something of this value in an arms-length negotiation, you never want the other party reading/hearing third-party sources that say how interested you are. And you seem a lot more interested (even if that's not actually the case) if there are media stories specifically talking about your interest in that player, rather than that player as one of many. I think that's one of the reasons (surely not the only one) why you rarely see trades completed when there were early reports of the team's interest. Those types of reports have a chilling effect on the deal actually getting done.

jthig32 · 12-17-2010, 02:28 PM

Also, if somehow a trade for Martin were to happen (and I think it's highly unlikely) I think the next logical move would be to see if you can move Butler's expiring contract for a backup big man. Preferably a big man that can also play PF as well as center, because if Marion's going to play big minutes at small forward you have to figure out what to do about backup PF.

There's a lot of ripple effects in a lot of these trade scenarios due to how intertwined the Mav rotation is.

SeriousSummer · 12-17-2010, 02:32 PM

I think a deal is possible, but I also think it might have to come as part of a bigger package. Either as a deal also including additional players from Dallas and Houston or as part of a three-way deal.

Haywood/Stevenson/Jones/Ajinca for Martin/Miller works. BTW: Haywood/Beaubois for Martin doesn't meet the salary cap rules.

jthig32 · 12-17-2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

I think a deal is possible, but I also think it might have to come as part of a bigger package. Either as a deal also including additional players from Dallas and Houston or as part of a three-way deal.

Haywood/Stevenson/Jones/Ajinca for Martin/Miller works. BTW: Haywood/Beaubois for Martin doesn't meet the salary cap rules.

Just barely. You could throw in any one of Novak, Cardinal, Ajinca, maybe even Tim Thomas' contract, depending on what happened with that.

I actually looked up Miller's contract earlier. I wonder if they'd want to offload him or if they view him as an asset.

BGMaverick9 · 12-17-2010, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Just barely. You could throw in any one of Novak, Cardinal, Ajinca, maybe even Tim Thomas' contract, depending on what happened with that.

I actually looked up Miller's contract earlier. I wonder if they'd want to offload him or if they view him as an asset.

There is one way for the Mavericks to really absolve themselves of Haywood and not really mess with their center situation in a deal with Houston...it actually makes the Mavericks even more flexible.

jthig32 · 12-17-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

There is one way for the Mavericks to really absolve themselves of Haywood and not really mess with their center situation in a deal with Houston...it actually makes the Mavericks even more flexible.

Well..maybe. I'm not sure how useful centers that can't play defense are to the Mavs. Especially ones that seem to not rebound anymore.

BGMaverick9 · 12-17-2010, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well..maybe. I'm not sure how useful centers that can't play defense are to the Mavs. Especially ones that seem to not rebound anymore.

Money-wise, it works. It's thrusting Ian into the backup role, but it's an insurance policy.

Maybe a new team brings a new outlook...or, worst-case, it's a cruddy player, but one that isn't a malcontent. Chemistry Addition by Talent subtraction.

41mvp · 12-17-2010, 02:52 PM

Haywood/Stevenson/Jones/Ajinca for Martin/Miller No way!!!I want this trade but you know I like Stevenson.He is good defending player we need him in Dallas.
Haywood/Jones/Ajinca/Roddy for Martin/Miler This will be good deal for Houston and for us

tsar · 12-17-2010, 03:09 PM

There's no way I'd do this if it includes Roddy... you can see how high the Rockets fans are on him and would only considering the deal with him in it. They see how lazy and over paid Haywood is as well. This is just a pipe dream.