Break Bank and pay Billips... - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Silk Smoov · 05-17-2007, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelNegro

To sign him assumes he would be willing to give up tens of millions of dollars. This is highly unlikely since by NBA standards he's been underpaid for quite some time now and this offseason represents the best chance he'll ever have to cash in during his entire career.

To trade for him assumes the Pistons are going to be interested in whatever you think the mavs should give up for him. Terry would be the obvious choice on the mavs end, but would the Pistons want him and the bloated contract Cuban gave him last year? The Pistons are going to be flirting with luxury tax land and while you definitely pay lux tax to keep Chauncey Billups around, do you really want to risk paying luxury tax over Jason Terry? Pistons don't need or want Dampier, Howard's BYC so he's hard to trade, Harris doesn't make enough to match salaries. What else is there? Sometimes getting nothing isn't the worst case scenario in a transaction so the Pistons aren't going to take garbage and a bunch of salary cap dead weight just to say they didn't let Billups get away for nothing. They'd just let him walk and go get another PG in free agency.

Basically, Billups is a pipe dream. He likes Detroit, Detroit likes him, and Detroit can pay him. He's going to sign a big money deal to stay there.

Yeah, I agree that it is a pipe dream, but the rumor mill is pretty high here about getting Billups. I dont know if we will get him, but stranger things have happened. The thing about the potential trade is this? Billups can walk away from the Pistons and the Pistons get nothing in return. Or the Pistons can try to get something back. The issue here is that all teams know that the Pistons are in a tough spot, so I dont see teams offering too much for Billups as well.

As far as the salary match, Billups does not have a salary if he opts out. Lets say that he wants to leave the Pistons and thinks the Mavs is a great spot. He could then, now I am not an expert on this, but lets say that he agrees to a 1 year deal with a player option to be traded to the Mavs. Billups could accept the MLE for one year, and let the Mavs match that or any salary to get Harris. Pistons get a good PG back, and is not locked into a big contract with Harris. I know this is a stretch, but I am just pointing out something that could/maybe happen.

I agree that sometimes getting nothing in return is best, but if the Pistons lose Billups then they are very short on the PG spot, and nothing is really out there in free agency in that spot. Maybe a Brevin Knight.

jthig32 · 05-17-2007, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

As far as the salary match, Billups does not have a salary if he opts out. Lets say that he wants to leave the Pistons and thinks the Mavs is a great spot. He could then, now I am not an expert on this, but lets say that he agrees to a 1 year deal with a player option to be traded to the Mavs. Billups could accept the MLE for one year, and let the Mavs match that or any salary to get Harris. Pistons get a good PG back, and is not locked into a big contract with Harris. I know this is a stretch, but I am just pointing out something that could/maybe happen.

First of all, this is NOT what you were talking about when you opened this thread.

Second, this is a LUDICROUS "possibility", and I use that term very loosely.

Do you really think Billups would opt out of his contract and take LESS money than what he would have gotten in Detroit? That's so insane. Do you realize there are reports out of Milwaukee that they are gearing up to offer him a MAX contract, or something very close to it?

And if Billups DID decide to take so little money, he could simply sign for that tiny amount in Dallas, not do a sign and trade for Harris.

If Billups does a sign and trade, the entire POINT will be to get more money than the MLE, at which point you're talking about sending significant contracts back, probably starting with Terry.

Just for the record, I don't necessarily think it's a ridiculous notion to think the Mavs could somehow get Billups. If things go poorly this seasos, maybe we COULD work out a sign and trade. But we won't have gotten him because Cubes just decided to "break the bank" and sign him outright, and it won't be without sending significant players and contract to Detroit.

That's the point of this thread.

DelNegro · 05-17-2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Yeah, I agree that it is a pipe dream, but the rumor mill is pretty high here about getting Billups. I dont know if we will get him, but stranger things have happened. The thing about the potential trade is this? Billups can walk away from the Pistons and the Pistons get nothing in return. Or the Pistons can try to get something back. The issue here is that all teams know that the Pistons are in a tough spot, so I dont see teams offering too much for Billups as well.

Say Jerry Stackhouse decides he just has to be a Knick and the Knicks are willing to pay him more than the MLE. The knicks and Stackhouse come to the mavs and say "Stack's defnitiely leaving, but we'd agree to a Stackhouse for Jerome James sign and trade deal". Do you A) take Jerome James because you don't want Stack walking away for nothing, or B) let Stack walk because you've got no use for Jerome James?

Quote:

As far as the salary match, Billups does not have a salary if he opts out. Lets say that he wants to leave the Pistons and thinks the Mavs is a great spot. He could then, now I am not an expert on this, but lets say that he agrees to a 1 year deal with a player option to be traded to the Mavs. Billups could accept the MLE for one year, and let the Mavs match that or any salary to get Harris. Pistons get a good PG back, and is not locked into a big contract with Harris. I know this is a stretch, but I am just pointing out something that could/maybe happen.

You are correct that if Billups opts out he does not have a salary because he'd be a free agent. However, you can't trade free agents. The mechanism is called sign-and-trade because the Pistons would first have to sign Billups to whatever contract the Mavs wanted to pay him and then trade him. Once they sign him though he then has a salary that now needs to be matched in order for the trade to work under the rules.

Billups could take the MLE for one year, but the Mavs wouldn't have full-bird rights on him for 3 years meaning that he wouldn't be able to make more than the MLE for 3 years. Three years down the road Billups won't be able to command anything near the money that he can get right now, so he'd be forfeiting a bunch of cash to do that.

Quote:

I agree that sometimes getting nothing in return is best, but if the Pistons lose Billups then they are very short on the PG spot, and nothing is really out there in free agency in that spot. Maybe a Brevin Knight.

Chucky Atkins, Steve Blake, Mo Williams, Charlie Bell, Gary Payton. Sure, not a very exciting list, but the Pistons also have the #15 pick in the draft so maybe Mike Conley or Acie Law are there. In any event they're not necessarily stuck having to accept a bad sign&trade deal just to get a PG.

mary · 05-16-2007, 06:27 PM

Anyone that thinks Chauncey effing Billups will accept the MLE, is just cluttering up the gene pool of mankind.

At first Cuban was going to "break the bank", and now you have a perennial All-star earning the MLE.

Very nice.

jthig32 · 05-16-2007, 06:34 PM

*sigh*

It's really, really said.

Quote:

Here you just twisted my words, because clearly you said "As if". I did not say anything about any "obstable". I said break the bank. That can mean alot of different things, so dont put words in my mouth. I am clearly talking about Cuban reaching into his pockets a little deeper.

HE CAN'T REACH INTO HIS POCKETS ANY DEEPER THAN THE MLE. MY GOD MAN!

The bottom line is, you're trying desperately to weasle out of this. You starting to talk about a possible sign and trade, things of that nature. The reality is this:

When you opened this thread, you believed that the only thing keeping Cuban from signing a big free agent was the luxury tax penalty. You had no knowledge of the hard NBA cap and how it worked. You could easily have simply said so, and admitted your mess up. But instead you went into attack mode, accusing other people of not knowing what they were talking about.

You're proving yourself to have the social skills of a 7 year old, sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to listen.

Now you start talking about the complicated salary mess, spinning and twisting (just like you did when you were known as CreditExpert), trying to divert from the point.

There's nothing complicated about it. The Mavs have the MLE and LLE exception to spend. Outside of a trade, there is no possiblity of Cuban "breaking the bank".

dalmations202 · 05-16-2007, 06:45 PM

Hey, can I "break the bank" to buy a new Hummer that gets 50mpg city and costs only $5,000 American dollars.

If I can, then I'm all in to "break the bank" as well.

jthig32 · 05-16-2007, 06:46 PM

I think I need to take a break from this thread for a while, or I'm going to stroke out.

capitalcity · 05-16-2007, 06:47 PM

untitled · 05-16-2007, 07:37 PM

V2M · 05-16-2007, 08:54 PM

Mary is a genius... she resolved one of the longest standing mysteries on this board of "whatever happened to creditexpert?"

nashtymavsfan13 · 05-16-2007, 10:16 PM

nvm

Tokey41 · 05-16-2007, 10:36 PM

Does anyone think Dumars would ever do that? Even if Billups wanted to play in Dallas (which he probably doesn't, he's the man on a good team right now), I don't think Joe would do a trade because we have nothing to trade.

bobatundi · 05-16-2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Does anyone think Dumars would ever do that? Even if Billups wanted to play in Dallas (which he probably doesn't, he's the man on a good team right now), I don't think Joe would do a trade because we have nothing to trade.

All we have to do is break the bank and we can sign him as a free agent--haven't you been reading this thread?

bernardos70 · 05-17-2007, 01:41 AM

Wow, this thread's GREAT. But we ARE depriving some small village of its idiot.

Just nod in agreement, and it'll ALL be over.

Yes cred.....err, Silk Smoov, you ARE right sir. I for one believe Mark Cuban WILL break the bank to sign Billips.

EDIT: Why the hell break the bank anyway? What did it EVER do to you to elicit such violent action? I say leave the bank be......

Silk Smoov · 05-17-2007, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

Wow, this thread's GREAT. But we ARE depriving some small village of its idiot.

Just nod in agreement, and it'll ALL be over.

Yes cred.....err, Silk Smoov, you ARE right sir. I for one believe Mark Cuban WILL break the bank to sign Billips.

EDIT: Why the hell break the bank anyway? What did it EVER do to you to elicit such violent action? I say leave the bank be......

It was a personal attack from Mary. All of a sudden she called me a credit guy, and the lynch mob started. I have never seen grown people act like that. It makes me think that maybe this board is full of kids playing on the computer. I guess some of them are not smart enough to know that I am the poster Silk Smoov and nothing else. If I wasnt then I guess I would be banned for being the credit guy. I dont know why they would not think the same

As of matter of fact, this Mary poster has given me negative rep since I been here, and that makes it personal. I am starting to wonder if this Mary person is in love with Dirk.

It is real easy to see its personal, because my thread said something about Cuban breaking the bank to sign Billups. What does that have to do with any stupid remarks that Mary and company given me? Nothing. I could easily chop up many posts by them as well, but I dont, because it is no need to. You either ignore it or just post a logical reply back w/o insults. Actually these actions from Mary is harrasment. I have sent several messages on looking into this. Right now I just put Mary on ignore and all her messages say hidden.

This message is hidden because mary is on your ignore list.

mary · 05-17-2007, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreditXpert2003

It was a personal attack from Mary. All of a sudden she called me a credit guy, and the lynch mob started. I have never seen grown people act like that. It makes me think that maybe this board is full of kids playing on the computer. I guess some of them are not smart enough to know that I am the poster Silk Smoov and nothing else. If I wasnt then I guess I would be banned for being the credit guy. I dont know why they would not think the same

As of matter of fact, this Mary poster has given me negative rep since I been here, and that makes it personal. I am starting to wonder if this Mary person is in love with Dirk.

It is real easy to see its personal, because my thread said something about Cuban breaking the bank to sign Billups. What does that have to do with any stupid remarks that Mary and company given me? Nothing. I could easier chop up many posts by them as well, but I dont, because it is no need to. You either ignore it or just post a logical reply back with insults. Actually these actions from Mary is harrasment. I have sent several messages on looking into this. Right now I just put Mary on ignore and all her messages say hidden.

Nice try, but the text of my last negative rep was "MIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

That's hardly a "personal attack".

Your initial post was completely and utterly impossible, given the restrictions of the CBA. The posters in this thread have been MORE than patient with you in explaining the spending restrictions that Cuban faces. You seem to have trouble dealing with this - so who is the one exhibiting a lack of maturity here?

Plus, I don't think I've given you more than two..maybe three negative reps - four if you count your Basketball 501 days.

You can deny your previous account all you want, but the similarities are too much to ignore.

Smells like a duck, walks like a duck, posts like a duck......

NewMexiMav · 05-17-2007, 08:05 AM

i thinc slik smooth has sum gud pointz. I meen, Cuban's got lost and lost of money in the banc, rite? Juzt giv it all to Billips and Mavz win the tittle!

mary · 05-17-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreditXpert2003

I have never seen grown people act like that. It makes me think that maybe this board is full of kids playing on the computer.

Yeah, you've issued the "kids" line before.

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showth...ids#post621416

jthig32 · 05-17-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

Yeah, you've issued the "kids" line before.

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showth...ids#post621416

Aaah, memories.

BTW, after reading most of that thread, there's absolutely no question that they're the same poster. No question.

Silk Smoov · 05-17-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Aaah, memories.

BTW, after reading most of that thread, there's absolutely no question that they're the same poster. No question.

You indeed are clueless and you let Mary suck you in on her antics. I have given you the benefit of doubt that you were not and just poking fun in some sort of way, but Mary is cunning and you believe her/him. This is very sad. I see now that Mary is the so called expert here and when she feels dangered by someone speaking basketball talk so puts them in the boat as past posters.

My background has been checked by a couple of Mods and DJ. I am not here to brag or be better than anyone. I just post because I love the Mavs and sometimes I try to pass on some information that I have or get. Nothing else.

jthig32 · 05-17-2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

You indeed are clueless and you let Mary suck you in on her antics. I have given you the benefit of doubt that you were not and just poking fun in some sort of way, but Mary is cunning and you believe her/him. This is very sad. I see now that Mary is the so called expert here and when she feels dangered by someone speaking basketball talk so puts them in the boat as past posters.

My background has been checked by a couple of Mods and DJ. I am not here to brag or be better than anyone. I just post because I love the Mavs and sometimes I try to pass on some information that I have or get. Nothing else.

The bold part made me giggle....

Why would Mods and DJ himself "background check" you?

mary · 05-17-2007, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The bold part made me giggle....

Why would Mods and DJ himself "background check" you?

Yeah, DJ has someone pulling DMV reports for all suspicious posters.

Hee!

Silk Smoov · 05-17-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The bold part made me giggle....

Why would Mods and DJ himself "background check" you?

We are not talking background checks, but them knowing who I am, and how I have some information that I share with us all here sometimes. Nothing else.

bernardos70 · 05-17-2007, 11:12 AM

Silk Smoov:

I agree with whatever point you are trying to make.

mary · 05-17-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreditXpert2003

I feel that Cuban did NOT open the bank at all.

Maybe he went on Sunday and the bank was closed.

Plus, its probably the responsibility of bank employees to "open the bank".

I know Cuban's a rich guy and all, but I doubt he has that kind of power.

Mr. Fargo isn't just going to hand him a key.

mary · 05-17-2007, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreditXpert2003

Finding a way to get Billups is going have him break open the bank. Dont know how it will happen, but if we get Billups our team salary is going to increase.

Outside of the players and owners renegotiating the current CBA, or a sign and trade, it has zero chance of happening.

Yep.

124 posts later, and the answer is still the same.

nashtymavsfan13 · 05-17-2007, 03:24 PM

Cuban can't spend more money than the MLE and LLE due to salary cap rules. He has no choice. He can't just decide to spend more and get Billups, it's not possible given the salary cap rules. How hard is this to understand?

mary · 05-17-2007, 06:10 PM

DelNegro definitely deserves some "extra credit" for getting through CEXPT's massively thick skull.

I would just like to know which part of that explanation is unknown to "mist people".

Silk Smoov · 05-17-2007, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

DelNegro definitely deserves some "extra credit" for getting through CEXPT's massively thick skull.

I would just like to know which part of that explanation is unknown to "mist people".

Strike 3 Mary..I have asked you very nicely to lay off the insults and reputation comments with your negative rep you have given me, and also putting other poster name into my posts, which make it seem like I am someone else. I am pretty sure you will be getting a message from someone soon..

Please note the changes made to the D-M.com Community Standards regarding harrassment and the reputation system (changes in bold):

Harassment -- Harassment occurs when a member insults, attacks, and denigrates another member at any time. Harassment also occurs when one member sends Reputation comments to another member after being placed on the receiving member's Ignore list. Even though we realize that sports discussions can get intense, we have zero tolerance for taking an argument about a sports topic to a personal level. For instance, the use of terms such as "idiot, moron, stupid" and other derogatory terms constitutes harassment. Harassment not only includes individuals but also can apply to insults against others teams, players and groups of Dallas-Mavs.com members. Repeated critical, condescending and/or sarcastic posts toward a forum member can also constitute harassment. The inclusion of board members usernames in ones signature constitutes harassment as well.

Such harrassment will NOT BE TOLERATED and those who violate this policy will receive warnings/strikes in accordance with our 4-Strike Policy. NO EXCEPTIONS!

mary · 05-17-2007, 06:29 PM

I thought you had me on ignore.

Another lie.

What were my reputation comments again???? Are you SURE they contained a personal insult? Care to cut and paste them?

Do you honestly think I'm going to get banned for giving you TWO WHOLE negative reps in TWO days?

Do you think you have the authority to issue WARNINGS or STRIKES?

Don't expect me to back down based on your stupid threats (its not the first time I've seen you do this).

A MOD may indeed to tell me to "layoff" - and when/if they do, I'll be happy to oblige.

But let's get one thing straight.

It is blatantly OBVIOUS, you are the former CreditXpert2003. Anyone that spends 15 minutes reading your former posts can see that. I don't expect you to accept responsibility for this. But your denials won't change the fact that you've been exposed.

Personally, I find the whole situation pretty funny.

P.S. Don't think I've forgotten your heinously bigoted remarks in the political forum.

P.S.S. Thanks again for providing us with some mindless entertainment!

untitled · 05-17-2007, 07:29 PM

Personally, I think the answer is obvious:

Silk Smoov is a graduate student in one of CreditXpert's Basketball 501 classes at Baylor.

V2M · 05-17-2007, 08:00 PM

^ He's the professor himself...

chumdawg · 05-17-2007, 11:25 PM

There's actually one avenue here that you guys have not fully explored yet.

Let's say that Milwaukee--or whoever else...I've just heard Milwaukee mentioned in this thread--offers Billups a max, or "near max" deal.

Let's say that Detroit would love to keep Billups, but decides that they can't afford that "near max" deal. (Just like the Mavs with Nash in '04.)

But let's say that the Pistons would be interested in a sign-and-trade. It's not necessarily the dollars that the Pistons balk at, it's the dollars for that specific single player. (Again, just like the Mavericks in '04).

So let's say the Pistons ask the Bucks if they will do a sign-and-trade, and the Bucks say no. It's take it or leave it. (Like the Suns did in '04.)

At this point the Pistons can pay the freight--which they don't want to pay--or they can watch Billups walk for nothing. Not a good situation to be in. (Like the Mavs were in back in '04.)

But then Cuban calls and says, we'll do a sign-and-trade with you.

A-ha! Now we have the groundwork for a deal. The Pistons don't want to give a max contract to one single player, but they may have interest in acquiring assets at a matching salary--several assets, which can be handled separately and perhaps parlayed to the Pistons' good.

In this scenario, the Mavs step in and replace the Bucks' "we won't sign and trade" with a "we will sign and trade." If the Mavs have enough to offer, they can conceivably make it happen.

On that basis, it's not "entirely impossible" that the Mavs could "break the bank" for Billups. They could very well end up with Billups at a max contract if they so desired and if they could offer Detroit what they wanted to make it happen.

jthig32 · 05-17-2007, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

There's actually one avenue here that you guys have not fully explored yet.

Let's say that Milwaukee--or whoever else...I've just heard Milwaukee mentioned in this thread--offers Billups a max, or "near max" deal.

Let's say that Detroit would love to keep Billups, but decides that they can't afford that "near max" deal. (Just like the Mavs with Nash in '04.)

But let's say that the Pistons would be interested in a sign-and-trade. It's not necessarily the dollars that the Pistons balk at, it's the dollars for that specific single player. (Again, just like the Mavericks in '04).

So let's say the Pistons ask the Bucks if they will do a sign-and-trade, and the Bucks say no. It's take it or leave it. (Like the Suns did in '04.)

At this point the Pistons can pay the freight--which they don't want to pay--or they can watch Billups walk for nothing. Not a good situation to be in. (Like the Mavs were in back in '04.)

But then Cuban calls and says, we'll do a sign-and-trade with you.

A-ha! Now we have the groundwork for a deal. The Pistons don't want to give a max contract to one single player, but they may have interest in acquiring assets at a matching salary--several assets, which can be handled separately and perhaps parlayed to the Pistons' good.

In this scenario, the Mavs step in and replace the Bucks' "we won't sign and trade" with a "we will sign and trade." If the Mavs have enough to offer, they can conceivably make it happen.

On that basis, it's not "entirely impossible" that the Mavs could "break the bank" for Billups. They could very well end up with Billups at a max contract if they so desired and if they could offer Detroit what they wanted to make it happen.

If you'll read up in the thread, I stated that it was not completely out of the question that we could aquire Billups by a sign and trade.

But a sign and trade is not really, "breaking the bank", as Smoove stated he thought would happen. Based on Smoove's opening post, it's obvious he thought we could just go give Billups a max contract, or something close to it. He never mentioned a trade.

That what all this is about. I don't think anyone has said it's completely impossible that the Mavs could get Billups. As I said, I laid out the possibility of a sign and trade earlier in the thread.

chumdawg · 05-17-2007, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

If you'll read up in the thread, I stated that it was not completely out of the question that we could aquire Billups by a sign and trade.

But a sign and trade is not really, "breaking the bank", as Smoove stated he thought would happen. Based on Smoove's opening post, it's obvious he thought we could just go give Billups a max contract, or something close to it. He never mentioned a trade.

That what all this is about. I don't think anyone has said it's completely impossible that the Mavs could get Billups. As I said, I laid out the possibility of a sign and trade earlier in the thread.

I noticed that you said that. That's true. But I also noticed that other people used language like "100% impossible," or something like that, that Billups could end up here.

I'll agree that it's highly unlikely that Billups ends up here. Yet, I also see how it could happen. And I also think that giving Billups a max contract would be tantamount to "breaking the bank."

Silk Smoov · 05-18-2007, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I noticed that you said that. That's true. But I also noticed that other people used language like "100% impossible," or something like that, that Billups could end up here.

I'll agree that it's highly unlikely that Billups ends up here. Yet, I also see how it could happen. And I also think that giving Billups a max contract would be tantamount to "breaking the bank."

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to chumdawg again.

Silk Smoov · 05-18-2007, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

There's actually one avenue here that you guys have not fully explored yet.

Let's say that Milwaukee--or whoever else...I've just heard Milwaukee mentioned in this thread--offers Billups a max, or "near max" deal.

Let's say that Detroit would love to keep Billups, but decides that they can't afford that "near max" deal. (Just like the Mavs with Nash in '04.)

But let's say that the Pistons would be interested in a sign-and-trade. It's not necessarily the dollars that the Pistons balk at, it's the dollars for that specific single player. (Again, just like the Mavericks in '04).

So let's say the Pistons ask the Bucks if they will do a sign-and-trade, and the Bucks say no. It's take it or leave it. (Like the Suns did in '04.)

At this point the Pistons can pay the freight--which they don't want to pay--or they can watch Billups walk for nothing. Not a good situation to be in. (Like the Mavs were in back in '04.)

But then Cuban calls and says, we'll do a sign-and-trade with you.

A-ha! Now we have the groundwork for a deal. The Pistons don't want to give a max contract to one single player, but they may have interest in acquiring assets at a matching salary--several assets, which can be handled separately and perhaps parlayed to the Pistons' good.

In this scenario, the Mavs step in and replace the Bucks' "we won't sign and trade" with a "we will sign and trade." If the Mavs have enough to offer, they can conceivably make it happen.

On that basis, it's not "entirely impossible" that the Mavs could "break the bank" for Billups. They could very well end up with Billups at a max contract if they so desired and if they could offer Detroit what they wanted to make it happen.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to chumdawg again.

MavsX · 05-18-2007, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

There's actually one avenue here that you guys have not fully explored yet.

Let's say that Milwaukee--or whoever else...I've just heard Milwaukee mentioned in this thread--offers Billups a max, or "near max" deal.

Let's say that Detroit would love to keep Billups, but decides that they can't afford that "near max" deal. (Just like the Mavs with Nash in '04.)

But let's say that the Pistons would be interested in a sign-and-trade. It's not necessarily the dollars that the Pistons balk at, it's the dollars for that specific single player. (Again, just like the Mavericks in '04).

So let's say the Pistons ask the Bucks if they will do a sign-and-trade, and the Bucks say no. It's take it or leave it. (Like the Suns did in '04.)

At this point the Pistons can pay the freight--which they don't want to pay--or they can watch Billups walk for nothing. Not a good situation to be in. (Like the Mavs were in back in '04.)

But then Cuban calls and says, we'll do a sign-and-trade with you.

A-ha! Now we have the groundwork for a deal. The Pistons don't want to give a max contract to one single player, but they may have interest in acquiring assets at a matching salary--several assets, which can be handled separately and perhaps parlayed to the Pistons' good.

In this scenario, the Mavs step in and replace the Bucks' "we won't sign and trade" with a "we will sign and trade." If the Mavs have enough to offer, they can conceivably make it happen.

On that basis, it's not "entirely impossible" that the Mavs could "break the bank" for Billups. They could very well end up with Billups at a max contract if they so desired and if they could offer Detroit what they wanted to make it happen.

GENIUS!!!!!!

DelNegro · 05-18-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

There's actually one avenue here that you guys have not fully explored yet.

Let's say that Milwaukee--or whoever else...I've just heard Milwaukee mentioned in this thread--offers Billups a max, or "near max" deal.

Let's say that Detroit would love to keep Billups, but decides that they can't afford that "near max" deal. (Just like the Mavs with Nash in '04.)

But let's say that the Pistons would be interested in a sign-and-trade. It's not necessarily the dollars that the Pistons balk at, it's the dollars for that specific single player. (Again, just like the Mavericks in '04).

So let's say the Pistons ask the Bucks if they will do a sign-and-trade, and the Bucks say no. It's take it or leave it. (Like the Suns did in '04.)

At this point the Pistons can pay the freight--which they don't want to pay--or they can watch Billups walk for nothing. Not a good situation to be in. (Like the Mavs were in back in '04.)

But then Cuban calls and says, we'll do a sign-and-trade with you.

A-ha! Now we have the groundwork for a deal. The Pistons don't want to give a max contract to one single player, but they may have interest in acquiring assets at a matching salary--several assets, which can be handled separately and perhaps parlayed to the Pistons' good.

In this scenario, the Mavs step in and replace the Bucks' "we won't sign and trade" with a "we will sign and trade." If the Mavs have enough to offer, they can conceivably make it happen.

On that basis, it's not "entirely impossible" that the Mavs could "break the bank" for Billups. They could very well end up with Billups at a max contract if they so desired and if they could offer Detroit what they wanted to make it happen.

It's plausible, but if Billups decides he wants to be a Buck he can just go there and that's that. The Bucks don't need the Pistons assistance in offering Billups big money like the Mavs do.

But lets assume that Billups is just using the Bucks for leverage into getting a bigger deal out of Detroit or Dallas. If Detroit balks at the price to keep Billups, they'd still have to accept taking on salary close to that amount in order to sign and trade him because both Detroit and Dallas are over the cap and need to match salaries. So if Detroit doesn't want to pay near max money to keep Billups, what player, or combination of players on the Mavs' roster is Detroit going to be okay with paying similar money too? There really isn't anyone.

dalmations202 · 05-18-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

There's actually one avenue here that you guys have not fully explored yet.

Let's say that Milwaukee--or whoever else...I've just heard Milwaukee mentioned in this thread--offers Billups a max, or "near max" deal.

Let's say that Detroit would love to keep Billups, but decides that they can't afford that "near max" deal. (Just like the Mavs with Nash in '04.)

But let's say that the Pistons would be interested in a sign-and-trade. It's not necessarily the dollars that the Pistons balk at, it's the dollars for that specific single player. (Again, just like the Mavericks in '04).

So let's say the Pistons ask the Bucks if they will do a sign-and-trade, and the Bucks say no. It's take it or leave it. (Like the Suns did in '04.)

At this point the Pistons can pay the freight--which they don't want to pay--or they can watch Billups walk for nothing. Not a good situation to be in. (Like the Mavs were in back in '04.)

But then Cuban calls and says, we'll do a sign-and-trade with you.

A-ha! Now we have the groundwork for a deal. The Pistons don't want to give a max contract to one single player, but they may have interest in acquiring assets at a matching salary--several assets, which can be handled separately and perhaps parlayed to the Pistons' good.

In this scenario, the Mavs step in and replace the Bucks' "we won't sign and trade" with a "we will sign and trade." If the Mavs have enough to offer, they can conceivably make it happen.

On that basis, it's not "entirely impossible" that the Mavs could "break the bank" for Billups. They could very well end up with Billups at a max contract if they so desired and if they could offer Detroit what they wanted to make it happen.

This still doesn't even come close to my definition of break the bank. Yes, under certain circumstances the Mavs could do a SNT with Detroit. But to do this the Mavs must lose players close to the contract that Billups would sign, and the trading must be done with Detroit -- ie Dumars gets to be involved. Also, let's just agree up front that Billups doesn't take the MLE, so the Mavs cannot just sign him outright.

76. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

Under no circumstances can a team sign and then trade another team's free agent. But there is a rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under the sign-and-trade rule, the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract which stipulates that the contract is invalid if the player's rights are not traded to the specific team within 48 hours.

No other team can just SNT him only the Pistons. Any team under the Salary cap by the amount that he would sign for... ie close to max, can sign him. Not the teams under the luxury cap, the ones under the salary cap. IE their are only a few (I think 4 ) teams actually far enough under the cap at this time. These are the only teams that can sign Billups to a FA deal....those and the Pistons. The Pistons using his Bird rights can sign him to any salary they want, including going well over the luxury tax. The Pistons have the right to trade him within 48 hrs to any team, provided that the Pistons will take back within 125% of the amount of salary for the first year of the trade. If Billups signs for say 70 million over 5 years, starting at 12 million with an increase of 1mill every year, then the Pistons would have to take back 9.6m in salary for next year minimum.

Net increase in salary -- 12 - 9.6 = 2.4M Now 2.4M would more than break my bank account, but I don't think that amount is party money during his single days for Cuban.
So although he could be acquired, lets face it, it wouldn't break the bank.

Now, let's go with the odds.
Billups takes the MLE -- 1 in forget it too many 0's.
Billups signs with one of the few teams under the cap --- 1 in 200
Billups convinces Detroit to do a SNT -- 1 in 80
Billups convinces Detroit to do a SNT - Detroit decides to take back close to max salary because they can gain players/picks, Dallas is the team that offers the best players/picks/salary structure, and somehow the best team in the east and the best team in the west want to break up core players --- 1 in too many 0's.
Billups signs with the Pistons and they just pay the tax. --- 1 in 2

Possible yes -- I really think that the odds are better that we are involved in a nuclear war with Iran and their is no NBA season, than Billups ending up in Dallas next year - although I must agree it is a possibility no matter how unlikely.

Good reading for novices on the Salary cap:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

Oh yea, I'm about 40 as well, and Silk it would have been much easier to just admit you were wrong up front than make this into a long thread about something that odds are against ever happening.