Postgame Thread: Mavs extend the Magic's streak - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

tcat075 · 12-22-2010, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

A physics lesson from the Magic announcers, after Hedo's missed dunk in the 4th: "He was pushed in the back by Nowitzki and Kidd. That's why the dunk was short."

Science.

Push --->

Dunk.....^
..............|

Hmm...

chumdawg · 12-22-2010, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Picturing it now, I like the Mavs' chances much better to steal a Game 1 or 2 in SA or LA than to win both of the first two at home against either of those teams. Either way you're 1-1, but the difference in momentum is huge.

To provide anecdotal evidence, the Mavs went into San Antonio in 2003 and won the first game (the infamous 49/50 free throw game), yet lost the series.

fluid.forty.one · 12-22-2010, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Picturing it now, I like the Mavs' chances much better to steal a Game 1 or 2 in SA or LA than to win both of the first two at home against either of those teams. Either way you're 1-1, but the difference in momentum is huge.

I've always felt that way about the first 4 games.

LonghornDub · 12-22-2010, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

And the strong majority of those go to the home team.

Correlation/causation. The home team wins the majority of playoff series overall not necessarily because having home court advantage through 4-6 games is a significant boost, but because the team with home court is generally the superior team. Hell, that statistic is skewed by the 5-6 first round playoff series every year that aren't even close to evenly matched. You could switch the home court in all those series and it wouldn't matter.

Look, I'm not saying home court is a bad thing, I'm just saying I'm not sure I want this team to be the favorite going into the playoffs. The last time they performed even close to expectations as a favorite was the 2006 WCF.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

To provide anecdotal evidence, the Mavs went into San Antonio in 2003 and won the first game (the infamous 49/50 free throw game), yet lost the series.

I'm sure we could find endless examples of a team stealing Games 1 or 2 on the road and then losing the series. I'm clearly not saying it somehow guarantees a series victory.

But for what it's worth, you know as well as I do that the Mavs probably win that series if Dirk doesn't miss most of it.

chumdawg · 12-22-2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Correlation/causation. The home team wins the majority of playoff series overall not necessarily because having home court advantage through 4-6 games is a significant boost, but because the team with home court is generally the superior team. Hell, that statistic is skewed by the 5-6 first round playoff series every year that aren't even close to evenly matched. You could switch the home court in all those series and it wouldn't matter.

Look, I'm not saying home court is a bad thing, I'm just saying I'm not sure I want this team to be the favorite going into the playoffs. The last time they performed even close to expectations as a favorite was the 2006 WCF.

I'm not sure you can so easily chalk it up to correlation and (not) causation. Yeah, it is doubtless true that the 1 seed is going to beat the 8 seed usually no matter who has the home court. But in the more everyday circumstances, getting out to that good start at home, or having that Game 5 at your place, may well be worth something. I don't think it's a coin toss, in other words. I think there is a pretty big advantage in the NBA to having the home court in your playoff series.

LonghornDub · 12-22-2010, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm not sure you can so easily chalk it up to correlation and (not) causation. Yeah, it is doubtless true that the 1 seed is going to beat the 8 seed usually no matter who has the home court. But in the more everyday circumstances, getting out to that good start at home, or having that Game 5 at your place, may well be worth something. I don't think it's a coin toss, in other words. I think there is a pretty big advantage in the NBA to having the home court in your playoff series.

We just disagree there fundamentally, then. I think home court in any single game is a very nice advantage (even for teams that allegedly may be better on the road). If you give me a Game 7 at my place or yours, I'm obviously picking mine every time. But I have felt for a long time it's not that big of a deal over the course of a series, most of which don't even go 7.

And I don't think it's at all limited to 1/8 matchups. We had some excellent parity in the West last year, but in your average playoff year I think you can easily switch the home court in the 1/8, 2/7 and sometimes even the 3/6 matchup and it doesn't change the ultimate outcome. I certainly feel that way about the East last year.

And in some instances I think it would actually help to not have the first two games at home. For example (and with the benefit of hindsight), I think the Mavs would';ve been more likely to beat the Warriors. Avery makes that dumbass lineup change and we drop Game 1 on the road, it's not such a big deal. Dropping it at home, on the other hand, causes a very negative mental impact.

Of course, all of this is just a gut feel on my part, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

chumdawg · 12-22-2010, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

We just disagree there fundamentally, then. I think home court in any single game is a very nice advantage (even for teams that allegedly may be better on the road). If you give me a Game 7 at my place or yours, I'm obviously picking mine every time. But I have felt for a long time it's not that big of a deal over the course of a series, most of which don't even go 7.

And I don't think it's at all limited to 1/8 matchups. We had some excellent parity in the West last year, but in your average playoff year I think you can easily switch the home court in the 1/8, 2/7 and sometimes even the 3/6 matchup and it doesn't change the ultimate outcome. I certainly feel that way about the East last year.

And in some instances I think it would actually help to not have the first two games at home. For example (and with the benefit of hindsight), I think the Mavs would';ve been more likely to beat the Warriors. Avery makes that dumbass lineup change and we drop Game 1 on the road, it's not such a big deal. Dropping it at home, on the other hand, causes a very negative mental impact.

Of course, all of this is just a gut feel on my part, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

What you are missing in your analysis is Game Five. Yeah, it would be nice to be Avery and dumb shit up in the first couple games, with time to figure it out later. But that time does indeed come. When you are looking at best two-out-of-three to figure out the series, based on large part on your highly idiotic handling of the first four games...well, trust me...you would a whole lot better like for the first two (and not the one) of those games to be on your home court.

Your notion is romantic, and for that reason not without interest, but it holds no water. No team that is the better would actually give the homecourt advantage as a ploy.

quietsavant · 12-22-2010, 01:10 AM

My summary of the Florida sweep:
http://4ptsplay.blogspot.com/2010/12...its-sweep.html

5 days, no Mavs Basketball, what to do ? Guess Lakeshow-Heat on christmas

dude1394 · 12-22-2010, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

It kind of sucks that we are on pace for 67 wins right now, and yet we are still 1.5 games back in our division.

No doubt about it. No matter who they have been playing..it kinda sucks. But the mavs need to play against themselves and just keep that D going and getting better. The rest will take care of itself.

dude1394 · 12-22-2010, 01:14 AM

Avery was an idiot...it's been proven.

fluid.forty.one · 12-22-2010, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

5 days, no Mavs Basketball

dude1394 · 12-22-2010, 01:20 AM

Ah screw em..I want the mavs to win the rest of their games this season...I don't give a durn what seed we wind up, just keep getting better and better...Let's lace 'em up and go at it.

quietsavant · 12-22-2010, 01:29 AM

A little part of me is hoping the Spurs run the table till the 30th and come in on a streak; little chance of it though, DEN ORL LAL before the 30th. Something's gotta give

Budapest Maverick · 12-22-2010, 01:39 AM

Absolute homer announcers, ahhhhhh, they were annoying. "Kidd just looks old. Swish..." "He has big numbers, 12 points 6 rebounds, 12 assists, you would think he's having a great game, but not, that's a quiet game". LMAO. I loved Kidd's play tonight. He was posting&toasting, got to the lane, made some big shots, he was just awesome. POG for me, definitely. Butler is close second. Good effort overall.

dude1394 · 12-22-2010, 01:46 AM

Caron has been very good as well, very decisive with the ball. Catch it and either shoot it or drive it, just don't rub it up, pamper it and then do something after everyone is set.

He still doesn't have much hops but he's playing really well. He's also another really good defender against the good shooting guards in the league. Good stuff TUFF!!

Five-ofan · 12-22-2010, 01:49 AM

1. On Dirk's play tonight, I have a hard time seeing how anyone watches that game and says that Dirk played well by his standards. Did he play well by JJB's standards? Sure, Did he play well by any superstar's standards? No. I did think he did a good job of opening things up for other guys but for the most part Hedo did a good job on him and Dirk never made him pay for being that close by going quick or

2. On the officiating, yes the Magic got away with being VERY physical but so did we. In general I just thought the officials let everyone play and I am not one of the people who refuses to complain about refs when its warranted.

3. I wouldnt be NEARLY so quick to dismiss the Magic as some of you seem to be based on the early returns.

4. Congrats to the big German for passing Larry Legend.

Five-ofan · 12-22-2010, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Push --->

Dunk.....^
..............|

Hmm...

To be fair, when I watched it live, I thought it looked like Dirk pushed him and I couldn't believe they didn't call it. If they didn't correct it after viewing the replay, they are retarded.

xrobx · 12-22-2010, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

A little part of me is hoping the Spurs run the table till the 30th and come in on a streak; little chance of it though, DEN ORL LAL before the 30th. Something's gotta give

no part of me wants that. all of me wants them to lose every game.

dude1394 · 12-22-2010, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrobx

no part of me wants that. all of me wants them to lose every game.

+1 damn straight...

LonghornDub · 12-22-2010, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

What you are missing in your analysis is Game Five. Yeah, it would be nice to be Avery and dumb shit up in the first couple games, with time to figure it out later. But that time does indeed come. When you are looking at best two-out-of-three to figure out the series, based on large part on your highly idiotic handling of the first four games...well, trust me...you would a whole lot better like for the first two (and not the one) of those games to be on your home court.

I'm not "missing" game 5 at all. It'd certainly be helpful to have a Game 5 on your homecourt, especially if the series is 2-2. That still doesn't outweigh my other concerns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Your notion is romantic, and for that reason not without interest, but it holds no water.

I'm not sure what you think you're doing by telling me it "holds no water." I obviously don't agree. It holds plenty of water. You're not convincing me otherwise by stating to the contrary. And calling it "romantic," well frankly, that's somewhat insulting and I don't appreciate it.

dirno2000 · 12-22-2010, 02:12 AM

Chum as a long time reader of your work on these boards I'm almost certain that at one time you were of the opinion that home court didn't matter much in playoff series between closely matched teams. Have you shifted your way of thinking or am I misremembering?

Dirkadirkastan · 12-22-2010, 02:42 AM

L-Dub, between the two possibilities for a seven game series:

A: You start on the road. You have three games at home, meaning you must win at least one on the road. If you lose Game 1 on the road, you still need a road win, and still do not have Game 7 on your home court.

B: You start at home. You have four games at home, meaning it is possible to win the series without winning a single road game. If you lose Game 1 at home, you will then need a minimum of one road win, but at least Game 7 would still be played on your home court if it came down to it.

You're saying you prefer A over B?

GermanDunk · 12-22-2010, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

we won so...

A 90° rotation and it fits...

Hell yes.

JHT · 12-22-2010, 03:11 AM

Things I learned from watching the absolutely terrible Orlando Magic broadcast:

- Shawn Marion never plays defense, because he started out with Phoenix... though used to be a good defender in his younger days and just isn't anymore (I have no idea how both of these things can be true)

- Dirk cannot possibly hope to guard Hedo Turkeyglue and so he's going to be tired from trying.

- Dirk does not need to be guarded, because he's only a jumpshooter and not a power player like Dwight Howard.

- Dirk has no inside game and can only score from 19 feet when he's facing the basket.

- The Dallas Mavericks only have a reputation as a defensive team because they've only played bad teams this year.

- Jason Kidd was completely ineffective tonight, even though he had a double double.

- Earl Clark is listed at 6'10" but he's actually 7 feet (this was said while Earl was standing next to Dirk and looking like he was clearly at least 3 inches shorter than Dirk)

- Zone defense is the softest defense you can play, and the Mavs only use it because they aren't good on defense and because they can't stop Dwight Howard and they're too soft to play man to man.

- Tyson Chandler is useless and just fouls out every game, and the Mavs should have started Haywood because he's the only one on the team with any chance when Dwight Howard on the floor.

Worse than that, just the broadcast in general is HORRIBLE. At one point rather than giving useful stats they both sat around and wondered about what the game stats were.

Announcer 1: I wonder how many rebounds player X has?
Announcer 2: I don't know!

Makes you appreciate the mavs broadcast team so much more. You would NEVER hear that exchange from Mark and Bob. Instead you'd get:

Mark: Dirk has 8 rebounds in the quarter, that's a new season record for him.
Bob: Well the way he's crashing the boards has paid off and....

The Magic broadcast is the second worst in the league. The only one worse is the Trailblazers broadcast.

JHT · 12-22-2010, 03:13 AM

Not sure what's up with Dirk lately, hopefully he comes out of it soon.

But has anyone else noticed that when he's not really scoring well Dirk really starts crashing the boards a lot harder and his rebounding seems to go up? He was awesome on the boards tonight. Surprised he didn't have a double double.

JHT · 12-22-2010, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Portland causes issues because they play a lot of zone defense, and LMA always seem to play out of his ass vs. us. Although with Roy put out to pasture, I'm less concerned with them.

I really don't think Portland will even make the playoffs. Their entire team is injured again. Roy is pretty much done for. He really should retire. Joel Pryzbilla got hurt again. Camby was hurt... they're just constantly hurt.

You want to play Portland... if by some miracle they make the playoffs.

I don't know why they haven't fired their entire training staff by now.

JHT · 12-22-2010, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Agreed. And the Heat announcers are so, so good, in my opinion, so it was night and day last night versus tonight.

Completely agree. The Heat broadcasters are EXCELLENT. I'd rather listen to them over ESPN's announcers actually. Mark and Bob are the only team I like better.

41mvp · 12-22-2010, 03:25 AM

Great job boys!!!Big win!!!We are the best team in the NBA!!!

mavs777 · 12-22-2010, 03:38 AM

Disappointed in our bench, most of all Haywood, its a big reason why we don't have more blowouts

Kante · 12-22-2010, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Disappointed in our bench, most of all Haywood, its a big reason why we don't have more blowouts

Haywood played well yesterday!

Gray Sage · 12-22-2010, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

If I never have to listen to those Orlando announcers again it'll be too soon. What a pair of douche-bags.

I don't believe I've ever heard so many moronic comments from supposedly professional announcers. I think they ragged on every single Maverick player.

jcm28 · 12-22-2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Well, this isn't football. Matchups are the most important thing in he NBA. Thje West is flukely because a 7th-8th seed is more like a 4-5 seed in the East.

If the Mavericks need be concerned about a 4-5 EAST seed, they are not championship material.

iella · 12-22-2010, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHT

Completely agree. The Heat broadcasters are EXCELLENT. I'd rather listen to them over ESPN's announcers actually. Mark and Bob are the only team I like better.

This. They were better than Hubie for sure. I always complain about other teams' broadcasters (and Hubie), so my husband thinks that it's just a pro-Mark-and-Bob bias. I was pleased to find on Monday night that there is one aspect of the Heat franchise that I do not absolutely hate (in fact, rather enjoy), and I was just as happy to prove my husband wrong.

I'm not irrational, I swear...

Underdog · 12-22-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHT

Things I learned from watching the absolutely terrible Orlando Magic broadcast:

- Shawn Marion never plays defense, because he started out with Phoenix... though used to be a good defender in his younger days and just isn't anymore (I have no idea how both of these things can be true)

- Dirk cannot possibly hope to guard Hedo Turkeyglue and so he's going to be tired from trying.

- Dirk does not need to be guarded, because he's only a jumpshooter and not a power player like Dwight Howard.

- Dirk has no inside game and can only score from 19 feet when he's facing the basket.

- The Dallas Mavericks only have a reputation as a defensive team because they've only played bad teams this year.

- Jason Kidd was completely ineffective tonight, even though he had a double double.

- Earl Clark is listed at 6'10" but he's actually 7 feet (this was said while Earl was standing next to Dirk and looking like he was clearly at least 3 inches shorter than Dirk)

- Zone defense is the softest defense you can play, and the Mavs only use it because they aren't good on defense and because they can't stop Dwight Howard and they're too soft to play man to man.

- Tyson Chandler is useless and just fouls out every game, and the Mavs should have started Haywood because he's the only one on the team with any chance when Dwight Howard on the floor.

Worse than that, just the broadcast in general is HORRIBLE. At one point rather than giving useful stats they both sat around and wondered about what the game stats were.

Announcer 1: I wonder how many rebounds player X has?
Announcer 2: I don't know!

Makes you appreciate the mavs broadcast team so much more. You would NEVER hear that exchange from Mark and Bob. Instead you'd get:

Mark: Dirk has 8 rebounds in the quarter, that's a new season record for him.
Bob: Well the way he's crashing the boards has paid off and....

The Magic broadcast is the second worst in the league. The only one worse is the Trailblazers broadcast.

Haha, great post!

I love having knowledgeable announcers like Bob & Mark (& Skin) here in Dallas...

Lestat_1795 · 12-22-2010, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHT

Things I learned from watching the absolutely terrible Orlando Magic broadcast:

- The Dallas Mavericks only have a reputation as a defensive team because they've only played bad teams this year.

This remark and the talk about J Kidd looking and playing old really annoyed the hell out of me

xrobx · 12-22-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lestat_1795

This remark and the talk about J Kidd looking and playing old really annoyed the hell out of me

well if it's any consolation i'm sure the mavs sending the magic to their 8th loss in 9 games probably really annoyed the hell out of them as well

Lestat_1795 · 12-22-2010, 05:25 PM

xrobx · 12-22-2010, 05:40 PM

get on yahoo frontpage

see this

... lolando

quietsavant · 12-22-2010, 05:57 PM

Watch the Mavs bench after Hedo misses the Dunk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEGLbNFu1lI

Look closely Cuban is behind lex on the bench and his reaction is also priceless.

tcat075 · 12-22-2010, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

To be fair, when I watched it live, I thought it looked like Dirk pushed him and I couldn't believe they didn't call it. If they didn't correct it after viewing the replay, they are retarded.

It was hard to tell whether it was actually a push or just a hand on Hedo's back. Probably it was a push, but there was no sustained contact longer than a second or so.