Webber, Posey in the Works

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Pops has more skill in the NBA than Faz right now, but unlimited potential? He doesnt have the basketball IQ and he has no jumpshot. Even his inside moves aren't all that well chosen (even if he is aggressive with them). He may have infinite potential but Keyon Clark did too and he was 3 inches taller. Pops just doesnt have a large wingspan and a lot of his moves are power moves which dont translate well to the NBA because of his comparative strength there.

Faz I think has more potential but less to bring this year. The dude is smart, sets good picks, and has can score from anywhere. His problem is strength and speed, both of which can improve a lot but he'll probably take 2 years.

Sorry for the double post, but you typed that as I was doing mine. I agree with what you said. This year, Pops is probably more primed to do damage. But if you give Fazekas time in the D-League to figure out how to become a Center and get adjusted to that with his game, he'll be ready maybe as soon as the end of the year, but I'd expect more time needed.

[mqywaaah]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

How many players can you have on a roster again?

150, if memory serves me correct.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by mqywaaah

150, if memory serves me correct.

divided by 10.

12 active, 3 inactive. If we keep JJB, we will have all 15 without Pops. So to sign Terry or keep Pops we would need to cut someone

[mqywaaah]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

divided by 10.

12 active, 3 inactive. If we keep JJB, we will have all 15 without Pops. So to sign Terry or keep Pops we would need to cut someone

If you were to make that decision, would you sign Terry or keep Pops? And who would you cut?

[seelenjaeger]

Dude - I want the physical PG to put on guys like Kidd, Baron Davis et al. I don´t want to give him PT, but I´d like to have one around in case we need to outmuscle an opponents PG (which happens like 6-10 games over the course of a season). It´s like ... having a third center who´s a pure weakside shotblocker ... just ... having him to throw him out when things don´t work to make a change.

I think having Anthony Johnson in the GSW playoffs wouldnt have hurt us anymore than having Kevin Willis.

I thought we had Buckner for that purpose, but the way AJ´s using him we probably don´t.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by mqywaaah

If you were to make that decision, would you sign Terry or keep Pops? And who would you cut?

=JJB
+R. Terry
-Ager
-Pops


1) I'd pick up JJB's option. The guy is a great guy and he is not too far from being at least an effective second stringer. He's here because of the same reason that DJ is-- he has a skill that is incredibly hard to learn and incredibly rare to posess. He's small and not as fast but he'll get some burn.

2) cut Ager or send him to Europe if we can keep his rights because he just has a lot of room to improve his maturity, his basketball IQ, and his ability to impact a game every night. I hate to ever give up someone's rights because they might potentially put in the work and come back a good player but Ager just isnt ready and he doesnt provide anything we need and provides an immaturity we dont need.

3) sign Reyshawn Terry and have him alternate between DLeague and trash minutes so he gets a sense of the NBA. Terry has a great little package and maturity. He needs to learn our system to be really effective and learn the NBA officiating so he can get under people's skins without fouling because some of the extreme hussle he had on defense in the summer league would be called as fouls in the NBA.

4) Let Pops walk-- I know its sad and I love the whale killer but he just provides less than Josh Powell because he doesnt have a midrange jumper. If he was stronger and taller you could make him a center/PF prospect but he's an SF/PF prospect without a lot of length or wingpspan and he already has Nowitzki, Webber*, and the more polished Bass ahead of him at the 4, and Howard, Posey*, Stackhouse ahead of him at the 3 where he is sub-par speed-wise. I'd also keep him on the team as a great character guy but he's not a vet like Kevin Willis and we dont have a lot of room on the roster for guys to just provide leadership without playing any minutes.


*if signed

[mqywaaah]

Thanks EL, great insight. Ill keep that in mind.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

The roster
Definite (if both sign)
Brandon Bass
Greg Buckner
Erick Dampier
DeSagana Diop
Nick Fazekas
Devean George
Devin Harris
Josh Howard
Didier Ilunga-Mbenga
Dirk Nowitzki
James Posey
Jerry Stackhouse
Jason Terry
Chris Webber

On the roster but inactive (3)
Fazekas
Bass
Terry/Ager/Pops depending on who fills that 15th spot.

options
cheap buyout
Maurice Ager (1yr @ 1mill)

unsigned free agent
Renaldas Seibutis
Reyshawn Terry

qualifying offer/team option
Jose Barea
Pops Mensah-Bonsu

It's likely that with 14 players signed, the team will keep JJB and let Pops go
or buyout Ager and either keep Pops or sign Terry. Seibutus is guaranteed to be overseas


Evaluation
depth
Diop/Dampier/DJ/Fazekas
Nowitzki/Webber/George/Bass/Fazekas
Howard/Posey/George/Stackhouse/Buckner/Ager/R. Terry
Buckner/Stackhouse/Terry/Ager/R. Terry/Seibutis
Harris/Terry/JJB/Seibutis

Definitely looks there would be a glut at the 3 if Posey came in. It's my opinion that Ager would do better overseas to develop his intelligence and maturity while Terry would be better in an NBA setting getting used to the speed, officiating and rhythm. The 2/4 would also be full. I vote we keep JJB, sign Terry and let Pops walk while keeping Seibutis overseas.

I think you forgot about EJ.. I think with him here, it becomes more likely that Buckner gets waived/bought out..

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I think you forgot about EJ.. I think with him here, it becomes more likely that Buckner gets waived/bought out..

thanks for the catch. Then yeah we have 15 on our roster without JJB or Pops.

Looks like they may buyout Buckner or Ager and keep JJB and be done if they end up with both Posey and Webber. Ager is cheap to buyout since this is his last year and would cost us only 1 million. Buckner would cost 14.3mill in wasted salary

[EricaLubarsky]

The roster
Definite (if both sign)
Brandon Bass
Greg Buckner
Erick Dampier
DeSagana Diop
Nick Fazekas
Devean George
Devin Harris
Josh Howard
Didier Ilunga-Mbenga
Dirk Nowitzki
James Posey
Jerry Stackhouse
Jason Terry
Chris Webber

On the roster but inactive (3)
Fazekas
Bass
Terry/Ager/Pops depending on who fills that 15th spot.

options
cheap buyout
Maurice Ager (1yr @ 1mill)

unsigned free agent
Renaldas Seibutis
Reyshawn Terry

qualifying offer/team option
Jose Barea
Pops Mensah-Bonsu

It's likely that with 14 players signed, the team will keep JJB and let Pops go
or buyout Ager and either keep Pops or sign Terry. Seibutus is guaranteed to be overseas


Evaluation
depth
Diop/Dampier/DJ/Fazekas
Nowitzki/Webber/George/Bass/Fazekas
Howard/Posey/Jones/George/Stackhouse/Buckner/Ager/R. Terry
Buckner/Stackhouse/Jones/Terry/Ager/R. Terry/Seibutis
Harris/Terry/JJB/Seibutis

Definitely looks there would be a glut at the 3 if Posey came in. It's my opinion that Ager would do better overseas to develop his intelligence and maturity while Terry would be better in an NBA setting getting used to the speed, officiating and rhythm. The 2/4 would also be full. I vote we keep JJB, sign Terry and let Pops walk while keeping Seibutis overseas.

revised: thanks Spree for the correction

[Eman]

Pops will never be more than a 9th or 10th man in the NBA for a bad team.
He can't shoot, he it too thin to play power forward. All he can do is slam dunk. He's not even a great rebounder because he doesn't get into position.

In my opinion, he's all flash and no Dash. Cut him.
Besides, we've already made that decision by signing Fazekas and BAss

[DevinFuture]

Harris, J. Terry, Barea, Ager, Buckner, R. Terry, E. Jones, Posey, Howard, Stack, George, Dirk, Pops, Webber, Fazekas, Bass, Damp, Diop, Mbenga, Seibutis

That's 20 effing players. We're just a few shy of being able to put two full teams together.

Forget about cutting players. Let's sign Clay Tucker, Caleb Green, and a couple more free agents to form a 12-man junior squad to send to the eastern conference.

[Flacolaco]

Hoopsworld remains the only ones reporting this possibility, no?

[Eman]

Fazekas was a 20/10 guy in college, don't y'all think that gives him a better chance to succeed in the NBA than some of these other guys. Guys that have been successful at other levels tend to continue that success. Emmitt Smith was too slow. Zack Thomas was too small. And of course Charles Barkley was too fat and short. I'm not saying FAZ is as good as any of those guys. I'm just saying he's had some success. Give him a chance.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Hoopsworld remains the only ones reporting this possibility, no?

worth repeating...


has anyone seen these reports on another site?

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

Well it's on hoopshype too pretty much saying the same thing as hoopsworld (l.a. radio station s are reporting etc...)

And it includes a link to fort worth star telegram with a guys opinion on if he signs. So it seems that he really is in talks with the Mavs but it hasn't gone down yet.

So the Internet's blowing up tonight (Sunday) with reports that an LA radio station has C-Webb, yes, Chris Webber, ready to sign a deal with the Mavericks, with the Mavs giving him the full mid-level exception, $5.36 million...hey, why not? might as well spend the thing, and C-Webb could become a signature add if his veteran body can hold up and if he's ready to embrace a reserve role on a team led by a coach with unwavering championship aspirations. Fort Worth Star-Telegram

Perhaps Webber is close in tow. The Mavs clearly could use veteran help to back up Dirk and help Avery ease up just a bit on Dirk's minutes while feeling comfortable that the sub can hold the fort for a few minutes. The Mavs have long had their eye on Webber and P.J. Brown, who's been mulling retirement, but could also command the full MLE from the Mavs or Phoenix or Boston or maybe even others -- everyone it seems needs size in the paint. Webber has said it's either Detroit or Dallas, so if he signs with the Mavs, figure Brown heads to the Suns. That would make for some interesting analysis of two aging forward-centers as the season goes along. Fort Worth Star-Telegram

So another words this is hoopshype linking from FW Telegram http://startelegram.typepad.com/mavs_fullcourt_press/2007/08/c-webb-to-mavs-.html','91'

Interesting enough this article says zero about Posey.

[sike]

with Jones on board, is Posey really that interesting?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sike

with Jones on board, is Posey really that interesting?

for a 1-2 million, yes.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by sike

with Jones on board, is Posey really that interesting?

I see EJ as a 10-12th man, whereas Posey could start at the 3, come off the bench as #7 or 8, and even play backup minutes at the 2 and/or 4 as needed.

I think a guy of his skills would usually be worth pretty close to the entire MLE, but it's a buyers' market this year, so he can probably be had for somewhere between 2 and 3 mil.

Don't we have a trade exception we can use? Maybe Miami would send him our way for the TE?

[sike]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I see EJ as a 10-12th man, whereas Posey could start at the 3, come off the bench as #7 or 8, and even play backup minutes at the 2 and/or 4 as needed.

I think a guy of his skills would usually be worth pretty close to the entire MLE, but it's a buyers' market this year, so he can probably be had for somewhere between 2 and 3 mil.

Don't we have a trade exception we can use? Maybe Miami would send him our way for the TE?

I don't value JP that much higher than EJ...I see them as just about the same thing...only JP is younger and larger.

[jthig32]

I would value James Posey MUCH, much higher than Eddie Jones.

[nikeball]

imo..on the EJ/Posey debate..it depends on what we want..

EJ = better offense
Posey = better defense

although..they are VERY similar stats wise..I think Posey does more of the little things on defense..that I hate to play against. His knack for taking charges really pisses me off..but I would love to see that on the mavs! But I feel the Mavs need CONSISTENT outside shooting..and EJ provides that better than Posey can.

[alby]

I would start James Posey at shooting guard.

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I would value James Posey MUCH, much higher than Eddie Jones.

based on?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by nikeball

imo..on the EJ/Posey debate..it depends on what we want..

EJ = better offense
Posey = better defense

although..they are VERY similar stats wise..I think Posey does more of the little things on defense..that I hate to play against. His knack for taking charges really pisses me off..but I would love to see that on the mavs! But I feel the Mavs need CONSISTENT outside shooting..and EJ provides that better than Posey can.

Why would Jones give you better offense? They're very similar players, they had very similar season last year, and Jones would seem much more likely to regress, based on his age.

So I think Posey equals equal offense (at the least, probably better), and better defense.

[eric03tx]

whats goin on guys, first time posting.

I went to George Washington and watched Pops play throughout his 4 years at GW. Big mistake cutting the guy, he didnt start playing until high school and he has huge upside. His improvement year to year, including t he jump from college to the NBA has been huge. The guy is gonna be a very solid contributor one day

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sike

based on?

Posey is six years younger, an equal, if not better offensive player, and a significantly better defensive player.

I would LOVE for the Mavs to sign Posey.

You said you don't see much difference beyond age, but 6 years is a really big deal, especially when Jones is 36.

[alby]

Posey is bigger and much more dirty. We need dirty players.

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Posey is six years younger, an equal, if not better offensive player, and a significantly better defensive player.

I would LOVE for the Mavs to sign Posey.

You said you don't see much difference beyond age, but 6 years is a really big deal, especially when Jones is 36.

as stated...I agree the age is the biggest difference to me as well...

has EJ lost his defensive ability? He used to be stout.

all in all I've never been a huge fan of either (neither can create their own shot with great effectiveness) but either one might be good for what we need....and since we already have EJ, I just don't see the great need of JP. Though I wouldn't cry at all if we managed both.

[sike]

Originally Posted by alby

Posey is bigger and much more dirty. We need dirty players.

indeed...we do need ...."rougher" guys.

[Stranger]

Edit-this was the Fort Worth Star Telegram mention, but I missed that it had been posted above by Mavs will have Rings.

[Henry_VIII]

#1 reason I'd want Posey: to train with Dirk.
Posey embodies the type of defender that Dirk has the hardest time with. If he were able to scrimmage with Posey on a regular basis, I think we'd see Dirk progress to his next level.

[sike]

I'd take Webber well over PJ...Webber's passing would be a great asset for the Mavs or the Suns...and I'd much prefer to keep him away from the Suns.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Henry_VIII

#1 reason I'd want Posey: to train with Dirk.
Posey embodies the type of defender that Dirk has the hardest time with. If he were able to scrimmage with Posey on a regular basis, I think we'd see Dirk progress to his next level.

that is a wonderful point, H8.

rep coming your way.

[nikeball]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Why would Jones give you better offense? They're very similar players, they had very similar season last year, and Jones would seem much more likely to regress, based on his age.

So I think Posey equals equal offense (at the least, probably better), and better defense.

In the past, EJ has produced (offensively) in many more ways than Posey. EJ has..or had.. the ability to create his own shots. Posey does not. Posey is more of what I like to say an "opportunistic scorer"..hit open shots from others creating for him..put backs. Me being old school..I guess I was just reminiscing about the days when EJ would carry the Lakers or Hornets with his sweeeet jumper

I think Posey would be a better fit in Avery's system but I still think EJ can be way more consistent as a spot-up shooter to spread the floor (zone breaker)..that we need.

My thoughts are also somewhat biased because Posey owned us in the finals

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Jones signing imminent, Webber next?
By Joe Boikess | August 6th, 2007

As reported over the weekend, Eddie Jones has agreed in principle to sign a new contract with the Mavs worth the bi-annual exception ($1.83 million) this year and includes an option for a second year. He is scheduled to take a physical in Dallas this morning, then sign his new contract before speaking to the media. Yesterday, rumors surfaced from a Los Angeles radio station that free agent Chris Webber is also close to signing a one-year contract with Dallas. Hoopsworld’s Bill Ingram and the Star-Telegram’s Jeff Caplan have confirmed that if true, the Mavs will use up their entire mid-level exception on Webber, worth about $5.36 million.

Although the team (and I) had hoped that C-Webb could be brought in without using the full value of the MLE, leaving some money left over to pursue other free agents such as James Posey (who could still be acquired via a trade) or Matt Barnes (who has reportedly agreed to a deal with the Warriors), I still think that this potential signing could mean big things for the Mavericks next season.

Webber and Jones by all means aren’t the players that they once were. Jones can still shoot and defend well, but has lost a lot of his athleticism and quickness that he had in L.A., Charlotte and Miami during his best years. Webber, too, has been slowed by age and and isn’t the dominant low-post threat that he once was in Sacramento. His last great year was probably in 2003 when the Kings could have won it all if Webber hadn’t blown out his knee against the Mavericks in the playoffs.

But despite all the negatives concerning these two players, I can’t help but feel optimistic for what they both can bring to the table. Let’s take some time to analyze what Jones and Webber can provide next season.

Eddie Jones

At about 6′7″ and 200 pounds, Jones gives the Mavs some much needed size at the 2 position, but can also play the 3 effectively. Though he has lost some quickness, he is still a very solid defender, which certainly pleases Avery, and can still shoot. With Stackhouse and Jones coming off the bench, the Mavs will have two veterans that bring an attitude, can score in bunches and defend well for 15-25 minutes or more each game.

Jones began last season in a Grizzlies uniform, averaging only about 19 minutes in 29 games, but was waived and then signed in February by the Miami Heat, where he was able to contribute. He played in 35 games (27 starts) for the Heat, averaging just under 30 minutes, 9.5 points, 3.6 rebounds and 2.1 assists, while shooting 44.6% from the field (his best since 2001), 37.8% from downtown and 83% from the line. When Dwyane Wade went down after dislocating his shoulder, Jones stepped into the starting lineup, starting all 15 games in March where he averaged 13.1 points and shot over 41% on three pointers.

With the addition of Jones, the Mavs can put a number of different lineups on the floor to match up with certain teams. For example, Avery could put out a formidable second string lineup of Barea, Jones, Stackhouse, George and Dampier. Or if the Mavs need shooters, the team could put in Terry, Ager, Jones, and Nowitzki for maximum firepower.

Off the court, Jones should be a welcome addition as well. He is supposedly a great locker room guy and his veteran leadership will be needed, especially in the playoffs.

Chris Webber

I have been clamoring this entire offseason for the Mavs to get C-Webb, and now it looks like my prayers have finally been answered. As I said before, Webber can’t do a lot of the things he used to be able to do nightly, namely use his superior ballhandling and athleticism to make opposing centers look foolish. He can still shoot and pass decently well, however, and will be a significant upgrade on offense over Diop and Dampier.

His numbers weren’t half bad with the Pistons last season (60 starts, 30 minutes per, 11.2 points, 7.2 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 45.2% from the field, 63.8% from the line). If he can average 10 points, 7 rebounds and 2.5 assists in 20-25 minutes in Big-D, I would be more than delighted. I like him as the starter against teams like Phoenix, Denver and Golden State, but I think the Mavs will be most successful with him coming off the bench.

For games against teams like San Antonio or Houston, for example, I’d start Harris, Terry, Howard, Nowitzki and Diop/Dampier, just like last season. Bring in Stackhouse and Jones off the bench, and Webber or George while Dirk and Diop/Dampier rests, and you’ve still got Ager, Buckner, Barea, Bass and Fazekas/Pops ready to contribute for whatever minutes are leftover.

Together, the addition of Eddie Jones and Chris Webber makes the Mavericks one of the more deep and versatile teams in the NBA once again. Jones gives them another veteran shooter and defender, while Webber shores up some of the problems on offense in the low post while significantly improving the team’s passing. Dallas will be able to match up with just about every team out there, even Golden State. There should be a confirmation coming later today regarding the signing of Jones, but hopefully the rumors are true about Webber and we’ll be seeing the introduction of two new Mavericks later this afternoon.

Link

[DLord]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

qualifying offer/team option
Jose Barea
Pops Mensah-Bonsu

A qualifying offer or an option only exists if there is no contract. But both of these players were originally signed to 2 year deals and have been under contract all the way.

The confusion arises because the 2nd year of the contract of each was written as a non-guaranteed one. A non-guaranteed contract simply means that the player and team have an agreed contract in place, but the team has the ability to essentially (in terms we easily understand) "fire" the player without owing any added compensation. To further confuse things, teams and players also have the ability to negotiate "partially guaranteed" contracts, which would pay the player a designated portion (but not all) of the contractual amount if he is fired.

Such contracts always have a point during the year at which, if the player is still on the roster, the contract "vests" and becomes 100% guaranteed for the remainder of the year. (Once guaranteed, if a player is "fired" they still get paid for the duration of the season.) By league rule, all non-guaranteed contracts become guaranteed for the balance of the season on January 10. But a team/player can negotiate an earlier date. Berea's was August 1, Pops' August 31. Fazekas and/or Bass may have such non-guaranteed contracts at the current time as well.

A non-guaranteed contract operates very differently from a team option. All options must be exercised prior to the beginning of a new season (ie by June 30). Also, a player waiting to have an option exercised or not cannot be traded - only players under future contract can be traded.

[alby]

THE ENTIRE MLE??????????

[Flacolaco]

How was Webbers health last season?

[mavsfan1000]

Posey would be an awesome pickup. I'd see him start at the 2 with Howard at the 3. Eddie Jones is too old to be a starter. Posey would be a great addition along with Webber as a backup to Dirk. Bye bye Buckner and Croshere.