R.I.P. To 'The Big Three' - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dirno2000 · 12-29-2003, 05:28 PM

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I'm sorry, but you cannot point to one game and say 'what about this time..'

Boston 0-6

Murphy3 · 12-29-2003, 05:32 PM

As for 'walker haters'...well, i'm hoping that within time, the mavs/walker/nellie will figure out how he fits in best with the club. I believe he can be a tremendous asset. Will his shots be curbed a bit? We'll have to wait and see. Will we see a bit more control in his game? We'll have to wait and see. I'm not disgusted with what I've seen from Walker this season. He has areas to improve. And yes, they are obvious areas. We'll just have to wait and see a bit longer.

kg_veteran · 12-29-2003, 05:35 PM

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Walker does so many things really well on the court. However, when you:

1. shoot the ball poorly from within the three point line
2. shoot the ball poorly from outside the three point line
3. get to the FT line at a poor clip
4. make a poor percentage of your FT's

When you struggle at doing ALL of the above, you should not be the guy taking anywhere near the most amount of attempts per game on this Dallas Mavs team.

Walker shoots 49% from inside the arc. That's not that bad. Otherwise, I obviously agree completely with what you're saying.

sike · 12-29-2003, 06:19 PM

so all he needs to do is stop shooting Threes, make 75% of his FTs, and average aobut four trips to the line a game....anyone want to hold their breath???

kg_veteran · 12-29-2003, 06:28 PM

All I really hope he does is reduce his three-point attempts. Anything beyond that is gravy.

Drbio · 12-29-2003, 06:31 PM

I wish he enjoyed the assist as much as he does shooting threes. I wish the NBA could offer incentive laden contracts tied to assists etc like other sports.

sike · 12-29-2003, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Drbio
I wish he enjoyed the assist as much as he does shooting threes. I wish the NBA could offer incentive laden contracts tied to assists etc like other sports.

I wish I were 6'7" and had played college ball, I wish candy was good for you, I wish the Mavs neverlost.....oh, and I wish I had hamburger....made from beef.....

if only our wishes came true....especially on that candy thing![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

LRB · 12-29-2003, 07:09 PM

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Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Quote:

Walker does so many things really well on the court. However, when you:

1. shoot the ball poorly from within the three point line
2. shoot the ball poorly from outside the three point line
3. get to the FT line at a poor clip
4. make a poor percentage of your FT's

When you struggle at doing ALL of the above, you should not be the guy taking anywhere near the most amount of attempts per game on this Dallas Mavs team.

Walker shoots 49% from inside the arc. That's not that bad. Otherwise, I obviously agree completely with what you're saying.

That begs the question why even shoot 3's at all if you're making only 30% of them. 30% is awful to shoot from 3pt land, while 49% is damn good. I guess shooting a 3 makes you look cooler. [img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]

Chiwas · 12-29-2003, 07:10 PM

I wish Walker had less touches and Dirk more.

Walker is worth for some plays, above all playing the low post, but Dirk is more productive with the ball all in all.

sike · 12-29-2003, 07:19 PM

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That begs the question why even shoot 3's at all if you're making only 30% of them. 30% is awful to shoot from 3pt land, while 49% is damn good. I guess shooting a 3 makes you look cooler. [img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]

I think you got it half right.....the other half is quite simply "it is easier to shoot threes"....you dont have to take the contact(and possibly go to the line...Walker's worst nightmare[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img])....

not all the reasons, but probably two worth noting

Murphy3 · 12-29-2003, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Quote:

Walker does so many things really well on the court. However, when you:

1. shoot the ball poorly from within the three point line
2. shoot the ball poorly from outside the three point line
3. get to the FT line at a poor clip
4. make a poor percentage of your FT's

When you struggle at doing ALL of the above, you should not be the guy taking anywhere near the most amount of attempts per game on this Dallas Mavs team.

Walker shoots 49% from inside the arc. That's not that bad. Otherwise, I obviously agree completely with what you're saying.

KG, I was referring to his career..not just what he's done with the mavs

dude1394 · 12-29-2003, 07:27 PM

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Originally posted by: kg_veteran
And yet, in many ways he is an efficient basketball player. He contributes rebounds, assists, steals, blocks at such a clip that he ranks high among the league's efficiency rankings. If his scoring role is reduced a bit and more focus is placed on those other areas of his game, he can be a huge asset to this team.

Although he is a pretty inefficient scorer (mainly I think because he doesn't finish at the hoop enough) he is quite a nice player. If you just take his points from 17 to say 12-13 then he's still getting you close to a triple-double every night... Not too bad at all...

Murphy3 · 12-29-2003, 07:32 PM

dude, I think most of us could live with that..and would agree with yours and KG's thoughts

dude1394 · 12-29-2003, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
so all he needs to do is stop shooting Threes, make 75% of his FTs, and average aobut four trips to the line a game....anyone want to hold their breath???

Well I don't know about 75% of his fts, but I think he will raise it up quite a bit this year. His highest ever was .741 in 01-02. I would bet that he will at least be shooting .70 by the end of the year.

dude1394 · 12-29-2003, 07:36 PM

Also I think that walker DOES enjoy assists quite a bit. I also don't mind a 3ptr every now and then, you have to make whoever is playing him pay sometimes.

Chiwas · 12-29-2003, 07:42 PM

He assists pretty well, but many times also provokes turnovers with his hard passes.

dude1394 · 12-29-2003, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Chiwas
He assists pretty well, but many times also provokes turnovers with his hard passes.

Chiwas, it's just perception, agreed he DOES have turnovers.. But as of right now walker is 45th and nash is 21st in assists/turnover..and 4th and 21st respectively in number of assists per game.

I think part of the deal is that we are getting more points in the paint and more points off of motion and not just jump-shooting so more opportunities to throw it away. Hopefully he will improve on that pass to the wing that he seems to throw away once per game.

The mavs themselves are second in number of turnovers and 9th in assists.

sike · 12-29-2003, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
so all he needs to do is stop shooting Threes, make 75% of his FTs, and average aobut four trips to the line a game....anyone want to hold their breath???

Well I don't know about 75% of his fts, but I think he will raise it up quite a bit this year. His highest ever was .741 in 01-02.

I would bet that he will at least be shooting .70 by the end of the year.

I'll take that bet any day of the week dude.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

but I agree that he does enjoy getting a dime......

Chiwas · 12-29-2003, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Chiwas, it's just perception, agreed he DOES have turnovers.. But as of right now walker is 45th and nash is 21st in assists/turnover..and 4th and 21st respectively in number of assists per game.

I think part of the deal is that we are getting more points in the paint and more points off of motion and not just jump-shooting so more opportunities to throw it away. Hopefully he will improve on that pass to the wing that he seems to throw away once per game.

The mavs themselves are second in number of turnovers and 9th in assists.

We agree.

But it doesn't mean the RIP of the Big Three.

Hopefully...

Edit: Some alien appeared.

dude1394 · 12-29-2003, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
so all he needs to do is stop shooting Threes, make 75% of his FTs, and average aobut four trips to the line a game....anyone want to hold their breath???

Well I don't know about 75% of his fts, but I think he will raise it up quite a bit this year. His highest ever was .741 in 01-02.

I would bet that he will at least be shooting .70 by the end of the year.

I'll take that bet any day of the week dude.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

but I agree that he does enjoy getting a dime......

How about this... 5 bucks that in the last two MONTHs of the season he's averaging 70% on FTs. We can exclude the playoffs just to get something final before games are over.... Or better yet we could be that whoever loses will start a thread something like:

"Insert Name Here" is the best poster on dallas-mavs.com and my personal hero! ;^)

Chiwas · 12-30-2003, 07:48 PM

Too much talk but we didn't get a conclussion.

Is it accurate or not the article?

I say "yes" if the team doesn't get a good Center.

MightyToine · 12-30-2003, 08:41 PM

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Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
so all he needs to do is stop shooting Threes, make 75% of his FTs, and average aobut four trips to the line a game....anyone want to hold their breath???

Well I don't know about 75% of his fts, but I think he will raise it up quite a bit this year. His highest ever was .741 in 01-02.

I would bet that he will at least be shooting .70 by the end of the year.

I'll take that bet any day of the week dude.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

but I agree that he does enjoy getting a dime......

How about this... 5 bucks that in the last two MONTHs of the season he's averaging 70% on FTs. We can exclude the playoffs just to get something final before games are over.... Or better yet we could be that whoever loses will start a thread something like:

"Insert Name Here" is the best poster on dallas-mavs.com and my personal hero! ;^)

That's a moot argument. From what I saw during his tenure with Boston, he seems to raise his overall game in the PLAYOFFS and that includes free throws. In fact, He shot just over 70% in the playoffs with the C's (when he was healthy) during their run to the ECF of the JV-Division.

ma-gaga · 01-02-2004, 02:23 AM

ma-gaga · 01-02-2004, 02:27 AM

whoops. damn "enter" bar...

Unfortunately Walker is a 'star'. He get's paid the big bucks and is paid to take shots. I think this is the hardest part of him trying to defer to others. He's never done it in the past, even on the Celtics he was the superstar until Paul Pierce outshone him. The toughest thing is going to try to get Antwan to buy into the reduced shots theory. He's never done it before, so he doesn't really have a stellar track record of being this coachable. If he does, I'll give him all the credit in the world for being a team player.

kingrex · 01-02-2004, 10:57 AM

Wow, a ton of name calling on this thread![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

Fisher's article is accurate in that the top 3 scorers on this team won't be Nash, Finley and Nowitzki anymore. The Jamison and Walker trade was made primarily to add more scorers to the line-up and so to expect Jamison and Walker NOT to score defeats the purpose of the trades. The hope is for all 5 scorers to co-exist and have any one or more of the 5 to step up when others are off their game.

The problem this year is that the 5 have not been able to figure out how they fit in on this team. Fisher is correct to point out that it was simpler last year when everyone knew who was doing all the scoring. This year the team felt compelled to find shots for Walker and Jamison at the deterement of the Big 3.

The result has been confusion at the close of most games on who should get the ball. It has also resulted in greater turnovers as the tendencies of each player's game have not been learned yet.

This is how I feel their roles should be:
1) Nowitzki should be the first scoring option. Especially when his defender is mismatched with him (which is often). Contrary to others opinion, I feel Dirk can make his own shot. His limitation is passing out of double teams and passing in general. I also think he has shown some timidity this year and I hope he can shake that.

2) Nash should be the primary ball handler and distributer. He should be opportunistic in hitting the 3-ptr and avoid over-dribbling. I know that is part of his game and at times it is very effective, but it also tends to make his team mates just stand around an wait for him to find them.

3) Finley should be the second scoring option unless Walker and Jamison have a more favorable match-up. Finley is a tougher against the smaller 2-guards of this league, especially when his fade away is on.

4) Walker should be a low post scoring option because of his ability to pass and create in the post. Unfortunately as a volume-scorer, there will be some games when he has to take more shots to pick-up the slack. However, this should only occur if other scoring options have been exhausted.

5) Jamsion should be the scrappiest scorer. I don't mean to say that he shouldn't be set up by the others, especially when he is being defended by a lesser defender, but I mean he needs to get his points off put backs and dive cuts. I love his ability to cut in the basket and loft that quick shot before the defense can adjust.

Yes, the days of the Big 3 may be dead, but let's pray that it will be replaced by the Big 3 plus 2 instead.

dude1394 · 01-02-2004, 11:55 AM

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Originally posted by: MightyToine

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
so all he needs to do is stop shooting Threes, make 75% of his FTs, and average aobut four trips to the line a game....anyone want to hold their breath???

Well I don't know about 75% of his fts, but I think he will raise it up quite a bit this year. His highest ever was .741 in 01-02.

I would bet that he will at least be shooting .70 by the end of the year.

I'll take that bet any day of the week dude.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

but I agree that he does enjoy getting a dime......

How about this... 5 bucks that in the last two MONTHs of the season he's averaging 70% on FTs. We can exclude the playoffs just to get something final before games are over.... Or better yet we could be that whoever loses will start a thread something like:

"Insert Name Here" is the best poster on dallas-mavs.com and my personal hero! ;^)

That's a moot argument. From what I saw during his tenure with Boston, he seems to raise his overall game in the PLAYOFFS and that includes free throws. In fact, He shot just over 70% in the playoffs with the C's (when he was healthy) during their run to the ECF of the JV-Division.

Nope NOT a moot arguement. Playing well in the playoffs is NOT enough. The team needs to get good playoff seeding. Anyway, my postulation is that he will be shooting 70% for the last two months of the season, not the playoffs.

MightyToine · 01-02-2004, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: ma-gaga
whoops. damn "enter" bar...

Unfortunately Walker is a 'star'. He get's paid the big bucks and is paid to take shots. I think this is the hardest part of him trying to defer to others. He's never done it in the past, even on the Celtics he was the superstar until Paul Pierce outshone him. The toughest thing is going to try to get Antwan to buy into the reduced shots theory. He's never done it before, so he doesn't really have a stellar track record of being this coachable. If he does, I'll give him all the credit in the world for being a team player.

Team-SHMEAM...As long as the MAVERICKS WIN, That's all that matters. (of course, I'd rather go to Dirk late in the game than Walker unless Dirk's covered well...)

MightyToine · 01-02-2004, 04:54 PM

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Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

Originally posted by: MightyToine

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

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Originally posted by: sike

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
so all he needs to do is stop shooting Threes, make 75% of his FTs, and average aobut four trips to the line a game....anyone want to hold their breath???

Well I don't know about 75% of his fts, but I think he will raise it up quite a bit this year. His highest ever was .741 in 01-02.

I would bet that he will at least be shooting .70 by the end of the year.

I'll take that bet any day of the week dude.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

but I agree that he does enjoy getting a dime......

How about this... 5 bucks that in the last two MONTHs of the season he's averaging 70% on FTs. We can exclude the playoffs just to get something final before games are over.... Or better yet we could be that whoever loses will start a thread something like:

"Insert Name Here" is the best poster on dallas-mavs.com and my personal hero! ;^)

That's a moot argument. From what I saw during his tenure with Boston, he seems to raise his overall game in the PLAYOFFS and that includes free throws. In fact, He shot just over 70% in the playoffs with the C's (when he was healthy) during their run to the ECF of the JV-Division.

Nope NOT a moot arguement. Playing well in the playoffs is NOT enough. The team needs to get good playoff seeding. Anyway, my postulation is that he will be shooting 70% for the last two months of the season, not the playoffs.

Hmmm....I'm more concerned with how he fares with the Mavs in the PLAYOFFS. *THAT'S* where the Real NBA Season begins. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Chiwas · 01-02-2004, 06:32 PM

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Hmmm....I'm more concerned with how he fares with the Mavs in the PLAYOFFS. *THAT'S* where the Real NBA Season begins.

Grrr. My brother used to say it when the Mavs were at the top or in second and the Spurs in the bottom. This week he sended an e-mail crowing the 13 games SA's streak and I had to reply saying that the NBA starts in April.

sike · 01-02-2004, 07:01 PM

walker will not average 70% this season.....I will bet on that!

dude you are on!