Atlanta at Dallas Gameday thread - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

FilthyFinMavs · 12-18-2004, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: DallasFan1980
I wouldn't pick on the Hawks shooting woes considering how badly we shot tonight.
This isn't a game to brag about. Dirk got every point and rebound when we were up by 30 already.

I was not impressed at all with the offense tonight and i'm not evne sure if I should be impressed with the defense I saw with the Hawks offensive woes. I'll give them props tonight for not taking the Hawks for granted but I can't say I come out of this game feeling great about it. Terry played okay. Had 4 assists but I think if Fin and Dirk are shooting like they are accustomed to he ends up having about 8 assists. Team played pretty poor today IMO.

MavsFanFinley · 12-18-2004, 10:58 PM

Mavs win 90-68:

Howard (32) 6-13, 0-2, 1-2, 13pts, 9rbs, 2as, 3tos, 2blks

Dirk (32) 5-12, 0-1, 5-10, 15pts, 12rbs, 3as, 2tos, 2stls, 1blk

Dampier (33) 3-8, 0-1, 4-6, 10pts, 13rbs, 2as, 1to, 1blk

Finley (33) 3-13, 1-5, 7pts, 5rbs, 1as, 1to, 1stl, 1blk

Terry (29) 4-9, 0-1, 4-6, 12pts, 4rbs, 4as, 4tos, 5slts

Henderson (17) 1-4, 2pts, 6rbs, 1blk

Harris (20) 3-6, 0-2, 2-3, 8pts, 1rb, 3as, 2tos, 4stls

Booth (11) 4-7, 8pts, 5rbs, 1blk

Daniels (21) 5-7, 1-2, 11pts, 1as, 1to, 2stls, 1blk

Armstrong (9) 0-3, 0-1, 4-4, 4pts, 1rb, 1as, 1to

Bradley (3) 0-1, 1rb

FilthyFinMavs · 12-18-2004, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Bayliss

Quote:

Is it really that big of a deal?

Yes. Because both of them need rest. And what is the best way to give it to them? By playing a sucky team. The Mavs got one tonight, and I won't even go into the risk of injury in the meaningless 4th quarter, but Dirk could've used that time to just rest the ankle for a little while longer.

No need to pound an ankle when you don't have to... and the Mavs didn't need him.

They just got 3 days of rest. And honestly do you think 3 NBA minutes is rest? If Nellie's intention was to come out this game with a huge lead and go into New York with something positive then I can't fault him for leaving Dirk and Finley in the game. Chances of Fin and Dirk getting hurt in those minutes are zero to none. Fin and Dirk know not to play their all to where they would jepardize their bodies.

Bayliss · 12-18-2004, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Fin and Dirk know not to play their all to where they would jepardize their bodies.

Like against Seattle when Dirk went up for a rebound innocently? Or when he was going for a rebound tonight with Terry?

The isk might be minute. But any smart coach doesn't run that risk.

MavsFanFinley · 12-18-2004, 11:04 PM

Nelson was worried that Walker was going to start draining 3's.

DubOverdose · 12-18-2004, 11:07 PM

I can understand Finley being put back in to hopefully find his shot again in game, instead of in practice.

jayC · 12-18-2004, 11:08 PM

Any time you hold a team to 12 first quarter points you are doing fairly well. Devin Harris had a nice game, what a dunk! Terry contributed five steals tonight too. The Knicks are a mediocre team as well. They are a dangerous team, but we should take care of buisnesss. I remember last year we lost to the Sixers minus AI and we barely beat the nets minus Kenyon and Kidd.

FilthyFinMavs · 12-18-2004, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Bayliss

Quote:

Fin and Dirk know not to play their all to where they would jepardize their bodies.

Like against Seattle when Dirk went up for a rebound innocently? Or when he was going for a rebound tonight with Terry?

The isk might be minute. But any smart coach doesn't run that risk.

Dirk was playing his ass off in that Seattle game. We were down by more than double digits and at that time if I remember correctly we were not only in single digits but were closing in on their lead.

bcrav4 · 12-18-2004, 11:30 PM

I think Nellie should have kept Dirk in and given him a few more shots. He needs a low pressure game like this to get his shot back! Although 5-12 is not too bad.

bloodyhell · 12-19-2004, 05:28 AM

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/gamece...041218_ATL@DAL

Dirk Loses Two Front Teeth While U.S. Soldiers Watch In Front-Row
Dirk Nowitzki led Dallas with 15 points and 12 rebounds, despite losing his front teeth during the middle of the game. His gritty performance was witnessed by 137 U.S. soldiers wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan sitting in front-row seats.

Nowitzki was hit in the mouth by teammate Jason Terry and Atlanta's Jason Collier while going for a rebound. He returned late in the first quarter without the dental bridge that comprises most of his top teeth. He had it put back in at halftime with a cream a team employee bought at a drug store during the first half.

"I was lucky enough that my dentist was actually at the game," Nowitzki said. "He came in and fixed it real quick. I've got to go back and see him (Sunday)."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Damn, dirks been taking a beating this year.

jibikao · 12-19-2004, 05:24 PM

Dirk lost teeth again last night??

What's up with Dirk's FT? 5-10??

Jimmy

FilthyFinMavs · 12-19-2004, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Damn, dirks been taking a beating this year.

That's the result of driving to the lane alot. You can't expect to drive to the lane and not get a beating.

dude1394 · 12-19-2004, 08:53 PM

Yea...I really wish he had more post up game instead of just driving. Any joe-shmoe can kill him going to the lane, but a jump-hook or something closer wouldn't subject him to it so much.

bloodyhell · 12-20-2004, 02:01 AM

>Yea...I really wish he had more post up game instead of just driving. Any joe-shmoe can kill him going to the lane, but a jump-hook or something closer wouldn't subject him to it so much.

Our passing is too poor for him to get any looks. He has the game, especially when he gets a mismatch. it's just that our passing is crap. If we had a different pg maybe. He's had to learn to go 24/7 to the hole without a great pg. He's had to force a lot of shots on the point without any guard creation. It's going to be this way all year until moves are made.

FilthyFinMavs · 12-20-2004, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: bloodyhell
>Yea...I really wish he had more post up game instead of just driving. Any joe-shmoe can kill him going to the lane, but a jump-hook or something closer wouldn't subject him to it so much.

Our passing is too poor for him to get any looks. He has the game, especially when he gets a mismatch. it's just that our passing is crap. If we had a different pg maybe. He's had to learn to go 24/7 to the hole without a great pg. He's had to force a lot of shots on the point without any guard creation. It's going to be this way all year until moves are made.

What does Dirk's post up game have to do with passing? Finley or Stack can throw Dirk the ball into the post for Dirk to show off his post up game. Dirk isn't like Dampier. He doesn't have to get the ball above his shoulders in order to score in the post. I'd honestly like to see more hook shots from Dirk and Dampier. They rarely shoot them but it seems like they hit them everytime they do.

dude1394 · 12-20-2004, 11:42 AM

The problem with dirk is either he won't or cannot get low-post position. I'm not sure he knows what to do with it honestly as his game is much more facing the basket. You are correct FFM, passing doesn't have a dang thing to do with it.

I was reading something a year or two ago about Pau Gasol. It was his ex-coach complaining that he was becoming nothing more than a post-up player and losing his game facing the basket. Dirk just doesn't have a lot of low-post game if you ask me.

And the didn't post up anymore when he had nash either.

I can't tell if it's a little bit of a function of nellies offense as he likes that high pick and roll at the elbow so much, however he does post up guys in the blocks sometimes.

I think I'll come down on the side of dirk either not being comfortable with his back to the basket or just not heavy and strong enough to get and keep position. Very seldom do we see him seal a man off for a pass for example.

sike · 12-20-2004, 12:40 PM

without soudning like too much of a homer here dude, I actually think Dirk has a very above average post game when properly utilized. Hes no TD, Brand or Pau but when he gets the ball down there it usually ends in positive things for the Mavs, especially now that Dirk can draw a foul seemingly at a whim....I think it has more to do with Nellie not wanting to use Dirk down there than anything else.

JLEEHASMUCHGAME · 12-20-2004, 12:46 PM

I think Dirk's difficulty in playing in the post has do with a combination of a couple of factors.

1. He isn't a dominant physical presence that can get good post position whenever he wants.

2. The other parts of his game are so good that he has failed to develop a good "feel" in the post. This could be due to coaching, but it also could be due to his own personal preference.

sike · 12-20-2004, 12:49 PM

I see the stats, but how did Terry look running the point?

JLEEHASMUCHGAME · 12-20-2004, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
without soudning like too much of a homer here dude, I actually think Dirk has a very above average post game when properly utilized. Hes no TD, Brand or Pau but when he gets the ball down there it usually ends in positive things for the Mavs, especially now that Dirk can draw a foul seemingly at a whim....I think it has more to do with Nellie not wanting to use Dirk down there than anything else.

I can agree with this, but I feel he can still improve his inside game. It will make him and the mavs that much scarier.

sike · 12-20-2004, 12:56 PM

I'm glad you agree [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

yes, there is room for improvment, but there is enough there already to see him taking advantage of weaker players

JLEEHASMUCHGAME · 12-20-2004, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
I see the stats, but how did Terry look running the point?

I didn't catch much of the first half, but I thought Terry did an adequate job from what I saw. I think he'll do better as he gets more accustomed to starting. I hope Nellie finally leaves the starting lineup alone.

V2M · 12-20-2004, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
I see the stats, but how did Terry look running the point?

Just solid, above-average game... nothing spectacular!! He didn't dribble so much... looked to pass first... took good shots. He also played good defense but then Atlanta has no good ball-handlers so it's hard to tell from this one game.

sike · 12-20-2004, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Atlanta has no good ball-handlers

Walker?????

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

EricaLubarsky · 12-20-2004, 01:20 PM

darn fine steal numbers again

SPG leaders top 50
Daniels 12th
Terry 26th
Harris 28th
Howard 34th
Nowitzki 35th

2nd in steals 9.24 per game (washington 1st. Hughes has 3.05 of them)
1st in 3pt defense
2nd in rebounding per game
7th in opponent fg%
8th in blocks
9th in points per game
9th best opponent ppg

and then there is the lack of a consistent point...

18th FG%
20th 3pt FG%
30th in the league in assists (17.32)

FilthyFinMavs · 12-20-2004, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
The problem with dirk is either he won't or cannot get low-post position. I'm not sure he knows what to do with it honestly as his game is much more facing the basket. You are correct FFM, passing doesn't have a dang thing to do with it.

I was reading something a year or two ago about Pau Gasol. It was his ex-coach complaining that he was becoming nothing more than a post-up player and losing his game facing the basket. Dirk just doesn't have a lot of low-post game if you ask me.

And the didn't post up anymore when he had nash either.

I can't tell if it's a little bit of a function of nellies offense as he likes that high pick and roll at the elbow so much, however he does post up guys in the blocks sometimes.

I think I'll come down on the side of dirk either not being comfortable with his back to the basket or just not heavy and strong enough to get and keep position. Very seldom do we see him seal a man off for a pass for example.

Yea that's a great point. When Dirk gets a shorter guy on him in the post most of the time it results in a fadeaway. When you have a shorter opponent you are suppose to take advantage but I think Dirk should be able to post up a shorter player on him without having to rely on a fadeaway.

kg_veteran · 12-20-2004, 10:18 PM

When you have a shorter opponent on you, you should never fade away. But Dirk sometimes does -- one of the few flaws in his offensive game.

dude1394 · 12-20-2004, 10:28 PM

I think dirk is a wonder facing up, but with his back to the basket I think he is pretty third-rate.

Bayliss · 12-20-2004, 10:40 PM

(These are all hypothetical percentages just to prove a point.)

And here's is what goes through Dirk's mind I believe when he is on a "post up."

Dirk probably thinks to himself: what is the highest percentage shot I can shoot? If the Mavs need two points from me, what can I do to get those 2 points "easy?" And for Dirk it is to face the basket and shoot a 15 footer.

So when Dirk shoots around 70% on his 15 footers. So every time he shoots a 15 footer, he will likely hit 7 out of 10.

On his post up moves, where it be a jump hook, or up and under, it probably is about 40-50%. Or 5 out of every 10 attempts.

So when he gets the ball, most of the time, he realizes he's a better face up shooter so he turns into the player and doesn't keep his back to the basket.

The only way for Dirk to get better in the post is if to get repition. The only problem is Dirk goes for higher percentage shots and abandons his own post game sometimes... so therein lies the catch 22.