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04-25-2006, 11:53 PM
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#81 | |
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04-26-2006, 12:12 AM
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#82 | |
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hmmm, if you put it that way, i'd have to say it's pretty hard to plug in Nash or Billups and imagine that as a playoff team. I know it's not the best way to compare but I would say plug in Dirk or Lebron and I can see them still making the playoffs. So though i don't think Kobe is MVP, he's definitely a legit candidate from that standpoint and his numbers are great even though some would say inflated. That said, I do think Dirk makes teammates better and no question in my mind that Odom would be better playing with Dirk than Kobe. Even though I wouldn't go so far as to say that Odom's career has been dragged in the mud from playing with Kobe, you can't really say that Kobe playing with him has elevated his game in any way. It's just speculation but I think playing alongside Dirk would noticably make Odom better - easier shots, more room to create, etc. The one example of Dirk's ability to make others better is his play with his national team. So as much as Odom not playing so great is due to Odom, I still think Dirk makes him better than what he's been with Kobe. |
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), because you are trying to push me, but I wont... I will just say that you are wrong and I would imagine almost everyone in the WORLD would agree with me... Sure, some here would say the same you will because they simply hate him, but he is A M A Z I N G! Knocking Kobe's ability to win the MVP because of decisions he MIGHT, (do you have proof that Kobe called the owner and told him that it was him or Shaq - or is it possible that Buss decided to keep the younger of the two???), have made in previous years is STUPID!|
04-26-2006, 12:16 AM
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#83 | |
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I agree completely man. Odoms points have continued to trend down ever since he got to kobe-land. Probably the worst thing that ever happened to him, being stuck with showbe. His FG% is higher than ever so he's not in some sort of slump. His FTA's are almost 150 less since he played with a "teammate" and not a "supasta'". Kobe is the wests Allan Iverson.
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"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’ |
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04-26-2006, 12:27 AM
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#84 |
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What really hurt Dirks chances was March and April. At the time he needed to show off for the league, the team struggled with injuries, and lost a bunch of games. Never mind how many victories Dirk created with one NBADL player starting at shooting guard and another backing him up. Never mind him scoring more than 30 eight times in that span, voters will proably more impressed with him losing the game where he scored 51.
Imagine the highlights and the blowouts a healthy Mavs team might have displayed. In reality, carrying his team makes Dirk more deserving. But in a league that values dunks, no look alley oops, flashy highlights and headlines, consistancy and leadership don't count for as much. Don't forget, many of these ballots go to sportswriters. When their teams played Cleveland or LA, its guarenteed they wrote a feature about LeBron, and probably one about Kobe. Voting for one of them valaidates the writer's judgement to write about them. All their dunks get rerun in the hightlights, further imprinting the brain. Its what sells papers. When Dirk comes in, he just quietly whips them. His highlight is probably a beautiful 3, or a dunk, sans strut or "dunk face". What's to remember? Its a consspiracy alright. A low key guy with a subtle style and a beat up team. Sorry Dirk. We know you earned. Maybe you can just settle for a Finals MVP.
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"He got dimes." Harrison Barnes on Luca Doncic during his 1st NBA training camp. |
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04-26-2006, 12:29 AM
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#85 | |
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Like Dan said, your arguement isn't based in reason but rather blind homerism.
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04-26-2006, 01:01 AM
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#86 | |
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I ABSOLUTELY LOVE Dirk, but pass that joint, PLEASE... Kobe is a CONSISTENT double team and despite his image, he actually passes a good bit when the game isn't on the line, (4.5 assists per game). If anyone spreads the floor more than Kobe, please point him out. I know how much Kobe is hated on this forum and I know how terrible of a human being he is; however, regarding pure basketball talent, Kobe is currently the best in the game! If anyone argues with that, I will be happy, check that, ECSTATIC to begin this argument!!! Once LeBron becomes the defensive force Kobe is, he will be the best, but right now, it is Kobe all the way! With all of that said, do I believe he is the MVP? Again, due to his team record vs. Dirk's, no! But again, I would not whine if he did get it because he did have a tremendous year and very few if any other guys could take that team as far as he has!
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04-26-2006, 01:28 AM
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#87 | |
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04-26-2006, 01:30 AM
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#88 | |
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The Preacha
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 ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?" |
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04-26-2006, 01:41 AM
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#89 | |
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Marquis Daniels will never be a great shooter, and LeBron will never be a great defender. Kobe is a great defender. LeBron can improve his defense the way Dirk has. But just like Dirk will never be Duncan on the defensive end, LeBron will never EVER be Kobe in that respect. Kobe has been selected for the all-defensive first team three times and the second team twice. I'll be more than a little surprised if LeBron ever makes the all-defensive second team, and I will be absolutely shocked (I mean, waking up with your head sewn to the carpet shocked) if he ever makes the first team. It just ain't gonna happen. |
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04-26-2006, 07:12 AM
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#90 | |
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Oh I believe you do not give the coastal media enough credit here sir. He will be touted as the greatest since sliced bread so much that he WILL be in that second team at least. I would not be surprised about making first team. He will get every benefit of the doubt.
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04-26-2006, 08:44 AM
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#91 |
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Kobe is capable of being the best 2 guard defender in the nba but as someone who watches a good many laker games he hasnt been this year. He can turn it on for stretched(much like dirk can) but as much as he does on offense NO ONE could play great d. There is a limit to the amount of energy in the human body. Kobe is great but Lebron is the most talented individual player in the game right now.
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04-26-2006, 10:51 AM
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#92 |
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This is from Ric Bucher's chat today... I am by no means a mavs fan but to not have Dirk in your top 5 MVP balloting is ..( feel free to add whatever you'd like)..
John (Kansas CIty): Enough irrelevant talk about teams that don't stand a chance of winning. Everybody keeps knocking of Duncan;s numbers being down but they forget that the Spurs added Finley and Van Exel, plus Tony and Manu have to score. Duncan might be injured but he can still dominate when he needs too. Spurs 2006 NBA Champions!!! Ric Bucher: (11:45 AM ET ) I agree. Even at 80 percent, Duncan is the best PF in the league. It's why he was on my MVP ballot, which, for the curious, went like this: Kobe, Nash, Billups, Duncan, James. Another mav tidbit..I am in a very pro-mav mood today.. robert philadelphia,pa: hi bucher,Ive heard mark cuban said he would love to get another scorer/superstar to surround nowitski,could that be iverson and what could they give up that would interest the 76ers? Ric Bucher: (11:53 AM ET ) I haven't heard AI's name bandied about in Dallas but I have heard Jermaine's. Imagine O'Neal and Dirk as a combo. Last edited by George Gervin; 04-26-2006 at 10:56 AM. |
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04-26-2006, 10:55 AM
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#93 |
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Duncan is the Spurs MVP...but, does he mean as much to the Spurs as what Dirk does to the Mavs? The Spurs are still a playoff team without Duncan. In my opinion, with all the injuries that the Mavs had this year, the Mavs don't sniff the playoffs without Dirk.
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04-26-2006, 10:56 AM
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#94 | |
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04-26-2006, 10:58 AM
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#95 | |
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That is a very odd statement for you and dan to make. |
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04-26-2006, 10:58 AM
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#96 |
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Hes a fucking moron. Do not edit that. It needs to be left the way it is.
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04-26-2006, 11:48 AM
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#97 | |
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And in case one of your next statements will be "But I didn't say Dirk should win it" I say PLEASE... Your mouth was firmly attached to Dirk's nuts for the better part of the season, so you don't HAVE to say it, (and I don't know that you didn't by the way, I am just too lazy to re-read all of the thread). I am not trying to be an ass or anything, I am just saying, you were his biggest supporter and I don't think anyone here would deny that. I guess I am just realistic and many others aren't due to hatred of Kobe. I see everyone for what they are on the court without my blue and white colored glasses... Kobe is amazing, and denying that, despite me hating his personality and demeanor, is me lying to myself!
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04-26-2006, 12:32 PM
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#98 |
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Diamond Member
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Kobe is in no way the MVP...you gotta be on an elite team to be MVP
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04-26-2006, 12:47 PM
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#99 | |
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Diamond Member
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04-26-2006, 01:02 PM
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#100 | |
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I think that has more to do with the style of play Kobe and Odom play. In order to be at their best they both demand the basketball which is why Caron Butler was a better fit for the Lakers than Odom. Odom is clearly the better player but he needs the ball in his hands just like Kobe does. |
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04-26-2006, 01:55 PM
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#101 |
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Is Dirk as good a scorer as Kobe or Lebron? Maybe not, but it's pretty close and if you can get that kind of scoring out of your power forward position that's a much bigger advantage then getting it from a SG or SF.
And Kobe is average at best on defense. Last edited by Popeye; 04-26-2006 at 01:55 PM. |
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04-26-2006, 02:08 PM
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#102 |
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Here's my argument for Kobe as an MVP candidate.
They'd be looking up at the Jailblazers right now if they didn't have him. Instead they have a realistic shot at beating the Suns in the playoffs. And he's probably the best all-around player since Jordan. |
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04-26-2006, 02:25 PM
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#103 | |
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Boom goes the Dynamite!
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definately not. on both counts. no kobe would mean, they'd have shaq. and probably some combo of maggette + brand for bryant. they'd be better than they are now. pjax never would have left. and the jailblazers would be looking up at them. kobe = slighty better version of crackhouse in his prime. Last edited by aexchange; 04-26-2006 at 02:27 PM. |
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04-26-2006, 03:09 PM
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#104 | |
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Than after 2 years the Lakers would be the Clippers. Even worse since they have no point guard. Keeping Kobe was the right decision. It would've been better to keep both but ego's clash and things get ugly. Lakers would be one of the worst teams in the league without Kobe right now. Shaq's proved he's no longer than dominant force he once was where he could have a team built around him. He's still the most dominant force in the league but still you never know what Shaq you are going to get. |
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04-26-2006, 03:46 PM
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#105 |
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Kobes the best individual player in basketball, unfortunately this isint the MLB so being the best player SHOULDNT help you win the MVP award since the NBA is in many ways a team sport unlike baseball where you have guys doing their own things. It should be Lebron in all honesty... the guy was in the same position as Dirk only he had worse role players, a #2 guy out most of the season, and a way worse coach... yet put up crazy numbers (as expected). So what if hes East? Not his fault, Dirks in the toughest conference and Lebrons in the second toughest conference (but that might be arguable... since every team in Bron's div. got into the playoffs).
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04-26-2006, 03:51 PM
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#106 | |
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Diamond Member
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You've gotta be kidding me. As I remember, Kobe resigned with the Lakers AFTER (read: AFTER) the Shaq trade. If you believe that Kobe absolutely wouldn't have resigned if Shaq stayed on.. well you're free to believe it. It's all conjecture at this point. What I remember Shaq saying was that he wasn't happy with his lack of a contract extension and the direction of the franchise, so Shaq was going to leave whether or not Kobe stayed on board. It's a pretty weak argument to assume they'd have gotten either Maggette or Brand for Bryant as well. How can you assume the Clips would do a S&T with the Lakers or the other way around? I think Kobe probably would have gone East if anything, or just outright signed with the Clips with the other pieces intact. Hard to say for sure though. Look at the Lakers' opening day roster -- without Kobe -- compared to the Blazers of this year. The Blazers are clearly the more talented team and the Lakers would win 15 games or fewer. With Odom and Smush Parker as their only offensive weapons (combined with a complete lack of defensive weapons) the Lakers would be the worst team in the league. And Kobe's a better Stackhouse in his prime? Wow. Just wow. Stack has never played defense in his career and Kobe's a lockdown player with a lot more talent and a lot more athleticism. |
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04-26-2006, 03:53 PM
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#107 | |
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04-26-2006, 04:40 PM
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#108 | |
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Mod or not, that is just stupid! I guess Stackhouse will go down as one of the greatest players in NBA history then? Pass that pipe fella!
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Last edited by Male30Dan; 04-26-2006 at 04:43 PM. |
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04-26-2006, 04:41 PM
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#109 | |
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04-26-2006, 06:18 PM
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#110 |
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lol male23dan is on a roll
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04-26-2006, 06:54 PM
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#111 | |
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Golden Member
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Sorry, don't buy it. I think Dirk should have been MVP, but there is no way an MVP be awarded to a guy whose team is the 7th seed in the playoffs with 45 wins. If you gave that team Nash and subtracted Kobe, they would have won 50 games. And Kwame Brown and Lamar Odom would be having career years.
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04-26-2006, 08:07 PM
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#112 | |
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Once again, how is me saying that Kobe is not the MVP of the league because he ran off Shaq a homerish thing to say? |
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04-26-2006, 10:00 PM
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#113 | |
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 His nuts have been in your mouth EVERY GAME of the year. For you to act like you don't think he should be the MVP is, (and I am in SUPER-Tyson here), ludicrous!!!
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04-26-2006, 10:01 PM
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#114 | |
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04-26-2006, 10:10 PM
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#115 | |
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You continually fail to address my question. Your insults have done absolutely nothing to help you address my question. It leads me to believe that you are incapable of doing so in an intelligent manner. Last edited by Murphy3; 04-26-2006 at 10:11 PM. |
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04-26-2006, 10:13 PM
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#116 | |
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04-26-2006, 10:14 PM
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#117 | |
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04-26-2006, 10:19 PM
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#118 | |
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You've once again failed to address that. Why is it homerism to hold him running Shaq out of LA against him? What sense does that make? I'm sorry, but if you run the most dominant center of the last decade off of your team because you want the spotlight on yourself, you're not a team player. Therefore, you are not THE MVP of the league. Once again, how does that make me a 'homer'? Your logic is nothing short of ...illogical. |
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04-26-2006, 10:24 PM
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#119 | |
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If your answer is anything short of YES DAN, I ABSOLUTELY CAN, HERE IS KOBE SAYING THAT HE RAN SHAQ OUT OF TOWN or YES DAN, I ABSOLUTELY CAN, HERE IS SHAQ SAYING THAT KOBE RAN HIM OUT OF TOWN then you are just swinging and missing, yet again... If you can't prove that, then it must be homerism, or, AGAIN, stupidity... I asked you to choose a few posts ago... I will ask you to choose again!
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Last edited by Male30Dan; 04-26-2006 at 10:24 PM. |
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04-26-2006, 10:28 PM
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#120 |
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It's pretty much accepted common knowledge, ya dumb peckerhead. So once again, how is it 'homerish' for me to say that he isn't the league MVP because he ran Shaq out of LA. Even if I don't 100% have the facts to prove it, how is it 'homerish'?
The bottom line is that it's not 'homerish'. It's something that many, many people believe regardless of who their favorite team is. |
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