Countermove - By David Lord

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by MavsX

well you have to give miller credit..he sure does have a positive attitude.

I'd be positive too if it mean I was getting out of Memphis. Management doesn't have a clue what they want over there and that Gasol move set their franchise back at least 3-5 years.

I really feel sorry for their fans. They were definitely cheated.

"I've never had more calls from people checking in and registering interest like they have since we made the trade for Pau," Wallace said. "They think we're in a deal mode. Some teams have an erroneous assumption we're just dropping money."


Hmm, I wonder why people would think that? Oh yeah! Maybe it's because you just handed one of the top power forwards in the NBA and your cornerstone player over to the Lakers for an expiring contract and garbage! Ya shmuck.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

This isn't exactly true. AK47 doesn't fit well in Utah right now because he has more of an inside game, and that game is locked up by Boozer posting square up where AK used to work. Look at the stats of AK when Boozer was out. He was a monster, and played his way into his contract. Boozer came along then, and is a more traditional post-up PF with beef. They tried to move AK47 out and make him into a jump shooter. That is not his game, he is an inside garbage man, who has a few post moves and cleans up the glass.

Why do I want him here, because that place is wide open in the Mavs offense. No one really plays there. They clear it out so Dirk, Josh, or Devin can go one on one. Either that, or they try to set a few screens, and end up with a series of 20 possessions in a row that they shoot jump shots. AK or JO or (insert name of player with some inside game) could really work the inside, and still be a garbage man cleaning up the boards on the backside -- and allow Dirk to be a catch and shoot guy again, instead of a Tim Duncan want to be.
Don't get me wrong, Dirk is adapting well to his role, but he is more effective when he is out on the floor with cutters, and multiple picks, and forcing his game, instead of trying to play with his back to the basket.

Add to this that Harris, JHO, AK47,Dirk, Damp/Diop is one pretty devastating DEFENSE. AK/Diop help erase the defensive issues on the perimeter. Also when you went to small ball, AK47 at the PF wouldn't be a bad thing either.




I like the idea of Miller. I am not sure what the Mavs would have to give up to get him though. If they are talking using KVH (which I don't think they should), then they also need to add Wally to that list of players they might use KVH for. I don't see much difference in Wally and MMiller.

You make some good points about Kirilenko but frankly the lineup you just mentioned would be an AWFUL shooting linup. Frankly I cringe at the idea of Josh starting at 2.

And you are WAY off base equating Miller to Wally. If you're comparing Miller to Wally 4 years ago, then sure. Now? Not so much.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You make some good points about Kirilenko but frankly the lineup you just mentioned would be an AWFUL shooting linup. Frankly I cringe at the idea of Josh starting at 2.

And you are WAY off base equating Miller to Wally. If you're comparing Miller to Wally 4 years ago, then sure. Now? Not so much.

Let's see on the Wally/Miller question

Miller 1" taller , Wally about 20lbs heavier, Wally 3 years older, Wally one more year in the league.

Mike Miller
05-06 MEM 74 30.6 46.6 80.0 40.7 5.4 2.7 0.7 0.4 13.7
06-07 MEM 70 39.1 46.0 79.3 40.6 5.4 4.3 0.8 0.3 18.5
07-08 MEM 48 37.2 50.6 79.6 43.0 6.6 3.7 0.5 0.2 17.0
Wally
05-06 BOS 72 38.0 48.7 89.7 40.0 4.3 3.0 0.6 0.3 19.0
06-07 BOS 32 28.1 41.5 89.7 41.5 3.1 1.7 0.6 0.1 15.0
07-08 SEA 48 23.7 46.3 84.6 42.4 2.7 1.4 0.3 0.1 13.1


Hum... Wally isn't playing the minutes this year, so his scoring is down, but when he played closer to the 38min that Miller is playing, he avg just about as many points.

FG% isn't too far off, 3pt% isn't too far off. Miller is the better rebounder. Wally the better FT shooter.

I just don't see the major difference in these two players. I am not saying that Miller isn't a little better, nor am I saying that he wouldn't be the better fit. I am saying that they bring basically the same skillset in general. I also don't see how I am WAY off base.

Now as to the lineup not having shooters....Dirk is a shooter. Dallas will always have a shooter on the floor with Dirk. JHo has become a shooter (not that I am really happy with that). Josh plays like a SG all the time now. I would rather have AK trying to score on the inside, than Eddie Jones hoisting up 3's. JHo isn't going to have to change his game.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

FG% isn't too far off, 3pt% isn't too far off. Miller is the better rebounder. Wally the better FT shooter.

I just don't see the major difference in these two players. I am not saying that Miller isn't a little better, nor am I saying that he wouldn't be the better fit. I am saying that they bring basically the same skillset in general. I also don't see how I am WAY off base.

Wally is basically nothing more than a spot up shooter these days. Miller can slash; he's not great at it but compared to Wally he's friggin Dwayne Wade. He can also play some point (something this team REALLY needs in a shooting guard) and is an adequate defender (which Wally isn't.) Yes, you're off base equating the two. It's sorta like equating Garnett to Odom. Okay, maybe not the bad, but still, just not the same. Like I said, Wally 3 years ago or so was a similar player, but he's pretty much just a shooter these days. That said, I'd still take him at 2 over anything we have right now.

Now as to the lineup not having shooters....Dirk is a shooter. Dallas will always have a shooter on the floor with Dirk. JHo has become a shooter (not that I am really happy with that). Josh plays like a SG all the time now. I would rather have AK trying to score on the inside, than Eddie Jones hoisting up 3's. JHo isn't going to have to change his game.

Dirk is a good three point shooter, and Josh may shoot a decent percentage, but neither of those guys are going to be necessarily looking to shoot three's. As long as Avery coaches this team, Dirk is going to be trying to get the majority of his points in the mid-post. And Josh? Josh isn't going to be spotting up at all (nor should he.) Josh may be trying to play like a 2, but he looks pretty awful doing it at times. Like I said, I cringe at the idea of Josh Howard as our starting shooting guard.

Devin/Josh/AK/Dirk/Damp would be a monstrous defensive lineup, but would have a very hard time spreading the defense.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Dirk is a good three point shooter, and Josh may shoot a decent percentage, but neither of those guys are going to be necessarily looking to shoot three's. As long as Avery coaches this team, Dirk is going to be trying to get the majority of his points in the mid-post. And Josh? Josh isn't going to be spotting up at all (nor should he.) Josh may be trying to play like a 2, but he looks pretty awful doing it at times. Like I said, I cringe at the idea of Josh Howard as our starting shooting guard.

Devin/Josh/AK/Dirk/Damp would be a monstrous defensive lineup, but would have a very hard time spreading the defense.

I find myself questioning this lately....he needs to be, because without him we have exactly 1 truly good 3 pt shooter (Terry). And that's exactly why I want Miller.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

I find myself questioning this lately....he needs to be, because without him we have exactly 1 truly good 3 pt shooter (Terry). And that's exactly why I want Miller.

He is, and Eddie Jones is too. Even if they're not hitting a good percentage this year, neither of them are going to be ignored by the defense the way that guys like Buckner or Griffin were. But like I said, it's almost a moot point with Dirk because he spends so little of his time behind the perimeter now. He'll take open shots, sure, but he's not necessarily looking for 3pt shots. Eddie OTOH can still spread the defense, but a shooting guard as slow as he is he can only do so much for the team, and if he's not hitting a high percentage either, then it's going to be tough.

But yeah, we're in agreement. We need Miller.

Unfortunately, it looks like Miller is the most sought-after player in the league right now. I'm not too optimistic about getting him.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

He is, and Eddie Jones is too. Even if they're not hitting a good percentage this year, neither of them are going to be ignored by the defense the way that guys like Buckner or Griffin were. But like I said, it's almost a moot point with Dirk because he spends so little of his time behind the perimeter now. He'll take open shots, sure, but he's not necessarily looking for 3pt shots. Eddie OTOH can still spread the defense, but a shooting guard as slow as he is he can only do so much for the team, and if he's not hitting a high percentage either, then it's going to be tough.

But yeah, we're in agreement. We need Miller.

Unfortunately, it looks like Miller is the most sought-after player in the league right now. I'm not too optimistic about getting him.

I'm still waiting for Eddie to really light it up, because I know he can. Any guy in the top 10 in NBA history of 3 pointers made can light it up. But until he does it for us, I have to reserve judgment.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

I have a thread in the Trade section about this but I didn't talk about their SF position and didn't include George in the deal. He does works salary-wise, though.

Jason Terry, Diop, Devean George, two future first rounders and possibly cash considerations in exchange for Kirilenko.

Utah's Lineup:
Okur / Diop
Boozer / Millsap / Harpring
Korver / George / Harpring
Brewer / Terry
D.Williams / Terry / Hart

Dallas' Lineup:
Damp / Ju.Howard
Dirk / Bass
Kirilenko / Jones
Howard / Stackhouse / Hassell
Harris / Barea

Don't we make the Jazz better in this deal? Better than before? If i'm the Jazz i'd jump all over this deal. Boozer and Williams have already showed their displeasure of Kirilenko's lack of play in the post season last year. I don't know about that deal. I think we have to be careful with trading within the Western Conference. I can see Terry and Korver just lightning up teams in the post season. I look at the Mavs roster after the deal and I don't see any consistent shooters from outside of the field on the team aside from Dirk. This is the NBA so when I say consistent I don't mean shoot 50% from the field every night but I can see no good from the outside with Stackhouse, Howard, Harris and Jones being our perimeter threats come playoff time.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

I find myself questioning this lately....he needs to be, because without him we have exactly 1 truly good 3 pt shooter (Terry). And that's exactly why I want Miller.

That's where my problem comes when trading away JET. As of right now i'm not confident in this teams outside shooting with JET and Dirk on the team. Get rid of JET and this team is going to be a complete mess in the post season. Everyone wants to get rid of JET and that's fine. Outside of his shooting i'm not high on him at all. I think his defense is so bad it offsets any jumpers he hits for us during the game anyway. But be careful what you wish for. JET's departure will definately be missed if we don't get more shooting. I'm not high on Mike Miller as everyone else on this board he better be what we replace JET with if we must move him. I still think this team needs more inside scoring though. Whether it be a slasher or from a 4 or 5 to bring in.

I'm seeing a lot of talk about the Mavs needing a 2. No question its the weakest position on the team because we really don't have one aside from Eddie Jones and Jerry Stackhouse on his last legs. I think the Mavs can live with being weak at the 2 spot. Its not about the position. You can be weak at a certain position and still win in this league. I think its the fact this team doesn't have a consistent slasher on it is what this team lacks. He can be a 3 or a 2 for all I care.

[BGMaverick9]

I think we're using the term "good" very loosely, in regards to some of the mavs with 3 point shooting. I don't buy that Jones has been good. He hasn't really shown that consistently. He makes the defense respect it a bit, but he hasn't come through a lot.

It still comes down to Maggette and Miller for me. We have to get one of those two, if not both.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I think we're using the term "good" very loosely, in regards to some of the mavs with 3 point shooting. I don't buy that Jones has been good. He hasn't really shown that consistently. He makes the defense respect it a bit, but he hasn't come through a lot.

It still comes down to Maggette and Miller for me. We have to get one of those two, if not both.

Eddie hasn't been "very good" this year. He's been phenominal through his career though.

[BGMaverick9]

I'll believe that, but there has to a come a time where that actually pays off for us.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Unfortunately, it looks like Miller is the most sought-after player in the league right now. I'm not too optimistic about getting him.

The funny thing is, I think the Grizzlies are going to get more out of dealing Mike Miller than they got out of the Gasol deal. I don't think anyone would have guessed that 3 weeks ago.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

The funny thing is, I think the Grizzlies are going to get more out of dealing Mike Miller than they got out of the Gasol deal. I don't think anyone would have guessed that 3 weeks ago.

Crazy isn't it? The question is, who are the potential suitors for Miller, and what kind of deal could they put together?

Outside of the Mavs, it seems (off the top of my head) the teams that would benefit with Miller the most are Denver and San Antonio. Miami also makes sense (a deal would obviously involve Ricky Davis' expiring contract.

San Antonio worries me. Between Horry, Finley, Elson, and Barry they've got around 14 mil in expiring contracts, plus a couple of young players.

I wonder what Memphis really wants though. Do they just want to do a complete salary dump, or do they actually want some players to build around?

[endrity]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Crazy isn't it? The question is, who are the potential suitors for Miller, and what kind of deal could they put together?

Outside of the Mavs, it seems (off the top of my head) the teams that would benefit with Miller the most are Denver and San Antonio. Miami also makes sense (a deal would obviously involve Ricky Davis' expiring contract.

San Antonio worries me. Between Horry, Finley, Elson, and Barry they've got around 14 mil in expiring contracts, plus a couple of young players.

I wonder what Memphis really wants though. Do they just want to do a complete salary dump, or do they actually want some players to build around?

The Spurs are not giving up Udoka, Mahinmi, or Splitter's rights for Miller. They are high on all these guys and see them as the next cast to provide help for Duncan. Whatever we ore SA offer, it will be very similiar. Expiring contract, maybe picks, and cash.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by endrity

The Spurs are not giving up Udoka, Mahinmi, or Splitter's rights for Miller.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. I could easily see them moving one of them for Miller.

Whatever we ore SA offer, it will be very similiar. Expiring contract, maybe picks, and cash.

We don't have any expiring contracts, at least not any big ones. Devean George's deal is up this year at 2 mil, but that's not going to entice anyone. Like I said in the other thread, Stack has two years left. San Antonio OTOH has Horry, Barry, Finley, and Elson all expiring.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Eddie hasn't been "very good" this year. He's been phenominal through his career though.

Eddie doesn't look for his shot enough. He's been passing some up for worse shots. He looks tentative out there.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

12:02 AM CST on Monday, February 11, 2008
Dallas Mavericks deal with trade rumors
By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. – Mark Cuban is used to the routine by now.

The Mavericks were a first-name-on-the-list trade destination for Kevin Garnett last summer. They were the first team linked to Kobe Bryant's trade request in the preseason.

And they were No. 1 out of the gate in the Jason Kidd derby.

They are the default setting, the clearinghouse where all trade rumors go to get jump-started.

"And it never happens. Never," Cuban said Sunday. "It's just part of the drill. Everybody explores. Everybody's hoping that somebody gives up. Then it becomes economics, which is what we major in. If it's an economics deal, then we're fine. If it's a player deal, then it's more difficult."

Cuban reiterated that speculation about the Mavericks trading for Kidd is almost certainly wrong.

If the Nets were willing to take pennies on the dollar, of course Cuban would be interested. But he said that if such a deal ever gets close, it's unlikely that the media, and therefore the public, will know about it.

Just like they didn't know the Mavericks had made early overtures about Shaquille O'Neal. That's because Cuban made the calls himself, directly to Miami owner Mickey Arizon.

"[That happens] more than you think," Cuban said of the owner-to-owner chats. "That's why, with us, you never hear of stuff coming out before it's done. The trades you hear about are the ones that are speculated on or that" writers conjure up.

"Those are the ones that never happen."

Cuban didn't close the door on the Mavericks doing something before the trading deadline. But it seems unlikely. He said that's why the Mavericks kept their mid-level exception this summer rather than use it on a free agent or two. If somebody wants to buy out a player – say, Sam Cassell, Smush Parker or somebody of that ilk – the Mavericks would have more than $5 million to spend.

Kidd said the Nets' 19-point stomping of the Mavericks had "no special meaning" to him.

As for the thought that Kidd would put the Mavericks over the top, Cuban said Devin Harris, who is 10 years younger than Kidd, is a "top-five point guard. I don't think there's any question he's got that potential. We track every number known to man, and he's tracking on that path right now."

Although, Cuban added, there's always an opportunity to upgrade.

Link

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Mike Miller To Miami?

Pencil Mike Miller as the next guy traded, or so he believes. Miller has told people close to him that he fully expects to be traded before the Feb. 21st trade deadline, and according to sources close to the situation it's likely going to be to Miami for Jason Williams' ending contract or Ricky Davis depending on who you talk to. Nothing is ever done until it's done, but if Miami does trigger the deal, the HEAT will have radically improved themselves without ever hitting free agency. Why would Memphis consider such a move? Word is the Grizz would get cash from Miami in the deal and ultimately buyout Jason shedding yet another guaranteed deal and setting up the Grizz to be one of the biggest players in free agency (and likely Chicago's biggest nemesis in keeping Ben Gordon). The HEAT are not the only team with eyes for Mike Miller, there are other suitors (Miller could be Dallas' fallback plan). It seems if the HEAT and Grizz are serious about a deal, there doesn't appear to be much in the way of it happening before the 21st.

Link

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Don't we make the Jazz better in this deal? Better than before? If i'm the Jazz i'd jump all over this deal. Boozer and Williams have already showed their displeasure of Kirilenko's lack of play in the post season last year. I don't know about that deal. I think we have to be careful with trading within the Western Conference. I can see Terry and Korver just lightning up teams in the post season. I look at the Mavs roster after the deal and I don't see any consistent shooters from outside of the field on the team aside from Dirk. This is the NBA so when I say consistent I don't mean shoot 50% from the field every night but I can see no good from the outside with Stackhouse, Howard, Harris and Jones being our perimeter threats come playoff time.

In order to get them to move Kirilenko you would have to give them something that would make them better or otherwise they won't even think about it. Yeah it would be risky because you could be creating a monster in Utah, but at the same time you have a chance at something really special in Dallas. I think this would definitely improve our team and make us the favorites.

[MavsX]

Smush Parker !?

i swear to god if that mother F*cker becomes a mav, i will sell my mav $hit, close out my dallas-mavs.com account, and become a suns fan..then kill myself!!!!!!!!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by MavsX

Smush Parker !?

i swear to god if that mother F*cker becomes a mav, i will sell my mav $hit, close out my dallas-mavs.com account, and become a suns fan..then kill myself!!!!!!!!

Why wait for Smush?

[MavsX]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Why wait for Smush?

I'm kinda confused, as to what you're talking about.

In the article i mentions smush for the mavs...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by MavsX

I'm kinda confused, as to what you're talking about.

In the article i mentions smush for the mavs...

I'm saying, why wait for Smush to sell your Mavs $hit, close out your dallas-mavs.com account, become a Suns fan, then kill yourself?

This site is starting to look like a suicide cult these days - is there a comet coming or something?