New coach possibilities - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

mqywaaah · 05-01-2008, 06:42 AM

Rick Carlisle. I don't like D'Antoni's defensive theories.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-01-2008, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HexNBA

Whats with the Carisle love here? What's he ever done that makes people want him to coach this team. To me, he's all system too, my way or highway type coach that made Avery such a douche. Of course, even that would be a better solution than Mark apparently wanting to put Donnie on the sidelines (per ESPN)

Honestly I think most coaches, just about all of them in fact are "all system, my way or highway" types. The difference with Avery was that he didn't really have a system at all. He just acted like he did and threw bizarre lineups out there on a whim.

I've often heard people accuse Carlisle of micromanaging, but I've never seen it. As for what he's done to make people want him? Well... he's been a good coach...

SeriousSummer · 05-01-2008, 08:41 AM

Rick Carlisle has good hair. Rick Perry is governor of Texas and his most important qualification is good hair.

I say, if it's good enough for Texas, then it's good enough for the Mavs.

purplefrog · 05-01-2008, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Honestly I think most coaches, just about all of them in fact are "all system, my way or highway" types. The difference with Avery was that he didn't really have a system at all. He just acted like he did and threw bizarre lineups out there on a whim.

I've often heard people accuse Carlisle of micromanaging, but I've never seen it. As for what he's done to make people want him? Well... he's been a good coach...

Maybe I've got Carlisle all wrong but isn't he a half-court offense grind it out coach? How does that approach work with JKidd and Dirk? Seems to me like you are right back where you left off with Avery, albeit the possibility exists Carlisle does it better.

Flip41 · 05-01-2008, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Maybe I've got Carlisle all wrong but isn't he a half-court offense grind it out coach? How does that approach work with JKidd and Dirk? Seems to me like you are right back where you left off with Avery, albeit the possibility exists Carlisle does it better.

That's what I thought also.

Dirkenstien · 05-01-2008, 01:56 PM

Eddie Jordan is sounding like a nice fit but I wouldn't mind seeing Carlisle or Van Gundy in here. All three of those guys know infinitely more about coaching than that other guy we just fired.

seelenjaeger · 05-01-2008, 02:23 PM

Just because I have that kind of a feeling - Dunleavy.

ddh33 · 05-01-2008, 02:33 PM

I have sort of gotten the impression that Donnie is going to be the lead man on this search. I think he's going to sort through the candidates and then go to Mark with a recommendation. At that point, whoever the coach is will need to impress the owner...

Carlisle sounds like he might be the first interview, but I don't think he'll be the last.

I would say to really keep an eye out on Van Gundy. People talk about him being a micromanager and running everything methodically, but he was also on Big Nellie's staff in New York, as I recall. He's also the guy who went small and ran the Knicks to the Finals a few years ago. You can talk about him playing slow, but then, his talent kind of dictated that too. He might love to play quicker in Dallas, and I have even heard him say that he liked Dirk as the backup 5 in Dallas...So keep an eye out for him. This could be a fit.

Kidd Karma · 05-01-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqywaaah

Rick Carlisle. I don't like D'Antoni's defensive theories.

D'Antoni has defensive theories??

Kidd Karma · 05-01-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monty55555

I'm not saying you should hire a coach for one player's abilities. I'm just saying that Eddie Jordan would be one coach who could maximize Kidd's potential.

I don't think this is a hire just for Kidd. If you got guys that can put the ball in the hole, both ways from the perimeter or at the cup, then the motion offense maximizes all 5 plyaers on the court. I mean you have Damp setting a brush screen for a Dirk jump shot, that may not be there, Damp rolls to the cup and is wide open for a dunk, it's the little things using all 5 players in motion. I mean basically ISO Dirk becomes 1 on 5, ou lose Damp, Kidd, the rest of the guys on the floor. Honestly it doesn't even have to be Jordan, I mean my thought is to hire the guy that can command a lockerroom, make game adjustments, and coach the final 2 minutes of every quarter like it was the last 2 minutes of his life. Bring in an O coordinator and a D coordinator.

Caseman · 05-01-2008, 02:41 PM

Skin would be a great coach, but I don't want him to stop doing his show.

Flacolaco · 05-01-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

D'Antoni has defensive theories??

He's very defensive about not talking about defense.

dalmations202 · 05-01-2008, 02:49 PM

Can we get Houston to fire Adelman, and then hire Van Gundy for defense?

If we hire Van Gundy or Carlisle, I hope they keep Westphal, and utilize him.

Just from the outside looking in, Donnie still seems like the best fit.

LonghornDub · 05-01-2008, 02:52 PM

I've said it before, and I'll say it again--we don't want Adelman. He's probably a better coach than Avery, but we can do better.

dalmations202 · 05-01-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

I've said it before, and I'll say it again--we don't want Adelman. He's probably a better coach than Avery, but we can do better.

I'd take Adelman anytime.... as long as you get him a defensive assistant.

I like his high/low passing offense. I think Dirk would thrive where Yao is positioned at now or CWebb use to be.

I just don't like his defense.

fluid.forty.one · 05-01-2008, 03:35 PM

I doubt Van Gundy would want to be an assistant... how bout a tandem of Adelman/Del Harris?

dalmations202 · 05-01-2008, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I doubt Van Gundy would want to be an assistant... how bout a tandem of Adelman/Del Harris?

Love the idea, but isn't Del like 70+. I think consulting is what he is wanting to do now.

fluid.forty.one · 05-01-2008, 03:38 PM

hmm possibly. Unless what Flaco, I think, brought up is true... it would say loads about Avery if Del decided he wanted to come back to the bench now.

LonghornDub · 05-01-2008, 03:42 PM

JVG/Carlisle > Adelman

fluid.forty.one · 05-01-2008, 03:43 PM

I dunno, bro. I have a bad feeling that JVG and Carlisle wouldn't be able to maximize Dirk anymore than Avery did... and this team lives and dies by Dirk.

LonghornDub · 05-01-2008, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I dunno, bro. I have a bad feeling that JVG and Carlisle wouldn't be able to maximize Dirk anymore than Avery did... and this team lives and dies by Dirk.

That's fine and good, and may be the case, but Adelman is not the answer.

dalmations202 · 05-01-2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

JVG/Carlisle > Adelman

this might be true, but I think both JVG and Carlisle are considered defensive minds, and not offensive ones.

Adelman kicked the JVG Houston team in offensive gear.
He also had a pretty potent offensively Sac squad for many years.

I like his offense philosophy, and his sets.

LonghornDub · 05-01-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

this might be true, but I think both JVG and Carlisle are considered defensive minds, and not offensive ones.

Adelman kicked the JVG Houston team in offensive gear.
He also had a pretty potent offensively Sac squad for many years.

I like his offense philosophy, and his sets.

His offensive philosophy certainly isn't bad, but that Sac team was also stacked, stacked, stacked. Houston is currently averaging less PPG than any team in the playoffs. Now, granted, they are missing their best player, so I'll have to go easy on him there. But even at the beginning of the year, Rockets fans were very concerned with the way Adelman was running the offense.

I wasn't much of Adelman in his Portland days, and he really hasn't shown me much. However, I do understand the concerns as far as JVG/Carlisle go.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-01-2008, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Maybe I've got Carlisle all wrong but isn't he a half-court offense grind it out coach? How does that approach work with JKidd and Dirk? Seems to me like you are right back where you left off with Avery, albeit the possibility exists Carlisle does it better.

Carlisle certainly put in a grind-it-out offense with the Pacers and the Artest era Pistons. After they traded Artest for Peja he really tried to make the Pacers play a fast-paced, free-flowing offense, and had some success doing it.

Again, my problem with people comparing him to Avery is the fact that Avery never understood defense either. Honestly I never understood where people ever got the idea that Avery was some kind of defensive guru. Avery only talked about defense. He would still throw lineups out there that couldn't stop the other team's 12th men from scoring.

Carlisle strikes me as the kind of guy who will coach the kind of game that will best suit his personnel. So, of course he focused on defense with those Detroit and Indiana teams.

But most of all, why I want Carlisle, is that of the available coaches out there, he's the only one that is even remotely appealing. I mean, seriously, D'antoni? No thanks. Van Gundy? Good god, no.

dirno2000 · 05-01-2008, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

His offensive philosophy certainly isn't bad, but that Sac team was also stacked, stacked, stacked. Houston is currently averaging less PPG than any team in the playoffs. Now, granted, they are missing their best player, so I'll have to go easy on him there. But even at the beginning of the year, Rockets fans were very concerned with the way Adelman was running the offense.

I wasn't much of Adelman in his Portland days, and he really hasn't shown me much. However, I do understand the concerns as far as JVG/Carlisle go.

That impressive thing about Adleman is that his best SAC teams lead the league in pace but still managed to finish in the top 10 in defensive efficiency. His 2003 was first in pace and finished second in defensive efficiency. That's a pretty rare combo. Usually teams that run like that tend to be a little lax on the defensive end.

purplefrog · 05-01-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Carlisle certainly put in a grind-it-out offense with the Pacers and the Artest era Pistons. After they traded Artest for Peja he really tried to make the Pacers play a fast-paced, free-flowing offense, and had some success doing it.

Again, my problem with people comparing him to Avery is the fact that Avery never understood defense either. Honestly I never understood where people ever got the idea that Avery was some kind of defensive guru. Avery only talked about defense. He would still throw lineups out there that couldn't stop the other team's 12th men from scoring.

Carlisle strikes me as the kind of guy who will coach the kind of game that will best suit his personnel. So, of course he focused on defense with those Detroit and Indiana teams.

But most of all, why I want Carlisle, is that of the available coaches out there, he's the only one that is even remotely appealing. I mean, seriously, D'antoni? No thanks. Van Gundy? Good god, no.

I agree with Dantony and JVG. But if you look at the team stats for the Pacers during the Carlisle years here is what you see:

03-04 Season
Offense Rating: 9th in NBA
Defense Rating: 3rd
Pace: 26th

04-05 Season
Offense Rating: 18th
Defense Rating: 11
Pace: 29th

05-06 Season
Offense Rating: 21st
Defense Rating: 3rd
Pace: 20th

06-07 Season
Offense Rating: 30th
Defense Rating: 9th
Pace: 10th

The question I continue to have is what happens to Dirk and Kidd in an offense that ranks towards the bottom of the league? I'm just looking at the numbers and I realize that might not reflect Carlisle's philosophy. However, I'd hate to see management reason that Carlisle is the best available coach, so now let's go out and find the players to fit his style. Does this mean Kidd and Dirk become expendable? Maybe these are the cards being dealt to the Mavs and they have to make due, but it seems to me that this isn't a match made in heaven.

I wish I had a better option. but the fact is that I don't!

DirkFTW · 05-01-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

D'Antoni has defensive theories??

"The best defense is a great offense. Hit them before they hit you."
-D'Antoni

Thespiralgoeson · 05-01-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

The question I continue to have is what happens to Dirk and Kidd in an offense that ranks towards the bottom of the league? I'm just looking at the numbers and I realize that might not reflect Carlisle's philosophy. However, I'd hate to see management reason that Carlisle is the best available coach, so now let's go out and find the players to fit his style. Does this mean Kidd and Dirk become expendable? Maybe these are the cards being dealt to the Mavs and they have to make due, but it seems to me that this isn't a match made in heaven.

I wish I had a better option. but the fact is that I don't!

Well those are the cold, hard facts aren't they? There aren't really any better options out there. If Cuban had been smart, he would've fired Avery last year and gone after Adleman. Still though, I think Carlisle is more flexible than people realize.

kenny9 · 05-01-2008, 06:45 PM

my two cents...rick carlisle and JVG...are good coachs..but in rebuilding situations....sure they did good jobs with the pistons, knicks, rockets & pistons. This team if we are to understand correctly, wants to win a championship. JVG did not get houston out of the first round, and if i understand correctly, but I maybe wrong, but for most of those years, houston struggled with the offense, while they were a great defensive team, the offense just sucked, they never ran it through mcgrady, and JVG was huge proponent of Alston's PG skills, which is somewhat better to Terry. So how would someone like Kidd stand? Carlisle, well he rebuilt Detroit and Pacers, but did he take them over the hump? no...Pistons won the year he was out as coach. He is more of a yes man, and if now its true Cuban wants to be Jerry junior in this town, then by all means Rick is the best man for the job, however, Mark needs to look at the stats he sees all the time, for that past 10 years, there have been four coaches that have won the championships. Two of which are still coaching the playoffs and will not even leave their teams. One of them just took a job with a team to rebuild. The other one, well he just quit to become team prez....You want a proven winner, you give the man who is a team prez not only coaching but more to help build you a winner, so that you can win a championship. I hope I speak for all of us, that we all one atleast a championship here in Dallas at all cost, and for me selfishly, I would like to see Dirk win it with us! I somehow see him like a John Elway of the NBA who is loyal to this franchise. Everyone talks about KG's loyalties to Minnesota that he would never have asked for a trade, well we have one of those birds, and as much as he played crap last year, he did so much for us this year, and two years ago he played his ass off to get us to the finals. Dallas overachieved only by Dirk's hand and nothing else.

I also do not mind Mike D'Antoni coming here, but only if and only he is willing to incorporate the defense Del Harris had two years ago with some offense opening. These Mavs did play good D...the problem was without Diop, they lost offensive rebounding and a great shot blocker. Damp is good agaisnt traditional centers and weak teams, unfortunately, there are no more traditional centers, there are only athletic centers. I do not know if its true or not, but if its possible Diop is free this summer, then the mavs must sign him at all cost, and I do think we should give Magloire a chance in camp, he does have a little better shooting range than Damp. Imagine Diop's length against Chandler's length for that last play against NO...who here with me believes Chandler would not have tapped that out had Diop been in the game at the time.

I will end this by saying regardless of what else happens, I don't care if you dont get value or not, Josh Howard has to go. He is the biggest absolute idiot in this world. I say you trade him to the Cavs. I know James wanted him as a teammate. Or how about Jamison...he is a free agent, how about a sign&trade.

Josh only cares for his numbers and his numbers only. We all said he was better than Finley, but that was because Finley stopped attacking the basket growing older and that's natural as you get older you settle for jump shots. MJ is the perfect example of it, however, Josh who was a slasher last year got it in his head he was an all-star who can shoot, the problem is he is now worse than what Finely is, and he has the worst b-ball IQ ever. As much as the finals hurts us and we want to blame the refs and blah blah, remember J-Ho is the one who called that infamous time out during the free throws when we could've advanced the ball after the free throw!

enough rambling here..just had to get it off my chest!!

jthig32 · 05-01-2008, 07:07 PM

Carlisle did not rebuild the Pacers. And they were well on their way to establishing themselves as the best team in the East (when that meant something) the year Ron Artest decided he needed to keep it real by starting a riot.

Also, Larry Bird gives Carlisle a very, very large amount of the credit for those late 90's Pacers teams that were so good, and went to the Finals in 2000.

I'm talking myself into Carlilsle more and more.

purplefrog · 05-01-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Well those are the cold, hard facts aren't they? There aren't really any better options out there. If Cuban had been smart, he would've fired Avery last year and gone after Adleman. Still though, I think Carlisle is more flexible than people realize.

I hope so because he may very well be the best option available.

Tokey41 · 05-01-2008, 07:44 PM

The mere fact that he was even able to coach the Pacers into the playoffs for so many years (despite all the turmoil with that broken franchise) shows me he is capable of working with what he is dealt. Odd that they didn't make it this year... the year he wasn't on the sidelines.

Has he won anything? No. But I don't think anyone who is available has any championship experience either. The one thing people are forgetting when labelling Carlisle a grind it out type of coach is that his teams have always been best suited for that style of play (I mean it was the east). Who knows what he can do with Kidd and Dirk? Maybe he will give Kidd offensive freedom, at least more than what Avery did.

BGMaverick9 · 05-01-2008, 08:07 PM

Who are the assistants someone mentioned that Carlisle had lined up to be his future staff?

Dirkadirkastan · 05-01-2008, 08:18 PM

Anyone else find themselves habitually glancing over posts like Kenny's and end up skipping them altogether?

ShaggyDirk · 05-01-2008, 08:20 PM

who killed him?

BGMaverick9 · 05-01-2008, 08:27 PM

the bastard, that's who.

This is going to be a hire that is going to be hated by half of the community one way or another, I think. When Nellie was gone I think we figured Avery would be ok and so on and so forth.

Now it's a new time, we know where we are at and it's obvious there are 2, 3, or 4 options that everyone has an interest in. It's going to be interesting, to say the least.

antisticky · 05-01-2008, 08:28 PM

BG, I think I remember Carlisle mentioning Dwayne Casey's name (former Wolves head coach) as his lead assistant if he gets to be coach somewhere.

BGMaverick9 · 05-01-2008, 08:32 PM

was Casey an offensive minded guy in Minnesota? If he was, I'd be interesting to see what the end result was with what was a pretty big mess in Minnesota.

Burn this City · 05-01-2008, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Anyone else find themselves habitually glancing over posts like Kenny's and end up skipping them altogether?

I'm too lazy to go beyond 5 sentences...

antisticky · 05-01-2008, 09:58 PM

I think he was more of a defensive guy in Minnesota.

In 05-06, the Wolves were 22nd in the league in pace and in 06-07 (of which he only coached for half a year) they were again 22nd. Offensive efficiency was 15th in 05-06, and 27th in 06-07.

His PGs those years were an injured Cassell + Hudson and Jaric + Hudson....gross. So he's never had a PG quite like Kidd and its hard to speculate on what kind of offense he might help install.

But nothing in his past suggests he likes running or that he's good at coaching offense.