2-3: Mavs lose to Denver

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

I still think one of the main things we need is an offensive low post threat.

Also, I hate how we can't force any opposing big men into foul trouble. Kenyon Martin had 3 fouls and Nene had two fouls for the game meanwhile Diop had 5 and Damp had 4. We simply don't put enough pressure on opposing big men to defend and with a point guard like Jason Kidd who can feed the post better than anyone in the league that is just utterly unacceptable. We allow their guys to save all of their energy for the offensive end and destroy our defensive centers by forcing them to foul.

Edit: I know a lot of people don't like the idea of this but I wouldn't mind acquiring Eddy Curry to be our second Center. Even though he's fat and slow he is excellent on the offensive end, is athletic, and has great hands. At this point I'd be up for a Stack and Bass for Curry type of trade but would probably even be willing to do a Damp for Curry. Curry was doing pretty well in NY until Randolph came and really screwed their spacing and player roles up.

I also wouldn't mind curry. I'm pretty tired of having nothing offensively AT ALL inside.

[dude1394]

eek...double post.

[monty55555]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I just watched the game on my DVR. Wish I hadn't wasted my time. Stackhouse is so bad, jeez.

He has been horrendous. He might as well play for the other team because when he enters the game, he is an instant negative impact to the Mavs and thus, a positive impact for the opposing team.

Not only has he had no effect, he has had a negative effect. When he enters the game, I just look for my remote control and pause the game and forward it to when he is gone. He is shortening my life every single time he is on the floor.

And it pains me that Stack is playing over Green at this point. Green has obviously been the spark this team has needed. He is instant offense and he is the only guy who can drive/actively cut to the basket. He has a good jump shot and although his defense can still improve, he hasn't done anything to merit being benched in favor of Stack. Stack's play clearly hasn't given the coaching staff reason to play him more than Green. I am not saying that Green is the savior of this team right now... but he clearly deserves more playing time than Stack.

For the love of all that is good and holy Rick, open your eyes.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by monty55555

He is shortening my life every single time he is on the floor.
.

Funny...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I'm not sure I see much difference between stack and wright right now. If I were Carlisle at least getting stack out of his slump provides a player and a better trade chip. Wright....he just looks lost without a track record of knowing what he's doing out there.

I know he's "young" but he's been in the league 3 years now and his ceiling doesn't seem that high anyway. He's not showing enough to get minutes either.

They both are a wash, whereas one has some skins and possibly some trade value to a younger team...wright...not so much.

Offensively I agree. However Wright still plays solid defense, something you can't say about Stack.

[jthig32]

I'm going to say this one more time about Curry. You can not in one breath complain about Bass and Dirk playing together so much, because of the problems it creates defensively, and then throw out the idea of acquiring Eddy Curry.

If you're willing to sacrifice the defense for the offense, fine, but defense is the problem right now, not offense, imo.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by ddh33

I didn't make myself clear. I don't like Bass at the 5. The team gets hurt on the boards, and they get killed on defense. It just doesn't work well.

Unfortunately, Damp and Diop haven't produced like they need to. They have to do more than foul. They need to occasionally score; and that weakness is getting more and more magnified, by the way. When they don't play well, Bass is the only other option...

I think Bass' scoring helps at times, but it's not always enough to overcome the other problems.

I know that everyone is concerned about the starting 2 and the backup 1, but my biggest concern is the 5 position. I just don't like it right now.

This is, in my opinion, a knee jerk. The centers played the entire game the past three gamse and were effective (in their way). They got in foul trouble tonight, it happens.

You're simply not going to upgrade the center position (based on our needs) without making a roster changing move (like sending out Dirk or Josh).

[LSMF]

I think we need a trade, we should trade for a center or back up PG. The names that come to my mind would be Eddy Curry and Jamaal Tinsley. Either of them would be good for our team, I don't care what anyone says about Tinsley being crazy we just really need a backup Pg and if we can't get him we should get curry because we seriously NEED someone who can score in the post. Thats my two cents, im frustrated at this point.

[ghazi]

Would rather prefer a shooting guard than backup PG or center. VC, where art thou!!

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm going to say this one more time about Curry. You can not in one breath complain about Bass and Dirk playing together so much, because of the problems it creates defensively, and then throw out the idea of acquiring Eddy Curry.

If you're willing to sacrifice the defense for the offense, fine, but defense is the problem right now, not offense, imo.

Then maybe we should put into question the defensive job that our two-headed center is doing. I feel like this faster pace hurts both Damp's and Diop's game. They are playing...ok I guess but nothing they have done has really stood out for me so far.

Like Damp....I'm sorry, but I think the love affair with this guy is blind too. He is having the worst season of his career so far. 3.4 points, 4.8 rebounds and 1 block per game is subpar IMO. Especially since he said in a DMN article that he wants to be more passionate in the games this season. Hmm...

Something certainly isn't clicking overall with the team thus far. Maybe it will just take longer than expected to get acclimated to the system. Maybe the team is just pretty mediocre. Sigh.

[LonghornDub]

Diop really got abused last night we he was out there. He did nothing to clog up the paint or contest shots.

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Then maybe we should put into question the defensive job that our two-headed center is doing. I feel like this faster pace hurts both Damp's and Diop's game. They are playing...ok I guess but nothing they have done has really stood out for me so far.

Like Damp....I'm sorry, but I think the love affair with this guy is blind too. He is having the worst season of his career so far. 3.4 points, 4.8 rebounds and 1 block per game is subpar IMO. Especially since he said in a DMN article that he wants to be more passionate in the games this season. Hmm...

Something certainly isn't clicking overall with the team thus far. Maybe it will just take longer than expected to get acclimated to the system. Maybe the team is just pretty mediocre. Sigh.

I keep hearing that thye got in foul trouble...Diop had 5 Damp had 4...why were they not out there for the last few minutes when people kept scoring layups while Bass and Dirk looked on. There was 3 more foul to go around...soo that was a mistake to keep them out. Damp and Diop are fine at center IMO, every center gets in foul trouble here and there, but if our guys get into more its because year after year Damp has to cover his mann and many times Dirks mann. We saw this against the Cavs..where Damp was left alone time after time to get rebounds against Big Z and Big Ben and then hes blamed for not contributing enough. Helping a teammate occasionally doesnt hurt, but when you have to do it time after time because hes soo bad on D..especially if its another BIG then youll obviously get in foul trouble.

**Dirk is 7 feet tall, he needs to stop swiping at balls while people are going for layups and block a damm shot, hit the guy, or something.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

I keep hearing that thye got in foul trouble...Diop had 5 Damp had 4...why were they not out there for the last few minutes when people kept scoring layups while Bass and Dirk looked on. There was 3 more foul to go around...soo that was a mistake to keep them out. Damp and Diop are fine at center IMO, every center gets in foul trouble here and there, but if our guys get into more its because year after year Damp has to cover his mann and many times Dirks mann. We saw this against the Cavs..where Damp was left alone time after time to get rebounds against Big Z and Big Ben and then hes blamed for not contributing enough. Helping a teammate occasionally doesnt hurt, but when you have to do it time after time because hes soo bad on D..especially if its another BIG then youll obviously get in foul trouble.

**Dirk is 7 feet tall, he needs to stop swiping at balls while people are going for layups and block a damm shot, hit the guy, or something.

I am wondering what Carlisle is doing at times. It seems that he does not truly know the strengths and weaknesses of his team. I agree Damp needs help on the boards, because he is left alone for the most part. Carlisle said that rebounding was top priority, but I have not seen a single sign of that. In fact, our defense has gotten worse. Diop on the other hand has gotten a bit slow, and he is not defending the paint like before. Diop is best when he is coming off the ball for a block. On the other hand, those who take it directly at Diop is having a field day.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

I keep hearing that thye got in foul trouble...Diop had 5 Damp had 4...why were they not out there for the last few minutes when people kept scoring layups while Bass and Dirk looked on. There was 3 more foul to go around...soo that was a mistake to keep them out. Damp and Diop are fine at center IMO, every center gets in foul trouble here and there, but if our guys get into more its because year after year Damp has to cover his mann and many times Dirks mann. We saw this against the Cavs..where Damp was left alone time after time to get rebounds against Big Z and Big Ben and then hes blamed for not contributing enough. Helping a teammate occasionally doesnt hurt, but when you have to do it time after time because hes soo bad on D..especially if its another BIG then youll obviously get in foul trouble.

**Dirk is 7 feet tall, he needs to stop swiping at balls while people are going for layups and block a damm shot, hit the guy, or something.

Just fine isn't going to cut it this season. Damp and Diop can't just be mediocre. In fact, none of our main players can be if we intend of making the playoffs in the west this year. No team is going to take the night off and so neither can the Mavs.

[Eman]

We have a two, his name is Gerald Green

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by jthig32

This is, in my opinion, a knee jerk. The centers played the entire game the past three gamse and were effective (in their way). They got in foul trouble tonight, it happens.

You're simply not going to upgrade the center position (based on our needs) without making a roster changing move (like sending out Dirk or Josh).

It's one thing to have bass sub in for the bigs when you need him. But neither of them saw the court in the fourth. Damp ended with 4pfs and Diop with 3pfs. Now diop was pretty bad last night so possibly a choice between damp/bass was being made. But either way...Carlisle played brandon because he wanted to, not because he had to.

[dude1394]

Actually with respect to fg% the defense this year (so far) is better than last years. The pace is higher and we aren't as efficient.

Last year 44.3%, this year 42.3%.
Last year 95.9PPG this year 97.2

I'm not sure it's worse to be honest..

Per the numbers it's our offense that's been worse scoring 96.2ppg versus 100.4 this year.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Short and sweet tonight, I'm going to bed.

Major game points:

Josh is hurt. Hope it's not long term, but I'm prepared for bad news based on how much he was protecting his wrist in the fourth quarter.

Too many turnovers tonight. Kidd picked up a few too many, but you knew they were going to catch up to him a little bit.

Too many threes (although they made them) and not enough free throws.

Bass doesn't have any business playing down the stretch. He's not comfortable, clearly.

But all of those are secondary story lines. Here's the only thing I care about tonight:

Stack is a -19 in 13 minutes tonight. Wright was a -14 in 9 minutes. Gerald Green was a +3 in 14 minutes.

If Green plays HALF, just HALF of Stack's minutes tonight, we win. If Green plays all of Stack's mintues, we win relatively easily. Period. Call it an assumption, I don't care. It would have happened. I continue to preach patience for the overall season. You can see how good this team is for small stretches, but they're not fully clicking yet. But I'm out of patience for the swingman situation. Gerald Green is a SIGNIFICANTLY better player than Stackhouse. Period. Stop playing Stack.

That is all.

Agree in general with the first post above.

13 of 35 three pointers. 13 shots for 39 points. If those 35 shots were 2 pointers and we shot with 50% efficiency, then that would be 35 points. So, the math was favorable for the 3 pointers. Josh, Dirk, and JKidd hit 50% of their 3 pointers. G Green hit 40% of his 3s. Jet and Stack shot very poorly.

Stack in general had a horrible night. Agree that Stack is a drag on the team now. Play G Green.

The Mavs shot more shots total. The Mavs won the rebound war. The Mavs shot a higher shooting percentage.

The Mavs lost for one primary statistical problem: Denver hit 37 of 40 free throws. If Dallas plays better defense by being in position and quits committing shooting fouls, the Mavs win that game.

Other problems: no inside game; however, Dirk had one of his best inside games in a long time. Team was in intercontinental ballistic missile mode lobbing long jump shot after long jump shot. And, the Nuggets suck at defense including paint defense...

And, as noted before, Stack had a bad night.

Jet shot 25% from the 3 stripe. He won't do that badly very often.

[Rick41]

What dirk is weak at is rebounding.

7 Footer averaging 8 rebounds a game.


wtf is that?

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by dude1394

It's one thing to have bass sub in for the bigs when you need him. But neither of them saw the court in the fourth. Damp ended with 4pfs and Diop with 3pfs. Now diop was pretty bad last night so possibly a choice between damp/bass was being made. But either way...Carlisle played brandon because he wanted to, not because he had to.

And, since Dampier and Diop made no contribution anyway, Bass should have logged heavier minutes...

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I am wondering what Carlisle is doing at times. It seems that he does not truly know the strengths and weaknesses of his team. I agree Damp needs help on the boards, because he is left alone for the most part. Carlisle said that rebounding was top priority, but I have not seen a single sign of that. In fact, our defense has gotten worse. Diop on the other hand has gotten a bit slow, and he is not defending the paint like before. Diop is best when he is coming off the ball for a block. On the other hand, those who take it directly at Diop is having a field day.

Agree that Diop is off his form from before.

But, we won the rebounds war despite the inefficiency of Dampier and Diop. JKidd nearly had a triple double.

[blessednegr0]

ya dirk damp diop and bass are hurting in rebounds because kidd and howard are snagging them all up man.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by blessednegr0

ya dirk damp diop and bass are hurting in rebounds because kidd and howard are snagging them all up man.

Damp and Diop didn't have high rebounds because:
1)Damp played few minutes due to continually fouling
2)Diop is not playing well

We are lucky that Kidd and JHo played well on the boards.

Dirk has been consistent throughout his career at 8-11 boards per game. He doesn't get more because he is not in position for offensive boards because he is a perimeter and high post offensive player. His rebounds are defensive boards. Nothing new here.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Maybe the team is just pretty mediocre. Sigh.

I think that's pretty unavoidable. We got a nice pair of forwards, and a whole lot of nothing outside of that. The strange thing is, the Mavs of 05-07 had tremendous success and really weren't much different from this team. Other than Kidd for Harris of course, and the addition of Bass, the roster is almost identical.

What I really can't figure out, is why the Mavs of those years were such dominant rebounders, and the Mavs of last year and this year have no such edge on the boards. You'd figure we'd be even better on the boards with Kidd at point.

One of the most glaring weaknesses in this team I think is the half court offense. The team constantly tries to run, and it works sometimes. The problem is, the team is REALLY NOT built to run at all. Teams that play the fast-breaking game we're trying to play have got to have a lot of finishers. The only real "finisher" on the team is Howard. I suppose you could argue for Bass and Green as well, but I'm reluctant to do so.

So our fast-breaking game can only get us so far. Once the Mavs get forced into a half court game, it gets ugly. The only real scorers that are on the floor most of the time are Dirk and Josh, so we're playing 2 on 5 offense for much of the game.

There's not much the team can do outside without significantly changing the roster, but right now, here's a short to-do list for Carlisle:

1. Give all of Stackhouse's minutes to Green. I'm not sure if he'd be better as a starter than he is coming off the bench, but the kid is clearly more productive than either Stack or Wright at this point. He needs to play more.

2. Stop playing Bass at center. It's what killed us last year, and it's killing us again this year.

3. Rebound better. I don't know how you fix this problem, but do something. Practice boxing out or something.

4. Cut down on turnovers. Seriously.

[LonghornDub]

I just can't buy the fact that this team is destined to be mediocre. As spiral said, it's basically the same roster as a team that went to the Finals, and another team that won 67 games.

Now, I completely understand that the rest of the NBA has improved. But I really just cannot believe that this team has fallen so far that we shouldn't expect around ~55 wins. Kidd is an improvement over Harris, and the extra 2 years of age do not matter that much for anyone except Stackhouse.

Our problems last year stemmed from 1) the team not buying into Avery anymore, and 2) us getting away from what made us so successful. #1 has already been rectified; we just need to work on #2.

I guess it remains to be seen whether I'm right, or just hopelessly optimistic, but I do feel as though we have the pieces to at least be a very good team. Maybe not Lakers good, or championship good, but good.

[dirno2000]

What I really can't figure out, is why the Mavs of those years were such dominant rebounders, and the Mavs of last year and this year have no such edge on the boards. You'd figure we'd be even better on the boards with Kidd at point.

Damp and Dirk are having their worst rebounding seasons in at least six years. Plus Bass has forced his way into the lineup and he's, at best, an average rebounder.

[dirno2000]

Now, I completely understand that the rest of the NBA has improved. But I really just cannot believe that this team has fallen so far that we shouldn't expect around ~55 wins. Kidd is an improvement over Harris, and the extra 2 years of age do not matter that much for anyone except Stackhouse.

It's too early to draw definitive conclusions but, as I just pointed out, Dirk and Damp aren't rebounding like they used to. Age? I don't know. Plus Terry's role has changed to the point that he's not the same player he was.

And while Kidd may be a better overall player than Devin, I don't think he's better for this team. He may not be worse but he's not better.

[BGMaverick9]

It really does look like rebounds are a major problem. They're pretty much around the middle of the pack overall for rebounds when you add their rebounds and what they give up, it's hovering around the middle heading towards the bottom half. It's really hard to figure out what the problem is. Is that one of the drawbacks for trying to focus on the uptempo offense? It shouldn't be b/c you need to play defense and get the boards to trigger the offense. The defense is pretty subpar right now, and rebounds are a part of that issue. A major way to fix rebounds is just effort/energy, of course you have to position yourself properly as well....a lot of it is just will-power to get the ball.

I can't buy into the fact that the team will be "mediocre." The talent is there, and the competition is stiff but I think this team can make some noise. I just think the team is in a major identity crisis. All summer long they've stressed the offense is going to change and that the tempo will be fast. Maybe they are trying to find their groove on where the right setting is for that pace and get a sense of being comfortable in it. It's learning on the fly...still, and nothing feels set. I have no idea if that holds and merit...it's just a thought. They just need to go back and focus on defense and rebounding...those two things really carry a team to wins. I think they have a basic idea for the offense, but they just have to put more emphasis back on the other side of the ball.

Give up on the Stack experiment, it's not going to happen.
Give all the time at the SG position to Wright and Green, at this point I don't care the order...they just need the time.
Let Bass play the 4 and it's up to Damp and Diop to figure it out and take care of the foul issues.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

^ I don't think the identity crisis is going to be solved anytime soon for the following reasons:

1. The rotations this season are just as wacky as Avery's last season. Not a good start for Carlisle on that note. Players won't get comfortable with their role or get into rhythm with erratic playing time. It also is gonna make the system harder to learn and get accustomed to.

2. Trying to be run-and-gun while also trying to be a great defensive team doesn't really work. At the end of the day, I believe we're either gonna be known for our defense or offense. Either way, I hope we're at least known for something. Right now, it sure ain't reboundin . I actually hope it's defense to be honest. The team definitely needs to figure out some good half-court sets on that work.

3. I personally believe this team isn't over those mental collapses called Miami and GS. I don't see a rejuvanation like everyone was cheering about in training camp. I see tired and frustrated players like Terry and Dirk. They are looking and playing like they have monkeys on their backs. It's like they forget sometimes that you have to work to win games. Howard is more and more just taking jump shots still. He has such a pretty little one handed little shot that he always use to take that he rarely does anymore. That sort of fingeroll, one-handed jump shot 6 feet from the basket. That shot is basically unstoppable when he does it. Plus we still don't know if Howard is over his mental issues. Apparently he was really upset after the Denver loss.

4. A bigger shake-up to the roster is needed. Terry now starting at the 2 reeks of a desperation since Wright blew it big time. I actually think Avery was right in saying that our team looks deeper then it really is.

It's hard not to be pessimistic. We just better beat the 0-6 Clippers.

[BGMaverick9]

I can see some validation with point #3, but I think I see it as an uneasy feeling and just anxious/nervous. They know they've been there before, they've seen the dark side of the success and they know time could be running out and they see uncertainty and it makes things uncomfortable.

I would also rather be known for the defense with a nice amount of creative offense thrown in. Just have a decent amount of ideas with the motion offense to not be pegged to where the defense sits on it. The teams has weapons to work with if the defense is doing its part and creating action for the offense.

The rotation definitely needs to be resolved, but it's terribly thin if we go with what's been working or what has somewhat been working. There are pieces there that can be used to shake things up, I don't think we'll see anything though for a while...closer to the new year. Try to stay afloat until then and make another gamble/run. I do like Gerald Wallace, but we need some pieces to come along with him in the deal.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

And while Kidd may be a better overall player than Devin, I don't think he's better for this team. He may not be worse but he's not better.

I just don't understand how you can say that at this point in the season. Kidd is what makes this thing go right now.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

1. Give all of Stackhouse's minutes to Green. I'm not sure if he'd be better as a starter than he is coming off the bench, but the kid is clearly more productive than either Stack or Wright at this point. He needs to play more.

2. Stop playing Bass at center. It's what killed us last year, and it's killing us again this year.

3. Rebound better. I don't know how you fix this problem, but do something. Practice boxing out or something.

4. Cut down on turnovers. Seriously.

Two of these four are complete knee jerks.Friday night was the first time Bass saw any burn at center in three games, and it happened initially because of foul trouble.

And the Mavs have the third lowest turnover average in the leauge right now. I agree that both of these things hurt them Friday, but I'm not really sure either is "something to work on" unless it becomes more of a trend.

And obviously I couldn't agree more on number 1.

[jthig32]

The rebounding thing is annoying, no doubt. I know we remarked about the placing of the centers in a lot of our new sets; they're further out, around the free throw line a lot to open up driving lanes. Can your position on the floor really affect your ability to rebound this drastically?

Because this was still a great rebounding team last season. It's bizarre for it to change to quickly, especially with Kidd on the team from the get go.

I really expect the rebounding to even out.

Oh, and I can't wait for the multi-quote button to be working. Seems like I'm doing a lot of series posting lately.

[Popeye]

I think the rebounding is an early season fluke. When you play a starting lineup with Dirk, Damp, Howard, and Kidd you're going to be a good rebounding team. I think Dirk and Damp will pick it up soon.

As someone else mentioned, the FG% isn't that bad. However, they have been giving up too many FTs. Another fluke thing is that other opponents are shooting 86% on free throws. Obviously, that's nothing but bad luck that will even out over time.

Starting Terry is not a desperation move. Terry is easily our best guard besides Kidd, and Kidd's size allows him to guard most 2-guards. I'm hoping this is a permanent move.

All these problems and the Mavs starters are still out-scoring oppenents starters in just about every game. If the 2nd team can just tread water they should win a pretty good percentage.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

^ Well the second team just needs to not inculde Stackhouse and then it's the right path. GG has earned 20+ minutes a game IMO.

I'd rather see Devan George play than Stackhouse.

[EricaLubarsky]

We arent rebounding and defending because our forwards are midcourt before the shot even comes off the board.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

We arent rebounding and defending because our forwards are midcourt before the shot even comes off the board.

I don't buy that. Josh seems like our primary leaker, and he's rebounding slightly better than last season, which was isi best rebounding season yet.

[dude1394]

Well the offense is now predicated on dragging damp and the centers to the ft-line extended, allowing for cutters underneath. The offense is now not nearly as predicatable. I'm sure that the rebounders are not sure when the shot's going to go off. Before they (and everyone else in the world) knew exactly when the shot was going. The other team would watch dirk/josh and time his move. Damp the same I expect.

Go check out the x and o commentary to see where the centers/forwards are in the new offense.

Damps minutes are now down to 20per game also. But I expect the rebounding has as much to do with the offense as anything at the moment.

In fact the entire team seems not up to speed on the offense. And I'm not talking about "running", thinking that's going to be your entire offense is not sensible. In other words a "running team" is not what they are going for. They want to push it and get easy baskets, but after that the motion offense is where they are strugging imo.

ESPECIALLY when they get tired and in the fourth. They begin to quit cutting. As carlisle (and dirk actually)...they stand around when they don't have the ball, it's a habit that he hasn't been able to break. It might take a very long time to do so.

I think it took houston what...almost half a season under adleman?

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I just can't buy the fact that this team is destined to be mediocre. As spiral said, it's basically the same roster as a team that went to the Finals, and another team that won 67 games.

Now, I completely understand that the rest of the NBA has improved. But I really just cannot believe that this team has fallen so far that we shouldn't expect around ~55 wins. Kidd is an improvement over Harris, and the extra 2 years of age do not matter that much for anyone except Stackhouse.

Our problems last year stemmed from 1) the team not buying into Avery anymore, and 2) us getting away from what made us so successful. #1 has already been rectified; we just need to work on #2.

I guess it remains to be seen whether I'm right, or just hopelessly optimistic, but I do feel as though we have the pieces to at least be a very good team. Maybe not Lakers good, or championship good, but good.

It is called getting older. Our main role players are all older and the tire thread is gone for the most part. Now, we have to limit the play of our main role players. There is a reason that we are the 2nd oldest team in the league, and old is not bad for the most part, but having the 2nd oldest team in the league with only one player with a championship is NOT good at all. Couple that with the most number of players with championship series failures and now we see the complete problem.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

And while Kidd may be a better overall player than Devin, I don't think he's better for this team. He may not be worse but he's not better.

Sorry, I just don't agree with that at all. Devin's a nice young guard, but Kidd is much better, both in general and for us.