2-5: Mavs lose to Lakers

[joebobbill]

The Mavs lost because they don't have a 2nd string point guard. When Kidd sat down, the team fell apart.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'm starting to wonder if he can't keep up with faster-paced basketball (Kidd) any longer...

Was Avery up to something when he slowed the pace and the Mavs got better? All the stats show that the medium paced Mavs team was the most efficient in the league a year back. Could this faster paced team force Dirk to use his legs too much and it takes away from his jumper? Could be? I think this could be a part of it, and if so, Dirk needs to know that his NBA team needs him more than his German team getting bronze medals every year. Plus, the employer that pays you the most should win out

Maybe Carlisle could rest Dirk a bit more towards the end of the 2nd quarter and get some early rest in the middle of the 3rd quarter and bring him back in to close out the 3rd quarter and rest a bit in the early 4th quarter. During these times, we go into an all out sprint with Kidd, Green, Jet, Bass and Howard team.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I understand, but I would rather say he did not put forth the effort, than to say he put forth the effort and played down right horrible. IMO

you might prefer to say that, but you'd be wrong

I saw the airball in a different way. I saw the airball coming from a player who does not want to be the difference maker that night and was forced to shot due to the wide open shot.

then what do you say about the hustle back to the other end to break up the break?

I saw the same thing when he gave up his shot to throw it to Stack with about 3sec left on the shot clock to put Stack in a horrible position to score.

then what do you say to the 10 seconds of trying to get around the defender before that pass?

I also saw a guy that does not want to put forth an effort on defense to try to block out and defend Gasol in the wanning moments.

He was trying not to foul out. Dirk has never figured out how to play defense in that situation. He has always resorted to a little extra matador or the frustration like, half disguised pushes that he gave Pau last night. No doubt it's weak, but it's bad problem solving, not lack of effort.

To me, that means Dirk should not have been out there . . .

that's crazy, short-sighted talk. Of course Dirk should be out there. Always. It's not a catch 22 that he's the best player . . . He's the best player so he should be out there. Period. You don't sit your best player because of an off day. Best players are best players because they so often come through even on an off day. Last night Dirk didn't come through, but it's just not thoughtful to say they should've given up on him last night.

You know what, if we all say that he put forth an effort and just came up entirely empty, then what we are really saying is that Dirk is on the way down and his time has passed.

Or that he's being worked too hard right now in practice, or that he's generally frustrated, or that he's in a slump, or that the summer took it's toll on him or that . . . (blah, blah, the million other things we might 'really' be saying if we put forth some effort to think it through.)

[Silk Smoov]

UL,
The hustle to get back was just that. Hustle to get back. Nothing special, just a play Dik decided to hustle.

As far as that play at the end with giving the ball to Stack. Dirk did not try to get past Gasol. Dirk only tried to get Gasol off balance to take a fadaway shot. As you know, if Dirk gets in a triple threat he is going to get past Gasol from the 3rd point line. Dirk was not in a triple threat, Dirk was in position to just shot.

Back to the foul. Dirk did NOTHING to get in position to rebound and put his team in the best position to get the ball back. Dirk just watched everyone else play defense, and when the ball came off the rim, he was out of position due to watching on defense.

On the Catch 22, I said there was no way to justify not having your best player out there. I stated Catch 22 because if that was any other player playing like that, they would be on the bench at that time. IMO

I have never heard of a Superstar being worked too hard, so I dont even consider that. He is not in a slump, because he has some good scoring nights against lesser teams this season. He is not frustrated, because he looked like the ole Dirk against the Spurs. Now, for the summer, I do believe that plays a good part, but that is only with the stamina. The heart is another thing, so I cant blame that on the summer. IMO

[mary]

Thanks for being the voice of reason UL. I didn't see alot of Dirk not trying last night....just failing, and he certainly seemed frustrated at the end of the game.

[horse900703]

another disappointed game

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by mary

Thanks for being the voice of reason UL. I didn't see alot of Dirk not trying last night....just failing, and he certainly seemed frustrated at the end of the game.

I don't think thats really the voice of reason. You could make a case that Dirk was trying, but he was trying all the wrong things (forcing). He made what 1 maybe 2 layups and the rest were severely contested shots, he even missed the open man (especially Green) a number of times. His defense was very lack luster and after talking about his teams effort and play he lays an egg and gave less than 100% effort. Hopefully he was frustrated about his overall play and not attacking the rim, not just frustrated that his shot wasn't falling and they lost.

[LSMF]

Gerald Green is the truth. I can see his desire and his heart. I still remember earlier in the season Gerald said he wanted to be a "Great Player" in this league, I can see it when he plays that he means what he said. We got a steal in that kid, now all we have to do is wait for Dirk to get fully healthy and play with some intensity especially in 4th quarters and we'll make progress.

[FreshJive]

The Ariza dunk after the ft and Pau's 3pt play were both due to Dirk's lack of effort on blocking out. The poor attempt at defense on Ariza after he grabbed the board is just lack of ability, and the weak foul on Pau was becuse he knew he was in foul trouble and he had a split second of hesitation.

I'll give him a pass on the poor offensive showing.

[kg_veteran]

I know the team is 2-5 and all, but I can't bring myself to get upset just yet. Yes, the team has problems, but I'm going to give them some time. I still hope they trade Stackhouse and Bass, and I'm starting to wonder why they brought Diop back, but the team has a good starting lineup that can compete with anyone, and they have the potential to have a good bench, particularly if Glass continues to develop.

[Underdog]

Dirk sucks - trade him to the Lakers for a few of their spares and pair him up with Kobe... Go Lakers!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I'm starting to wonder why they brought Diop back

Because Cuban loves over-paid, under-performing centers...

[SMC0007]

..and Cue the over-protective defenders of Dampier.

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I know the team is 2-5 and all, but I can't bring myself to get upset just yet. Yes, the team has problems, but I'm going to give them some time. I still hope they trade Stackhouse and Bass, and I'm starting to wonder why they brought Diop back, but the team has a good starting lineup that can compete with anyone, and they have the potential to have a good bench, particularly if Glass continues to develop.

Are you confusing Gerald Green with former Ole Miss great Gerald Glass?

[ghazi]

So after the game, I had some cereal, jerked off, slept, and now have awaken!

i agree with kg veteran, I wanna see a trade involving Stack/Bass. Those players are the epitome of inefficient. They show flashes here and there (such as Stack's 17 last night), but for the most part aren't consistent enough for us to consider our bench effective or deep.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by ghazi

So after the game, I had some cereal, jerked off, slept, and now have awaken!

i agree with kg veteran, I wanna see a trade involving Stack/Bass. Those players are the epitome of inefficient. They show flashes here and there (such as Stack's 17 last night), but for the most part aren't consistent enough for us to consider our bench effective or deep.

Yes I like cereal that much too.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Are you confusing Gerald Green with former Ole Miss great Gerald Glass?

Ha! That was a slip of the tongue (or the keyboard). Of course, since I know you remember Gerald Glass, you'll agree with me that his body type and game were much more, um, earthbound than Green...

[ghazi]

Any realistic trade involving a core player though such as Jho or Terry would be a lateral move at best though IMO. a real upgrade would be trading spares for a good player. A good player for a slightly better good player (assuming such was even available) doesn't get me too excited.

I'm so confused how blowing leads and late game piss poor execution seem to be a part of this team's identity. It's nothing new, it was a problem in close games last year.

Look at the Nuggets game, look at the Lakers game. We have a chance to tie, not only do we not get a clean look, we don't even get a look. What the hell?

Why? WHY? why? Lack of slashing perhaps? Variance? Identity?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by ghazi

Any realistic trade involving a core player though such as Jho or Terry would be a lateral move at best though IMO. a real upgrade would be trading spares for a good player.

So how do you convince another team to take your spares in exchange for a good player???

(it's not like we have any massive expiring contracts or decent draft picks to offer...)

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Ha! That was a slip of the tongue (or the keyboard). Of course, since I know you remember Gerald Glass, you'll agree with me that his body type and game were much more, um, earthbound than Green...

That's what makes the reference so random. Why would you be thinking about Gerald Glass .

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

That's what makes the reference so random. Why would you be thinking about Gerald Glass .

It has to be the similarity of their names, not their games.

Who knows how the brain works, particularly when you are typing quickly...

All and still, Glass looks like a keeper.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by ghazi

Any realistic trade involving a core player though such as Jho or Terry would be a lateral move at best though IMO. a real upgrade would be trading spares for a good player. A good player for a slightly better good player (assuming such was even available) doesn't get me too excited.

I'm so confused how blowing leads and late game piss poor execution seem to be a part of this team's identity. It's nothing new, it was a problem in close games last year.

Look at the Nuggets game, look at the Lakers game. We have a chance to tie, not only do we not get a clean look, we don't even get a look. What the hell?

Why? WHY? why? Lack of slashing perhaps? Variance? Identity?

When games get tough down the stretch I believe you absolutely have to have an efficient low post scorer. We currently don't have anything meriting a low post threat AT ALL and teams are killing us because of it.

I love when we play teams without a low post threat and you have to believe other teams like playing us for the exact same reason.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by ghazi

Any realistic trade involving a core player though such as Jho or Terry would be a lateral move at best though IMO. a real upgrade would be trading spares for a good player. A good player for a slightly better good player (assuming such was even available) doesn't get me too excited.

I'm so confused how blowing leads and late game piss poor execution seem to be a part of this team's identity. It's nothing new, it was a problem in close games last year.

Look at the Nuggets game, look at the Lakers game. We have a chance to tie, not only do we not get a clean look, we don't even get a look. What the hell?

Why? WHY? why? Lack of slashing perhaps? Variance? Identity?

My stab is ...Shell shocked from years past late in games. Deathly fear of losing late in the games that mentally stems back to Miami series. They lock up and cease to run smoothly and function properly especially on offense. Seems like everyone is afraid to take it strong to the bucket late.

Maybe Green is the guy we need that will get to the bucket late, he seems pretty fearless thus far and I eagerly await him starting SG with KIDD,JHO,DIRK,DAMP and eager to have him on the floor late in the games too.

[destroy ALL]

When J-Ho gets back Mavs need to start:

C- Damp
PF - Dirk
SF - J-Ho
SG - Green
PG - Kidd
6th - Jet

JJB? Uh, not gonna get it done. Sign Marbury. Mavs 08/09 NBA champs. life is complete. the end.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Maybe Green is the guy we need that will get to the bucket late, he seems pretty fearless thus far and I eagerly await him starting SG with KIDD,JHO,DIRK,DAMP and eager to have him on the floor late in the games too.

I'm excited to see that lineup as well.

[ghazi]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

When games get tough down the stretch I believe you absolutely have to have an efficient low post scorer. We currently don't have anything meriting a low post threat AT ALL and teams are killing us because of it.

I love when we play teams without a low post threat and you have to believe other teams like playing us for the exact same reason.

Perhaps this is the case, but didnt' we do well in close games in the '06-'07 season?

I somewhat agree though. a low post scorer or atleast a slasher to break down defenses and create some good perimeter looks. We can't create any open looks when it seems when we really need it. a defense is not going to allow an alley oop or a backdoor in the latter part of a tight game (saw kIdd do that a few times effectively last night).

[ghazi]

Originally Posted by Underdog

So how do you convince another team to take your spares in exchange for a good player???

(it's not like we have any massive expiring contracts or decent draft picks to offer...)

I dunno, lol... but I feel trading Jho/Terry would be a lateral move at best. So perhaps we're stuck as we are...

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by Underdog

So how do you convince another team to take your spares in exchange for a good player???

(it's not like we have any massive expiring contracts or decent draft picks to offer...)

The league has shown that it will give bailout packages to struggling teams (Garnett, Gasol, Artest), so why not try to get in on the action ourselves?

[fluid.forty.one]

My cat came back to life today. I'm less gloomy.

[alby]

Bass+Stack should fetch a pretty solid two guard.

Gerald Green Light should be the 6-7th man a la JR Smith.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by alby

Bass+Stack should fetch a pretty solid two guard.

Like? I'm all ears.

Gerald Green Light should be the 6-7th man a la JR Smith.

If you get a solid two guard (starter?) in return for Stack/Bass, you're looking at Green being a 4th guard and backup SF.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by destroy ALL

When J-Ho gets back Mavs need to start:

C- Damp
PF - Dirk
SF - J-Ho
SG - Green
PG - Kidd
6th - Jet

JJB? Uh, not gonna get it done. Sign Marbury. Mavs 08/09 NBA champs. life is complete. the end.

Isn't that what we've been doing? Except Josh was hurt last night but that's the same core of players who are 2-4.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Isn't that what we've been doing? Except Josh was hurt last night but that's the same core of players who are 2-4.

Not really - we've been starting JET, Stack and Wright at SG so far...

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Like? I'm all ears.



If you get a solid two guard (starter?) in return for Stack/Bass, you're looking at Green being a 4th guard and backup SF.

Depending how good this new solid two guard starter is, he could make Terry look a lot better at point. Kidd-Newguy-Howard starting, with Terry playing backup at 1 and 2, and with Green playing the rest of the 2 guard minutes and as the main backup at the 3. Green looked awfully good as a 3 to start the game last night.

[LSMF]

Guys I don't think we need another wing, why not trade for chris kaman? Bass+stack+cash for Kaman. I don't know if the salaries work though. It makes little sense to trade for another guard while Gerald is clearly showing us that he should be a starter.

[joebobbill]

There is a tweener problem. Carlisle doesn't think in terms of tweeners.

Dirk is a Tweener. He plays like a 3, but can't guard one.
Jet is a Tweener. Can't really play a pure point, where the goal is to set things up for others. He isn't strong enough to play a real 2.
Bass is a Tweener. Not big enough for a power forward, too slow for a 3.

Kidd is a pure 1. Stack and Green are pure 2s. JHo is a pure 3. Damp is a pure 5.

Diop plays a good defensive 5, but brings no offense. Wright plays a good defensive 2, but offers little offense. JJB plays a decent offensive 1, but is a huge liability defensively. They are not tweeners, just limited players.

Under Carlisle, the tweeners are all suffering. His system doesn't depend on isolation plays that allow tweeners to create valuable mismatches.

We are in a shake out run. It will be interesting to see who goes first, Carlisle or featured players. I don't get the feeling Carlisle cares. He seems quite confident in what he is doing. I suspect Carlisle is willing to lose a lot of games up front if it allows him to build the kind of team he thinks wins championships.

[alby]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Like? I'm all ears.



If you get a solid two guard (starter?) in return for Stack/Bass, you're looking at Green being a 4th guard and backup SF.

"4th guard and backup SF" is equivalent to the 6th-8th man IMO.

I still don't know why we have Bass. He is a great talent and can be a good player. But our best player plays the same position. Not sure why we're not taking advantage of that asset.

[Janett_Reno]

Like i said before the season, the Mavs will be in bottom 2 for playoffs or no playoffs for Mavs. The west is just to good for us. Our team is made up wrong also. Kidd is good if he can run and this takes Dampier and maybe even Diop out of the game. Even if you leave our big guys in a slow game, how can they compete with Gasol, Bynum and Odom? Green looks like a good pick up and as far as other guys off our bench or someone they want to give playing time to, it will be Terry in the end that is better. That makes us small but he is better with a pg in the game feeding him like Kidd.

Avery started off right and taught us defense and made us tough and to play like Spurs basketball. Later on, i am not sure what Avery wanted because our team would not respond and i also saw some bad coaching on his part. Harris could run or play stand still. When we got Kidd we had to run or an up tempo game but this takes us to small ball because it takes our bigs out. We are just not deep enough to hang with the west and we never addressed two positions we are weak on. We hung tough with the Lakers and made it close.

[mavs531]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dirk was double teamed all night. That is how LA plays teams, they take out the other team's best player...

Um... that's how every team should play and normally they do!
It looks like a average Mavs team if you ask me! it sux

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

My stab is ...Shell shocked from years past late in games. Deathly fear of losing late in the games that mentally stems back to Miami series. They lock up and cease to run smoothly and function properly especially on offense. Seems like everyone is afraid to take it strong to the bucket late.

I basically agree with this. I'm not sure if I'd use the word "deathly fear," but I think the guys are no longer comfortable winning close games. They used to be very comfortable with it.