Mavs win @ Knicks: 3-7

[fluid.forty.one]

I watched Randolph a lot in Portland. He "can" be a low post threat. He just chooses not to be.

I don't think that's gonna change.

[LSMF]

Exactly, that dude is in love with his jumper.

[ghazi]

Randolph just doesn't feel like a "winner".

[LonghornDub]

Let's see if SA will trade Duncan for Stackhouse + Bass + George + JJB. That's a winner.

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

This team needs a low post threat. I personally feel that that's way more important than a SG, but that's just my take.

As great as Dirk is, this is an area where he handcuffs you by being a 7-footer that can't play center. We don't just need a low post scoring threat, we need a low post scoring threat that's big enough and physical enough to play defensive center. There are only a handful of those players in the league. Most low post scorers are power forwards.

[sike]

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

Seriously guys Randolph is not so much of a post presence, he's a jumpshooter. I've seen alot of his games and this guys shoots alot of jumpshots, think about it have you ever even seen Randolph dunk? This guy is not the answer, and his defense sucks also.

Randolph is VERY solid from the block. He has a pretty sweet touch from 17ft (that he may go to a bit too much)....but to say he isn't a post presence boggles my mind.

[ghazi]

Some problematic early season stats:

17th in offensive efficiency
21st in defensive efficiency
42.8 % FG
30.5% 3PT FG

The defensive FG % is actually solid at 42.8%, but giving up way too many free throws. If we could maintain that % but foul less, our defensive efficiency would improve. Another problem though is that we're not great at forcing turnovers.

We're in the T5 as far as taking care of the basketball, but jeez... saw a lot of sloppy turnovers in the Magic, Lakers, and Bulls games.

The %'s on FG and 3PT need to improve by 4-5 points.

The defensive efficiency and offensive efficiency are terrible.

So basically, the Mavs have been about the 20th best team in the NBA so far. Ugh.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by sike

Randolph is VERY solid from the block. He has a pretty sweet touch from 17ft (that he may go to a bit too much)....but to say he isn't a post presence boggles my mind.

like I said, he'll refuse to do it. He'll give you one game where he's great from the block, then 7 clanker-jump-shot games in a row. Trust me.. I used to watch EVERY game when he was on the blazers.

[sike]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

As great as Dirk is, this is an area where he handcuffs you by being a 7-footer that can't play center. We don't just need a low post scoring threat, we need a low post scoring threat that's big enough and physical enough to play defensive center. There are only a handful of those players in the league. Most low post scorers are power forwards.

I wouldn't mind a strong post scoring Power Forward who was physical and could play some beastly defense and play him out of position at the center spot. Very few teams have a dominantly over powering offensive center anyway...of the best teams in the league, only Houston has one.

So I'd be happy with a post beast who could play rugged D as well. Got one of those handy, dirno?

[sike]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

like I said, he'll refuse to do it. He'll give you one game where he's great from the block, then 7 clanker-jump-shot games in a row. Trust me.. I used to watch EVERY game when he was on the blazers.

Like I said...a ton of bricks.

[pepe]

Originally Posted by ghazi

Some problematic early season stats:

17th in offensive efficiency
21st in defensive efficiency
42.8 % FG
30.5% 3PT FG

The defensive FG % is actually solid at 42.8%, but giving up way too many free throws. If we could maintain that % but foul less, our defensive efficiency would improve. Another problem though is that we're not great at forcing turnovers.

We're in the T5 as far as taking care of the basketball, but jeez... saw a lot of sloppy turnovers in the Magic, Lakers, and Bulls games.

The %'s on FG and 3PT need to improve by 4-5 points.

The defensive efficiency and offensive efficiency are terrible.

So basically, the Mavs have been about the 20th best team in the NBA so far. Ugh.

Agree the 3pt fg% needs to improve, I believe in time we will be fine in that department...I remember when Dirk and Terry were in the 3pt contest.

Shoot I just realized the MAVS are the only team without a W at home

[pepe]

Originally Posted by basketballgirl25

Marbury on the Mavericks, would he start? If he is playing backup too Kidd I'd wonder how long that will last before someone starts saying stuff. Look at the history of it all

Marbury will get his 20-25 minutes at least...back up to Kidd and some situations with Kidd in the floor...Right now he is not playing any minutes, Beggars can't be picky

[pepe]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

This team needs a low post threat. I personally feel that that's way more important than a SG, but that's just my take.

It will completely change the dynamic of this team and it will be something that I will be eager to see...Two of the most effective that could be available Cris Wilcox and Eddie Curry

[Dirkenstien]

I really wouldn't mind giving Curry a shot but his uninsured contract has got to be a tough pill to swallow. I don't think Cuban would do it.

I believe Wilcox could be had for a relatively cheap price.

[pepe]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

I really wouldn't mind giving Curry a shot but his uninsured contract has got to be a tough pill to swallow. I don't think Cuban would do it.

I believe Wilcox could be had for a relatively cheap price.

If Wilcox is available we need to try to get him..The guy scores most of his points at the paint and a very effective rate, It will be interesting to see how teams will react to Kidd looping the ball inside and see the defense collapsing for once.

Another stat...looks who's bench is last in (+ -) this season...take a guess?


http://www.82games.com/0809/STSORT16.HTM

[monty55555]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

I felt VC had a great jump shot to be a catch and shoot guy getting passes from Kidd, but he'd catch the pass and just hold it, then start dribbling and going one on one with the defender, when you do that, you make the game easier for the opponents. He will never be the slashing, motion type player. Plus I think Kidd has a grudge against VC, because VC doesn't work hard on his game,

Oh how I remember this all too well. Vince will forever thrive in the ISO game and he refuses to run/slash/move. Their games don't mix. He may occasionally run... but its not in him to do so on a regular basis. How many times did we see a perfect pass from JKidd to Vince for a catch and shoot only for Vince to dribble... dribble.. ISO... Ugh.

Also, I've heard about that "effort" thing too many times (from the Toronto Press even during his Toronto days during his prime). Plus, every single contact results in a "wince" from him ... Its almost as if every contact is going to injure him. Another UGH.

[Sportstudi]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Technically, we made it to the finals without a low post threat.. but it took an otherworldy playoff performance from Dirk and a lot of luck. It sure would have been easier with one.

And honestly it's pretty obvious we won't be able to repeat that, at least "exact", success with the state of mind the organization is in right now.

Yes... 42.7 mpg/27.0 ppg/11.7 rpg... simply an outstanding performance two years ago

[wmbwinn]

Dallas has had problems with:
1)turnovers, especially ball handling
2)shooting fouls, sending the opposition to the foul line a lot
3)poor half court offense
4)poor defensive rotation and position

In the Knicks game they went a long way to fix those things for one game.

See this thread:
http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showth...t=34250&page=3

posts 112,113 for more detail of the earlier games and 82games.com analysis.

anyway, the turnovers were WAY down. The shooting fouls were WAY down. The defensive rotations were still bad but no so bad that there were desperation shooting fouls. The half court was better with Dirk playing closer to the basket more often and JKidd backing his man down to the low post to force double team attention and then kicking to the open man for clear/open jumpers.

The Mavs played a lot better basic basketball.

[SeriousSummer]

You could trade Terry/Stackhouse/Bass/George/Williams/Diop for Curry/Marbury (the salaries work). There's your low-post threat in Curry--you still have Damp for defensive center--and Marbury could take Terry's role. If it doesn't work, then you can let Kidd and Marbury walk at the end of the year and do a major salary dump.

NY cuts Stackhouse and George and moves a couple of the other players somewhere for draft picks.

[wmbwinn]

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809DAL2.HTM

the above link shows the five man units the Mavs have played the most.

hard to argue against the JKidd, Green, JHo, Dirk, Dampier lineup...

The JKidd, Jet, JHo, Dirk, Dampier lineup is good also. Other lineups not so good.

But, there are too few games so far playing into those stats to form a conclusion.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

You could trade Terry/Stackhouse/Bass/George/Williams/Diop for Curry/Marbury (the salaries work). There's your low-post threat in Curry--you still have Damp for defensive center--and Marbury could take Terry's role. If it doesn't work, then you can let Kidd and Marbury walk at the end of the year and do a major salary dump.

NY cuts Stackhouse and George and moves a couple of the other players somewhere for draft picks.

Now, that is a shake up...

I really like Brandon Bass and think he needs some time to mature. Glad you didn't include Green in that trade because I like him to develop further also. Besides, the stats show Green is already a winner for the Mavs (see 82games 5 man units).

But, I do like the idea of picking up someone like Curry. I have felt for years that the Mavs were short a dominant low post man. Add a low post man in the years we lost to the Heat and then the Warriors... and we don't lose...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809DAL2.HTM

the above link shows the five man units the Mavs have played the most.

hard to argue against the JKidd, Green, JHo, Dirk, Dampier lineup...

The JKidd, Jet, JHo, Dirk, Dampier lineup is good also. Other lineups not so good.

But, there are too few games so far playing into those stats to form a conclusion.

I like to look at these as well. I agree that it's too early to take these without a grain of salt, however, I do have a few observations.

First of all, looking at these should get people to stop assuming that Diop and Damp are interchangeable. Damp's play in the last few games probably helps as well, but a lot of people over the summer were pushing the idea that Diop would come in, take over the starting job and play significant minutes. In reality, Damp is simply a significantly better player.

It's pretty amazing looking at the effect Stackhouse has on basicaly any lineup he's in. Holy cow he's been awful.

It's pretty startling just how awful the Barea/Terry/Green/Bass/Diop line is defensively. I mean it's common sense just looking at the players, but my goodness.

[wmbwinn]

Diop needs to get back in shape. He exploded onto the Dallas scene with dedicated fitness work and excitement. He is sorta fat and lazy now. He is not jumping and swatting shots and moving defensively like he did before. When he was at his peak, he could slow Amare and Duncan. Right now, no way.

[Zki41]

Yeah, we can't blame Carlisle for playing Bass when Diop isn't producing

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by Zki41

Yeah, we can't blame Carlisle for playing Bass when Diop isn't producing

Agreed. Same with playing Singleton. Bass and Singleton are both outplaying Diop currently.

[wmbwinn]

Damper was a mismatch in the last game. Singleton and Bass combined for 17 rebounds and 24 points and shot about 50% in combination, both carrying their weight.

[ghazi]

Interesting stat from that site, Dallas has been the 5th best 1st quarter team so far, and the 29th best 4th quarter team so far.

UGH.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by jthig32

First of all, looking at these should get people to stop assuming that Diop and Damp are interchangeable. Damp's play in the last few games probably helps as well, but a lot of people over the summer were pushing the idea that Diop would come in, take over the starting job and play significant minutes. In reality, Damp is simply a significantly better player.

+ rep

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I like to look at these as well. I agree that it's too early to take these without a grain of salt, however, I do have a few observations.

First of all, looking at these should get people to stop assuming that Diop and Damp are interchangeable. Damp's play in the last few games probably helps as well, but a lot of people over the summer were pushing the idea that Diop would come in, take over the starting job and play significant minutes. In reality, Damp is simply a significantly better player.

Well, that's certainly the case NOW, Diop's been terrible.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809DAL2.HTM

the above link shows the five man units the Mavs have played the most.

hard to argue against the JKidd, Green, JHo, Dirk, Dampier lineup...

The JKidd, Jet, JHo, Dirk, Dampier lineup is good also. Other lineups not so good.

But, there are too few games so far playing into those stats to form a conclusion.

That lineup gets the highest percentage of close range shots, and it's not even close.

That lineup also gives up the lowest percentage of close range shots, and it's not even close.

[candid_snoop41]

we should try to get gerald Wallace....he is a real beast!!! Great D, good rebounding, steal-machine...GET HIM

[basketballgirl25]

here are some videos of the knicks vs mavs if anyone wants to see
http://www.youtube.com/user/Netsgirl25

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Well, that's certainly the case NOW, Diop's been terrible.

It's always been the case.

[alby]

Our answer this summer was Jermaine.

[SMC0007]

^ And Wouldn't that be nice, next to Dirk!

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

That lineup gets the highest percentage of close range shots, and it's not even close.

That lineup also gives up the lowest percentage of close range shots, and it's not even close.

Agree that JKidd, Green, JHo, Dirk, and Dampier appears to be our best starting five right now. I noticed what you noticed also.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by alby

Our answer this summer was Jermaine.

Agreed. I was right there with you screaming to get Jermaine. But, we didn't. Players with the potential of Jermaine come available to one particular team's fortune maybe once per ten years. The low post scorer who can play with anyone in the low post is a rare and important resource and is a resource almost always present on championship teams....

[alby]

was it just TJ Ford in the deal?

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by alby

was it just TJ Ford in the deal?

I think that the trade included Rasho Nesterovic and a draft pick in addition to TJ Ford

[alby]

JET + Bass woulda done it, you think?