I can't take any more of Kidd

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by darkwitzki

Kidd was sent to provide gameplay, assists and leadership to our team, not to score points. We have plenty of scorers, we need defensive players.

That's just it.

Name the scorers on this team. Name them, Dirk, Josh, and Jet.

That's it. That's it. We have three scorers. Who else can you give the ball to and count on to score?

Put Dirk, Josh and Jet on the bench and who's going to put the ball in the hoop. Heck, who are you going to call plays for? Brandon Bass, I suppose. Bass is the 4th best scorer on the team.

Who's fifth? I don't think you could make an argument that we even have a fifth scorer. Green can score, but I'd hope he's not your 5th scorer, because he hardly gets 20 minutes most games. Wright can score sometimes, and other times he's missing layups and dunks. Dampier isn't consistant. He's good at hitting wide open dunks, but that's about it. Barea isn't consistant. He was putting up great number, and now he's shooting 10 and 20%. Devean George misses open threes way too much, and can't score from inside the arc. Diop can't, for sure. Singleton can score, but doesn't play much. Williams sucks at scoring, period. Jerry Stackhouse is hardly the answer, either...

And, obviously Kidd can't score. And it all ties back together. Kidd is a great point guard, but our team is missing scorers. At this point for the Mavs, we don't need a Kidd type player which the personal we have.

But, since we do have the personal that we have, then Kidd is called on to score. And he can't do that. Thus, he looks like crap, and everybody says he sucks. Which, to a point, is true. He does suck when he's called to be a scorer.

[MaVs 41 BaLler]

Originally Posted by ty

I think you, yourself need to re-read what you post. You even started a whole d*mn thread about it. Here ya go:



Read your own words for yourself. Like I said before...stop fiddle-farting on the fence.

Oh yah...and didn't you leave?

dang you got owned

[ty]

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

I seriously think you're a ********, the fact that you got had to get a thread from when I first joined the forum is comical. Seriously **** you.

The fact that you have nothing to say about your previous threads says a lot about the quality of your posting. If you don't mean what you have previously said, then don't say it.

All you continue to bring to this forum are your negative sentiments regarding Kidd and your infatuation with DH. I don't believe I am the only one here that is sick of it.

And yah...it really isn't very difficult to find threads created by a user FYI.

Back to the thread, so why can't anyone take any more of Kidd? I'd only throw in the towel on him if we made a trade and we continued to not work out.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by ty

The fact that you have nothing to say about your previous threads says a lot about the quality of your posting. If you don't mean what you have previously said, then don't say it.

All you continue to bring to this forum are your negative sentiments regarding Kidd and your infatuation with DH. I don't believe I am the only one here that is sick of it.

And yah...it really isn't very difficult to find threads created by a user FYI.

Back to the thread, so why can't anyone take any more of Kidd? I'd only throw in the towel on him if we made a trade and we continued to not work out.

No you're a moron, you know why? Because In the thread I said I had watched "OLD JASON KIDD GAMES AS A PHOENIX SUN, NEW JERSEY NET AND A FEW OF HIS GAMES WITH US LAST SEASON". Then I said that I thought of him as the best PG in the Nba. But the videos I watched were old and at the time of those games Kidd was arguably the Best Pg in the nba. But now Kidd is very mediocre, I can't blame him for being old but I can blame Cubes and Donnie for overpaying like crazy to get him.

[Dirkadirkastan]

I do indeed remember the days when everyone said it was impossible to play Harris and Terry together due to their size on the defensive end.

Of course, GS was the only team in the league that consistently took advantage of that.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by tcat075

That's just it.

Name the scorers on this team. Name them, Dirk, Josh, and Jet.

That's it. That's it. We have three scorers. Who else can you give the ball to and count on to score?

Put Dirk, Josh and Jet on the bench and who's going to put the ball in the hoop. Heck, who are you going to call plays for? Brandon Bass, I suppose. Bass is the 4th best scorer on the team.

Who's fifth? I don't think you could make an argument that we even have a fifth scorer. Green can score, but I'd hope he's not your 5th scorer, because he hardly gets 20 minutes most games. Wright can score sometimes, and other times he's missing layups and dunks. Dampier isn't consistant. He's good at hitting wide open dunks, but that's about it. Barea isn't consistant. He was putting up great number, and now he's shooting 10 and 20%. Devean George misses open threes way too much, and can't score from inside the arc. Diop can't, for sure. Singleton can score, but doesn't play much. Williams sucks at scoring, period. Jerry Stackhouse is hardly the answer, either...

And, obviously Kidd can't score. And it all ties back together. Kidd is a great point guard, but our team is missing scorers. At this point for the Mavs, we don't need a Kidd type player which the personal we have.

But, since we do have the personal that we have, then Kidd is called on to score. And he can't do that. Thus, he looks like crap, and everybody says he sucks. Which, to a point, is true. He does suck when he's called to be a scorer.

Good points. FO blew it this past offseason by not structuring a team that can succeed with Kidd. Going with unproven talent at the 2 was a bad risk when you made the Kidd all or nothing move. The thing about Kidd is he's supposed to make things easier for everyone. He hasn't demanded the rock enough to do that. I love how he would just play the pick and lob game with Damp. I mean 3-4 a quarter would definitely help give the team some offensive options, but it's not even a play in the playbook. I loved how time after time, in the XMAS game where we went with Barea-Bass on the pick and roll and Portland could not stop it. I had the Portland broadcasters on, and I was laughing at their frustration. Scoring options does not have to be singular one on one plays, Damp and Bass can catch and finish and with the best passer in the game, his talents aren't being meshed.

[jamyoa]

He wasn't showing it in Dallas, because Avery controlled his every move. All Avery had to do was just let him, and the Mavs play. That's y u don't c any team interested in Avery, because he's a control freak, who thinks he knows it all. P.S. Kidd, Howard, Stackhouse, and Diop all need to be traded! Package that up, and Mark can bring in another superstaer.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Good points. FO blew it this past offseason by not structuring a team that can succeed with Kidd. Going with unproven talent at the 2 was a bad risk when you made the Kidd all or nothing move. The thing about Kidd is he's supposed to make things easier for everyone. He hasn't demanded the rock enough to do that. I love how he would just play the pick and lob game with Damp. I mean 3-4 a quarter would definitely help give the team some offensive options, but it's not even a play in the playbook. I loved how time after time, in the XMAS game where we went with Barea-Bass on the pick and roll and Portland could not stop it. I had the Portland broadcasters on, and I was laughing at their frustration. Scoring options does not have to be singular one on one plays, Damp and Bass can catch and finish and with the best passer in the game, his talents aren't being meshed.

I agree.

Kidd IS an offensive weapon, but only when paired with another player. Pick and roll with Bass, drive and dish to Damp, lob to Green/Wright, drive and kick to Jet. That's were Kidd "scores" his points. If he would consistantly "score" that way, I'd have no problem.

But the past few games, Kidd hasn't been doing that. And you know what? He's looked like crap. Hmm.

The pick and roll and alley-oop passes haven't really been there much all season. Barea was the one using the pick and roll. I suppose Kidd isn't nearly as effective on the pick and roll, because he can't drive as well as Barea, but I have NEVER seen Kidd pick and roll with Bass. Damp, yes, but Damp doesn't have the outside game.

As for the alley oops, there was that one game that he closed out when a half dozen lobs. But besides that, even though he has a high-flyer in Green and people who can dunk in Wright and Bass and Singleton, he just hasn't been lobbing.

If Kidd would start lobbing half as much as CP3, it'd expand the offense a little.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

No you're a moron, you know why? Because In the thread I said I had watched "OLD JASON KIDD GAMES AS A PHOENIX SUN, NEW JERSEY NET AND A FEW OF HIS GAMES WITH US LAST SEASON". Then I said that I thought of him as the best PG in the Nba. But the videos I watched were old and at the time of those games Kidd was arguably the Best Pg in the nba. But now Kidd is very mediocre, I can't blame him for being old but I can blame Cubes and Donnie for overpaying like crazy to get him.

Can you freak out and leave again please?

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by tcat075

That's just it.

Name the scorers on this team. Name them, Dirk, Josh, and Jet.

That's it. That's it. We have three scorers. Who else can you give the ball to and count on to score?

Put Dirk, Josh and Jet on the bench and who's going to put the ball in the hoop. Heck, who are you going to call plays for? Brandon Bass, I suppose. Bass is the 4th best scorer on the team.

Who's fifth? I don't think you could make an argument that we even have a fifth scorer. Green can score, but I'd hope he's not your 5th scorer, because he hardly gets 20 minutes most games. Wright can score sometimes, and other times he's missing layups and dunks. Dampier isn't consistant. He's good at hitting wide open dunks, but that's about it. Barea isn't consistant. He was putting up great number, and now he's shooting 10 and 20%. Devean George misses open threes way too much, and can't score from inside the arc. Diop can't, for sure. Singleton can score, but doesn't play much. Williams sucks at scoring, period. Jerry Stackhouse is hardly the answer, either...

And, obviously Kidd can't score. And it all ties back together. Kidd is a great point guard, but our team is missing scorers. At this point for the Mavs, we don't need a Kidd type player which the personal we have.

But, since we do have the personal that we have, then Kidd is called on to score. And he can't do that. Thus, he looks like crap, and everybody says he sucks. Which, to a point, is true. He does suck when he's called to be a scorer.

Did you see that play last night with about a minute left and Kidd was open for a lay-up, but refused to go up to score while being under the basket and just threw the ball away in the stands? Thats the play that I said he has got to go. That has the back breaker right there, and yet another reason that teams will not defend him..

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Did you see that play last night with about a minute left and Kidd was open for a lay-up, but refused to go up to score while being under the basket and just threw the ball away in the stands? Thats the play that I said he has got to go. That has the back breaker right there, and yet another reason that teams will not defend him..

I think I remember it. Was it that he hesistated too long, and then went up and was blocked? That's what I remembered.

Doesn't matter. If its two seperate plays we're thinking of, it just proves your point even more.

I agree. It seems that Kidd isn't hesistant to take an open 3, even if he's 0/6 and none of his shots are even close. Yet he seems to want to go back into his shell when he's driving the lane. He kinda slows down as he approaches the basket, like he wants to pass it, even if he has a step on his man.

Its pretty clear: Jason Kidd is not a scorer anymore. And its pretty clear the Mavericks NEED Jason Kidd to be a scorer.

And that's where trouble comes in.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by tcat075

I think I remember it. Was it that he hesistated too long, and then went up and was blocked? That's what I remembered.

Doesn't matter. If its two seperate plays we're thinking of, it just proves your point even more.

I agree. It seems that Kidd isn't hesistant to take an open 3, even if he's 0/6 and none of his shots are even close. Yet he seems to want to go back into his shell when he's driving the lane. He kinda slows down as he approaches the basket, like he wants to pass it, even if he has a step on his man.

Its pretty clear: Jason Kidd is not a scorer anymore. And its pretty clear the Mavericks NEED Jason Kidd to be a scorer.

And that's where trouble comes in.

I remember that play you are talking about as well. The one I am talking about is the one when ultimately he threw the ball in the stands right by the Hornet bench there at the end of the game, where he received the ball at the basket and did not take it straight up for the score, but dribble out and threw the ball away.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I remember that play you are talking about as well. The one I am talking about is the one when ultimately he threw the ball in the stands right by the Hornet bench there at the end of the game, where he received the ball at the basket and did not take it straight up for the score, but dribble out and threw the ball away.

I might remember that one as well.

Sometimes, it seems like Kidd won't score around the basket, not just that he can't score...

[MavericksFan5912]

Jason Kidd is scared to get his stuff blocked and end up on the wrong end of a SportsCenter highlight. I don't blame him, I would be too if I played in the league (but thats why I shouldn't be paid millions of dollars to play basketball for a premier team in the most talented league in the world).

Simply put, the Mavs FO let us down by dramatically overpaying for Kidd.

Think about the secret to the Spurs success: buy and develop young talent for cheap. The Mavs FO could learn a lot from their success.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by MavericksFan5912

Simply put, the Mavs FO let us down by dramatically overpaying for Kidd.

I totally agree with this notion, I just don't understand why so many people around here (not you, particularly) tend to blame this fact on Jason Kidd, as if he's the one who engineered the deal & all...

Kidd is solid - it just would have been nice to have enough pieces left over to make another deal for a player who could bring the slashing/scoring ability we lost in Devin Harris...

Blame Donnie & Cuban - Kidd is doing exactly what he was brought here to do and it isn't enough to put this team over the top... We still need to make another move but we don't have any expendable pieces - welcome to darker days...

[erdubya]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Given our attempt to run an offense suited for him earlier this year, didn't result in the desired record, we've reverted back to a Avery style offense. The initial offense we were to run was the one run in NJ, which takes a lot of motion, cutting, picks, to free up guys slashing to the hoop. It takes 5 guys on the same page to run it. I would imagine things broke down a lot early in the season and eventually it was scrapped.

That's all I was saying right there. Too much Iso and Pick-n-pop, penetrate-n-dish to the perimiter...Oh and the Mavs staple... swing the ball from the left corner around the perimeter to the right elbow for the "open" jump shot.. We need more motion... especially on the interior.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by MavericksFan5912

Jason Kidd is scared to get his stuff blocked and end up on the wrong end of a SportsCenter highlight. I don't blame him, I would be too if I played in the league (but thats why I shouldn't be paid millions of dollars to play basketball for a premier team in the most talented league in the world).

Simply put, the Mavs FO let us down by dramatically overpaying for Kidd.

Think about the secret to the Spurs success: buy and develop young talent for cheap. The Mavs FO could learn a lot from their success.

Yes they do need to learn from SA.

How to get the #1 pick in the draft when the next Superstar Big man comes out.

Multiple times.

[Windmill360]

I can't take it anymore.

[BGMaverick9]

Bob O: "The Ball is his prop, the court is his stage."
Jason F'n Kidd

[SMC0007]

THIS THREAD =

[craggmac]

Hmmm.... naaaaaaahh

More Like..

[darkwitzki]

yea' that's my Kidd!

[Tokey41]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

The front office has until the trade deadline before judgement day. They need a move to make this trade look like a stroke of genius... or else by that point even the people who haven't figured it out yet will realize how crippling that single trade was to the future of this franchise.

Great, now i'm going to be salivating about a Davis/Camby swap for Kidd until the trade deadline. Which team doesn't do this deal? The Clippers are done this season anyway (tank it up), and I'm sure they want to get rid of that long contract they just gave Davis.

He may be injury prone, he may have completely embaressed us in the playoffs, but he is still a quality point guard... and younger too. Throw Camby in and they will make you forget all about the horrors of this trade and our FO will be hailed as heroes not only by us, but by the media as well.

[bernardos70]

The problem with that is that as far as I know, Baron isn't standing out a whole lot. And if you remember his time with the Charlotte Hornets....... you'll know just how awful he can be. We should know better than to think a player will be successful in any team's system just because he put up amazing numbers and performances for a run-and-gun-team.

[Triple T's]

sadly, most people that post nowadays have grown up in an era where people look to shoot first. that fact that you think Kidd needs to score points to be effective shows your complete and utter lack of basketball knowledge. You can say Kidd has lost a bit of quickness, thats true. But what he hasn't lost, was his ability to run a team. countless numbers of times, hes made plays on the defensive end to save teh game for us or put us in better position to win. He is still almost tops in the league in steals and assists.

So you tell me, if CP3 wasnt a knockdown shooter, would he be nearly as effective?

The fact that you dont really notice the point guard on the floor is a testament to how smooth the offense is running.

And so what is Harris doing over in NJ lately? Besides putting up points on a bad team? When devin leads NJ team to the playoffs, let's talk. Till then, he's not a player that makes his team better.

This generation of fantasy leaguers will never appreciate a talent like kidd unless he is filling a stat sheet. I suppose if you can't quantify it, you can't measure it. And if you can't measure it, you can't justify it.

Don' be surprised if this team hits a double digit win streak by the all-star break ...

[ty]

Stockton was never criticized for not scoring, with a career 13.1 PPG.

Kidd has a career 14 PPG.

[alby]

Originally Posted by Triple T's

sadly, most people that post nowadays have grown up in an era where people look to shoot first. that fact that you think Kidd needs to score points to be effective shows your complete and utter lack of basketball knowledge. You can say Kidd has lost a bit of quickness, thats true. But what he hasn't lost, was his ability to run a team. countless numbers of times, hes made plays on the defensive end to save teh game for us or put us in better position to win. He is still almost tops in the league in steals and assists.

So you tell me, if CP3 wasnt a knockdown shooter, would he be nearly as effective?

The fact that you dont really notice the point guard on the floor is a testament to how smooth the offense is running.

And so what is Harris doing over in NJ lately? Besides putting up points on a bad team? When devin leads NJ team to the playoffs, let's talk. Till then, he's not a player that makes his team better.

This generation of fantasy leaguers will never appreciate a talent like kidd unless he is filling a stat sheet. I suppose if you can't quantify it, you can't measure it. And if you can't measure it, you can't justify it.

Don' be surprised if this team hits a double digit win streak by the all-star break ...

Post of the Year. Thank you.

[Tokey41]

Originally Posted by ty

Stockton was never criticized for not scoring, with a career 13.1 PPG.

Kidd has a career 14 PPG.

Stockton was also the all-time steals leader. Whatever Kidd can do Baron can do just as effectively, except the guy can score. All he needs is the motivation of a winning team (and not to be 'the man'). The only problem is if the Clips would do this, we'd need to give up something else and take garbage, might even have to be Howard.

If we can pull this trade off we would have converted Harris, Diop, and picks into Davis, Camby, Carroll, and Hollins. If that's not an upgrade I don't know what is... it's nothing but a good idea. And the best part? No one will be complaining about the Kidd trade after the Mavs get their rings!

[stewartj]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Stockton was also the all-time steals leader. Whatever Kidd can do Baron can do just as effectively, except the guy can score. All he needs is the motivation of a winning team (and not to be 'the man'). The only problem is if the Clips would do this, we'd need to give up something else and take garbage, might even have to be Howard.

If we can pull this trade off we would have converted Harris, Diop, and picks into Davis, Camby, Carroll, and Hollins. If that's not an upgrade I don't know what is... it's nothing but a good idea. And the best part? No one will be complaining about the Kidd trade after the Mavs get their rings!

Kidd's not as good as he once was defensively, but he is a prolific steal machine. Stockton averaged 2.1 spg over his career while Kidd averages 2.0. Just not sure I see what your point is here.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Stockton was also the all-time steals leader. Whatever Kidd can do Baron can do just as effectively, except the guy can score. All he needs is the motivation of a winning team (and not to be 'the man'). The only problem is if the Clips would do this, we'd need to give up something else and take garbage, might even have to be Howard.

Dude, are you joking? This is horrendously inaccurate.

[RareMilk]

Man if what Tokey41 said is true about Kidd = Baron then I'm fine with the trade! Unfortunately Baron does not "do just as effectively" as Kidd.

[craggmac]

I think that we should trade Kidd to Phoenix for Shaq and move him to run point. I heard his numbers are great this season.

[Tokey41]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Dude, are you joking? This is horrendously inaccurate.

All i'm saying is I would do Kidd for Davis/Camby in a heartbeat. And yes, his age still concerns me and it will always concern me so long as he's a Maverick. And his expiring contract concerns me too... the guy wants to win a ring. Do you think he's going to resign here if we can't give him the tools to do that? That's pretty naive, Kidd looks out for Kidd. Baron has that nice new contract, I'd feel more secure with him running the show here (and a LOT better about our chances for a title).

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

All i'm saying is I would do Kidd for Davis/Camby in a heartbeat. And yes, his age still concerns me and it will always concern me so long as he's a Maverick. And his expiring contract concerns me too... the guy wants to win a ring. Do you think he's going to resign here if we can't give him the tools to do that? That's pretty naive, Kidd looks out for Kidd. Baron has that nice new contract, I'd feel more secure with him running the show here (and a LOT better about our chances for a title).

I'm torn about the trade, but you are completely entitled to your opinion. That's not the same thing as saying that Baron "can do anything just as well as Kidd," though. That's just an untrue statement.

[Tokey41]

Fair enough. But it's always a possibility that when Davis comes to a contender his stats will change dramatically (we have plenty of examples of stars getting rejuvenated). Unless you considered GSW a contender while he was there he's never really played for one has he? Let's see what a truly motivated Davis can accomplish. As far as i'm concerned it's no riskier than the trade for Kidd was, and since that experiment isn't getting us to the finals, let's give it another shot.

And just out of curiosity, aren't you concerned about Kidd leaving in FA if someone offers big bucks? He wants that ring. Doesn't this concern anyone?

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I'm torn about the trade, but you are completely entitled to your opinion. That's not the same thing as saying that Baron "can do anything just as well as Kidd," though. That's just an untrue statement.

They are two very different players and are effective in different ways. I'd much rather have the package of Kaman and Baron vs Camby and Baron. Camby/Baron isn't definitely a do it in a heartbeat deal for me...Kaman/Baron is pretty darn close.

I LOVE Jason Kidd but you'd really have to lean towards taking that deal.

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Fair enough. But it's always a possibility that when Davis comes to a contender his stats will change dramatically (we have plenty of examples of stars getting rejuvenated). Unless you considered GSW a contender while he was there he's never really played for one has he? Let's see what a truly motivated Davis can accomplish. As far as i'm concerned it's no riskier than the trade for Kidd was, and since that experiment isn't getting us to the finals, let's give it another shot.

And just out of curiosity, aren't you concerned about Kidd leaving in FA if someone offers big bucks? He wants that ring. Doesn't this concern anyone?

Who is going to offer 2-3 years for Kidd? On top of that, who is going to do it at about 15 million per year?

The 3-0 trip with him in control would kind of suggest his chances might be getting better than hoped before at winning a ring here. I'm not saying they're going to win, but the chances seem to be getting better.

I would say motivation is a pretty big issue for Baron's year, I just wouldn't put ALL my stock in coming here making him the Baron we've seen before.

Also, it works straight up with salary for Kidd and either LAC combo. I'm not sure they'd really ask for Howard as you suggested. The money can still roll off, but it's a quick fix with just Kidd.

[dalger]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Who is going to offer 2-3 years for Kidd? On top of that, who is going to do it at about 15 million per year?

If our FO was able to talk the Clippers into a Kaman/Davis for Kidd deal, which I doubt, I would do it as well despite the fact that I love Kidd's game and leadership.

I think that Kidd's next contract might be more about winning a championship than making lots of money. He's done that already. Which teams are more likely to win it all than the Mavs next season? I guess Boston, Cleveland, LA, San Antonio, and maybe New Orleans. With the exception of the Lakers, all of them have great point guards which means that Kidd wouldn't get as many minutes as he would like to. These teams might not even be interested in him at all.

The Lakers seem like a possible destination for Kidd. Kidd would definitely be an upgrade over Fisher and could play heavy minutes. Their great chances at winning a championship could lead to Kidd accepting less money than elsewhere.

If Kidd wasn't able to end up on a better team than the Mavs in order to win a championship, we might be in a good position to resign him for substantially less money, assuming that there's no other team on our level offering him lots of years and dollars.

[cinemablend]

Originally Posted by Triple T's

sadly, most people that post nowadays have grown up in an era where people look to shoot first. that fact that you think Kidd needs to score points to be effective shows your complete and utter lack of basketball knowledge. You can say Kidd has lost a bit of quickness, thats true. But what he hasn't lost, was his ability to run a team. countless numbers of times, hes made plays on the defensive end to save teh game for us or put us in better position to win. He is still almost tops in the league in steals and assists.

I totally respect that about Kidd. Like I said, I think a team could win a championship with him easily.

Maybe the problem isn't Kidd, it's just that he doesn't have the right team. The Mavs need more scorers and because they don't have them it kills them that their PG can't score.

Kidd and the Mavs have been kicking butt lately so maybe it'll work out in the end. But in order for the Mavs to kick butt you have to rely on getting offensive production from guys like Barea, Bass and Wright. I'm afraid that's going to drop off and we'll be right back where we were, with a team that usually only has 2 people who can actually score on the floor at any given time.

It's especially bad since Howard is our third scoring option. The problem with Howard is that he's more effective when he's not really TRYING to score, he just lets it come to him. So your third scoring option is a guy who is better when he's not really trying to score.

It's not that Kidd is bad, it's that Kidd needs to be on the Pheonix Suns, surrounded by players who can put the dang ball in the hoop.

Maybe he can compensate for that by turning inconsistent scorers like Bass and Wright into consistent contributors. I hope so!

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by ty

Stockton was never criticized for not scoring, with a career 13.1 PPG.

Kidd has a career 14 PPG.

Kidd doesn't get criticized for not scoring as much as for being a horrible shooter. It probably cost him an MVP in 2002. Stockton shot over 50% for his career, an obscene number for a PG, while Kidd is hovering around 40%.

[ghazi]

The only reason to do that trade really would be Camby. Davis is absolutely a downgrade at PG, and anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't watched him play lately and is just recalling the fluke jump shots he hit in the series against us... but he is still pretty good when healthy and motivated.