Jason Kidd Hints At Being In Cleveland Next Season

[TheMaverick]

Originally Posted by Thomas86

It's funny how you failed to mention that the Mavs where #2 or #3 in the west before the trade went down, eveybody has there own opinions on how this team started to decline....you said it started after the Golden State loss and I say the decline started when we Dirk/Cuban traded a 25 year old for a 34 at the time, If Devin was still on this team we would not be fighting to stay in the playoffs right now and that's a fact.


Charles Barkley said on TNT that the Mavs can't get easy points anymore and he was right and that was hard for me to admit....Devin could get easy point for us because he could attack the paint and get to the FT line and we don't have that anymore, I'm not trying to bash Kidd but that trade made us old real fast and now Kidd might walk and we would have traded Devin for Antione Wright, If would be smart to let Kidd walk and try to do a sign n trade with the Cavs if the Cavs really want Kidd.

When we were getting easy baskets or points, it was mainly because of Josh Howard. The continuing fall of the Dallas Mavericks can easily be paralleled with the fall of Josh Howard. The Kidd/Harris thing isn't the focal topic we shouldn't be discussing.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Thomas86

It's funny how you failed to mention that the Mavs where #2 or #3 in the west before the trade went down, eveybody has there own opinions on how this team started to decline....you said it started after the Golden State loss and I say the decline started when we Dirk/Cuban traded a 25 year old for a 34 at the time, If Devin was still on this team we would not be fighting to stay in the playoffs right now and that's a fact.

I'm not "failing" to mention anything. It's you who aren't considering the externalities (again):

-The Mavs were 2nd or 3rd in the West before the landscape of the entire conference changed with the Gasol and Shaq trades. You could argue that Shaq didn't make the Suns better, but you certainly can't argue that about Gasol. The Lakers moving up would have bumped the Mavs down to 3rd or 4th, even if nothing else changed.

-The Mavs were 2nd or 3rd in the West not even halfway through Rick Adelman's first season in Houston, where he clearly needed some time to get things to gel (and, lo and behold, they go on a 22-game winning streak).

-The Mavs were 2nd or 3rd in the conference before the Spurs traded for Kurt Thomas, which helped fill their single biggest hole--rebounding (which, incidentally, was more or less the reason the Mavs beat them in the 2006 playoffs).

-The Mavs were 2nd or 3rd in the conference before the 76ers traded Kyle Korver to the Jazz, a move that helped patch a glaring hole on that Jazz squad. Since you seem to put so much stock into what Chaz Barkley says, why don't you go back and listen to what he said about this trade? He thought it was HUGE--that it helped turn the Jazz from a decent playoff team into a contender.

-The Mavs were 2nd or 3rd in the West before Josh Howard was playing like a complete imbecile 80% of the time.

Here's the thing: it's possible that the trade put the Mavs in a slightly worse current position than they would have been in with Devin. It's really hard to say. But the all-too-common claim is that the trade singlehandedly knocked the Mavs from "West contender" to "better-than-average West team."

If you want to engage in that sort of short-sighted analysis, fine by me. But that's all it is: short-sighted. The biggest reason for the Mavs decline is that other teams have improved relatively, through forces over which the Mavs had absolutely zero control. That, and a sharp decline in the efficiency of a guy who was previously their 2nd best player.

[dirno2000]

The increased competition in the West doesn't explain why we aren't even competitive a lot of nights or the repeated failure to rise to the ocassion when an opportunity presents itself (the most recent example being the road GS game). This team clearly isn't as good as it used to be.

Now we can put it all on Josh but I've been seeing a lot of people overrating old Josh to make the decline look more dramatic. Outside of rebounding there's not a big difference in the numbers between this year and his all star year.

[Tokey41]

So your saying that we wouldn't be second/third in the west because... teams changed? We could have changed too, well technically we did change... the difference is our trade backfired. We would have been better off going after a need, a legit two guard or a center with some scoring ability. We had some nice assets to throw. Not anymore.

Did we need a change? I think most would argue we did, but I don't think anyone would argue that this was the right course of action.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

The increased competition in the West doesn't explain why we aren't even competitive a lot of nights or the repeated failure to rise to the ocassion when an opportunity presents itself (the most recent example being the road GS game). This team clearly isn't as good as it used to be.

Now we can put it all on Josh but I've been seeing a lot of people overrating old Josh to make the decline look more dramatic. Outside of rebounding there's not a big difference in the numbers between this year and his all star year.

You wonn't find me overrating the old Josh. The dude has been a dog--woof, woof--since he's been here.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

The increased competition in the West doesn't explain why we aren't even competitive a lot of nights or the repeated failure to rise to the ocassion when an opportunity presents itself (the most recent example being the road GS game). This team clearly isn't as good as it used to be.

Now we can put it all on Josh but I've been seeing a lot of people overrating old Josh to make the decline look more dramatic. Outside of rebounding there's not a big difference in the numbers between this year and his all star year.

I completely agree that they aren't as good as they used to be, but there are plenty of reasons for that that have nothing to do with the trade. They are older. They are less confident and less mentally tough, surely due to the two consecutive heartbreaking playoff losses. They don't communicate as well on defense and they aren't as aggressive on offense. They no longer get anything from a guy who was a key contributor (Stackhouse). They no longer get good defensive production from a true center for 48 minutes per game.

I could go on and on. The point is that people are quick to point to the trade as the reason for the Mavs' current predicament. It's not. It may be contributing, but it's an overly-simplified analysis to just say "the Mavs suck because they made a bad trade." Even if the trade was bad, it wasn't THAT bad. Kidd has been a pretty damn good player. The trade by itself certainly wasn't enough to knock the Mavs from a 67-win, NBA-dominating #1 seed to a borderline lottery team. No way.

[BGMaverick9]

^

mmmm hmmm

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I'm not "failing" to mention anything. It's you who aren't considering the externalities (again):

-The Mavs were 2nd or 3rd in the West before the landscape of the entire conference changed with the Gasol and Shaq trades. You could argue that Shaq didn't make the Suns better, but you certainly can't argue that about Gasol. The Lakers moving up would have bumped the Mavs down to 3rd or 4th, even if nothing else changed.

-The Mavs were 2nd or 3rd in the West not even halfway through Rick Adelman's first season in Houston, where he clearly needed some time to get things to gel (and, lo and behold, they go on a 22-game winning streak).

-The Mavs were 2nd or 3rd in the conference before the Spurs traded for Kurt Thomas, which helped fill their single biggest hole--rebounding (which, incidentally, was more or less the reason the Mavs beat them in the 2006 playoffs).

-The Mavs were 2nd or 3rd in the conference before the 76ers traded Kyle Korver to the Jazz, a move that helped patch a glaring hole on that Jazz squad. Since you seem to put so much stock into what Chaz Barkley says, why don't you go back and listen to what he said about this trade? He thought it was HUGE--that it helped turn the Jazz from a decent playoff team into a contender.

-The Mavs were 2nd or 3rd in the West before Josh Howard was playing like a complete imbecile 80% of the time.

Here's the thing: it's possible that the trade put the Mavs in a slightly worse current position than they would have been in with Devin. It's really hard to say. But the all-too-common claim is that the trade singlehandedly knocked the Mavs from "West contender" to "better-than-average West team."

If you want to engage in that sort of short-sighted analysis, fine by me. But that's all it is: short-sighted. The biggest reason for the Mavs decline is that other teams have improved relatively, through forces over which the Mavs had absolutely zero control. That, and a sharp decline in the efficiency of a guy who was previously their 2nd best player.

What title contenders have the Mavs beat since getting Jason Kidd man?...I don't feel like reading your long paragraphs taking about the other teams in the west and how they got better because I don't care...just tell me the title contender the Mavs beat since getting Jason Kidd because I would like to know?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Thomas86

What title contenders have the Mavs beat since getting Jason Kidd man?...I don't feel like reading your long paragraphs taking about the other teams in the west and how they got better because I don't care...just tell me the title contender the Mavs beat since getting Jason Kidd because I would like to know?

Translation: I don't feel like reading arguments that completely debunk my oversimplified, short-sighted point.

I'm very sorry that my 1-2 sentence paragraphs are apparently too dense for you. Please feel free to get on basketball-reference.com yourself and pull some results, if you want to see which title contenders the Mavs have beaten since getting Kidd. Unless you think the only title contenders are the Lakers and the Celtics, they've done it numerous times.

Oh, and my apologies in advance for the previous paragraph; I see that it is three sentences long, which is clearly pushing your upper limit.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Thomas86

What title contenders have the Mavs beat since getting Jason Kidd man?...I don't feel like reading your long paragraphs taking about the other teams in the west and how they got better because I don't care...just tell me the title contender the Mavs beat since getting Jason Kidd because I would like to know?

Mix in some punctuation, dude!

[TheMaverick]

Longhorndub > Thomas86

[Underdog]

LonghornDub > My Mom

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Thomas86

What title contenders have the Mavs beat since getting Jason Kidd man?...I don't feel like reading your long paragraphs taking about the other teams in the west and how they got better because I don't care...just tell me the title contender the Mavs beat since getting Jason Kidd because I would like to know?

If you can't read "long" paragraphs then don't start conversations with idiotic points that you can't back up.

Pathetic.

[Dirkenstien]

This was the main reason I was upset to see us not trade Kidd before the trade deadline. The risk of losing Kidd for nothing is just too great and this makes the Harris for Kidd trade absolutely terrible.

If we would have accepted the Baron Davis and Kaman for Kidd deal that was rumored to be proposed we could have resurrected some success from that Kidd-Harris trade and have players to compete and move forward with.

As a sidenote, I see Kidd going to the Lakers in the off-season. He'd be the perfect compliment to that team, especially now that he has the 3 point shot in his arsenal.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

LOL. Oh is that how it went? Kidd turned the Spurs down lol?

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/09/sp...the-spurs.html

Jason Kidd and his wife, Joumana, returned to New Jersey from a lavish 26-hour recruiting visit to San Antonio late Monday, laden with a $94 million maximum offer and visions of winning a championship. The Spurs' presentation was so persuasive that Kidd was leaning toward signing with the N.B.A champions, according to three people with intimate knowledge of the Nets.

When the Nets learned yesterday of Kidd's inclination, the organization acted quickly to try to convince him that New Jersey was still the best place for him and his family. The Nets, though, are running out of time. Kidd told the Spurs and the Nets that he hoped to make a decision by Friday and no later than Monday.

[MX425]

Don't forget Portland got Rudy and ODen and some more experience for their young team. Point in fact, The West changed and it changed fast. The Mav's hit on 17 and came out bust right now but the dealer was holding 19. Harris was my favorite player but does everyone forget how lathargic Dirk's play was becoming before the trade? The trade backfired as designed but we are still on of the top 12 teams in the league.

Anyone who says we should let Kidd walk, or only if he will stay for cheap needs a lesson in Salary Cap 101. If he walks we are left with no PG and no means of filling the whole except for giving up another piece (remember when Nash left). If we sign Kidd to a 10 mil offer and then are unsuccesful in adding other pieces we then trade a 10 mil expiring contract to a team that wants the cap space.

The FO has made some bad decisions and Cuban might have pulled the trigger on some bad trades but I would rather have some one guiding my team who is willing to pull the trigger.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by TheMaverick

When we were getting easy baskets or points, it was mainly because of Josh Howard. The continuing fall of the Dallas Mavericks can easily be paralleled with the fall of Josh Howard. The Kidd/Harris thing isn't the focal topic we shouldn't be discussing.

Plus the Mavs overvaluing him in comparison to Ron Artest. I also believe the Mavs tried to revert back to 2006, bringing Diop back. Counting on Stackhouse, bringing in a Gerald Green with hopes of Daniels. Singleton-Jamison, you can't repeat history. Stackhouse is done. They overvalued and miscalculated their chips. The move of Harris, really, really was a double decline in that it took JHo down too. Kidd is good, but he isn't God. Mavs took some gambles and it has turned out to be a big failure...now if they can somehow parlay this in to Chris Bosh or another super stud, the Harris deal sunk the Mavs. Not only is Dirk's game rebuilt(from Nash) for Harris, now he's trying to work on his game to go with Kidd, but Kidd's probably 1 good year from the HOF count.

[SMC0007]

What does this mean, attempt to sign Kidd for 10 mil for one year? Well those who would say it's too much money for the talent in return, I agree with. But to think that he would resign for one year is kinda crazy. He said he wasn't interested in that kind of deal. So if you are Kidd, are you going to sign a 1 year deal here with the possability of getting shipped out to the clipps mid season? I don't think so. There are all kinds of scenarios that we can come up with that would end in the very likely posability that Kidd will not be resigning here unless he is wanting to get paid above all else (winning a ring) and with our team make-up it would be kind of a bad move for us to entertain that. I would like to think that Kidd will ultimately go where he can honestly feel like a team has the opportunity to win a championship, that is all that is left in his carreer IMO. If he has anything left after that maybe he would attempt to go elsewhere as a back up or something.

Agreed.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Agreed.

at worst, if the scenario is to keeping going with Dirk, at worst you sign and trade Kidd to at least add movable chips to the pot. It was great how Cuban moved Jamison and found Stackhouse and Harris years ago.....letting Kidd walk is not the way to go....at least without a backup plan...at least Harris was on the roster, with Nash pondering his future.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

You continue to discredit yourself with every post.

Harris>>>>>Kidd.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

You continue to discredit yourself with every post.

Actually you lose credibility for not being able to admit the Kidd trade was godawful. You have a point in your earlier post when you say the Mavs may not have been great, they did lose to an 8th seed warriors. But the Kidd trade killed this team, if we had tried to fill our holes at the SG and C, I say we would be way better than what we are now. But even though, what I have said is true I expect: You and others still trying to say this trade isn't a franchise killer even though all the stats and games after the trade clearly show it. So who's losing credibility here?

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

Actually you lose credibility for not being able to admit the Kidd trade was godawful. You have a point in your earlier post when you say the Mavs may not have been great, they did lose to an 8th seed warriors. But the Kidd trade killed this team, if we had tried to fill our holes at the SG and C, I say we would be way better than what we are now. But even though, what I have said is true I expect: You and others still trying to say this trade isn't a franchise killer even though all the stats and games after the trade clearly show it. So who's losing credibility here?

I don't know if Kidd killed this team, but assume the trade was never made, plug Harris onto this roster, you have a resigned Diop, toss in the 20th pick, then what? Cuban spends the MLE on Pietrus? Fill the 2 guard role with a legit player? Avery would still be here. Howard would not have faltered as badly as he did, that's for sure, if Harris was a true friend, I'm sure he would have helped Howard a lot last year....so psychologically, it's a + for Harris, does Johnson release the leash on Harris....in the past what 16 months? Lot of what if's to ponder....but just looking at those things, having Harris now, would be huge, since he can score.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

I don't know if Kidd killed this team, but assume the trade was never made, plug Harris onto this roster, you have a resigned Diop, toss in the 20th pick, then what? Cuban spends the MLE on Pietrus? Fill the 2 guard role with a legit player? Avery would still be here. Howard would not have faltered as badly as he did, that's for sure, if Harris was a true friend, I'm sure he would have helped Howard a lot last year....so psychologically, it's a + for Harris, does Johnson release the leash on Harris....in the past what 16 months? Lot of what if's to ponder....but just looking at those things, having Harris now, would be huge, since he can score.

Exactly, this is the kind of scenario I was mentioning earlier. If the MGT had done this, instead of the Kidd trade we would still be a very good team.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

Exactly, this is the kind of scenario I was mentioning earlier. If the MGT had done this, instead of the Kidd trade we would still be a very good team.

...if the MLE is used on a player like a Pietrus, rather than status quo on Stackhouse and patch work of Green. Then with the 21st pick, you're looking at Ryan Anderson, CDR, Darrell Arthur, Donte Greene, Nick Batum, etc.....or you could move the pick for an established player.....lots more chips to work with on the personnel side, versus having Kidd. I thought the MLE was the key, hind sight should have us signing Pietrus rather than Diop.

[LSMF]

The tags are funny lol, seems someone is getting mad because Im owning the Kidd trade.

[Tokey41]

The Kidd trade is undoubtedly part of the Mavericks collapse. If you can't accept that then I don't know what to tell you. It's not ALL of it, but it sure as hell came at the same time.

We changed our entire teams identity with that trade. If we wanted to stop being an ISO team maybe we should have traded for players better suited to play with Kidd as well... but unfortunately we had a team that was pretty much designed to be ISO. The logical steps would have been getting a bigger two guard (hell even if he couldn't shoot, someone larger and able to defend would have been fine at that point), and a center that can score. That's all we needed to be better than the west elite. I don't even think we were worse at that point, they just caught up.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Longsuffering, we get it. The trade was bad. Why be an ass about it though? Trashing Kidd gets Mavs fans nowhere. Would I rather have Harris right now? Um yeah, probably. It's not going to happen though so grow up and move on.

I'm a Mavs fan before a Harris fan. Real fans of their teams don't choose single players over the franchise. If Dirk gets traded in the next 2-3 years, then I'm just going to have to get over it eventually. Will it suck? Yeah. Why keep doggin the Harris trade though? Let it go...

Harris is still very injury-prone which is my opinion as to why he was traded. You really can't fault the franchise for trading away injury-prone players. Howard should be next based on injuries this season alone...

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Longsuffering, we get it. The trade was bad. Why be an ass about it though? Trashing Kidd gets Mavs fans nowhere. Would I rather have Harris right now? Um yeah, probably. It's not going to happen though so grow up and move on.

I'm a Mavs fan before a Harris fan. Real fans of their teams don't choose single players over the franchise. If Dirk gets traded in the next 2-3 years, then I'm just going to have to get over it eventually. Will it suck? Yeah. Why keep doggin the Harris trade though? Let it go...

Harris is still very injury-prone which is my opinion as to why he was traded. You really can't fault the franchise for trading away injury-prone players. Howard should be next based on injuries this season alone...

No. You and a select few others get this. Many will still try to act like this was a good trade and point fingers at people like Josh Howard for the team sucking. Fact is Josh Howard was playing great basketball before the godawful trade, fact is the Kidd trade eventually got Avery fired and he was the only one who could get these guys to play defense, we lost two 1st round picks in the trade which could have helped us get some key role players, we lost speed and youth. The negatives off the trade outweigh the positives in an alarming fashion and yet some people can't admit it. That's why Im an %!% about it. I just can't understand some people's love of Jason Kidd, what has he done for us that makes people love this guy so much??

And PS - I hate Avery Johnson but lately I've been wondering that if he was the only man capable of getting these guys to commit to defense was it such a good idea to fire him?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

No. You and a select few others get this. Many will still try to act like this was a good trade and point fingers at people like Josh Howard for the team sucking. Fact is Josh Howard was playing great basketball before the godawful trade, fact is the Kidd trade eventually got Avery fired and he was the only one who could get these guys to play defense, we lost two 1st round picks in the trade which could have helped us get some key role players, we lost speed and youth. The negatives off the trade outweigh the positives in an alarming fashion and yet some people can't admit it. That's why Im an %!% about it. I just can't understand some people's love of Jason Kidd, what has he done for us that makes people love this guy so much??

And PS - I hate Avery Johnson but lately I've been wondering that if he was the only man capable of getting these guys to commit to defense was it such a good idea to fire him?

He has played 10 more games than Harris which is huge if Harris was on the Mavs this season. You could easily say that if Kidd missed 10 extra games this season that we might not even be in the playoffs right now. Showing up to play holds huge value in my eyes.

Of course many on here won't admit to it being a bad trade because it does no good. OK the trade was bad, what now? Crying over it doesn't help anyone. Most franchises make bad trades. Why try to convince the world you are right just so that we can be hateful about it all the live-long day? My own mother will just ignore the subject because she knows that it doesn't do any good.

You need to focus on whether the FO can turn things around this summer. If they muck it up again ok then come back and whine about it. For now though, it does no good.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

He has played 10 more games than Harris which is huge if Harris was on the Mavs this season. You could easily say that if Kidd missed 10 extra games this season that we might not even be in the playoffs right now. Showing up to play holds huge value in my eyes.

Of course many on here won't admit to it being a bad trade because it does no good. OK the trade was bad, what now? Crying over it doesn't help anyone. Most franchises make bad trades. Why try to convince the world you are right just so that we can be hateful about it all the live-long day? My own mother will just ignore the subject because she knows that it doesn't do any good.

You need to focus on whether the FO can turn things around this summer. If they muck it up again ok then come back and whine about it. For now though, it does no good.

You are 100% right. I dunno, I just really loved Devin. It was great watching him get better and better each year. Think off how magical of a night it would have been to see Devin harris as an All-star on the Dallas Mavs. That would've been great. But anyway, I hear what you're saying. There is no point whining about the trade. I just hope we can get a good PG soon and develop him and not trade him away stupidly. And hopefully, the FO can fix the Mavs but I think they're morons. Any body who thinks Josh Howard for Gerald Wallace or John Salmons is "Lateral" has issues lol. And the Mavs turning down Kidd for Davis and Kaman annoyed the hell out of me as well.

Think of it like this, as much as I love Devin I would have traded him for Davis and Kaman in a heartbeat. Nelson and Cuban are morons, Im definetely not getting my hopes up for this off-season.

[Re-Dirk-ulous]

Originally Posted by TheMaverick

When we were getting easy baskets or points, it was mainly because of Josh Howard. The continuing fall of the Dallas Mavericks can easily be paralleled with the fall of Josh Howard. The Kidd/Harris thing isn't the focal topic we shouldn't be discussing.

For argument's sake, the Kidd/Harris thing can easily be paralleled with the fall of Josh Howard

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

But even though, what I have said is true I expect: You and others still trying to say this trade isn't a franchise killer even though all the stats and games after the trade clearly show it.

Once again: post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

So who's losing credibility here?

You.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Longsuffering, we get it. The trade was bad. Why be an ass about it though? Trashing Kidd gets Mavs fans nowhere. Would I rather have Harris right now? Um yeah, probably. It's not going to happen though so grow up and move on.

I'm a Mavs fan before a Harris fan. Real fans of their teams don't choose single players over the franchise. If Dirk gets traded in the next 2-3 years, then I'm just going to have to get over it eventually. Will it suck? Yeah. Why keep doggin the Harris trade though? Let it go...

Harris is still very injury-prone which is my opinion as to why he was traded. You really can't fault the franchise for trading away injury-prone players. Howard should be next based on injuries this season alone...

We often disagree, but this is a great post IMO.

[Flacolaco]

Real fans of their teams don't choose single players over the franchise

Could someone email this to the dead internet corpse of basketballgirl25? (Or whatever the F the wh$re's name was)

[fluid.forty.one]

longsufferingmavsfan

stop being childish

thank you

[AxdemxO]

W/E the opinion about the Mavs is or the Kidd/ Harris trade, there is one thing I KNOW

The Mavs are going to the playoffs in a conference thats 9 deep and filled with good teams and Kidd missed 1 game this season. Umm THE NETS are not going to the playoffs in a conference that Sucks outsied of 3 maybe 4 teams and Harris has missed a bunch of games AGAIN.

So w/e I am rolling with Kidd and these Mavs, however far we get and I know its gonna be further than the Nets.


GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MAAAAAAAVVVVVSSS

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

W/E the opinion about the Mavs is or the Kidd/ Harris trade, there is one thing I KNOW

The Mavs are going to the playoffs in a conference thats 9 deep and filled with good teams and Kidd missed 1 game this season. Umm THE NETS are not going to the playoffs in a conference that Sucks outsied of 3 maybe 4 teams and Harris has missed a bunch of games AGAIN.

So w/e I am rolling with Kidd and these Mavs, however far we get and I know its gonna be further than the Nets.


GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MAAAAAAAVVVVVSSS

Let me ask you this. Do you think the Nets would be in the playoffs if they had kept Kidd? I don't.

Oh well, whatever. Regarding the original topic, Kidd is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Just terrible.

[ghazi]

I'll repeat some points I've probably made before.

In retrospect yes the Kidd trade was bad. We gave up youth and assets and didn't make an improvement on the court. But it's foolish to believe that if you swap Kidd with harris the Mavs are suddenly elite or anything.

Kidd is having a better year than Harris did in 06-07. What's changed since then is the Mavs are no longer lethal from behind the arc, no longer a good defensive team, no longer dominant on the glass, and individually Stack/Howard/Terry/Dirk have had declines in their games. Not SHARP declines (except for Stack), but subtle declines. Subtle declines along with regression in defensive and rebounding and 3-PT shooting, along with the West getting better is all it takes to go from a 67 win #1 seed to a 50 win #8 seed.

Furthermore the 67 wins is a fools gold record. the Mavs had a 20-4 record in games decided by 5 points or less which inflated how good the team really was. Some attribute winning cloes games to clutchness, I attribute it to luck that could go either way with a bounce of the ball or a made shot or missed shot or two.

And then I'll bring up last year. I know the Mavs were 16-13 after the Kidd trade, but it was simply bad luck IMO. Dirk missed 5 games and the Mavs went 2-8 in games decided in final minute (bad luck) and J-Ho regressed sharply. Again, how is that Kidd's fault?

I don't think Devin here instead of Kidd would patch all of that. We complain about a lack of scorers, as if that would matter when we play defense like we have been this year? Phoenix has a lot of scorers and look how they're doing, cause they don't play D. Isn't the saying D wins championships? . Would Harris here instead of Kidd vault us into the class of the Spurs/Celtics/Cavs as far as D? I'd say no.

A lot of "What ifs" but I don't lose much sleep over the Kidd trade because I don't have sugarplum visions of the Mavs being led to titles by Devin freakin Harris. I lose more sleep over Stern stealing our beloved '06 title and the Warriors hitting lucky half court shots dooming us.

To reiterate, it was a bad trade IMO, but Kidd is not the reason the Mavs have declined over the past 2 years. the "#1 in West when Harris got injured" stat is arbitrary since this was before the Gasol trade (and while Bynum was injured) and at a time when the top 3-4 teams in West were playing hot potato with the #1 spot.

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Let me ask you this. Do you think the Nets would be in the playoffs if they had kept Kidd? I don't.

Oh well, whatever. Regarding the original topic, Kidd is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Just terrible.

Actually I think he would be a great fit for them there. He would be the distributor. Carter would be the 1st and second option. Guys like Lopez, Yi, and some of the other guys would thrive with Kidd getting them the ball. I actually do think they would be fighting for the 7th or 8th spot with Kidd there.

But my point is it happened and its over. We wont know what could have been and I hate when people bring this up like Harris was our savior. BS Giving up Harris was not the mistake, giving up the picks was. So you can either GO with what we have , or you can keep looking to the past...where you wont find anything because the past doesn't exist.

GO MAVS

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Actually I think he would be a great fit for them there. He would be the distributor. Carter would be the 1st and second option. Guys like Lopez, Yi, and some of the other guys would thrive with Kidd getting them the ball. I actually do think they would be fighting for the 7th or 8th spot with Kidd there.

But my point is it happened and its over. We wont know what could have been and I hate when people bring this up like Harris was our savior. BS Giving up Harris was not the mistake, giving up the picks was. So you can either GO with what we have , or you can keep looking to the past...where you wont find anything because the past doesn't exist.

GO MAVS

Give me a break. Nobody is saying the kid was a "savior." He was young and Kidd is old. It was dumb. End of story.

Go with what we have? Yeah, I'm all for that, but the problem is we don't have much.