10-4: *insert facepalm* - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

SeriousSummer · 11-25-2009, 12:48 AM

This is a case of the Mavs only having enough energy to hang around, not take a commanding lead, and hoping to win at the end of the game. It's worked pretty often--they've done the same thing every one of the last five games, but letting teams stay that close will get you sooner or later.

Dirk can't go all out for 40 every night, especially with double teams, and with Golden State pushing the pace, somebody has to score. Terry finally helped in the second half, but that was about it.

I don't think Carlisle could have played Thomas or Singleton or Humphreys and done any better--I doubt Thomas even understands the zone yet, none of them could have stayed with the GS small forward.

No wings and not enough talent to beat GS at its own game were there tonight.

The only thing I think Carlisle could have done was let Dirk start the 4th Q and hope to put GS away before he got too exhausted. But, unless you think Carroll could have helped, he didn't have many choice.

peppersquad · 11-25-2009, 12:51 AM

The biggest possesion of the game GSW runs a double at Dirk and JJ jacks up a 3 in the corner. Game over. He's awful.

Jason terryable doesn't get a free pass either.

chumdawg · 11-25-2009, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peppersquad

The biggest possesion of the game GSW runs a double at Dirk and JJ jacks up a 3 in the corner. Game over. He's awful.

Do you mean to imply that if it goes he is wonderful?

peppersquad · 11-25-2009, 12:57 AM

Absolutly not. He also failed to switch on the curry floater that double ended the game.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-25-2009, 12:57 AM

The Mavs achilles heel so far is the inability to stop quick guards.

sike · 11-25-2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The Mavs achilles heel so far is the inability to stop quick guards.

"so far"? You mean like, for at least 10 years, right?

CadBane · 11-25-2009, 01:06 AM

If you don't think playing JJB the whole 4th lost the game, you probably also think his defense isn't awful. And I'm sure you don't care he's shooting 37% from the field for the season. I don't know what else to say. The tape proves it, the stats prove it. JJB shouldn't be playing crunch minutes period. If you can't see that, there's no convincing you, regardless of the facts.

mac222b · 11-25-2009, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

"so far"? You mean like, for at least 10 years, right?

haha. nice

Dirkadirkastan · 11-25-2009, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Do you mean to imply that if it goes he is wonderful?

No Chum, that is a fallacy.

peppersquad · 11-25-2009, 01:13 AM

Seriously. This loss is just embarrasing. Still pissed. Remember this one when we start out in Denver in the 2nd rd.

chumdawg · 11-25-2009, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

No Chum, that is a fallacy.

Very nice effort, but look closer. You just proved the point. His was the fallacy.

Dirkadirkastan · 11-25-2009, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Very nice effort, but look closer. You just proved the point. His was the fallacy.

Huh?

He asserted two things: JJ missed and JJ is awful. The first is fact, the second is opinion.

You made two jumps.

First, you assumed his opinion was based off that single fact. Then you asked if a false antecedent implies a false consequent, to which I replied no, because that would be a fallacy.

And of course, you made a third jump just now saying I proved he made a fallacy. That's just out of left field.

chumdawg · 11-25-2009, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Huh?

He asserted two things: JJ missed and JJ is awful. The first is fact, the second is opinion.

You made two jumps.

First, you assumed his opinion was based off that single fact. Then you asked if a false antecedent implies a false consequent, to which I replied no, because that would be a fallacy.

And of course, you made a third jump just now saying I proved he made a fallacy. That's just out of left field.

He said (presumably, and which I asked him to clarify):

If he makes the shot, he is a wonderful player.
He missed the shot.
Therefore, he is an awful player.

It is no more complicated than that.

Dirkadirkastan · 11-25-2009, 01:36 AM

He never said the first line. He said:

He missed the shot. He is awful.

chumdawg · 11-25-2009, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

He never said the first line. He said:

He missed the shot. He is awful.

Ummmm...that's exactly right?

What part are you missing?

chumdawg · 11-25-2009, 01:41 AM

If it helps you, by the way, imagine Dirk missing a triple-covered three-point shot as the clock runs out, and some schmuck claiming:

"He missed the shot. He is awful."

Underdog · 11-25-2009, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If it helps you, by the way, imagine Dirk missing a triple-covered three-point shot as the clock runs out, and some schmuck claiming:

"He missed the shot. He is awful."

Charles Barkley?

Underdog · 11-25-2009, 01:43 AM

After reading this thread, I'm kind of glad I missed the game...

Tokey41 · 11-25-2009, 01:46 AM

Really? We expect Barea to be there in crunch time instead of any one of Dirk, Marion, Howard, Jet, or Kidd?

I don't really know what JJB's role on this team is anymore. He's an atrocious defender and his off balance shots annoy the hell out of me. I understand Carlisle not wanting to rush him, but I can't wait until he thinks Roddy is ready for more pt.

chumdawg · 11-25-2009, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Charles Barkley?

True. Except he might have pronounced it "turr-bull."

He'd have been guilty of the same logically fallacy that Dirkastan correctly pointed out.

And he has, and probably will be again.

Dirkadirkastan · 11-25-2009, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Ummmm...that's exactly right?

What part are you missing?

None of your implications from what he stated are valid. I even explained why they are invalid.

So I win. The end.

chumdawg · 11-25-2009, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

After reading this thread, I'm kind of glad I missed the game...

I wish I'd have missed it. I stopped down for this one, and like you, wished I hadn't afterward.

The takeaway, though, which wasn't discussed in the thread, is that we had a nice lead midway through the fourth and just couldn't hold it. We gave up some scores, yes, but we became anemic on offense, which did us in.

chumdawg · 11-25-2009, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

None of your implications from what he stated are valid. I even explained why they are invalid.

So I win. The end.

Dude...I tried to enlighten you (and him). But if you want to be stubborn about it, he said:

If he makes the shot, he is not awful.
He missed the shot.
Therefore, he is awful.

Dirkadirkastan · 11-25-2009, 02:02 AM

Is that how desperate you are to continue this discussion? With blatant lies?

chumdawg · 11-25-2009, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Is that how desperate you are to continue this discussion? With blatant lies?

Is that what he said or is that not what he said? Because if you think what he said was "If he misses the shot he is awful, and he missed, so he is awful," then we have moved far beyond the realm of logic, which is what you started with.

Dirkadirkastan · 11-25-2009, 02:11 AM

Here's the quote, dummy:

Quote:

Originally Posted by peppersquad

The biggest possesion of the game GSW runs a double at Dirk and JJ jacks up a 3 in the corner. Game over. He's awful.

Looks to me that the last sentence was not a logical conclusion of the first, but rather the first is presented as an example of the last.

Your goofy analysis is where everything gets screwed up.

chumdawg · 11-25-2009, 02:21 AM

You're just not getting it, man.

If the shot goes, it was the greatest thing the player could do (you won't assume that he tacitly says this...but, it was "the biggest possesion of the game," he says...clutch time).

If the shot doesn't go, the player is awful, the guy says.

It's an age-old issue in all of sports. It is most certainly not new tonight, or this season, or this century. Great players do miss shots like that, or miss plays like that. Happens all the time.

You came out with the logical proof of that right away. Your sense was right. Why you suddenly see it the other way I do not understand.

tcat075 · 11-25-2009, 02:24 AM

too much logic at 1:22 AM in the morning! Come on guys...

So...we really blew this game. Didn't watch it...what the hell happened that we couldn't beat them? I saw some of the highlights and letting Curry and Ellis drive in for uncontested lay-ups isn't exactly the way to win a game. But why didn't we blow these midgets out of the game so early it didn't matter? Seems like it should have been rather easy...except it obviously wasn't.

Dirkadirkastan · 11-25-2009, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If the shot doesn't go, the player is awful, the guy says.

HE DID NOT SAY THAT. He said the two in conjunction, but not one as an implication of the other.

chumdawg · 11-25-2009, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

HE DID NOT SAY THAT. He said the two in conjunction, but not one as an implication of the other.

I got the strong sense it was an implication.

As did you, I'm sure, since you spotted the logical fallacy.

chumdawg · 11-25-2009, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

too much logic at 1:22 AM in the morning! Come on guys...

So...we really blew this game. Didn't watch it...what the hell happened that we couldn't beat them? I saw some of the highlights and letting Curry and Ellis drive in for uncontested lay-ups isn't exactly the way to win a game. But why didn't we blow these midgets out of the game so early it didn't matter? Seems like it should have been rather easy...except it obviously wasn't.

I suspect that with Damp we win going away.

mavsfan1000 · 11-25-2009, 03:19 AM

It will be nice to have Dampier, Marion, Howard, and Ross back. But I guess Rick C. really wants to make sure they are 100% before coming back.

Lor20 · 11-25-2009, 07:25 AM

i have no problem losing a game here and there ... its going to happen -but...
we got outrebounded by a team with 1 player over 6'7. thats a mixture of lacking effort and playing small.
if we play like this were going to lose to houston, cleveland and maybe even indiana....

horse900703 · 11-25-2009, 08:59 AM

stupid game, stupid loss.

Five-ofan · 11-25-2009, 09:02 AM

im all for not playing midgetball and limiting JJ minutes, but seriously with marion, howard, and ross out along with thomas working himself back into shape, we are about out of options on the wings.... Im not defending JJB(id rather see roddy too) but this was just one of those games. You lose sometimes, it happens. We are missing 3 starters. Weve done an amazing job of dealing with it, so to turn on rc so quickly after this is a bit foolish imo.

xrobx · 11-25-2009, 09:04 AM

well just to put things in perspective, this is the first time since 1951 years a team has won a game using only 6 players. we're now the laughing stock of the nba again. =(. yet another record the warriors set against us.

GermanDunk · 11-25-2009, 09:05 AM

Has it been so terrible ?

Loosing after a winning streak is not uncommon.

Thomas86 · 11-25-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrobx

well just to put things in perspective, this is the first time since 1951 years a team has won a game using only 6 players. we're now the laughing stock of the nba again. =(. yet another record the warriors set against us.

Would you rather lose to Golden State with 6 players or lose to the Nets with the Nets getting that first win?.......

dude1394 · 11-25-2009, 09:59 AM

This looked so much like the washinton game. A game where their guards smoked us. The mavs looked completely dis-interested out there. They were not sharp, loose with the ball and didn't rotate worth a crap to help.

Piss-poor effort last night.

dude1394 · 11-25-2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

im all for not playing midgetball and limiting JJ minutes, but seriously with marion, howard, and ross out along with thomas working himself back into shape, we are about out of options on the wings.... Im not defending JJB(id rather see roddy too) but this was just one of those games. You lose sometimes, it happens. We are missing 3 starters. Weve done an amazing job of dealing with it, so to turn on rc so quickly after this is a bit foolish imo.

Did QRoss get hurt? I couldn't find him on the bench last night and I really thought he'd be in there while we were getting toasted.

Edit: Nevermind...I see that he had a back thing flare up.