2011 Western Conference Finals Poll: Mavs vs. Thunder - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

alexamenos · 05-16-2011, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Average age for the remaining four teams in the playoffs: Chicago - 28.5, Miami - 30.3, Oklahoma City - 24.3 and Dallas - 29.5

Take a look at the rosters of eventual NBA champions and you'll see no shortage of seasoned vets and 30-somethings.

'09, '10 LA -- Kobe, Odom, Fisher, Ron-Ron all over 30 with Gasol 29-ish
'08 Boston -- KG, Pierce and Allen 30+
'07 Spurs -- Duncan and a host of others
'06 Satan's Gay Minions -- Shaq, 'zo, Jason Williams, Posey, Gary Payton
'05 Spurs -- significant contributors over 30 (Bowen, Barry and Horry), Manu and Timmy in their late 20's;
'04 Pistons -- one of the younger teams to win a championship in recent history, average age about 28;
'03 Spurs -- Youngest team, about 27 (and we all remember what the very ancient Steve Kerr did in decisive game of the WCF);
Shaq and Kobe Lakers -- lot's of guys 27+

My point is that having a really, really young team is great for day-dreaming about the future, but veterans win championships. Even the '03 Spurs, who were a relatively young team, had been battle hardened by years of series against the Lakers.

Contrast football.....very young teams frequently win NFL championships (our beloved '92-93 Cowboys, the most recent Packers team).....veterans in the NFL are often beaten half to death from years in the trenchs, and the physical nature of the game allows the youngsters to physically dominate. But basketball is different....

....veterans win championships.

This is one of the things that makes this matchup so interesting -- OKC is the more talented team, but Dallas has a million years of high intensity playoff experience.

kg_veteran · 05-16-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

OKC is the more talented team

They are?

#41 · 05-16-2011, 12:16 PM

Harden and Durant's threes are gonna win them one game. Mavs in five.

alexamenos · 05-16-2011, 12:16 PM

I think so -- two All-NBA players v. one is a pretty good head start.

If Kidd, Marion and Peja were in their prime I'd think otherwise.

LonghornDub · 05-16-2011, 12:17 PM

Yeah, I don't agree that they're more talented. Agree with alexa's general point though.

alexamenos · 05-16-2011, 12:18 PM

ok, maybe I should have said that they'll have two of the most talented three players on the court and left it at that.

#41 · 05-16-2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

ok, maybe I should have said that they'll have two of the most talented three players on the court and left it at that.

Yes, even SoB would be more talented than the Mavs by those standards...

Underdog · 05-16-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

ok, maybe I should have said that they'll have two of the most talented three players on the court and left it at that.

OKC has 2 of the most talented 3 players on the court, but only 3 of the most talented 8 players on the court (and we have #1...)

Blackspider · 05-16-2011, 12:26 PM

I picked Mavs in 6 but can see it being 5 if we take the first 2 games at home like I think we can. They just got through a tough 7 game series and won game 7 at home and their fans and team are on an emotional high. Crush their spirits by taking game 1. We have not played in over a week so I'm betting rust will be a factor early on but if we can weather their storm early, we will be ok. If we take the first 2 at home, I think the series is done.

alexamenos · 05-16-2011, 12:28 PM

ok, f#*& I was wrong.

I'm trying not to get my freaking hopes up too much so I have to find reasons why Mavericks may lose.

Mavericks are the more talented team, they're deeper and they have a ton more experience plus home court advantage, they should win this thing rather easily, in 5 which is my original pick.

There's no reason they should lose this series and I'm going to be really really pissed if they don't.

Thank you f***ers for not allowing me to have some tiny defense mechanism.

LonghornDub · 05-16-2011, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Thank you f***ers for not allowing me to have some tiny defense mechanism.

Good line. Love it.

wilmtalk · 05-16-2011, 12:44 PM

LAKERS IN 9

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-16-2011, 12:56 PM

Mavs still have the better bench, especially if you can squeeze a few good minutes out of Brewer. Harden is good, but Peja can still match his production.

Harden=Peja
Barea>Manor...and Manor is not a good defense player.
Haywood>Mohammed
Terry>Harden or Cook
Nick Collison>Cardinal but not Marion. This is really the only potential X factor bench wise imo.

41creepingdeath · 05-16-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

ok, maybe I should have said that they'll have two of the most talented three players on the court and left it at that.

The Lakers did, too. And we still came out victoriously...

Budapest Maverick · 05-16-2011, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavsfan4ever

I thought I would go back and look at the bench scores for both teams from all three games this season. This is what I found.

November 24th Dallas @ OKC
Dallas 31 OKC 24

December 27th Dallas @ OKC
Dallas 40 OKC 32

January 6th OKC @ Dallas
OKC 31 Dallas 23

As you can tell there is not much of a point differential between the two benches in the regular season. Also take into account that JET started the January 6th game instead of coming off the bench.

This still suggests me that our bench is better, if Jet comes off the bench in that game, we likely would have win all three bench battle. Still, OKC bench is no joke. They have one of the best bench role player in Collison, one of the best bench scorers in Harden, a solid young back up who can do some damage from range, and a solid backup center in Mohamed. Still, our bench is better, at least from an offensive standpoint.

LonghornDub · 05-16-2011, 01:05 PM

I envision this playing out a lot like the '06 WCF. Not in terms of how the plays look on the court, but just the overall feel. Even if/when the Thunder get some big leads, the Mavs will slowly chip away with their superior defense and more consistently efficient offense.

alexamenos · 05-16-2011, 01:08 PM

I was thinking something like a flip of the '04 series v. the Kings. We'll get blown out once and win four close games.

DirkFTW · 05-16-2011, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

I was thinking something like a flip of the '04 series v. the Kings. We'll get blown out once and win four close games.

That series still pisses me off

kg_veteran · 05-16-2011, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

ok, f#*& I was wrong.

I'm trying not to get my freaking hopes up too much so I have to find reasons why Mavericks may lose.

Mavericks are the more talented team, they're deeper and they have a ton more experience plus home court advantage, they should win this thing rather easily, in 5 which is my original pick.

There's no reason they should lose this series and I'm going to be really really pissed if they don't.

Thank you f***ers for not allowing me to have some tiny defense mechanism.

Now you're coming around, bro. We are all in, and we're all in together.

The Thunder are going down. Hard.

j0Shi · 05-16-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Harden=Peja
Barea>Manor...and Manor is not a good defense player.

I am sorry but no. Peja may match Hardens productivity but Harden is a much more versatile player. They are simply not comparable. And Maynor is clearly the better backup PG as well.

kg_veteran · 05-16-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

And Maynor is clearly the better backup PG as well.

Clearly? I'd debate that.

Underdog · 05-16-2011, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Clearly? I'd debate that.

Andrew Bynum and Ron Artest might debate that as well...

DirkFTW · 05-16-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Andrew Bynum and Ron Artest might debate that as well...

I'm not sure I want to revisit their "rebuttals."

Kirobaito · 05-16-2011, 01:26 PM

Eric Maynor: 4.2 pts, 2.9 asts, .405 fg, .385 3p, .729 ft
Postseason: 5.2 pts, 2.5 asts, .375 fg, .400 3p, .750 ft

JJ Barea: 9.5 pts, 3.9 asts, .439 fg, .349 3p, .847 ft
Postseason: 7.7 pts, 3.7 asts, .408 fg, .211 3p, .789 ft

Neither player is that good, but JJ is pretty clearly better.

kg_veteran · 05-16-2011, 01:33 PM

Other than the SF position, I don't see a position (starter or bench) where the Thunder are clearly better. And before anyone starts screaming about Westbrook, realize that Kidd has a higher playoff WP48 than Westbrook does.

j0Shi · 05-16-2011, 01:42 PM

Barea is more of a scoring threat but when searching a true PG in terms of running your team I would clearly take Maynor.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-16-2011, 01:45 PM

I think Maynor will be better in the future, but he still hasn't proven it yet. Barea is pretty tried and tested with a good amount of playoff experience. Harden is more verstile than Peja, but I'm still not convinced he'll have more of an impact on the game.

kg_veteran · 05-16-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Barea is more of a scoring threat but when searching a true PG in terms of running your team I would clearly take Maynor.

That's a position that's a bit more defensible. You would clearly take Maynor. Okay, fine. Just don't say he's better than Barea.

mavs777 · 05-16-2011, 02:13 PM

I agree with Joshi Maynor runs the offense very good in fact I think OKC's best lineup might be: Maynor, Westbrook, Durant, Ibaka, Perkins
but I doubt they use that often if at all

It is still a favorable matchup for JJB because of Maynors lack of height/strength

Mavericks Rockets Fan · 05-16-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Other than the SF position, I don't see a position (starter or bench) where the Thunder are clearly better. And before anyone starts screaming about Westbrook, realize that Kidd has a higher playoff WP48 than Westbrook does.

Huh? Westbrook is CLEARLY better than Kidd. This shouldn't even be a debate.

kg_veteran · 05-16-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavericks Rockets Fan

Huh? Westbrook is CLEARLY better than Kidd. This shouldn't even be a debate.

According to what metric?

Kidd Karma · 05-16-2011, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavericks Rockets Fan

Huh? Westbrook is CLEARLY better than Kidd. This shouldn't even be a debate.

That's why we should tell Westbrook to jack everything he gets open. Stern wants to sell one player from each team, Dirk with Dallas, Sa with Duncan. We should get in his ear about this. He has a chance to be Westbrook from OKC if he would shoot more, take the shot when the game is on the line. He's better than Durant. More money in his pockets. Look at what happened in Minny the big man dumped the PG, get it now while everyone's watching.

fluid.forty.one · 05-16-2011, 03:19 PM

While I think we win the series either way, I REALLY want game 1. It would suck to wait 9 or so days for a loss.

Blackspider · 05-16-2011, 03:24 PM

I think Westbrook is definitely more athletic and can score better than Kidd but Kidd is definitely smarter and i'd rather have him run the offense in the clutch. Westbrook is going to give us some easy points this series just by his selfish ways he can get and how many dumb shots he jacks up without even looking to run the offense.

As someone mentioned earlier, I see this as being a 06 WCF revisitation in terms of Phx was more athletic than we were but their offense bogged down at times due to their style they played and our defense was much better than theirs, meaning no matter what lead they have, we can chip away at it.

Game 3 were down 12 in the 1st half. Game 5 we were down 8 in the 3rd. Game 6 we were down 18. Came back and won every one of those pretty handily. We already seen OKC last round give up big leads pretty quick to Memphis. I see the same thing here.

BGMaverick9 · 05-16-2011, 03:26 PM

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thunderfan · 05-16-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackspider

I think Westbrook is definitely more athletic and can score better than Kidd but Kidd is definitely smarter and i'd rather have him run the offense in the clutch. Westbrook is going to give us some easy points this series just by his selfish ways he can get and how many dumb shots he jacks up without even looking to run the offense.

As someone mentioned earlier, I see this as being a 06 WCF revisitation in terms of Phx was more athletic than we were but their offense bogged down at times due to their style they played and our defense was much better than theirs, meaning no matter what lead they have, we can chip away at it.

Game 3 were down 12 in the 1st half. Game 5 we were down 8 in the 3rd. Game 6 we were down 18. Came back and won every one of those pretty handily. We already seen OKC last round give up big leads pretty quick to Memphis. I see the same thing here.

Pretty fair assessment.

MascisMan · 05-16-2011, 03:48 PM

Mavs in 6 because it will be 2-2 after 4

mary · 05-16-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I'm curious Mary.. Are you using the whole reverse psychology thing or is this your real opinion.. or, just don't want to get your hopes up.

I've made the same pick every series. No reason to ruin a good thing.

LonghornDub · 05-16-2011, 04:50 PM

Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm surprised at all the hand-wringing about Westbrook. I don't think he's that elite at all. He made second-team All NBA, but he's absolutely not the second-best PG in the league. He made the team because CP3 was injured for much of the year, and D-Will was the victim of two horrible teams and one franchise meltdown in Utah.

Mavsfan4ever · 05-16-2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm surprised at all the hand-wringing about Westbrook. I don't think he's that elite at all. He made second-team All NBA, but he's absolutely not the second-best PG in the league. He made the team because CP3 was injured for much of the year, and D-Will was the victim of two horrible teams and one franchise meltdown in Utah.

I agree with you completely Dub. While I do think Westbrook is a good player he has not begun to reach the level of elite player.