05-14-2009, 02:58 PM
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#1
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Platinum Member
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Location: hogwarts - school of witchcraft and wizardry
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I haven't read any articles or summaries yet but..
All this talk about good v evil and predestination v free will..
LOST is trying to tackle three of the greatest mysteries known to man..
1. Time Traveling
2. Free will v Predestination
3. Love - lol Sawliet...JacKate
But if this is a parallel with the Bible it is pretty stretched.
Jacob (good, Jesus, God) v Esau (evil)...
Jacob went to those who survived the Oceanic flight before the crash..and "preordained them to survive." Has them suffer through trials to see if they are worthy of the kingdom (the island). Then one of his followers Locke (Judas) betrays him and gets Ben to kill him through a loophole (Roman crucifixion).
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i bleed burnt orange. Hook 'Em Horns \m/
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05-14-2009, 03:08 PM
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#2
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeball
I haven't read any articles or summaries yet but..
All this talk about good v evil and predestination v free will..
LOST is trying to tackle three of the greatest mysteries known to man..
1. Time Traveling
2. Free will v Predestination
3. Love - lol Sawliet...JacKate
But if this is a parallel with the Bible it is pretty stretched.
Jacob (good, Jesus, God) v Esau (evil)...
Jacob went to those who survived the Oceanic flight before the crash..and "preordained them to survive." Has them suffer through trials to see if they are worthy of the kingdom (the island). Then one of his followers Locke (Judas) betrays him and gets Ben to kill him through a loophole (Roman crucifixion).
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But this episode certainly indicates that that isn't Locke who betrayed him. Locke died when Ben strangled him in the motel room. What we've seen of Locke this season is actually Esau, or evil God, or whoever that was sitting with Jacob on the beach at the beginning of the episode. A lot of people also speculate that this being is the Smoke Monster, who takes forms of people who died on the Island (Christian, Yemi, Alex). I think I agree with them.
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05-14-2009, 03:17 PM
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#3
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeball
I haven't read any articles or summaries yet but..
All this talk about good v evil and predestination v free will..
LOST is trying to tackle three of the greatest mysteries known to man..
1. Time Traveling
2. Free will v Predestination
3. Love - lol Sawliet...JacKate
But if this is a parallel with the Bible it is pretty stretched.
Jacob (good, Jesus, God) v Esau (evil)...
Jacob went to those who survived the Oceanic flight before the crash..and "preordained them to survive." Has them suffer through trials to see if they are worthy of the kingdom (the island). Then one of his followers Locke (Judas) betrays him and gets Ben to kill him through a loophole (Roman crucifixion).
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While the symbolism is there...I really doubt the writers are going to go CS Lewis on the audience...it won't be something so clear cut as a Jesus vs. Satan battle royale. thats too easy.
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ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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05-14-2009, 03:05 PM
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#4
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,673
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so the ash around the cabin... i remember a previous episode where locke picked up some ash, but did we ever see anyone make a gap in it? the first time i saw it, i assumed it was to keep things OUT of the cabin. Maybe it was actually meant to keep someone IN? the Esau guy?
but Claire and Christian were hanging out there, too, in one episode. I of course now assume Christian has been Esau this whole time... but then that doesn't fit with the prison idea as we saw Christian in season 1.
BUT - christian has never actually touched anything or anyone that i can remember. So maybe christian has always been Esau's way of communicating while being trapped in the cabin. Only when the ash was broken could he actually escape and then touch things/people as locke.
I like arguing with myself.
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Last edited by Big Boy Laroux; 05-14-2009 at 03:06 PM.
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05-14-2009, 03:16 PM
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#5
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
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I don't like the idea of smokey being Esau or Jacob...just doesn't seem to fit.
How could Ben "Summon" a god? as he did when he sent smokey after Widmore's hired guns.
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ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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05-14-2009, 03:25 PM
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#6
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
I don't like the idea of smokey being Esau or Jacob...just doesn't seem to fit.
How could Ben "Summon" a god? as he did when he sent smokey after Widmore's hired guns.
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I think it's obvious that doppelganger Locke is the guy from the beginning.
Think about it, though. Doppelganger Locke plays dumb with Ben, and when Ben goes to "summon" the Smoke Monster, it magically doesn't appear, even though he did before. So.... they go to Smokey's Lair. Ben falls through the floor, and Locke says "lol see ya." Five minutes later Smoke Monster appears as Alex and tells Ben do WHATEVER Locke says. Then "Locke" tells him to kill Jacob. I think this is too much of a coincidence to ignore.
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05-14-2009, 03:28 PM
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#7
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The Preacha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirobaito
I think it's obvious that doppelganger Locke is the guy from the beginning.
Think about it, though. Doppelganger Locke plays dumb with Ben, and when Ben goes to "summon" the Smoke Monster, it magically doesn't appear, even though he did before. So.... they go to Smokey's Lair. Ben falls through the floor, and Locke says "lol see ya." Five minutes later Smoke Monster appears as Alex and tells Ben do WHATEVER Locke says. Then "Locke" tells him to kill Jacob. I think this is too much of a coincidence to ignore.
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it could be....I just think not.
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ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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05-14-2009, 03:19 PM
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#8
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Rooting for the laundry
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 21,342
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Wouldn't something easy be a nice change of pace?
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05-14-2009, 03:29 PM
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#9
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flacolaco
Wouldn't something easy be a nice change of pace?
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NO!
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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05-14-2009, 05:30 PM
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#10
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flacolaco
Wouldn't something easy be a nice change of pace?
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I think it's very possible that some of the "end-game" information we get next season might be surprisingly simple--even as simple as "good vs. evil." And that's not a knock on the show. In fact, it's a compliment, because that can be very effective storytelling. You complicate things and complicate things some more as part of building up tension, and then at the climax you present a fairly clean, simple answer (or answers). That sort of process tends to be a lot more effective than presenting the audience with an incredibly complex solution, even when the audience is fairly intelligent.
Of course, you don't want to make it too simple such that you leave open a lot of holes and questions unanswered, but I'm increasingly of the belief that such a thing isn't going to happen.
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John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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05-14-2009, 05:41 PM
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#11
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
I think it's very possible that some of the "end-game" information we get next season might be surprisingly simple--even as simple as "good vs. evil."
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if they stick with the Jacob vs Esau storyline, which it seems they must....I'd be interested to see if its not clear cut good v evil...but maybe they make us take a side on who we think is right. Its clear that Widmore no longer appears the most evil, and Ben no longer appears the most evil, etc...I wonder if Jacob vs Unknown "Locke body snatcher" will be muddied waters as well.
Which makes me wonder....was Widmore a pawn of the "Other god"?
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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05-14-2009, 06:02 PM
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#12
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
but maybe they make us take a side on who we think is right.
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Choose Your Own Adventure: LOST ?
I like it.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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05-14-2009, 06:09 PM
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#13
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
Choose Your Own Adventure: LOST ?
I like it.
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Could you imagine something similar to an American Idol format where the end of the episode comes with a choice the audience must make in the next two hours by dialing 866-PICK001 or 866-PICK002? I wonder if they could really pull off that kind of on-the-fly writing/production some day...
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Is this ghost ball??
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05-14-2009, 06:51 PM
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#14
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Rooting for the laundry
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 21,342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
I think it's very possible that some of the "end-game" information we get next season might be surprisingly simple--even as simple as "good vs. evil." And that's not a knock on the show. In fact, it's a compliment, because that can be very effective storytelling. You complicate things and complicate things some more as part of building up tension, and then at the climax you present a fairly clean, simple answer (or answers). That sort of process tends to be a lot more effective than presenting the audience with an incredibly complex solution, even when the audience is fairly intelligent.
Of course, you don't want to make it too simple such that you leave open a lot of holes and questions unanswered, but I'm increasingly of the belief that such a thing isn't going to happen.
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I read an interview they gave the other day, and they said that once viewers have the season 5 finale and season six premier, they'll be able to make a very good educated guess about the end game of the show. So maybe it will simplify a bit.
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05-14-2009, 03:31 PM
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#15
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,864
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no one really commented on my theory that there part of season 6 is going to be a rescue attempt to travel in time and save jack, kate, sawyer, hurley, jin, etc etc before the bomb explodes.
are we all in agreement- or do you guys have some other theories?
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05-14-2009, 03:37 PM
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#16
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Rooting for the laundry
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 21,342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XERXES
no one really commented on my theory that there part of season 6 is going to be a rescue attempt to travel in time and save jack, kate, sawyer, hurley, jin, etc etc before the bomb explodes.
are we all in agreement- or do you guys have some other theories?
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Who would carry that attempt out?
Sun is the only one left in the present* that would give a crap.
The present, btw, that we're not sure is still intact or not because of the bomb detonating.
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05-14-2009, 03:36 PM
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#17
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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I just don't think the explosion killed them...thats what I think for now. Just like I don't think Locke is really dead for good or Jacob for that matter.
I'm kinda hopeful that season 6 is not filled with too much time travel junk....I hope thats what this season was about. This show was great before it submersed itself in time traveling...I just don't it to bog on that too much in its final season.
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
Last edited by sike; 05-14-2009 at 03:42 PM.
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05-14-2009, 03:39 PM
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#18
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Rooting for the laundry
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 21,342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
I just don't think the explosion killed them...thats what I think for now. Just like I don't think Locke is really dead for good or Jacob for that matter.
I'm kinda hopeful that season 6 is not filled with too much time travel junk....I hope thats what this season was about. This show was great before it submersed itself in time traveling...I just don't it to bog on that too much in its final season.
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Cuse/Lindelof have said in interviews that the time traveling will not be a big player in season 6. (I hope there's a little bit though...everyone needs to get together again dammit)
They said, towards the end of last season, that Season 4 was how they left, Season 5 was going to be how they got back, and Season 6 was going to be about what happens when they get back. Whatever that means.
Last edited by sike; 05-14-2009 at 03:42 PM.
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05-14-2009, 03:42 PM
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#19
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flacolaco
Cuse/Lindelof have said in interviews that the time traveling will not be a big player in season 6. (I hope there's a little bit though...everyone needs to get together again dammit)
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good to know...
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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05-14-2009, 04:09 PM
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#20
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,673
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i'm also of the mindset that the statue is not anubis. However, remember this picture from the temple?
Maybe jacob is anubis (if that is anubis - it sure looks like anubis) and Esau is smokey? Doesn't look like they're fighting here, just hanging out or interacting.
how in the hell do you resize pictures on here?
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Last edited by Flacolaco; 05-14-2009 at 04:14 PM.
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05-14-2009, 04:12 PM
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#21
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux
i'm also of the mindset that the statue is NOT anubis. However, remember this picture from the temple?
Maybe jacob is anubis (if that is anubis - it sure looks like anubis) and Esau is smokey? Doesn't look like they're fighting here, just hanging out or interacting.
how in the hell do you resize pictures on here?
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that pic does seem to lead towards Esau/Smokey (or at the very least seems to be a pic of Anubis and Smokey though not necessarily Esau)...I still don't like that thought. Smokey just doesn't seem like a god. And he seems to have functioning parts (all those sounds)...I just don't want Esau to be Smokey.
At one point, Anubis was the most significant god of the dead....just saying.
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
Last edited by sike; 05-14-2009 at 04:14 PM.
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05-14-2009, 04:40 PM
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#22
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
I just don't think the explosion killed them...thats what I think for now. Just like I don't think Locke is really dead for good or Jacob for that matter.
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didnt richard tell sun that he "saw them all die?"
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05-14-2009, 04:50 PM
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#23
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The Preacha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XERXES
didnt richard tell sun that he "saw them all die?"
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Richard certainly wouldn't have "seen them die" at the swan, right? He wasn't there...he was getting his leader as far away as possible.
and yes, some time travel will HAVE to happen in season 6...I'm just hoping it wont be the dominating theme like this season.
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ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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05-14-2009, 04:25 PM
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#24
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,864
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I understand your points- but someway somehow- theyve still gotta do SOME time traveling just to all reunite...
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05-14-2009, 04:37 PM
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#25
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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The statue is not Anubis. It's either Taweret or Sobek.
Taweret:
Sobek
I lean toward Taweret, because Sobek usually is depicted with a real big hat thing (that picture notwithstanding), while Taweret has a little cap thing on the top of her head.
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Last edited by Kirobaito; 05-14-2009 at 04:38 PM.
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05-15-2009, 01:13 AM
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#26
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Golden Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirobaito
I lean toward Taweret, because Sobek usually is depicted with a real big hat thing (that picture notwithstanding), while Taweret has a little cap thing on the top of her head.
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What about the item the statue is holding? Based on the pictures you provided, it looks a lot more like Sobek. That item is called an ankh, which represents the ability to undo evil and cure ills.
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Last edited by mavspwnage; 05-15-2009 at 01:15 AM.
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05-15-2009, 01:16 AM
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#27
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavspwnage
What about the item the statue is holding? Based on the pictures you provided, it looks a lot more like Sobek. That item is called an ankh, which represents the ability to undo evil and cure ills.
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It's holding two ankhs, just like Taweret.
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05-15-2009, 01:29 AM
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#28
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Golden Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadBane
It's holding two ankhs, just like Taweret.
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Sobek holds ankhs as well. But just based on the pics Kirobaito provided, it looks a lot more like Sobek to me. But to each their own.
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05-14-2009, 04:42 PM
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#29
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,673
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kiro, i agree, and said i do NOT think the statue is anubis.
look earlier in this thread when the statue first appeared, and I was saying it was not anubis. I was saying it was the hippo fertility god (taweret). because of the hat, the double ankh (even posted pictures of statues of taweret that show this common representation), the shorter ears.
now there's nothing to say anubis couldn't live within a statue of taweret.
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Last edited by Big Boy Laroux; 05-14-2009 at 04:44 PM.
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05-14-2009, 04:52 PM
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#30
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux
kiro, i agree, and said i do NOT think the statue is anubis.
look earlier in this thread when the statue first appeared, and I was saying it was not anubis. I was saying it was the hippo fertility god (taweret). because of the hat, the double ankh (even posted pictures of statues of taweret that show this common representation), the shorter ears.
now there's nothing to say anubis couldn't live within a statue of taweret.
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in reference to this...the EW.com blog is officially reporting that the statue is Taweret....that is probably bc they where given that name to report by the producers or writers.
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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05-14-2009, 05:18 PM
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#31
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,241
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what if the bomb didn't go off? all we saw was a white flash right? I don't remember but was there an explosion sound or anything. What if the bomb was not detonated and it was just merely a tease
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05-14-2009, 05:24 PM
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#32
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alby
what if the bomb didn't go off? all we saw was a white flash right? I don't remember but was there an explosion sound or anything. What if the bomb was not detonated and it was just merely a tease
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could be.
But I think that the most likely scenario is that which Miles suggested...instead of changing anything, Jack made everything happen the way it was...
Oh silly Jack...when will you learn?
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ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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05-15-2009, 01:53 AM
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#33
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Sobek only holds one though.
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05-15-2009, 09:13 AM
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#35
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The Preacha
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but what about the saggy boobies? (U2 really wants to know)
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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05-15-2009, 12:00 PM
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#36
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Rooting for the laundry
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 21,342
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I wish we had been given some kind of indication about whether or not Eloise or Widmore ever saw Jacob. Richard sort of answered the question about who was the leader in 1977. It was clearly Eloise. But Widmore was clearly in charge in 1986 when Ben took Alex.
I was thinking about Brams warning to Miles that he was "playing for the wrong team".
I think someone already said this...but I think we need to start considering that Widmore is playing for the Fake Locke (Flocke)/Body Snatch Anti-Jacob guy...which might put Ben and Widmore on the same team next year I guess?
Then again, if the "humans" are aware of the demi-gods little game of "people suck" vs "no they don't"...wouldn't that ruin it?
Bleah.
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05-15-2009, 12:04 PM
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#37
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flacolaco
I wish we had been given some kind of indication about whether or not Eloise or Widmore ever saw Jacob. Richard sort of answered the question about who was the leader in 1977. It was clearly Eloise. But Widmore was clearly in charge in 1986 when Ben took Alex.
I was thinking about Brams warning to Miles that he was "playing for the wrong team".
I think someone already said this...but I think we need to start considering that Widmore is playing for the Fake Locke (Flocke)/Body Snatch Anti-Jacob guy...which might put Ben and Widmore on the same team next year I guess?
Then again, if the "humans" are aware of the demi-gods little game of "people suck" vs "no they don't"...wouldn't that ruin it?
Bleah.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Ben switched sides, though, once he learns who Locke really is (which I assume he will when they leave the Statue).
I have a nagging suspicion that maybe Eloise, upon waking up, pulls the Frozen Donkey Wheel, which sends the Losties back to 2007. The white flash we saw was that time flash. I have no idea WHY it would necessarily do so, or why she would want to do so all of a sudden. I was just thinking that Eloise has to leave the island some way. When she leaves, that forces Charles to then leave the Island in order to visit her. So he gets kicked off, too, eventually.
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05-15-2009, 12:13 PM
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#38
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The Preacha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flacolaco
I think someone already said this...but I think we need to start considering that Widmore is playing for the Fake Locke (Flocke)/Body Snatch Anti-Jacob guy...
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yeah, someone really sexy and successful...who is loved by all the ladies.
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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05-15-2009, 12:15 PM
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#39
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flacolaco
Then again, if the "humans" are aware of the demi-gods little game of "people suck" vs "no they don't"...wouldn't that ruin it?
Bleah.
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Jacob's last words, "They're coming" seemed to put a little fear into Easu...that "task force" of Jacob's isn't going to be easy to dissuade.
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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05-15-2009, 12:07 PM
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#40
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Rooting for the laundry
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 21,342
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When she wakes up, huh?
Does the temple protect from NUCLEAR BOMBS?
On this show, everything is possible, but I'm just saying.
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