2017 NBA Draft

[Melonhead]

Absolutely would not hold a video against the lakers pg if we could come out looking good in the deal. Dude was 19, you wouldnt believe how much kids record now. And so what, dude shouldnt have been cheating on his fiancee. Things happen. Im not going to hold that over a teenagers head the rest of the life.

[EricaLubarsky]

30 days

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Absolutely would not hold a video against the lakers pg if we could come out looking good in the deal. Dude was 19, you wouldnt believe how much kids record now. And so what, dude shouldnt have been cheating on his fiancee. Things happen. Im not going to hold that over a teenagers head the rest of the life.

If you can look good in the deal sure but I really doubt u can get Russell without the draft pick this year. And all I'm saying is I'm 100% against that.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

If you can look good in the deal sure but I really doubt u can get Russell without the draft pick this year. And all I'm saying is I'm 100% against that.

You're telling me there is NO combination of 1-8 that would have you trading that pick for D'Angelo? You will have to name 9 players you take over him. I honestly can't.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by tap2390

You're telling me there is NO combination of 1-8 that would have you trading that pick for D'Angelo? You will have to name 9 players you take over him. I honestly can't.

It's simple risk reward to me. When you have whiffed on trades/picks like the mavs and given up the assets we have then you absolutely can't trade a top 10 pick unless you are positive that at MINIMUM he's your starting pg for the next 5 years.

In a typical draft I wouldn't hate trading for him I guess. I honestly don't like his play-style though, he doesn't drive a lot. He is below 4 drives per game but plays almost 30mins. He was in a tie with Wesley Matthews in drives per game, to give ppl an idea just how bad that is, and far below JJ(only 22min per game also) and Yogi. Hell he was below Harry B and Julius Randle in drives and 4th on his own team.... as a 30min per game pg. I'd like to blame the Lakers being bad but he just hasn't shown me anything close enough to be worthy of a top pick. Everyone keeps saying we need to nail this pick, idk what he has shown to be worth a top pick. And if you go by PER he has a hair over a 15, which is league average. So in 2 years he has had a locker room incident. doesn't drive the ball to the rim, and statistically is an average NBA player. I'll pass personally.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

It's simple risk reward to me. When you have whiffed on trades/picks like the mavs and given up the assets we have then you absolutely can't trade a top 10 pick unless you are positive that at MINIMUM he's your starting pg for the next 5 years.

In a typical draft I wouldn't hate trading for him I guess. I honestly don't like his play-style though, he doesn't drive a lot. He is below 4 drives per game but plays almost 30mins. He was in a tie with Wesley Matthews in drives per game, to give ppl an idea just how bad that is, and far below JJ(only 22min per game also) and Yogi. Hell he was below Harry B and Julius Randle in drives and 4th on his own team.... as a 30min per game pg. I'd like to blame the Lakers being bad but he just hasn't shown me anything close enough to be worthy of a top pick. Everyone keeps saying we need to nail this pick, idk what he has shown to be worth a top pick. And if you go by PER he has a hair over a 15, which is league average. So in 2 years he has had a locker room incident. doesn't drive the ball to the rim, and statistically is an average NBA player. I'll pass personally.

Solid points -- had no idea he was that poor driving the ball. I can see an argument for taking the upside of whoever we draft at 9 over that, and I guess there must be a reason the Lakers are actively shopping him (besides that they will have either Lonzo or Markelle in a month).

[EricaLubarsky]

29 days

[EricaLubarsky]

D'Angelo Russell's twitter account just liked a tweet that said,

"no way in hell they should draft Lonzo. They stupid if they do"

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

D'Angelo Russell's twitter account just liked a tweet that said,

"no way in hell they should draft Lonzo. They stupid if they do"

I want Lakers to pass on Lonzo just so we can watch the egg drop on his dad's head. I do think Lonzo is overhyped (will be a lot of fun to watch in transition, passing) so Id like to see the Lakers fail in that sense too

[BPo001]

I'd love to see the Lakers pass on Ball too and have him somehow end up playing for some shitty organization like the Kings. I'd don't dislike the kid, but his dad is ruining his career before it starts.

[sefant77]

Ball and the Kings. I would love it.

And like i said, how the game is played these days, oldschool playmaking skills arent so necessary anymore. See: Ricky Rubio

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Ball and the Kings. I would love it.

And like i said, how the game is played these days, oldschool playmaking skills arent so necessary anymore. See: Ricky Rubio

The thing is that superstars change the game to fit them.

Nash brought the pass-first PG back. Shaq brought the dominant inside-out game back.

right now the NBA really is about dynamic, scoring guards, but I could see that coming back.

Then again, I think Lonzo will be a flop. His offense will flounder because his shot is slow and low. He's not athletic enough to drive on most players and taller guards can disturb his jumper. His change-of-pace is okay but needs to be developed more and his lack of speed means defenders can give him space. Without offense, he won't be able to make sick passes unless he's matched up with a front-court that is dominant on the boards so they can run. In the halfcourt, I think he'll really struggle to score, which means he'll also struggle to pass.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Ball and the Kings. I would love it.

And like i said, how the game is played these days, oldschool playmaking skills arent so necessary anymore. See: Ricky Rubio

The thing is that superstars change the game to fit them.

Nash brought the pass-first PG back. Shaq brought the dominant inside-out game back.

right now the NBA really is about dynamic, scoring guards, but I could see that coming back.

Then again, I think Lonzo will be a flop. His offense will flounder because his shot is slow and low. He's not athletic enough to drive and taller guards can disturb his jumper. Without offense, he won't be able to make sick passes unless he's matched up with a front-court that is dominant on the boards so they can run.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Solid points -- had no idea he was that poor driving the ball. I can see an argument for taking the upside of whoever we draft at 9 over that, and I guess there must be a reason the Lakers are actively shopping him (besides that they will have either Lonzo or Markelle in a month).

Lets hope no team ahead of us reads Bryan_Wilson's analysis and trades their pick for Russell . If Lakers take Ball at #2 they definitely won't take a PG with the other lotto pick which would give us a better chance at one of the top PGs.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

The thing is that superstars change the game to fit them.

Nash brought the pass-first PG back. Shaq brought the dominant inside-out game back.

right now the NBA really is about dynamic, scoring guards, but I could see that coming back.

Then again, I think Lonzo will be a flop. His offense will flounder because his shot is slow and low. He's not athletic enough to drive on most players and taller guards can disturb his jumper. His change-of-pace is okay but needs to be developed more and his lack of speed means defenders can give him space. Without offense, he won't be able to make sick passes unless he's matched up with a front-court that is dominant on the boards so they can run. In the halfcourt, I think he'll really struggle to score, which means he'll also struggle to pass.

He can be locked on pretty easily too. Got torched anytime there was competition on him in last years college season, especially the tournament

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

He can be locked on pretty easily too. Got torched anytime there was competition on him in last years college season, especially the tournament

Yup!

His play vs. another elite point in Kentucky's Fox is revealing

12/3 - 14 pts on 5-12 FG (2-8 from 3)/ 7 ast/ 6 reb/ 6 to
3/24 - 10 pts on 4-10 FG (1-6 from 3)/ 8 ast/ 3 reb/ 4 to

He was thoroughly outplayed by Fox both games. Full disclosure I'm a hater and am rooting for him to fail (in large part due to this father, which I acknowledge is at least a little counterintuitive).

[Underdog]

A bit on Russell/Ball/Lakers: Magic Johnson Says Brandon Ingram Is His Team's Only Untouchable Player

[Scoobay]

If the Lakers pass on Ball, who takes him? Even if he falls to the Mavs at 9 i wouldn't want him.

that being said, any scenario where the Lakers pass on Ball and take someone for the Mavs (say Fox or Smith) and do a swap?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Scoobay

If the Lakers pass on Ball, who takes him? Even if he falls to the Mavs at 9 i wouldn't want him.

I'd take him in a heartbeat at #9, baggage and all -- but mostly because anyone else we'd want would definitely be gone if he slid that far (I'm certainly not taking Markkanen or Collins over Ball's upside...)

Originally Posted by Scoobay

that being said, any scenario where the Lakers pass on Ball and take someone for the Mavs (say Fox or Smith) and do a swap?

I don't see why the Lakers would do that when they could just grab Ball at #2, since it's highly unlikely that he'd fall to #9 if they pass... And it's not like we have anything they'd want to sweeten the deal anyway.

[sefant77]

Ball to LA is a lock

https://twitter.com/ESPNLosAngeles/s...68448021012481

[tap2390]

1) Celtics - Markelle Fultz (duh)
2) Lakers - DeAaron Fox (word on the street is they love his mentality/ athleticism)
3) Kings (trade #5 & #10 for #3) - Lonzo Ball (Sixers look hard at Ball and Jackson and ultimately decide that their games don't fit next to Simmons; Kings know someone will trade for this pick if they don't)
4) Suns - Jonathan Isaac (Suns consider the 3 3s on the board and opt for the one with the most upside; Tatum is a better scorer now but has a limited ceiling; Jackson has a higher floor, but can't shoot)
5) Sixers - Jayson Tatum (again they consider Jackson, but opt for scoring/shooting over defense/ athleticism)
6) Magic - Josh Jackson (Magic ecstatic to get Jackson here; have some concern about floor spacing, but hope to have an great defensive squad)
7) T-Wolves - Malik Monk (TWolves desperately need help off the bench, and find the best 6th man fit in the draft)
8) Knicks - Dennis Smith Jr. (Mavs fans everywhere shed a tear)
9) Mavericks - Donovan Mitchell (Mavs look to trade picks, but only Portland shows significant interest without having much to offer; Mavs look hard at Frank Ntilikina, but decide that his floor is not worth the risk; Mavs look at Markkanen's defined, safe skillset but aren't happy with his upside; Mavs take the best perimeter defender in the draft (or second best if you think Fox retains his speed while putting on weight) and a guy who's been shooting up draft boards... yes there's a bit of a logjam at the 2, but Mavs go BPA)
10) Sixers - Frank Ntilikina (with basically a free pick, the Sixers have the luxury of taking a prospect who may or may not develop; they look at Markkanen but decide they don't want to deal with him and Saric)
11) Hornets - Zach Collins (Markkanen is redundant with Kaminsky; Hornets take Collins hoping to phase out Zeller)
12) Pistons - Lauri Markkanen (ahh there he is; what do you need when you have Stanley Johnson at the 3 and Drummond at the 5? Spacing.)
13) Nuggets - OG Anunoby (Nugs need a versatile perimeter stopper; they look at Justin Jackson, but decide OG is the OG defender)
14) Heat - TJ Leaf (Pat Riley replaces Luke Babbitt with a better version of Luke Babbitt)

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by tap2390

1) Celtics - Markelle Fultz (duh)
2) Lakers - DeAaron Fox (word on the street is they love his mentality/ athleticism)
3) Kings (trade #5 & #10 for #3) - Lonzo Ball (Sixers look hard at Ball and Jackson and ultimately decide that their games don't fit next to Simmons; Kings know someone will trade for this pick if they don't)
4) Suns - Jonathan Isaac (Suns consider the 3 3s on the board and opt for the one with the most upside; Tatum is a better scorer now but has a limited ceiling; Jackson has a higher floor, but can't shoot)
5) Sixers - Jayson Tatum (again they consider Jackson, but opt for scoring/shooting over defense/ athleticism)
6) Magic - Josh Jackson (Magic ecstatic to get Jackson here; have some concern about floor spacing, but hope to have an great defensive squad)
7) T-Wolves - Malik Monk (TWolves desperately need help off the bench, and find the best 6th man fit in the draft)
8) Knicks - Dennis Smith Jr. (Mavs fans everywhere shed a tear)
9) Mavericks - Donovan Mitchell (Mavs look to trade picks, but only Portland shows significant interest without having much to offer; Mavs look hard at Frank Ntilikina, but decide that his floor is not worth the risk; Mavs look at Markkanen's defined, safe skillset but aren't happy with his upside; Mavs take the best perimeter defender in the draft (or second best if you think Fox retains his speed while putting on weight) and a guy who's been shooting up draft boards... yes there's a bit of a logjam at the 2, but Mavs go BPA)
10) Sixers - Frank Ntilikina (with basically a free pick, the Sixers have the luxury of taking a prospect who may or may not develop; they look at Markkanen but decide they don't want to deal with him and Saric)
11) Hornets - Zach Collins (Markkanen is redundant with Kaminsky; Hornets take Collins hoping to phase out Zeller)
12) Pistons - Lauri Markkanen (ahh there he is; what do you need when you have Stanley Johnson at the 3 and Drummond at the 5? Spacing.)
13) Nuggets - OG Anunoby (Nugs need a versatile perimeter stopper; they look at Justin Jackson, but decide OG is the OG defender)
14) Heat - TJ Leaf (Pat Riley replaces Luke Babbitt with a better version of Luke Babbitt)

Interesting outlook -- I like how you have the Mavs, of all teams, making the first completely out-of-leftfield move in this draft... I do admit that I like a lot about Mitchell's game. He pretty much makes Matthews expendable, since he shoots the three (35%) almost as well as Wes has shot for us (36%), has the same defensive instincts (but with much better lateral mobility), is more athletic, and thrives as a ball-handler in the pick-and-roll... His finishing skills could use a bit of polish, and he's a little shorter than Matthews, but actually has a longer wingspan which he uses to hassle bigger players on defense. He's got good size for a SG, but not so much that RC will play him at the 3... Obviously we'd lose veteran leadership if we traded Wes, but we'd be gaining a young guy whose career hasn't been stifled by an achilles rupture.

Definitely not as much upside as Monk if you're gonna create a logjam at the 2, but you'd be getting a guy with a very clear skillset in Carlisle's system... Not as dreamy as Ntilikina, but he might actually have more upside than other high floor/low ceiling guys like Markkanen or Collins.

Nice to see something fresh in this thread!


EDIT: also, the Heat pick made me LOL.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Interesting outlook -- I like how you have the Mavs, of all teams, making the first completely out-of-leftfield move in this draft... I do admit that I like a lot about Mitchell's game. He pretty much makes Matthews expendable, since he shoots the three (35%) almost as well as Wes has shot for us (36%), has the same defensive instincts (but with much better lateral mobility), is more athletic, and thrives as a ball-handler in the pick-and-roll... His finishing skills could use a bit of polish, and he's a little shorter than Matthews, but actually has a longer wingspan which he uses to hassle bigger players on defense. He's got good size for a SG, but not so much that RC will play him at the 3... Obviously we'd lose veteran leadership if we traded Wes, but we'd be gaining a young guy whose career hasn't been stifled by an achilles rupture.

Definitely not as much upside as Monk if you're gonna create a logjam at the 2, but you'd be getting a guy with a very clear skillset in Carlisle's system... Not as dreamy as Ntilikina, but he might actually have more upside than other high floor/low ceiling guys like Markkanen or Collins.

Nice to see something fresh in this thread!


EDIT: also, the Heat pick made me LOL.

I agree. Nice to see something fresh. I just have a hard time buying any pick who isn't a "swing for the fences" kinda guy. The ERA without Dirk is going to be awfully tough otherwise. There might not be a clear cut low risk, high ceiling guy at 9. I'll take high risk, high ceiling vs low risk, safe pick for the current state of our franchise.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Interesting outlook -- I like how you have the Mavs, of all teams, making the first completely out-of-leftfield move in this draft... I do admit that I like a lot about Mitchell's game. He pretty much makes Matthews expendable, since he shoots the three (35%) almost as well as Wes has shot for us (36%), has the same defensive instincts (but with much better lateral mobility), is more athletic, and thrives as a ball-handler in the pick-and-roll... His finishing skills could use a bit of polish, and he's a little shorter than Matthews, but actually has a longer wingspan which he uses to hassle bigger players on defense. He's got good size for a SG, but not so much that RC will play him at the 3... Obviously we'd lose veteran leadership if we traded Wes, but we'd be gaining a young guy whose career hasn't been stifled by an achilles rupture.

Definitely not as much upside as Monk if you're gonna create a logjam at the 2, but you'd be getting a guy with a very clear skillset in Carlisle's system... Not as dreamy as Ntilikina, but he might actually have more upside than other high floor/low ceiling guys like Markkanen or Collins.

Nice to see something fresh in this thread!


EDIT: also, the Heat pick made me LOL.

Thanks!

I honestly believe this is an 8 person draft with the order being the only question mark. I really don't see one of the players I have 9-14 sneaking into the top 8, but I guess we'll see. With the Mavs picking at 9 they have the luxury of pulling an audible. I worry Mitchell has some Dominique Jones "tweener without a jumper" in him, but I do believe his elite defense and athleticism will find him a place in the league.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Yeah, Mitchell has been steadily climbing up. The positive with him is how much he improved from his freshman to sophomore season. He looks much bigger than Monk when he plays.

[EricaLubarsky]

Mitchell has a little Tony Allen and a little Dwayne Wade in him. We could do worse, particularly next to Curry

[rimrocker]

Any chance Mitchell would be there at 15?
Would be nice to get the 15 and 26 (or 20 if we're lucky) from Portland for #9 if they would do it.

Mitchell sounds like someone who could be a nice core player for us and could possibily allow us to grab another late first.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Any chance Mitchell would be there at 15?
Would be nice to get the 15 and 26 (or 20 if we're lucky) from Portland for #9 if they would do it.

Mitchell sounds like someone who could be a nice core player for us and could possibily allow us to grab another late first.

Possible but by all accounts he's steadily rising on draft boards. Depends on team needs between 9-15 but wouldn't count on him being there.

[Bryan_Wilson]

I like Mitchell, I just would like him a lot more if we could trade down and get him. He could be a better version of Avery Bradley as his ceiling imo. My only issue with taking him over Frank is that Frank is almost 2 whole years younger. So it does bring up the potential ceiling vs potential floor debate.

[SMC0007]

Wow, nope on Mitchell at 9. If we are gonna take and roll the dice in epic fashion, I'd rather have Semi Ojeleye all day.

EDIT: Not to knock anyone, I mean we like what we like.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Wow, nope on Mitchell at 9. If we are gonna take and roll the dice in epic fashion, I'd rather have Semi Ojeleye all day.

EDIT: Not to knock anyone, I mean we like what we like.

At 9, I think we're guaranteed to have a pick that some of us will like and some of us will dislike (like Mitchell). There won't be a consensus pick available like Fultz

[Quetzalcoatl]

With the pick 9 I don't like Mitchell at all. Ntikilina isn`t ready yet, and maybe is a bust, but if we are going to roll the dices, I prefer the french one over Mitchell.

[EricaLubarsky]

24 days

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

24 days

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl

With the pick 9 I don't like Mitchell at all. Ntikilina isn`t ready yet, and maybe is a bust, but if we are going to roll the dices, I prefer the french one over Mitchell.

Yea.

I am just not interested in a defensive type with limited offensive capacity. .

[DevinHarriswillstart]

If we could trade back a few spots, pick up an asset, and draft Mitchell, then that would be a big win. He is growing on me more and more. A mix of Bledsoe, Felton, and some Wade.

That fact that he is such a good defender AND can rebound (!) is yuuuge. Mavs also desperately need a guy that can attack the rim. He is a safer pick than Frank or Collins without their upside. But his upside is still at least reasonably high.

[rimrocker]

Curious what some of you think about these trade ideas:

Curry/Mejri to OKC for #21/2018 2nd Rounder/Singler

Wes to Portland for #20/#26/Turner

We would have #9, #20, #21, #26.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Curious what some of you think about this trade:

Curry/Mejri to OKC for #21/2018 2nd Rounder/Singler

I'd do it 100%.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I want Lakers to pass on Lonzo just so we can watch the egg drop on his dad's head.

LaVar Ball—His Team and His Mouth—Shut Down by Compton, 109-57

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Curious what some of you think about these trade ideas:

Curry/Mejri to OKC for #21/2018 2nd Rounder/Singler

Wes to Portland for #20/#26/Turner

We would have #9, #20, #21, #26.

Pretty sure both OKC and Blazers decline, draft is too strong.