Mavs get Parsons!!!

[Big Boy Laroux]

Originally Posted by jamaljasonandjimmy

sounds too much like the guy from friends. sounds so fierce!

Could you BE any more obvious?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by gmoney411

Tyson and Monta both came out of high school. They have old NBA bodies. And you chose a number that almost every core member was older than. If you had said most of the team was 31 or younger I would have responded differently but you chose 28.4 which was an ESPN like random stat. Don't try to act like you didn't try to make the team look much younger than they are.

What point are you trying to make? The 2010-11 Mavs were older than this Mavs squad... The Spurs just won a ring with a similar young/old mix as this Mavs squad... And the Rockets can suck my dick. Go crawl your ass back to Clutchfans and stop hijacking this thread with your ridiculous biases and baseless opinions.

[EastTxMFFL]

I'm ready for the season to begin. I'm itching to see how much of an impact Parsons has on the team. If all goes well then we have our starting SF for years to come.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Underdog

What point are you trying to make? The 2010-11 Mavs were older than this Mavs squad... The Spurs just won a ring with a similar young/old mix as this Mavs squad... And the Rockets can suck my dick. Go crawl your ass back to Clutchfans and stop hijacking this thread with your ridiculous biases and baseless opinions.

LoL... this is kind of funny. On a serious note Gmoney, honestly at this point it feels more like your trying to antagonize people by engaging them in an endless debate. You make your points (most perfectly valid) but then when people oppose them you want to fight them in a circular debate that never ends. We get it.. you have an opinion. There is no reason to drag certain subjects on and on. And remember, your on our home turf. If we were saying these things in the Rockets forums we would be bashed endlessly and probably banned. I love that your willing to give your opinion on these subjects, but why drag things on and on just because people oppose you? I mean your on the Mavs forums for christ sake. Let's debate, but enoughs enough sometimes.

On the point of age.. sure we aren't the youngest legs. But we are tremendously younger than we have been in the past. At least it feels that way. I don't see our age being of any issue for the next 3 years.

[gmoney411]

Originally Posted by Underdog

What point are you trying to make? The 2010-11 Mavs were older than this Mavs squad... The Spurs just won a ring with a similar young/old mix as this Mavs squad... And the Rockets can suck my dick. Go crawl your ass back to Clutchfans and stop hijacking this thread with your ridiculous biases and baseless opinions.

I think they are too old. If you think they aren't you can argue that they aren't for a variety of reasons or you can even argue that age isn't an issue. This is an internet forum about basketball and I'm not going to get angry about it. You are taking this way too seriously.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EastTxMFFL

I'm ready for the season to begin. I'm itching to see how much of an impact Parsons has on the team. If all goes well then we have our starting SF for years to come.

Yep. For as much as I loved Marion, I'm glad we have some young talent to build a future with - Parsons works for both "win now" and "life after Dirk". If nothing else, he should grow into a franchise cornerstone a la Matrix.

[gmoney411]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

LoL... this is kind of funny. On a serious note Gmoney, honestly at this point it feels more like your trying to antagonize people by engaging them in an endless debate. You make your points (most perfectly valid) but then when people oppose them you want to fight them in a circular debate that never ends. We get it.. you have an opinion. There is no reason to drag certain subjects on and on. And remember, your on our home turf. If we were saying these things in the Rockets forums we would be bashed endlessly and probably banned. I love that your willing to give your opinion on these subjects, but why drag things on and on just because people oppose you? I mean your on the Mavs forums for christ sake. Let's debate, but enoughs enough sometimes.

I just saw this after my last post. The reason I do is because people completely lose perspective on these sites. I'm not the type to back down and if people want to battle I'll battle. But at the end of the day this is just me passing time

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by gmoney411

I think they are too old. If you think they aren't you can argue that they aren't for a variety of reasons or you can even argue that age isn't an issue. This is an internet forum about basketball and I'm not going to get angry about it. You are taking this way too seriously.

Wow, you can argue any opinion that anybody has...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by gmoney411

I just saw this after my last post. The reason I do is because people completely lose perspective on these sites. I'm not the type to back down and if people want to battle I'll battle. But at the end of the day this is just me passing time

No, this is wasting time.

[hayth.james.g]

I do agree people can lose perspective at times. The thing is that there is no "definite" when it comes to any of these subjects. We can all have an opinion. Some are more informed than others which makes it nice to have people helping each other. The difference is when you turn the forum into an endless debate. I am all for a good back and forth as much as the next guy, but there comes a point where its just healthy to reset. Taking into consideration that your on the Mavericks forum (I mean do you really expect it to be perfectly unbiased) and your a Houston fan, you would think you would be a little more self aware. If your objective is to banter, and troll then I suppose I have mispegged you. Note that I am not even saying your wrong on any of your topics necessarily (although I disagree with quite a few), but rather if joining a community and establishing a relationship with a set of folks is your objective then I would do it in a more thoughtful way. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing, and there's nothing wrong expressing your disagreement, but perspective and approach are vital. Do you honestly think your right on all your views? Or is it that you just want to be able to prove that everyone else is wrong? Look its the NBA, most all the teams have a different way of approaching the game. Some organizations are better at it than others. I wish you luck, and hope nothing but the best for the Rockets outside of hoping they don't make the playoffs

This topic is in my rearview. Peace B******!

[j0Shi]

Originally Posted by Underdog

And the Rockets can suck my dick.

must spread rep...

[jthig32]

I actually tend to agree that this team is rather old and that average age is relatively meaningless without context. Most of the youth on this team is never going to see the court.

I also agree that age, in and of itself, is less relavent when guys are coming into the league so young. It's more about games and minutes played. Where that argument loses steam is that Tyson and Monta haven't played a ton of either, due to injuries and limited playoff runs.

I don't think the age thing is a huge red flag, but I was hoping for a better backup to Dirk considering how poorly he played in the playoffs. I'd like to see his minutes cut even more, and for him to be given a handful of nights off throughout the season.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't think the age thing is a huge red flag, but I was hoping for a better backup to Dirk considering how poorly he played in the playoffs. I'd like to see his minutes cut even more, and for him to be given a handful of nights off throughout the season.

Dirk played "poorly" in the playoffs (by his standards) because the Spurs doubled-down on him defensively and dared the rest of our team to beat them... Monta did what he could and Carter stepped up to help, but Marion's inability to get anything going on the offensive end and Calderon's inability to stay on he floor because of his atrocious defense are a big reason why SA's gamble paid off. I'm not sure if any superstar in this league could've overcome the Spurs defense under those conditions.

But I do agree about keeping Dirk's minutes down... Don't forget that Parsons can play some 4 in certain matchups as well.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Dirk played "poorly" in the playoffs (by his standards) because the Spurs doubled-down on him defensively and dared the rest of our team to beat them... Monta did what he could and Carter stepped up to help, but Marion's inability to get anything going on the offensive end and Calderon's inability to stay on he floor because of his atrocious defense are a big reason why SA's gamble paid off. I'm not sure if any superstar in this league could've overcome the Spurs defense under those conditions.

But I do agree about keeping Dirk's minutes down... Don't forget that Parsons can play some 4 in certain matchups as well.

I don't agree with this. For the most part I thought dirk played poorly because splitters physical d/uncalled fouls depending on your point of view bothered him and because he just missed a ton of shots he normally makes. Watching that series there were no less than 30 shots I was absolutely sure were going in when he let them go that he just missed.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I don't agree with this. For the most part I thought dirk played poorly because splitters physical d/uncalled fouls depending on your point of view bothered him and because he just missed a ton of shots he normally makes. Watching that series there were no less than 30 shots I was absolutely sure were going in when he let them go that he just missed.

I don't disagree with that either - it was definitely a combination of things, but my point was that it had more to do with SA's scheme than Dirk's age... And I think the Chandlers are going to free up Dirk a little more by keeping a guy like Splitter's head on a swivel.

[45-South]

Originally Posted by dude1394

No...I'm trying to see how much time cp spent on the floor without harden specifically but also Dwight. For example Carlisle always "creates" bench by having dirk sit out early and come in with the second unit. It gives them an anchor when things start to get a little tight.

I thought I saw cp being sort of used that way as well. ( my dang autocorrect keeps changing cp to pc.)

My apologies but I don't have that information. I can tell you that both Harden and Parsons were hardly ever on the bench together at the same time, usually always one on the court unless it was a blowout. Howard's offense would come and go during the regular season and he didn't command double teams on the regular. The Rockets would try to work him the ball but they didn't necessarily lean on him offensively during the regular season, so I don't think you would get a true look of what you're looking for by just looking at the minutes.

I think the addition of CP will be great for Dirk because Carlisle will be able to rest him more during the regular season so he can be fresh for the post season. That's another reason I believe Carlisle was sitting Dirk early. Not just trying to "create bench" but to "try" to steal extra minutes of rest for Dirk.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

When 29 is old and an average is a random stat, it's time to put somebody on ignore.

Dwights 29th birthday is in december. Means Rockets are fecked...Ariza is also 30+, Harden moves at defense like a 50 year old...oh boy

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I actually tend to agree that this team is rather old and that average age is relatively meaningless without context. Most of the youth on this team is never going to see the court.

An average age statistic that doesn't take minutes played into account can be misleading. That doesn't make it a "random…stat", though, as much as it makes it a possibly overused default that could benefit from some refinement.

To get to the question at hand, though, I don't know that I agree that the team is rather old, or that the youth won't play. With the usual caveat that a trade or a Ray Allen signing could change things, I see things the following way:

- Ledo and Griffin are probably longshots to get much playing time this year, so I'm fine excluding them from the calculus.

- If the season starts with DH and Felton still the only two veteran PGs on the roster, I absolutely think Mekel will get meaningful minutes. A similar claim can be made about Greg Smith if he's healthy.

- Jae is THE wing defender on the team, so I expect him to be an important part of the rotation.

- Brandan's more just entering the prime age-range than young at this point, but he likewise figures to get plenty of burn.

- Parsons is likely to be one of the two high-minute guys on the team (along with Monta).

- RJeff and Lewis are a little older, but if either is playing more than 12 mpg for some reason other than injuries, it'll be because their age has turned out to not be an issue at all.

- Dirk is the one guy for whom age is really an issue. He's such an important piece that it's perfectly reasonable to question what that will mean for Dallas in the long-run, but Dirk being older and the team being older are two different things.

- Everybody else on the roster is in their late-20s to early-30s, which is pretty much the prime age range for most basketball players, IMO. Certainly last year's SA squad, the two Miami title teams, and Dallas' 2010/11 championship team all relied very heavily on guys who had more years and miles on them than that.

In sum, I see one older starter and a couple clearly past-their-prime backups who were signed because they possess a particular important skill (corner threes), and the rest of the rotation minutes are going to guys who either have all or most of their prime in front of them, or who at least haven't yet waved goodbye to it entirely.

I don't think the age thing is a huge red flag, but I was hoping for a better backup to Dirk considering how poorly he played in the playoffs. I'd like to see his minutes cut even more, and for him to be given a handful of nights off throughout the season.

This is fair. After he ran out of gas last year, though, I expect Dirk will get his rest regardless. At least there are multiple players on the team capable of getting some PF minutes. I have to think we'll see more of a committee approach to backup PF than we've been accustomed to seeing.

[dude1394]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
And the Rockets can suck my dick.
must spread rep...

Now this is some posting baby!!!!!!!

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I actually tend to agree that this team is rather old and that average age is relatively meaningless without context. Most of the youth on this team is never going to see the court.

I also agree that age, in and of itself, is less relavent when guys are coming into the league so young. It's more about games and minutes played. Where that argument loses steam is that Tyson and Monta haven't played a ton of either, due to injuries and limited playoff runs.

I don't think the age thing is a huge red flag, but I was hoping for a better backup to Dirk considering how poorly he played in the playoffs. I'd like to see his minutes cut even more, and for him to be given a handful of nights off throughout the season.

The dirkster and Jefferson are old but I don't see age being a big issue anywhere else. Tyson, monta, parsons, devin, Jae, Felton....none are very old, pretty much just a little over prime age.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I don't agree with this. For the most part I thought dirk played poorly because splitters physical d/uncalled fouls depending on your point of view bothered him and because he just missed a ton of shots he normally makes. Watching that series there were no less than 30 shots I was absolutely sure were going in when he let them go that he just missed.

Whenever I've seen dirk played well I've seen a center lurking in the lane waiting for him. Almost always. Now he may now be too old to,get around guys but splitter certainly should not be able to press him. But having duncan waiting because he didn't have to worry about anyone hurts.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

It's funny because Parsons does a lot of the things the old (and not 19 foot chucker) Josh Howard did. Attack the rim, move well without the ball, handle the ball, shoot the ball etc. One thing Parsons does a lot better though is passing and playmaking. Parsons can literally drive and dish like a pg which is invaluable.

[dirt_dobber]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

It's funny because Parsons does a lot of the things the old (and not 19 foot chucker) Josh Howard did. Attack the rim, move well without the ball, handle the ball, shoot the ball etc. One thing Parsons does a lot better though is passing and playmaking. Parsons can literally drive and dish like a pg which is invaluable.

great points DHWS - I completly agree - I have not been this pleased by one of our offseasons in a long, long time. I am really excited and I will probably even go to a couple of the preseason games - something I have only done a couple of times over these 30+ years.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

An average age statistic that doesn't take minutes played into account can be misleading. That doesn't make it a "random…stat", though, as much as it makes it a possibly overused default that could benefit from some refinement.

To get to the question at hand, though, I don't know that I agree that the team is rather old, or that the youth won't play. With the usual caveat that a trade or a Ray Allen signing could change things, I see things the following way:

- Ledo and Griffin are probably longshots to get much playing time this year, so I'm fine excluding them from the calculus.

- If the season starts with DH and Felton still the only two veteran PGs on the roster, I absolutely think Mekel will get meaningful minutes. A similar claim can be made about Greg Smith if he's healthy.

- Jae is THE wing defender on the team, so I expect him to be an important part of the rotation.

- Brandan's more just entering the prime age-range than young at this point, but he likewise figures to get plenty of burn.

- Parsons is likely to be one of the two high-minute guys on the team (along with Monta).

- RJeff and Lewis are a little older, but if either is playing more than 12 mpg for some reason other than injuries, it'll be because their age has turned out to not be an issue at all.

- Dirk is the one guy for whom age is really an issue. He's such an important piece that it's perfectly reasonable to question what that will mean for Dallas in the long-run, but Dirk being older and the team being older are two different things.

- Everybody else on the roster is in their late-20s to early-30s, which is pretty much the prime age range for most basketball players, IMO. Certainly last year's SA squad, the two Miami title teams, and Dallas' 2010/11 championship team all relied very heavily on guys who had more years and miles on them than that.

In sum, I see one older starter and a couple clearly past-their-prime backups who were signed because they possess a particular important skill (corner threes), and the rest of the rotation minutes are going to guys who either have all or most of their prime in front of them, or who at least haven't yet waved goodbye to it entirely.


This is fair. After he ran out of gas last year, though, I expect Dirk will get his rest regardless. At least there are multiple players on the team capable of getting some PF minutes. I have to think we'll see more of a committee approach to backup PF than we've been accustomed to seeing.

I think we're going to sign a combo-guard with the RMLE and Mekel will never play. At least I hope that's the case.

"Most" was the wrong word. We do have some youth. Agreed Jae, Parsons and Smith all figure to be in the regular rotation.

I do think Tyson, rightly or wrongly, is perceived as being pretty old for 31. I think the Mavs are going to watch his minutes as if he were a few years older than he really is. Would love to be wrong.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think we're going to sign a combo-guard with the RMLE and Mekel will never play. At least I hope that's the case.

"Most" was the wrong word. We do have some youth. Agreed Jae, Parsons and Smith all figure to be in the regular rotation.

I do think Tyson, rightly or wrongly, is perceived as being pretty old for 31. I think the Mavs are going to watch his minutes as if he were a few years older than he really is. Would love to be wrong.

If Mekel's around I'd like to see him get some minutes. But I don't expect Dallas to sit tight with their guard rotation, and whether it's a trade for a PG or using the room exception on Mo or Jameer, he could definitely get squeezed or sent out. If Crawford's the guy they sign I can see Mekel still getting some chances (because Crawford's really not a PG, and Felton has to earn trust).

Tyson…when I saw him play last year I thought his lateral movement still looked excellent, and outside of a slightly different shot selection and consequent dip in fg% there's really no evidence of decline that I've been able to find in his numbers. Health is definitely a concern with him, and he probably shouldn't be averaging more than 28 mpg in the regular season, but outside of that, you know…the Knicks. Just so tempting to blame that dysfunctional team for whatever may have gone wrong with Tyson last year (and outside of missed games, things didn't really go very wrong at all as far as his on-court production is concerned).

[BGMaverick9]

http://www.mavsoutsider.com/2014/07/...opment-growth/

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

http://www.mavsoutsider.com/2014/07/...opment-growth/

Great article. Much appreciated.

[Voice of aus]

I wrote a statistical analayis of the contracts of parsons and ariza over at your best friends "clutchfans "

Doesn't bash or take sides in who is the better player but uses my new metric ORP (explained in the article) to quantify the contracts in respects to other SF's

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=256961

[Voice of aus]

Forgot to add articles name is : Statistical Analysis about the ARIZA, PARSONS contracts and working out their value around the league (VOA)

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Voice of aus

Forgot to add articles name is : Statistical Analysis about the ARIZA, PARSONS contracts and working out their value around the league (VOA)

Interesting formula. I don't think it really says or explains anything most of us didn't know. The Mavs overpaid because it was literally the only way to get a 25 year old who hasn't reached his max potential and was considers the glue to a team that is a divisional and in state rival. Would love to see the value of Dirk + Parsons contracts according to this metric.

Also in that thread you make the assumption later on tha Cuban wanted Morey to match. I disagree. You don't include a player option and trade kicker on a guy like Morey if your hoping he matches. Those things don't affect the Mavs nearly as much as Houston and everyone knows Morey has a hated for contracts like that. If you wanted to hurt Houston you just make a max contract. Houston probably matches and it's still a tough contract to unload if your trying to use it to obtain a 3rd star.

[Voice of aus]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Interesting formula. I don't think it really says or explains anything most of us didn't know. The Mavs overpaid because it was literally the only way to get a 25 year old who hasn't reached his max potential and was considers the glue to a team that is a divisional and in state rival. Would love to see the value of Dirk + Parsons contracts according to this metric.

Also in that thread you make the assumption later on tha Cuban wanted Morey to match. I disagree. You don't include a player option and trade kicker on a guy like Morey if your hoping he matches. Those things don't affect the Mavs nearly as much as Houston and everyone knows Morey has a hated for contracts like that. If you wanted to hurt Houston you just make a max contract. Houston probably matches and it's still a tough contract to unload if your trying to use it to obtain a 3rd star.

I don't go on about it in the main peice but I discuss that in the comments, Parsons will more an likely opt out after year 2 to re up and get a longer term deal.

I think it's a solid buy at 15 if you can manage to get him at 4/48 after parsons opts out and does the mavs a solid.

I'm gonna hate seeing cp25 playing in blue next year after being a florida gators fan (parsons college team) and then luckerly being drafted by the rockets and then being the longest current serving rocket up until morey decided not to match, it's gonna be hard to boo him I love me some chandler bang

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

http://www.mavsoutsider.com/2014/07/...opment-growth/

Wow... How does anyone stop this? I mean, it seems like they're only going to get more efficient playing off of each other.

[Murphy3]

At this point, Dirk is still the most likely candidate to be the main go to guy down the stretch during crunch time especially in the playoffs. So yeah, age with this team can be a factor because with each passing year, we don't really know what type of impact it'll have on him. I personally believe that adding Parsons and Chandler along with hopefully a full season of Harris will allow for easier and easier looks for Dirk which will lead to a bit less stress on the body.

[spreedom]

I wouldn't be surprised if Dirk was the #2 scorer on the team this year (likely after Parsons IMO) but I would definitely expect that he is the one with the ball in his hands in crunch time.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Voice of aus

I wrote a statistical analayis of the contracts of parsons and ariza over at your best friends "clutchfans "

Doesn't bash or take sides in who is the better player but uses my new metric ORP (explained in the article) to quantify the contracts in respects to other SF's

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=256961

Man I really hate rocket fans that just spew garbage:

"Also Marion has basically come out and said that he feels sighted from Dallas based on what he's given them the past few years. It sounds like the Parsons signing really irked him. The chip he's going to have on his shoulder this year could be the best value you get in a veteran like him."

WHY DID I CLICK THE LINK THIS HAPPENS EVERYTIME.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Wow... How does anyone stop this? I mean, it seems like they're only going to get more efficient playing off of each other.

I love Ellis hitting like Ray Allen from the left corner and Parsons from the right corner. Add the fact that Dirk doesnt like the corner threes and its like a perfect match

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I love Ellis hitting like Ray Allen from the left corner and Parsons from the right corner. Add the fact that Dirk doesnt like the corner threes and its like a perfect match

That's what I'm talking about - all three of them are perfectly complimentary in where they like to operate...

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Voice of aus

I wrote a statistical analayis of the contracts of parsons and ariza over at your best friends "clutchfans "

Doesn't bash or take sides in who is the better player but uses my new metric ORP (explained in the article) to quantify the contracts in respects to other SF's

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=256961

LOL. Stick to rugby and cricket mate.


"[W]e just upgraded the most stacked superstar position in the NBA with an elite defender who is a touch better than Chandler on the offensive end."

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

At this point, Dirk is still the most likely candidate to be the main go to guy down the stretch during crunch time especially in the playoffs. So yeah, age with this team can be a factor because with each passing year, we don't really know what type of impact it'll have on him. I personally believe that adding Parsons and Chandler along with hopefully a full season of Harris will allow for easier and easier looks for Dirk which will lead to a bit less stress on the body.

Well it should hopefully mean that the team can finally be good without Dirk needing to be an all star every night.

[tap2390]

I know I shouldn't bite, but I'll tell you what I see in Ariza. He's inconsistent, often-injured, older, and known for doing well in contract years. Most of the posters here were wary of signing him even before Parsons seemed like a possibility.