Mavs off-season and draft 2023 thread

[Amarelooms]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

People be dumb then.

Kyrie literally cannot go to the Suns unless he?s taking the minimum.

He?s a free agent which means he can
1) sign with us for anything up to the max
Or
2) sign with them for the minimum

The second apron means they cant get a sign and trade.

That?s it. Suns don?t even have exceptions to use.

That 12 mill? That?s MLE for a team not paying tax. The tax starts at 165. They are at 216. They aren?t getting a full MLE.

Hope what you say is true.

[EricaLubarsky]

HB back to Kings

No HB/OMax PF position

[Melonhead]

Good he looked like the exact same player he?s always been watching him in the playoffs. No need for a retread

[EricaLubarsky]

Macmahon:

Kyrie probably back
Mavs don?t love Ayton but like a good deal
Powell probably back on min

[Amarelooms]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

HB back to Kings

No HB/OMax PF position

Why would you pay 18 a year for Barnes? Hold old is he now. He sucked here I wouldn?t pay him even 12 a year.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Amarelooms

Hope what you say is true.

No need to hope. She's correct. Suns are in the luxury tax, which means they don't even have the MLE, let alone enough room to sign a big free agent like Kyrie. So unless Kyrie is taking the minimum, he's not going to the Suns.

People are acting like it's some kind of betrayal or an indication that he's definitely leaving for him to meet with other teams. Frankly it would be bizarre for him not to meet with other teams. Every free agent is going to meet with other teams even if they have every intention of re-signing, for leverage alone.

All that being said, Kyrie is probably the most unpredictable player in the NBA history, so I'm prepared for anything.

[Thespiralgoeson]

^^ Also, the fact the Phoenix seems to be the only team we know of that Kyrie is meeting with for the moment is a sign of how little interest there is out there for him.

This is the entire list of of NBA teams with cap space right now, according to https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-free-ag...190259283.html

Houston Rockets ($60.9 million)
San Antonio Spurs ($38.6 million)
Sacramento Kings ($35.6 million)
Indiana Pacers ($32.2 million)
Detroit Pistons ($30 million)
Utah Jazz ($28.4 million)
Orlando Magic ($23.9 million)
Oklahoma City Thunder ($16.6 million)

None of those teams are anywhere close to contending. So the only way Kyrie can make as much or more than the Mavs can pay him is if he decides he doesn't care about winning. Kyrie may be a lot of not-so-great things, but he is not someone who doesn't care about winning. Every career move he has made up to this point indicates that he wants to win.

EDIT: He seems to also want a large media market too, so that rules about everyone on that list but Houston.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

^^ Also, the fact the Phoenix seems to be the only team we know of that Kyrie is meeting with for the moment is a sign of how little interest there is out there for them.

This is the entire list of of NBA teams with cap space right now, according to https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-free-ag...190259283.html

Houston Rockets ($60.9 million)
San Antonio Spurs ($38.6 million)
Sacramento Kings ($35.6 million)
Indiana Pacers ($32.2 million)
Detroit Pistons ($30 million)
Utah Jazz ($28.4 million)
Orlando Magic ($23.9 million)
Oklahoma City Thunder ($16.6 million)

None of those teams are anywhere close to contending. So the only way Kyrie can make as much or more than the Mavs can pay him is if he decides he doesn't care about winning. Kyrie may be a lot of not-so-great things, but he is not someone who doesn't care about winning. Every career move he has made up to this point indicates that he wants to win.

EDIT: He seems to also want a large media market too, so that rules about everyone on that list but Houston.

Pacers are down below that with HB, right?

Also his max is 47 which means unless he?s taking a pay cut, it?s only Dallas and Houston and Houston hasn?t even picked up the phone unless it?s evaded all the reporters.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

^^ Also, the fact the Phoenix seems to be the only team we know of that Kyrie is meeting with for the moment is a sign of how little interest there is out there for him.

This is the entire list of of NBA teams with cap space right now, according to https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-free-ag...190259283.html

Houston Rockets ($60.9 million)
San Antonio Spurs ($38.6 million)
Sacramento Kings ($35.6 million)
Indiana Pacers ($32.2 million)
Detroit Pistons ($30 million)
Utah Jazz ($28.4 million)
Orlando Magic ($23.9 million)
Oklahoma City Thunder ($16.6 million)

None of those teams are anywhere close to contending. So the only way Kyrie can make as much or more than the Mavs can pay him is if he decides he doesn't care about winning. Kyrie may be a lot of not-so-great things, but he is not someone who doesn't care about winning. Every career move he has made up to this point indicates that he wants to win.

EDIT: He seems to also want a large media market too, so that rules about everyone on that list but Houston.

This is the same list that Harden looked at. That's why he decided on opt in and trade

[purplefrog]

Saw a tweet (will post it later) saying "Mavs intend to show restraint with the Kyrie deal". Will Cuban screw this up again?

[saclare]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

No signing Drummond but we can trade McGee for him.

This is exactly what I thought of yesterday when seeing the opt-in from Drummond. Stein wouldn't be that far off, so either McGee trade or absorb with remaining TPE +?

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Ha! Imagine the bait and switch if Kyrie goes to Phoenix and signs a contract with us just to Harden it and then we straight up flip him for KAT.

Kidding! Only a few things would make me rethink being a Mavs fan and trading for Harden or KAT are two.

I'd be done with Mavs on either of those two. It would be the most non-sensical thing to bring in either, especially KAT who is soft as Charmin and about to earn close to $60M on his deal. One of the worst contracts lol

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Dude, KAT has a player option of 65 million in his final year. That is the biggest of poison pill contracts I've ever seen. Nobody is trading for that.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

That anonymous account came and went saying Houston is getting Fred Vanvleet. Be nuts if they really outdid all of the mainstream media.

[sig]

I liek Towns the player but who is going to trade for that contract. Knicks or BKN seem like the only places that might go for him. Atlanta? Both BKN and NY lack stars of his Towns caliber. Wolves just landed Leo. miller in draft. Towns is their main PF unless they deal him. If/When they deal, the pieces coming back might include PF's. Wolves will have to pay both Edwards and McDaniels next year. I guess McDaniel can be the SF but maybe Mavs shuld try to land for the PF spot.

[purplefrog]

"Kyrie Irving is trying to create a market out there," said Adrian Wojnarowski. "It may just not be there for him. Certainly, Dallas, I think, is going to try to show some restraint, some discipline on what they're going to offer Kyrie Irving with a new deal in Dallas. It's going to be more than anybody else can offer him.

"I think he's going to try to spend some time here trying to manufacture a marketplace of salary cap space and teams that might actually scare Dallas into thinking they have to up their offer. I'm not sure that's happening. That will be an interesting process as it plays out. I still think Kyrie Irving inevitably will return back to Dallas on a deal to play with Luka Doncic."

ADRIAN WOJNAROWSKI/ESPN

Kyrie taking his time to manufacture a marketplace will, once again, screw up any Mavs plan to fill out the roster. Feels like here we go again.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sig

I liek Towns the player but who is going to trade for that contract. Knicks or BKN seem like the only places that might go for him. Atlanta? Both BKN and NY lack stars of his Towns caliber. Wolves just landed Leo. miller in draft. Towns is their main PF unless they deal him. If/When they deal, the pieces coming back might include PF's. Wolves will have to pay both Edwards and McDaniels next year. I guess McDaniel can be the SF but maybe Mavs shuld try to land for the PF spot.

Yeah I laughed at the Beal thing because of the contract and that is 57mill in 2026-2027, but Beal somewhat shows up in the playoffs. KAT is going to get 65mill in 2027-2028 and has a history of poor playoff performances.

I can ignore the shade to Dirk. I can ignore the immaturity. You just don't pay a B+ player A+ money particularly when they wilt under pressure.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

"Kyrie Irving is trying to create a market out there," said Adrian Wojnarowski. "It may just not be there for him. Certainly, Dallas, I think, is going to try to show some restraint, some discipline on what they're going to offer Kyrie Irving with a new deal in Dallas. It's going to be more than anybody else can offer him.

"I think he's going to try to spend some time here trying to manufacture a marketplace of salary cap space and teams that might actually scare Dallas into thinking they have to up their offer. I'm not sure that's happening. That will be an interesting process as it plays out. I still think Kyrie Irving inevitably will return back to Dallas on a deal to play with Luka Doncic."

ADRIAN WOJNAROWSKI/ESPN

Kyrie taking his time to manufacture a marketplace will, once again, screw up any Mavs plan to fill out the roster. Feels like here we go again.

I don't think he messes up anything. Nico is a smart dude. Offer him a deal of 40/40/40 with a PO 40 in year four. That will put us under the tax which will mean we have the full MLE even without dumping McGee.

There is only one team that can offer him 40-47 and that team (Rockets) don't want him. We're in the driver's seat here.

If he comes back and pulls a Harden demanding a trade, then we SnT him to the same 40mil and it doesn't impact our MLE. Kyrie has even less leverage than Harden because there is no player option. Demanding a trade would suck, but once Rockets announce the FVV/Brooks offers, then we are the only team that can pay him 40+. If he wants 40+ and wants the Suns then the only option would be to sign with us and then we flip him for Ayton/supporting pieces. We get at least something and we are the only ones that can pay him.

Teams that can pay Kyrie 40-47
Us
Rockets (who are not pursuing Kyrie by all reports)

Teams that can pay Kyrie 30-38mill a year (9-17 mill less than his max)
San Antonio (38.6)- 9mill pay cut - I think Pops says no to pairing Kyrie with Wemby. Not a big market.
Pacers (32) - 15mill pay cut - I think Rick says no. Not a big market. Youth movement.
Pistons (30m) - 17mill pay cut - They could offer, but no one is saying that they are trying. 17 mill pay cut. Small market.

Teams that can pay Kyrie 20-29 a year (18-27mill less than his max)
Jazz - don't want him and he'd have to take a 19mill a year cut
Magic - maybe want him, but he'd have to take a 24mill pay cut (50% of what he could get here)
Thunder - don't want him and can only offer him 16mill (30 mill less than he can get here)

[EricaLubarsky]

@_utilitysports
BREAKING: The Houston Rockets have agreed to a deal with free agent point guard Fred Van Vleet

If true, Mavs are the only team that can offer more than 80% of Kyrie's max of 47mill. Spurs are the closest with 38.6mill of his max of 47.

If true, that would also mean the Rockets are getting slapped on the wrist with a SRP

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

If true, Mavs are the only team that can offer more than 80% of Kyrie's max of 47mill. Spurs are the closest with 38.6mill of his max of 47.

If true, that would also mean the Rockets are getting slapped on the wrist with a SRP

Man, that anonymous account is on fire.

I wonder what this means for Toronto and who is available if true.

[Amarelooms]

Don?t play games with kyrie. Tell him max willing offer. For me that?s 3 for 120. Don?t wait for him - give him deadline and focus on signing someone for the Mle

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I'd do 4/160 team option in the 4th year. I don't see any other team offering that.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'd do 4/160 team option in the 4th year. I don't see any other team offering that.

Here's what I keep coming back to:

The ONLY team that even CAN offer over 29 a year is the Rockets and they don't want him.

Anything over 4/128 HAS to come from us. It can be a SnT or he can stay here, but it is us that he signs his contract with. It's not about what teams WANT to offer. It's that they CANT offer more than that-- and most teams are much less. For instance, the Pistons may want him, but other than SnT, the only thing they can offer is 4/75.

The only downside to lowballing him is that he may be insulted and want out. In that case, he can take a 30-40-50% pay cut or he can sign with us. Even if we lowball him with 4/160, we're the only team that can go that high and even if he wants out, it's not like other teams want to push his value up either.

[EricaLubarsky]

Dallas has been linked to Grant Williams, Jae Crowder, Eric Gordon and Malik Beasley as forward/wing targets, per
@JakeLFischer
.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Crowder would be a perfect fit if he had anything left in the tank and didn't quit on teams.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Here's what I keep coming back to:

The ONLY team that even CAN offer over 29 a year is the Rockets and they don't want him.

Anything over 4/128 HAS to come from us. It can be a SnT or he can stay here, but it is us that he signs his contract with. It's not about what teams WANT to offer. It's that they CANT offer more than that-- and most teams are much less. For instance, the Pistons may want him, but other than SnT, the only thing they can offer is 4/75.

The only downside to lowballing him is that he may be insulted and want out. In that case, he can take a 30-40-50% pay cut or he can sign with us. Even if we lowball him with 4/160, we're the only team that can go that high and even if he wants out, it's not like other teams want to push his value up either.

The math certainly works in the Mavs favor. If Cuban allows Nico the freedom to negotiate within some broad boundaries, then there is not much to worry about. But Cuban's track record suggests there is room for concern. Add to that Kyrie's reputation for not being the most rational person in the room and the situation becomes more unpredictable then it should be. If the Mavs offer the 40/40/40/40PO deal you suggested then Kyrie signs and hopefully quickly. If Cuban tries to play Shark Tank, then all bets are off. I could see Kyrie taking a one-year deal somewhere else just to stick it to Mark Cuban.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Rumor that Zubac is available. Gotta be all over that if true.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Rumor that Zubac is available. Gotta be all over that if true.

Harden has either demanded/requested Clippers (depending on who you listen to) and Clippers are about the only team that makes sense for Harden. If/when that trade happens, they are going to have to move around all the furniture to make it happen while staying under the second apron.

Unless the 76ers want to go full rebuild and also trade Embiid, I don't see them wanting Zubac. This could be a perfect opportunity if Nico can get it to work.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Dallas has been linked to Grant Williams, Jae Crowder, Eric Gordon and Malik Beasley as forward/wing targets, per
@JakeLFischer
.

Malik Beasley is a personal fav of mine but I don't know how good he'd be on this team.

Crowder I guess is good for 10-12 minutes a night.......

Grant Williams is the one though....he could come right in and give us what we're missing. That toughness and defense and can hit the corner 3. You will have to overpay for what his stats show but he would be amuch needed addition.

[EricaLubarsky]

Who says no? Maybe the two second rounders from us both go to Clips. Maybe the Clips have to give up more to get to Philly, but am I crazy that it actually makes sense for all.

Clips save money and still have Harden/PG/Kawhi and get McGee as a center while saving a bit of money.

76ers stay competitive with Powell running point. They may have to also dump Morris/Covington because 76ers have Harris already, but we could end up with Covington/Morris if we include THJ.

Mavs end up with Zubac for cheap as our stopgap center as Lively develops over the next 1-3 years.

[EricaLubarsky]

OR this

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Who says no? Maybe the two second rounders from us both go to Clips. Maybe the Clips have to give up more to get to Philly, but am I crazy that it actually makes sense for all.

Clips save money and still have Harden/PG/Kawhi and get McGee as a center while saving a bit of money.

76ers stay competitive with Powell running point. They may have to also dump Morris/Covington because 76ers have Harris already, but we could end up with Covington/Morris if we include THJ.

Mavs end up with Zubac for cheap as our stopgap center as Lively develops over the next 1-3 years.

I would throw in our 27th first as well. That's how good of a fit Zubac is with Lively as our centers.

Can't keep screwing around with the center spot. Gotta be decisive and make something happen.

[EricaLubarsky]

Windy is a douchebag proposing Kyrie to Phllly.

If so, it would need to be a SnT and we could potentially end up with Zubac and an upgraded 3/D/R PF (Harris/Covington) that could be a stopgap for Prosper.

Losing Kyrie would hurt, but with Luka starting and Hardy growing into his own and a starting-caliber player at every position, we could still be really good.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I've kinda wondered who really among the fans really cared if we kept Kyrie or not. The main plus is helping Luka get through the season not having to carry the load by himself.

But otherwise, if we got a decent package back, then I'm for that as well.

Not sure the drama will be worth it long term.

[Amarelooms]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I've kinda wondered who really among the fans really cared if we kept Kyrie or not. The main plus is helping Luka get through the season not having to carry the load by himself.

But otherwise, if we got a decent package back, then I'm for that as well.

Not sure the drama will be worth it long term.

I?d take good sign n trade. Don?t want kyrie honestly but can?t lose for nothing.

[EricaLubarsky]

All really depends on him.

If he doesn't want to be here, then let's find a good SnT deal. If we get Zubac, Powell, and/or Covington, some talent, and a pick or two, I think we compete. There are deals like that with every team that Kyrie is considering. Cuts our salary so we can go hard on Grant/Bruce and we look golden. We end up okay.

If he does want to be here, then welcome. He can accept a few mill shy of the max and we have the full MLE to grab some talent in free agency. We got a sweet draft haul. We have a few assets for a reorganization. We end up okay.

The only bad situation is if he comes here and doesn't like it, but he's a UFA so it's his choice to make.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Amarelooms

I?d take good sign n trade. Don?t want kyrie honestly but can?t lose for nothing.

There are only three options

1) He signs with us and stays (anywhere from min to max)
2) He signs with us as part of a SnT that benefits us
3) He walks for WAYYYYYYY less than the minimum.

I highly doubt he takes option 3

[EricaLubarsky]

What teams can offer Kyrie vs. what he'd lose out on over the contract:

Mavs
5 years, 279.3mill which is...
4 years, 214.3mill (for the first four years for comparison)

Rockets
4 years, 175.9mill (-38.4mill over four years, -103.4 over five)

Spurs
4 years, 146.6mill (-67.7mill over four years)

Pacers
4 years, 137.9mill (-76.4mill over four years)

Magic
4 years, 86.2mill (-128mill over four years)

Kings
4 years, 77.6mill (-136.7mill over four years)

OKC
4 years, 68.9mill (-145.4mill over four years)

Teams with the non-tax MLE
4 years, 50 mill (-164.3mill over four years)

Teams with the taxpayer MLE
3 years, 25mill (-129.5mill over three years)

Teams with the BAE
2 years, 15mill (-84mill over two years)

Suns, Heat, other capped teams
2 years, 6.0mill (-93 mill over two years)

[EricaLubarsky]

JVG fired. Mavs interested as assistant coach.

[EricaLubarsky]

TWO MORE HOURS until this gets really insane

[BPo001]

Curious if we just hear a ton of moves right out of the gate. I imagine teams are being a little more tight lipped this year to avoid any tampering violations.