Mavs Free Agency 11/12 - Page 32 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

OneLove22 · 12-10-2011, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

Was this before or after other offers, if before I can see why some people are upset, if after, well, what do you expect, we all knew that there would be other teams that could make offers we wouldn't want to match.

I still think the guy could be here if he wanted to. I mean 20 mil for one year ain't a bad paycheck, and that doesn't factor in any extension offers that may have been made next summer.

Also, sorry for the horrrible grammar, posting from a mobile device.

Either way, it's too risky for a player to take a one year deal no matter how much it is. Especially when Tyson has had an injury plagued career and his stock is as high as it has ever been. Can't blame him, can't blame the Mavs.

rabbitproof · 12-10-2011, 02:18 AM

If we get Hedo, can we amnesty him?

mavs777 · 12-10-2011, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

If we get Hedo, can we amnesty him?

No can't amnest a player you trade for.

CATCH-17 · 12-10-2011, 02:24 AM

Ok so Dallas is 1 of 3 teams allowed to negotiate with D. Howard..,

How can they pull this off?!?!

FINtastic · 12-10-2011, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CATCH-17

Ok so Dallas is 1 of 3 teams allowed to negotiate with D. Howard..,

How can they pull this off?!?!

They can wait until next offseason when he's a free agent and try to get him to sign on the dotted line.

mavs777 · 12-10-2011, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

They can wait until next offseason when he's a free agent and try to get him to sign on the dotted line.

They can't considering Orlando will trade him somewhere he will sign an extension

OneLove22 · 12-10-2011, 02:33 AM

Three way trade for Howard? Is that possible?

We couldn't trade shit though.

CATCH-17 · 12-10-2011, 02:40 AM

All I know is we're 1 of 3 teams who can make a move and if Cuban can find a way he'll do it.

CATCH-17 · 12-10-2011, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneLove22

Three way trade for Howard? Is that possible?

We couldn't trade shit though.

Could you trade Haywood and Roddy plus something else for Hedo/Howard?

OneLove22 · 12-10-2011, 02:49 AM

Alright, so lets say the CP3 trade goes through which many people think something will happen there with LA. Who then does LA have besides injury prone Bynum to deal for Howard?

Granted, Bynum does have a big upside, but is he worth the risk of Howard or do they want more depth?

We could send Haywood, Roddy B, JET, Matrix, whoever. Problem is Haywoods contract.

Is it possible to trade a Fernandez or Carter? lol.

The Nets are in hot water. Also, I can't see the Magic wanting to trade Howard within the East. Especially to pair up with D. Will.

mavs777 · 12-10-2011, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CATCH-17

Could you trade Haywood and Roddy plus something else for Hedo/Howard?

Orlando wants nothing to do with Haywood's contract.

1 deal has to be the trade exception for Hedo.

best offer for the other deal I can think of for orlando is this http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=7kbjymx

They would get basically nothing but a shitload of caproom and roddy.

Mavsfan2thedeath · 12-10-2011, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Orlando wants nothing to do with Haywood's contract.

1 deal has to be the trade exception for Hedo.

best offer for the other deal I can think of for orlando is this http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=7kbjymx

They would get basically nothing but a shitload of caproom and roddy.

A better question would be, "What other teams desperately needing a big man could the Mavs employ in a 3-team trade in order to land Howard?"

There are several center-starved teams NOT on that short list of Dwight-negotiators who would play along with Dallas I think. Houston (assuming the Paul deal really is dead) comes to mind off the top of my head...

Fragism · 12-10-2011, 07:03 AM

$15 million a year is not fair market value for Tyson Chandler. Teams that overpay their players are always destined for failure. The Magic with Rashard Lewis, the Wizards with Gilbert Arenas.

sefant77 · 12-10-2011, 08:45 AM

I think we could definatly be a dark horse in the Dwight race if he nails it down to three teams.

Lakers:
It would be a PR desaster for the Magic to trade Dwight to LA. They could rename the franchise to "Lakers´bitches" for the next decades. And all this for Bynum? The guy is never healthy, he isnt a franchise player but earning allready franchise player money. They have to take back (and pay) an expiring for Hedo. The way Odom is bitching allready he wont have much trade value for the Magic in a following trade.

Nets:
Dwight would stay in the EC and pair up with Deron. Do the Magic want another emerging superteam in the EC after Heat, Knicks (and Bulls)? For Lopez?

Mavs:
They are able to erase Hedos contract via TE. They ship Dwight in the WC and avoid the Lakers desaster. They get with Roddy a talent that is able to become an allstar one day, he has all tools and the right mindset. Im pretty sure that Cuban would be able to find a third team to involve Haywood and ship more talent to Orlando. Just watch the incoming paydays of Chandler, Nene, Dalembert, Gasol. Haywoods 4y with ~8.4m looking pretty good...

Well...i say its possible...

Budapest Maverick · 12-10-2011, 08:45 AM

I know it's bleacherreport, but something along those lines could maybe get it done.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/9...llas-mavericks

We obviously need to give away the TPE, 2 first, Roddy, and take back all of the bad contracts we can have, and it also needs to be a three team deal. Maybe the Magic doesn't want to gift another franchise player to the Lakers.

After that, Dirk reconstructs his contract (new CBA allows him) and bamm, next season the 3D in Big D starts their conquering quest.

And we would be the favorites this year as well. That's a really, really nice pipe dream isn't it?

jthig32 · 12-10-2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

I may be wrong about the Hollywood thing, but I don't remember the guy ever coming out and saying he wanted to be a Mav in 11-12. All I can remember is him deflcting any questions about that. I really don't think the guy wanted to be a Mav anymore. Hell, he was talking about how he wouldn't be here long before the lockout was over and any offer (or non-offer) had been made.

Not saying I don't appreciate the guy or disrespect his contributions. Some players would do anything to stay on a championship team, some wouldn't.

He sounded pretty damn sincere to me in his last interview yesterday.

We only gave him a one year contract offer (some reports have said two but I don't really buy it), I'm not sure what you expected.

oilfieldtrash · 12-10-2011, 10:13 AM

I hope the Howard deal gets done somehow. I highly doubt it though.

Kiss Dirks championship days goodbye thanks to the mavs front office. He's got one or two years left at that level. They just pissed away this year and they better hope for a miracle next year. After that say hello to lottery pick basketball.

dude1394 · 12-10-2011, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragism

$15 million a year is not fair market value for Tyson Chandler. Teams that overpay their players are always destined for failure. The Magic with Rashard Lewis, the Wizards with Gilbert Arenas.

I think you have to take character into account, I don't see much in the two you listed. Tyson played his rear end off where ever he had been.

I also think its riskier with offensive players I some respects and not as risky with bigs. You can always use a big, but an offensive player has to have the ball.

nowhereman · 12-10-2011, 11:48 AM

I think if you're young and in the top 5 at your position, are widely cited as the difference maker that made a perennial 1st round fodder team win a championship, are able to attract other players to your team, and teams are willing to pay you $15/million a year, 15 million is fair market value.

Five-ofan · 12-10-2011, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

I think if you're young and in the top 5 at your position, are widely cited as the difference maker that made a perennial 1st round fodder team win a championship, are able to attract other players to your team, and teams are willing to pay you $15/million a year, 15 million is fair market value.

Chandler isnt a top 5 center and isnt young. Then again, fair market value is what the market will pay. No issue with him taking it

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-10-2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Chandler isnt a top 5 center and isnt young. Then again, fair market value is what the market will pay. No issue with him taking it

Yes he is a top 5 center. Theres not many great centers in the NBA.

D12
Gasol
Bynum
Chandler
Dalembert

deamon · 12-10-2011, 12:24 PM

Dalembert in TOP5?
Bogut, Nene, Jefferson, Horford, Okafor are better.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-10-2011, 12:33 PM

I did forget Bogut and yeah Nene. Forget Okafor and Jefferson Id take Dalembert.

EricaLubarsky · 12-10-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

I did forget Bogut and yeah Nene. Forget Okafor and Jefferson Id take Dalembert.

Daly over okafor? Al Jefferson over any actual center? Crazy

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-10-2011, 12:58 PM

Ok maybe I totally botched the list. But I still say Chandler is top 5, more of a game changer than anyone like Okafor or Al freakin Jefferson.

OSUmavsfan · 12-10-2011, 01:12 PM

Yeah Tyson is a top 5 center. I'd say he's the 2nd best defensively and likely top 10 offensively just by virtue of having good enough hands to catch and finish at the rim.

Five-ofan · 12-10-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Yes he is a top 5 center. Theres not many great centers in the NBA.

D12
Gasol
Bynum
Chandler
Dalembert

D12, gasol, gasol, nene, bynum, okafor, Duncan, lopez in no particular order are all pretty easily better than tyson. Tysons a borderline top 10 center.

FINtastic · 12-10-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

D12, gasol, gasol, nene, bynum, okafor, Duncan, lopez in no particular order are all pretty easily better than tyson. Tysons a borderline top 10 center.

Marc Gasol and Brook Lopez are pretty easily better than Chandler? I wouldn't even put Okafor above Chandler.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-10-2011, 01:26 PM

Pau Gasol is not a center, Duncan is washed up, Lopez isn't better than Chandler.

jthig32 · 12-10-2011, 01:29 PM

I'd definitely take Marc Gasol over Chandler. Probably still Duncan too. Brook Lopez..it depends. Certainly not for this Mavs team. Okafor, no. Bogut over Chandler as well.

Five-ofan · 12-10-2011, 01:34 PM

I absolutely love chandler for how he helped the mavs last year but you guys are delusional about him. He is incredibly limited. He is an avg rebounder for a center, he doesnt block shots and hes not all that good in man defense. He is easily the best pick and roll defensive big in the nba but other than that and finishing oops he does nothing at an elite level.

Im not trying to bury chandler but this is getting ridiculous.

Five-ofan · 12-10-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'd definitely take Marc Gasol over Chandler. Probably still Duncan too. Brook Lopez..it depends. Certainly not for this Mavs team. Okafor, no. Bogut over Chandler as well.

Im not saying for this team, im just saying in general. For the mavs id take chandler over lopez at least

nowhereman · 12-10-2011, 02:01 PM

Well it's debatable. I'm inclined to agree w/ Zach Lowe, who listed him as the #4 center ahead of Bogut, Bynum, and Marc Gasol (listing Pau and Duncan as PFs). I'm inclined to agree:

Quote:

35. TYSON CHANDLER
C, unrestricted free agent (Dallas Mavericks)
Age: 28
2010-11 Stats: 10.1 PPG, 65.4 FG%, 73.2 FT%, 9.4 RPG, 0.4 APG, 1.1 BLK

We’re getting into the elite now, and if you watched the 2010-11 season — not just the playoffs or even the Finals, but the entire season — you know Chandler belongs in this group, when healthy. Last season marked a return to health for Chandler after two injury-plagued seasons that followed four straight in which he played at least 73 games. And that one magical season in Dallas proved two things:

1) Chandler might be the second-best defender in the league right now. He’s a beast on the glass (only five players grabbed a higher percentage of available defensive rebounds) and a handful to score against in the post. You can say those things about a decent number of big men, though.

But few of those bigs can jump above the foul line, crouch low to the ground like a Duke guard about to pound the floor and slide step-for-step with LeBron James or Dwyane Wade, creating a wall between the ball and hoop. Chandler didn’t do it alone in Dallas — not with Jason Kidd and Shawn Marion anticipating everything James, Wade and Kevin Durant did in the postseason — but he was the biggest on-court factor, by far, in turning the Mavs into a top-10 defense capable of winning the title.

Having a big guy who can do everything defensively alters a franchise; Dirk Nowitzki often likened Chandler’s impact in Dallas to Garnett’s on the 2007-08 Celtics, and the comparison never seemed over the top. That kind of defense alone is worth big money on the open market.

2) In the right system, Chandler can be an asset on offense, despite his limitations. Those limitations are obvious: Chandler took just 40 shots out of post-ups all season, according to Synergy, and only 51 from outside of 9 feet, according to Hoopdata. (Interesting side note: Chandler went 21-of-44 on long twos after attempting 46 combined in his four previous seasons. This is something to watch.)

Chandler needs a pick-and-roll ball-handler and some shooters to thrive in the lane, but he can indeed thrive. It’s easy to reduce his offensive game to “catch a lob and dunk,” but the reality is more complex. Few centers have his athleticism and leaping ability, and even fewer have that stuff and the ability to catch the ball 10 feet from the basket, gather and score. Chandler needs others to create for him, but he can create space for others on the perimeter because of the threat he poses rolling to the hoop.

Factor in his elite offensive rebounding — only five guys grabbed a higher percentage of available offensive boards — and you have a more complete player than meets the eye. And if you’re wondering why he outranks the rest of Dallas’ championship supporting cast, it’s because of two things: age and size.

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011...ers-nos-31-40/

FINtastic · 12-10-2011, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I absolutely love chandler for how he helped the mavs last year but you guys are delusional about him. He is incredibly limited. He is an avg rebounder for a center, he doesnt block shots and hes not all that good in man defense. He is easily the best pick and roll defensive big in the nba but other than that and finishing oops he does nothing at an elite level.

Im not trying to bury chandler but this is getting ridiculous.

On what planet is he an average rebounder for a center? This is one of the more bizarre claims I've heard. Just looking at the list of centers you included who "are pretty easily better" than Chandler, here's how Chandler ranks in terms of TRB%:

Howard 21.8%
Chandler 19.7%
Bynum 19.2%
Duncan 18.3%
Okafor 18.2%
P Gasol 15.6%
Nene 14.4%
M Gasol 13.1%
B Lopez 10.0%

So lumped in with all the centers you think are better players than him, he ranks 2nd overall last year in the best rebounding metric we have (I'm not tossing in any other names, but just know that he was 3rd in TRB% out of the 33 players according to BBall-reference who played at least 20 min/game and 30 games total). Marc Gasol and Brook Lopez, in particular, are really bad rebounders.

He also blocks shots just fine even if it's not an amazing level, but this doesn't matter because that doesn't capture the level that he plays team defense at. The more important thing is that he's a great team defender, which is arguably the most important role for a center in today's NBA, where there's just honestly not enough great offensive centers anyways and the game is pretty much predicated on getting to the basket and drawing fouls. I don't care where he ranks if all phases of the game are equal because all phases just simply aren't for a center.

And while he's offensively limited, he still scored 13 pts per 36 minutes at an efficiency that surpasses anyone you just listed. In other words, he doesn't take a lot of bad shots, which is something you are highly underrating. I don't care if you have "a lot of nice moves" if you end up taking bad shots to wash out some of those easy shots you just took. The fact that you can expect easy points out of Chandler and not have him be a liability at the free throw line IS an asset.

Five-ofan · 12-10-2011, 02:21 PM

The mistake you are making is comparing unlike situations. Center for the mavs is the easiest position to be effecient at in the nba and aside from that, the other time he has been super effecient was with chris paul. The true shooting was largely fueled by his likely unsustainable increase in ft%.

Im not saying that those others are better rebounders than chandler, they arent(well not all of them) though it is worth saying that his trb was sub 17% the previous 2 years. And no, chandler doesnt block shots.

He has value, and he is a great pick and roll/help defender but i think were gonna find out as he goes to new york that he got too much credit for the mavs d and marion got too little.

dirno2000 · 12-10-2011, 02:29 PM

The official Chandler trade per Howard Beck:

Knicks acquire Chandler, plus rights to Ahmad Nivins and Giorgos Printezis. Mavs get Andy Rautins and protected 2012 2nd-rd pick from Wiz

Kante · 12-10-2011, 02:31 PM

Link: http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/stor...ington-wizards

jthig32 · 12-10-2011, 02:35 PM

Someone start the Ahmad Nivens appreciation thread.

FINtastic · 12-10-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

The mistake you are making is comparing unlike situations. Center for the mavs is the easiest position to be effecient at in the nba and aside from that, the other time he has been super effecient was with chris paul. The true shooting was largely fueled by his likely unsustainable increase in ft%.

He still a 59.9% TS% guy for his career, and that includes all of those season learning the ropes on bad teams when he was coming fresh out of high school. He's been under 62% TS% only once in the last five years. That's still very, very good.

Quote:

Im not saying that those others are better rebounders than chandler, they arent(well not all of them) though it is worth saying that his trb was sub 17% the previous 2 years.

That's bit unfair using stats from 2 years in which he was obviously playing injured. When you toss those out, last year's number falls right in line with his career numbers. With that being said, his TRB% for the two years he was playing injured and a shell of himself were still better than the TRB% put up last year by 4 of the 8 players you listed.

Quote:

He has value, and he is a great pick and roll/help defender but i think were gonna find out as he goes to new york that he got too much credit for the mavs d and marion got too little.

Well we'll just have to see how that plays out then. I like Marion too, but we're going to have to agree to disagree here.

j0Shi · 12-10-2011, 02:39 PM

I kind of like the yadda yadda about not being able to compete without Tyson. I mean, we should have been swept by Portland out of the first round last year according to some. What do those analysts know anyway?

It only hurts that Chuck is off the bandwagon ... can't we convince him to come back?