Official offseason 2013-2014 thread - Page 32 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-18-2013, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I thought that was in the previous CBA? I thought in the new one that a max player in a S&T couldn't make the same max money for the new team as he did with his current team? Ugh...

Dirk's Knee · 06-18-2013, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

The Lakers can do a sign and trade with any of those teams, and none of them are located in the same town/division.

Houston ranked last in salary just doesn't have enough high dollar assets to trade without including Harden in the deal and presumably the reason Howard would want to go to Houston is to play with Harden. Dallas has really nothing to trade as we just don't have enough assets on the books and LA can't receive a sign and trade. Atlanta has a valuable asset in Horford, but to make the money match they'd have to include Louis Williams as well. But if I were Atlanta and Howard showed interest, I'd convince him to sign him outright and look to other teams if I wanted to trade the few assets on contract. No team over the tax apron can receive a player in a sign and trade which rules out pretty much all the big market teams (except LAC). You're telling me Howard would choose to go play in a small market just for the hell of it? Because he would have to agree to a sign and trade, he is unrestricted. Really, Dwight has all the control here...

mac222b · 06-18-2013, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I thought that was in the previous CBA? I thought in the new one that a max player in a S&T couldn't make the same max money for the new team as he did with his current team? Ugh...

I thought so too

Underdog · 06-18-2013, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Starting 5 would be Paul, Crawford, Pierce (because Rivers really wanted Boston to re-sign him and he will be a free agent), Garnett, and Howard. Grant Hill retired leaving Caron Butler also on the roster. Given the starting 5, they're bound to draw a couple vets who would play for the min and also have the 25th pick to ride the bench. But yes they would be absolutely limited in building very deep reserves.

Sources: Clips walk away from deal

Quote:

Howard is 27 and somewhat injury prone. If he wants a championship, now's the time, not after Kobe retires. He reportedly doesn't like Kobe and doesn't like D'Antoni...

Why does Kobe have to retire before Howard can win a championship? I'm talking about being the face of a franchise, not winning rings.

Quote:

Don't kid yourself into thinking Dallas has any type of free agent draw as compared to LA. In addition to Kobe vs Dirk, it's really about the legacy of the Lakers versus the Mavs, and in that competition LA wins every time.

Good thing I never compared franchises - I was only talking about aging sidekicks. And any scenario involving LeBron would be under the assumption that the Mavs already triumphed over the Lakers in the D12 sweepstakes, otherwise, this hypothetical discussion becomes even more pointless.

Quote:

Kobe will be ready to pass the torch and play less minutes

I'm sorry, you must be talking about a different Kobe... I'm talking about Kobe Bryant, guard for the Los Angeles Lakers, nicknamed "Black Mamba" - he's kind of a big deal, and he acts like it.

Dirk's Knee · 06-18-2013, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I thought that was in the previous CBA? I thought in the new one that a max player in a S&T couldn't make the same max money for the new team as he did with his current team? Ugh...

Whoops! You're right. So the only way to get that big money is to stay with LAL.

Quote:

For players the benefits are limited. Under previous CBAs a player who qualified could receive a full Bird contract and go to the team of his choice, which encouraged the player to seek a sign-and-trade once he decided to play elsewhere. Under the current CBA a player receives the same contract via sign-and-trade (four years, 4.5% raises) that he could get by signing with his new team directly, and can receive a larger Bird contract only if he stays with his previous team.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q91

Dirk's Knee · 06-18-2013, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Sources: Clips walk away from deal

Why does Kobe have to retire before Howard can win a championship? I'm talking about being the face of a franchise, not winning rings.

Good thing I never compared franchises - I was only talking about aging sidekicks. And any scenario involving LeBron would be under the assumption that the Mavs already triumphed over the Lakers in the D12 sweepstakes, otherwise, this hypothetical discussion becomes even more pointless.

I'm sorry, you must be talking about a different Kobe... I'm talking about Kobe Bryant, guard for the Los Angeles Lakers, nicknamed "Black Mamba" - he's kind of a big deal, and he acts like it.

He's a big deal that already forgoes team practice to limit the stress on his knees, and is coming of an injury. Kobe wants that title in order to be tied with MJ in titles. If he has to sit on the bench in a wheelchair to get it, he will do it.

Underdog · 06-18-2013, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Houston ranked last in salary just doesn't have enough high dollar assets to trade without including Harden in the deal and presumably the reason Howard would want to go to Houston is to play with Harden. Dallas has really nothing to trade as we just don't have enough assets on the books and LA can't receive a sign and trade. Atlanta has a valuable asset in Horford, but to make the money match they'd have to include Louis Williams as well. But if I were Atlanta and Howard showed interest, I'd convince him to sign him outright and look to other teams if I wanted to trade the few assets on contract. No team over the tax apron can receive a player in a sign and trade which rules out pretty much all the big market teams (except LAC). You're telling me Howard would choose to go play in a small market just for the hell of it? Because he would have to agree to a sign and trade, he is unrestricted. Really, Dwight has all the control here...

First of all, I never said anything about small market teams, so stop putting words in my mouth.

Also, a third team could help facilitate a trade, which means Dallas can add assets via sign-and-trade with Mayo, Collison, Kaman, etc. - just as long as those players aren't being sent directly to the Lakers.

Underdog · 06-18-2013, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

He's a big deal that already forgoes team practice to limit the stress on his knees, and is coming of an injury. Kobe wants that title in order to be tied with MJ in titles. If he has to sit on the bench in a wheelchair to get it, he will do it.

We talkin' 'bout practice? I'm talking about LeBron and Kobe sharing the rock in a game.

And you do realize part of the reason that Kobe got injured is because he averaged the most MPG since 07-08 last season, right? He's never going to sit if it can help his team win... I don't know who you think he is, but he isn't.

oilfieldtrash · 06-18-2013, 03:17 PM

Let's hope SA closes out the finals tonight so the off-season can start.

BPo001 · 06-18-2013, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

He's a big deal that already forgoes team practice to limit the stress on his knees, and is coming of an injury. Kobe wants that title in order to be tied with MJ in titles. If he has to sit on the bench in a wheelchair to get it, he will do it.

Hasn't Kobe already said that if he can't play at a high level he is accustomed to that he will retire? Don't think he wants to be that old player who can't hang em up.

marc9211 · 06-18-2013, 03:48 PM

Everyone should post there best feasible lineup for the mavs next year

SMC0007 · 06-18-2013, 04:10 PM

Pessimistic:
Ellis
Iggy
Carter
Dirk
FA/Sarg

Dirk's Knee · 06-18-2013, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc9211

Everyone should post there best feasible lineup for the mavs next year

No big fish and no new max contracts will result in something like this:

Ellis or Jack or Robinson or Calderon/Schroeder or Carter-Williams
Tony Allen or Belinelli/Vince Carter
Marion/Crowder
Nowitzki/Wright
Oden or Dalembert or Andersen/Sarge

The best offensive 5 option would probably be:

Ellis
Belinelli
Carter
Nowitski
Wright

Best defensive 5 option would probably be:

Jack
Allen
Crowder
Marion
Dalembert

No idea what the FO is going to do though...

marc9211 · 06-18-2013, 04:19 PM

Would we have cap for that?

samoan-maverickII · 06-18-2013, 04:29 PM

Jack
Evans
Iggy
Dirk
Wright
Bench:
Crowder
Shabazz
Brand
Anyone but Vince
Cunningham
Splitter

LonghornDub · 06-18-2013, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samoan-maverickII

Jack
Evans
Iggy
Dirk
Wright
Bench:
Crowder
Shabazz
Brand
Anyone but Vince
Cunningham
Splitter

You know that Vince was one of the Mavs' top 3-4 players and one of the bets bench players in the league last year....right?

Eerily reminiscent of complaints about a certain other Mavs sixth man.

samoan-maverickII · 06-18-2013, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

You know that Vince was one of the Mavs' top 3-4 players and one of the bets bench players in the league last year....right?

Eerily reminiscent of complaints about a certain other Mavs sixth man.

Vince has always been able to put up number, I'll give you that. But my overall opinion on this guy is that he is just a loser. He never came across as a player who could help a team get over. Toronto, Phoenix, Orlando, New Jersey and Dallas he's always just getting points. I never saw a passion in him to be better than that. He's a loser.

Dirk's Knee · 06-18-2013, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc9211

Would we have cap for that?

If your referring to me, I'm presenting an either/or scenario. We won't be able to pick up Ellis, Belinelli, Jack, Allen, and Dalembert and re-sign Wright. They'll have to pick which positions they want stronger offensively and which defensively.. There are few truly 2-way players in free agency (or really in the league).

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-18-2013, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samoan-maverickII

Vince has always been able to put up number, I'll give you that. But my overall opinion on this guy is that he is just a loser. He never came across as a player who could help a team get over. Toronto, Phoenix, Orlando, New Jersey and Dallas he's always just getting points. I never saw a passion in him to be better than that. He's a loser.

VC is a team player which goes a long way in my book. He has never once (at least publicly) complained about his role, whether he starts, or that the team hasn't been that good the last two seasons. Oh and he suddenly committed himself to defense last season. At 3 mil, you can't do better vet, production, and locker room-wise.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-18-2013, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc9211

Everyone should post there best feasible lineup for the mavs next year

Optimistic:
Paul
Morrow
Marion
Dirk
Dieng

Pessimistic:
Ellis or Jennings or Evans or MCW
Mayo or Ellis
Marion
Dirk
Dieng (if they don't draft MCW)

samoan-maverickII · 06-18-2013, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

VC is a team player which goes a long way in my book. He has never once (at least publicly) complained about his role, whether he starts, or that the team hasn't been that good the last two seasons. Oh and he suddenly committed himself to defense last season. At 3 mil, you can't do better vet, production, and locker room-wise.

A great deal at 3 mil but I'd rather spend it on some young talent that hasn't hit the ceiling yet.

bobdole22 · 06-18-2013, 05:15 PM

José Calderón - ____
Tony Allen - Morrow? (Maybe Morrow is worth another shot?)
Marion - Vince
Dirk - Marion
_____ - Kaman

Holy crap this is hard. Calderon seems like the best fit for an old school Mavs team. Add in a great defending 2 guard. Maybe it's not the right approach.

Increase the number of vets. The backup two would preferably be a guy who chucks shots. Is keeping the formula as close as possible to our championship run even the best strategy now after we've lost so many?

BGMaverick9 · 06-18-2013, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samoan-maverickII

Vince has always been able to put up number, I'll give you that. But my overall opinion on this guy is that he is just a loser. He never came across as a player who could help a team get over. Toronto, Phoenix, Orlando, New Jersey and Dallas he's always just getting points. I never saw a passion in him to be better than that. He's a loser.

Would re-...who am I kidding?
That's a mindless opinion. You clearly are just a Vince hater and disregard what he did this year and what Cuban and Carlisle said about him.

samoan-maverickII · 06-18-2013, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Would re-...who am I kidding?
That's a mindless opinion. You clearly are just a Vince hater and disregard what he did this year and what Cuban and Carlisle said about him.

Mindless is a bit unfair. Hater may be accurate though.

BGMaverick9 · 06-18-2013, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samoan-maverickII

Mindless is a bit unfair. Hater may be accurate though.

Vince Carter has actually been one of your most durable guys:
Cuban “I feel bad for Vince. Let me just say that right off. Vince is a warrior. All these things I’ve heard in the past about him being soft and not playing hard, f— that. That dude comes out to deliver every f—— night. Even when a game got out of hand, he was busting people for not doing what they were supposed to do. He was cheerleading on the bench. I feel worse for Vince than I do for Dirk. Vince hasn’t been there and he’s had two great seasons for us. And he’s just a first-class guy who busts his a– every f—— game. You never look at Vince and say he’s taking a play off. He’s f—— taking charges. He should have had a charge in the last game that went against us."

On Vince embracing his role as the leader off the bench:
Cuban - “He just wants to compete and win. Period. End of story. All the s— that I heard from the past, I don’t know where that came from. I’m proud that he’s on the Mavericks. The guy lays it out every time. I can’t put it any other way. He’s one of those guys I want to retire here.”

CanadianMavsFan · 06-18-2013, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Optimistic:
Paul
Morrow
Marion
Dirk
Dieng

Pessimistic:
Ellis or Jennings or Evans or MCW
Mayo or Ellis
Marion
Dirk
Dieng (if they don't draft MCW)

For me:

Optimistic:

Option 1A:

PG Paul
SG Carter
SF Marion
PF Nowitzki
C Dieng (Or MLE player)

Option 1B:

PG Calderon (MLE perhaps?)
SG Carter
SF Marion
PF Nowitzki
C Howard

Pessimistic:

PG Calderon or Jack
SG Carter
SF Marion
PF Nowitzki
C James or a Rookie Pick (ugh)

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-18-2013, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianMavsFan

Pessimistic:

PG Calderon or Jack
SG Carter
SF Marion
PF Nowitzki
C James or a Rookie Pick (ugh)

I think Jack is borderline optimistic depending on the rest of the team. He was very good for most of the playoffs and would still be a big upgrade. I just feel like Calderon's weaknesses are too many. I can't fathom another pg who can't defend worth crap....like Collison.

BGMaverick9 · 06-18-2013, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I think Jack is borderline optimistic depending on the rest of the team. He was very good for most of the playoffs and would still be a big upgrade. I just feel like Calderon's weaknesses are too many. I can't fathom another pg who can't defend worth crap....like Collison.

They're not nearly the same player on the offensive end of the floor (JC and DC).

yahyes · 06-18-2013, 07:30 PM

First:
Paul
Iggy
Marion
Dirk
Sarge

Second:
Calderon
Iggy
Crowder
Dirk
Dwight Howard

Third:
Calderon
Tony Allen
Josh Smith
Dirk
Sarge

Fourth:
Jarrtt Jack
Tony Allen
Josh Smith
Dirk
Sarge

Backup options except for VC(one year left): Brand, Brewer, Greg Oden, JJ Redick, Anthony Morrow, Nick Young, Jermaine O'neal, Andray Blatche, Mike Dunleavy, Luke Babbitt, Dejuan Blair, Will Bynum, and Luke Walton

Underdog · 06-18-2013, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I think Jack is borderline optimistic depending on the rest of the team. He was very good for most of the playoffs and would still be a big upgrade. I just feel like Calderon's weaknesses are too many. I can't fathom another pg who can't defend worth crap....like Collison.

Calderon isn't a terrible defender, at least not enough to be a liability if he's paired with a decent defender at the 2 (or better yet, a guy like Tony Allen)... I still like Jack better as an all-around player, but Calderon is a ridiculously efficient weapon on offense and might have a bigger overall impact on a game because of it.

Dude shot 46% from beyond the arc last season - imagine the two man game between him and Dirk.

yahyes · 06-18-2013, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Calderon isn't a terrible defender, at least not enough to be a liability if he's paired with a decent defender at the 2 (or better yet, a guy like Tony Allen)... I still like Jack better as an all-around player, but Calderon is a ridiculously efficient weapon on offense and might have a bigger overall impact on a game because of it.

Dude shot 46% from beyond the arc last season - imagine the two man game between him and Dirk.

Calderon reminds me a lot of Nash. Minus the MVP's, but he still has solid awareness. Also the pass first PG we really need. Surround him with defending SG's like Tony Allen or Iggy. It could all balance out. Just imagining him be paired up with Dirk and Dwight sounds plausible too.

Underdog · 06-18-2013, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

Calderon reminds me a lot of Nash. Minus the MVP's, but he still has solid awareness. Also the pass first PG we really need. Surround him with defending SG like Tony Allen or Iggy. It could all balance out.

The difference in price between Tony Allen and Andre Iguodala will be immense - like, possibly in the ballpark of ~$10mil.

yahyes · 06-18-2013, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

The difference in price between Tony Allen and Andre Iguodala will be immense - like, possibly in the ballpark of ~$10mil.

Most definitely. Iggy is a proven all-star. While Tony is an quality defender and decent offensive help.

BGMaverick9 · 06-18-2013, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Calderon isn't a terrible defender, at least not enough to be a liability if he's paired with a decent defender at the 2 (or better yet, a guy like Tony Allen)... I still like Jack better as an all-around player, but Calderon is a ridiculously efficient weapon on offense and might have a bigger overall impact on a game because of it.

Dude shot 46% from beyond the arc last season - imagine the two man game between him and Dirk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

Calderon reminds me a lot of Nash. Minus the MVP's, but he still has solid awareness. Also the pass first PG we really need. Surround him with defending SG's like Tony Allen or Iggy. It could all balance out. Just imagining him be paired up with Dirk and Dwight sounds plausible too.

There are concerns about dribble penetration if you go with Allen with Calderon. Not so much with Iggy.

Calderon is an underrated option.

marc9211 · 06-18-2013, 08:13 PM

Yea I was just curious I think we could be solid with a
Ellis/Jennings
Carter
Iggy
Dirk
Drafted rookie/wright/oden

Not sure if we'd have the cap? I need to find the numbers on that.

Underdog · 06-18-2013, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc9211

Yea I was just curious I think we could be solid with a
Ellis/Jennings
Carter
Iggy
Dirk
Drafted rookie/wright/oden

Not sure if we'd have the cap? I need to find the numbers on that.

You can get Ellis or Iggy, not both... And what happens to Marion?

marc9211 · 06-18-2013, 08:22 PM

Okay yea wasn't sure I need to look up or be explained all about our cap for next year an what not. I just think having Iggy and Marion wouldn't be good for our offense and Iggy is someone we could possibly build around.

SMC0007 · 06-18-2013, 10:15 PM

May be that Mayo is going ultimately be picking up Ellis's FA scraps. Those who can't afford or can't convince Ellis to come might be interested in Mayo.

We only have Cap room to sign 1 max player, so Idk if Iggy or Calderon would be an option after that point.

From hearing Cuban on an extensive interview on "the bob and dan show", he basically said that they aren't interested in making the 13th pick. He implied that the money could be better used via FA, unless a guy that no one else picked up on, but they thought was a superstar is available then they take the pick.

Sounds like, we are going to fill out the roster with mid pack guys like: Iggy, Calderon, Ellis etc. I'm sure they will take a nice pitch to Howard and Paul but I have my doubts that they feel great about their chances.

SMC0007 · 06-18-2013, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc9211

Okay yea wasn't sure I need to look up or be explained all about our cap for next year an what not. I just think having Iggy and Marion wouldn't be good for our offense and Iggy is someone we could possibly build around.

Yea, maybe. You could get the most of those two on the floor together by putting Marion at the PF so spacing isn't an issue.

Lately I'm swinging towards moving Marion for a few obvious reasons. Mainly because he can't space the floor very well at all. I think we have milked the last bit of 'trix sauce (TM) he had. I think he still has good value to a specific team that is a SF/PF shy of making a legit run, but it's not here imo.

Underdog · 06-18-2013, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

We only have Cap room to sign 1 max player, so Idk if Iggy or Calderon would be an option after that point.

Or, pass on a max player and get Iggy, Calderon and a center instead. I have a feeling that some of this cap space is going to get eaten by a trade though.