2018 Free Agency / Armchair GM Thread - Page 33 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-14-2018, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

I'm not understanding why people are saying Dirk should come off the bench. What will happen in those opening 6 to 8 minutes that will ruin the rest of the game?

If the Mavs consistently get behind in the 1st quarter by double digits THEN you can make an argument to bench Dirk. Until then he should be the starter. He's earned it

I really can't see a scenario where Dirk starts. And honestly, I think he'll voluntarily come off the bench.

SMC0007 · 07-14-2018, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

I'm not understanding why people are saying Dirk should come off the bench. What will happen in those opening 6 to 8 minutes that will ruin the rest of the game?

If the Mavs consistently get behind in the 1st quarter by double digits THEN you can make an argument to bench Dirk. Until then he should be the starter. He's earned it

The concept that you set a defensive tone as well as having more offensive punch with the subs relieving starters. Though things have changed some with DJ. I like the idea of starting a more athletic and better defensive group including Powell and then having instant offense in Dirk off the bench. With Dirk and a 19 year old I cant imagine we will be locking it down especially early on.

I dont think you bench Dirk in season. He has earned more than what benching him would suggest. That's something you go to him and ask his thoughts on before the season IMO. That's another thing I'm thankful that I can pretend to be Rick from my recliner and dont have to do the hard stuff

EricaLubarsky · 07-14-2018, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I really can't see a scenario where Dirk starts. And honestly, I think he'll voluntarily come off the bench.

Dirk has to start. Otherwise he won’t be warmed up enough. Even 5 minutes on the bench, he’s said that he gets stiff and that makes him prone to injury. That’s kinda the thing with being old

EricaLubarsky · 07-14-2018, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me.B

Dirk played mostly Center last year and Powell for the most part was a PF with only spot minutes at the 5. If Powell continues his progression there will be no reason he shouldn’t be starting.

It's cool to have an opinion so you can argue that Dirk SHOULD play a certain position, but factually Dirk played the majority (62% of his minutes) at PF and 80% of his minutes in the last 40 games at center. As the season went on, he actually played MORE time at PF, because Rick realized the experiment didn't work.

Powell played 95% of his minutes at center (99% over the last 40 games).

Powell was given a chance to be a PF last season and for a couple of games this season, but you can't be a PF in Rick's system without a consistent jumper that goes out to the three point line. Powell failed to be good enough so he spent the entire season developing as a center and he got pretty darn good at it. As I've said, he went from shooting 43% of his shots inside last year to shooting 62% of his shots inside while continuing to shoot an eFG% of 73% from there. As a center, he saw his best PER, his best rebounding, and his best overall eFG%. He's our center and now that Jordan is here, he looks like our primary backup center unless he somehow blows us away with his shooting in camp.

Honestly hope Kleber and Powell both make a push to be the "starting" PF. Maybe Rick will also experiment with Barnes at PF again with a big-time rebounder next to him. Anything is possible, but I like the competition. For now, though, Powell has spent an entire season developing into a Rick-style center and Rick liked what he saw, so Powell is going to have to do a lot to change that perspective.

Quote:

Starting him at the 4 also gives Dallas a pretty athletic front court with DJ at the 5. Also saves Dirks legs and limits exposing him in defense. Dirk would be able to come off the bench as instant offense. Hell he could even end up in the running for 6th man of the year. It just makes too much sense to bring Dirk off the bench at this point in his career and he himself has even said he has no problem coming off the bench at this point.

The problem is that Dirk isn't coming off the bench. They've tried it and at 40, he's just not limber enough. He needs to be warmed up and ready to go. Powell may usurp Kleber's role as Dirk's primary backup at the PF spot, but Dirk will start-- not because he's our best player but because if he plays, he starts both halves after warming up before each.

Underdog · 07-14-2018, 05:19 PM

I think we’re arguing two different definitions of the word “starter” here... Some people look at it as the guy who actually starts the game, whereas others look at it as the guy who gets the most minutes at the position — it’s the old JET-Stevenson debate, except Dirk is basically Stevenson in this scenario.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-14-2018, 05:34 PM

So you're saying the starting lineup will be DJ/Dirk/Barnes/Doncic/Smith? I'll believe it when I see it because that is an absolute disaster on defense.

SMC0007 · 07-14-2018, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Dirk has to start. Otherwise he won’t be warmed up enough. Even 5 minutes on the bench, he’s said that he gets stiff and that makes him prone to injury. That’s kinda the thing with being old

Nah, it can be done. Delay his warm up time.. put him on a bike.. he sits then comes back in already so it's a myth or convenient excuse to say there are no ways around that. Not saying its absolutely best to have him 6th man but it can be done

SMC0007 · 07-14-2018, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I think we’re arguing two different definitions of the word “starter” here... Some people look at it as the guy who actually starts the game, whereas others look at it as the guy who gets the most minutes at the position — it’s the old JET-Stevenson debate, except Dirk is basically Stevenson in this scenario.

This.. goes exactly to my point about defensive tone being a priority, paired with a bigger punch off the bench. Its exactly what helped win our ship.

SMC0007 · 07-14-2018, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So you're saying the starting lineup will be DJ/Dirk/Barnes/Doncic/Smith? I'll believe it when I see it because that is an absolute disaster on defense.

Yea. I have a feeling that is our default until proven otherwise.. but as much as they should start the season with Dirk on the bench then if necessary change him to starter.

Me.B · 07-14-2018, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I really can't see a scenario where Dirk starts. And honestly, I think he'll voluntarily come off the bench.

Exactly. Maybe some here haven’t realized but Dirk is not the same 25-30 ppg player he used to be. At this point in his career he’s lucky to put up 15-17 a game. He’s also a huge liability on defense and on the boards. We all love Dirk but he’s not the same player and really is best suited for coming off the bench. He’s not a guy that’s going to give you 30 min a night anymore. I expect he’ll average about 15-20 min a game this season with the occasional 25 min game. If a good bulk of those minutes are coming at the end of the game as a closer that means he likely won’t be starting many games unless it’s as a ceremonial starter.

Me.B · 07-14-2018, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Dirk has to start. Otherwise he won’t be warmed up enough. Even 5 minutes on the bench, he’s said that he gets stiff and that makes him prone to injury. That’s kinda the thing with being old

That really is the only reason Dirk should be starting. They could also do what they used to do with JET. Have him ride the exercise bike until it’s time for him to check in. I have no doubt that will figure out a way to stay warm.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-14-2018, 07:25 PM

Until RC says Dirk is coming off the bench I'm going to assume he's starting. Dirk has already said he was open to coming off the bench, he said it would be difficult given the whole stiff situation EL brought up but he was open to anything that would help the team. However, when the same question was brought to RC he flatly said, as far as he was concerned Dirk will always start as long as he(RC) is here(as coach). And the only lineup I see where Dirk comes off the bench, in the event he does say it, has Barnes at the 4 not Powell. Because I really don't think Powell can shoot. He's had several years to show he can and he clearly isn't even showing he can in practice or else RC would have tried to play him at the 4 more last year. The fact he hasn't really tells me all I need to know about his jumper. Maybe he makes a quantum leap this year but I doubt it.

NeedlesKane · 07-14-2018, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Center - Jordan (100%)/Powell (95%)/Mejri (100%)
Power Forward - Dirk (62%) /Barnes (56%)/ Kleber (72%)
Small Forward - Wes (68%) /DFS (50%)/ Broekhoff (*)
Shooting Guard - Doncic (*) / Yogi (73%)
Point Guard - DSJ (80%) /Barea (100%) /Brunson (*)

G-League - Motley/ Kostas

I still count 14. Who am I missing?

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like some assumptions are being made. I thought the Mavericks had not signed Maxi Kleber, Dirk Nowitzki, Dorian Finney-Smith, Yogi Ferrell, or Jalen Brunson yet. Also did the Mavericks sign Johnathan Motley to a one or two season deal last year? I don't remember seeing the details anywhere.

I really feel like all of these players will be Mavericks next season so that may be what you're going with in your post, but I just didn't think it was official yet.

Me.B · 07-14-2018, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like some assumptions are being made. I thought the Mavericks had not signed Maxi Kleber, Dirk Nowitzki, Dorian Finney-Smith, Yogi Ferrell, or Jalen Brunson yet. Also did the Mavericks sign Johnathan Motley to a one or two season deal last year? I don't remember seeing the details anywhere.

I really feel like all of these players will be Mavericks next season so that may be what you're going with in your post, but I just didn't think it was official yet.

I believe Motley was signed to a 2 year 2-way deal.

Underdog · 07-14-2018, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like some assumptions are being made. I thought the Mavericks had not signed Maxi Kleber, Dirk Nowitzki, Dorian Finney-Smith, Yogi Ferrell, or Jalen Brunson yet. Also did the Mavericks sign Johnathan Motley to a one or two season deal last year? I don't remember seeing the details anywhere.

I really feel like all of these players will be Mavericks next season so that may be what you're going with in your post, but I just didn't think it was official yet.

The FO has already said they intend to sign Yogi and Dirk, Brunson is assumed, Kleiber and DFS are non-guaranteed (either can be waived), and Motley signed a two year 2-way (although he can easily be waived as well)... So you're correct that none of these guys are *official* yet.

thewizard · 07-14-2018, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like some assumptions are being made. I thought the Mavericks had not signed Maxi Kleber, Dirk Nowitzki, Dorian Finney-Smith, Yogi Ferrell, or Jalen Brunson yet. Also did the Mavericks sign Johnathan Motley to a one or two season deal last year? I don't remember seeing the details anywhere.

I really feel like all of these players will be Mavericks next season so that may be what you're going with in your post, but I just didn't think it was official yet.

Maxi and DFS are under contract, just non-guaranteed. DFS became guaranteed on July 5th. Maxi becomes guaranteed tomorrow the 15th if he isn't waived. Motley is still on a two way. Two way contracts are for 2 years unless the player is waived or converted to a full contract. It's why Jalen Jones had to be waived in order to sign Kostas. Those guys were technically still on two way contracts.

However, you are correct that Dirk and Yogi are still technically free agents and Brunson hasn't signed his rookie contract.

Underdog · 07-15-2018, 04:56 AM

Okay, so we can have anywhere from 1-5 roster spots available (Brunson & Yogi haven't inked contracts yet, DFS & Kleiber could easily be waived, I'm not including Dirk in this discussion) -- the following players are still technically free agents... Who do we fill that last roster spot with? Do we bump any of our guys to make room for someone else?

@KeithSmithNBA: Remaining FA PGs:
R. Arcidiacono
A. Brooks
L. Brown
M. Chalmers
M. Delaney
K. Felder
Y. Ferrell
T. Frazier
J. Gibson
D. Harris
A. Ingram
J. Jack
D. Jackson
S. Larkin
T. Lawson
X. Munford (R)
J. Nelson
M. Paige
G. Payton II
R. Sessions
M. Smart (R)
J. Terry
D. Walton Jr
J. Young

@KeithSmithNBA: Remaining FA SGs:
A. Afflalo
J. Bird (R)
M. Brown (R)
V. Carter
P. Connaughton
C. Cooke
Jamal Crawford
Jordan Crawford
M. Doyle
PJ Dozier
M. Georges-Hunt
T. Graham
A. Harrison
D. Hilliard II (R)
R. Hood (R)
P. McCaw (R)
D. Nwaba
D. Wade
T. Wallace (R)
A. White
CJ Wilcox
N. Young

@KeithSmithNBA: Remaining FA SFs:
J. Artis
C. Brewer
A. Brown
B. Caboclo
D. Hamilton
D. House
J. Huestis
A. Jefferson
R. Jefferson
J. Johnson
M. Miller (R)
B. Moore
S. Muhammad
A. Peters

@KeithSmithNBA: Remaining FA PFs:
Q. Acy
L. Babbitt
M. Beasley
T. Booker
N. Collison (retiring)
J. Cooley
M. Costello
D. Cunningham
M. Harrell (R)
U. Haslem
E. McCree
C. McCullough
J. Mickey
D. Nowitzki
N. Vonleh
T. Wear
J. Webb III

@KeithSmithNBA: Remaining FA Centers:
T. Black
C. Capela (R)
J. Lauvergne
A. Len
M. Mathiang
G. Monroe
L. Nogueira
J. Okafor
M. Plumee (R)
M. Speights

MFFL · 07-15-2018, 10:28 AM

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing Vince Carter one more time. He got along with the team, was a professional, and could score

EricaLubarsky · 07-15-2018, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Okay, so we can have anywhere from 1-5 roster spots available (Brunson & Yogi haven't inked contracts yet, DFS & Kleiber could easily be waived, I'm not including Dirk in this discussion)

Dirk - keep him. He has potential

Kleber - I'd take him over every FA out there. Dude was a rookie who came in and shot 50% and 30% from three and was a tremendous teammate. Whether he takes another step and make the argument to start or if he stays the same and becomes a Cardinal type, I dont care. I want him here.

Yogi - meh. Seems likable. Was one of our best shooters and scorers. Just can't run an offense so the majority of his minutes came at SG and that sounds like a really dumb idea to play a 6 footer for signficant minutes at the 2.

DFS - People hate him, but I think he could be instrumental if he is just 3/D and finishing broken plays. He also has great size at 6'8". It's funny that a lot of the same people that want him gone also complain about our lack of size. Dude can guard 2-3 positions and bring intensity (when healthy-- he wasnt last year but now he is).

rimrocker · 07-15-2018, 11:30 AM

Wouldn't mind Hood from that FA list. Talent wise would be a good fit but not sure he would be mentally.

SMC0007 · 07-15-2018, 11:52 AM

No one on that list causes any movement whatsoever.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-15-2018, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

DFS - People hate him, but I think he could be instrumental if he is just 3/D and finishing broken plays. He also has great size at 6'8". It's funny that a lot of the same people that want him gone also complain about our lack of size. Dude can guard 2-3 positions and bring intensity (when healthy-- he wasnt last year but now he is).

Right now though he's just "D" not "3/D". And he plays half of his time at the 4 so that great size isn't so great when he's at the 4. Especially considering he's worse than Barnes at grabbing boards. If he shows improvement in preseason then that's great but the small sample of last year and the tiny example of lolsummer league was that he hasn't improved.

I think what actually drove me crazier with DFS than his poor shooting was that some games he was invisible. He can play 17-18 mins and shoot 1-2 shots. I just struggle to believe that as much as we predicate space and movement that he can only put up 2 shots in a 15-17min span. Or sometimes he would play 20-30 mins and put up 6-7 shots. If it's in the flow and he's passing up a decent shot for a better shot that's great but we have been pretty shitty offensively for 2 years, I find it hard to believe he passed up a shot for a better shot and more likely that he just plain passes up shots because he isn't confident taking them.

PER is pretty overrated in a lot of regards but it does at least show when someone is contributing to the box score. So his defense won't show up, but as it pertains to him being invisible... he has a PER of below 8. As a rookie he played in 80+ games and only managed to have a PER higher than a handful of dudes who were here to play 6 games or less. Like a dude named Ben Bentil. And last year in the small sample he had nearly an identical PER as his rookie season and managed to somehow be beaten by Collinsworth at basically anything stat related, including defensive metrics. About the only 2 things he beat Collinsworth at were points per 36, by a whopping 2 and TS%. He finished 20th out of 24 players who suited up for us for at least a game in his rookie season in PER. And he finished 18th of 23 last year. That's pretty God awful IMO. I'm not saying we cut some players who were better simply because of PER, but I am saying he can only get away with contributing this little if he is an absolute lock down defender, and he's not IMO, not even close rly.

Melonhead · 07-15-2018, 03:04 PM

Hood or Beasley would help supplement scoring.

Have a feeling we will overpay for Yogi for no reason

NeedlesKane · 07-15-2018, 03:59 PM

The Yogi comments remind me of the J.J. comments I read before we won the NBA title. We even let J.J. go after our championship season. They are very similar players. I feel like we need to keep Yogi right now because he's a bargain right now. I hate the idea of having garbage players surrounding 1 or 2 superstars. Yogi is far from a garbage player. He was our best rated defensive player last year, and he is a good offensive player. We need to keep him around as long as we can, especially when we can do it for around $2 to 2.5 million per season. I think that's pretty much what we'll be doing.

tap2390 · 07-15-2018, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

The Yogi comments remind me of the J.J. comments I read before we won the NBA title. We even let J.J. go after our championship season. They are very similar players. I feel like we need to keep Yogi right now because he's a bargain right now. I hate the idea of having garbage players surrounding 1 or 2 superstars. Yogi is far from a garbage player. He was our best rated defensive player last year, and he is a good offensive player. We need to keep him around as long as we can, especially when we can do it for around $2 to 2.5 million per season. I think that's pretty much what we'll be doing.

By what metric?

Underdog · 07-15-2018, 08:19 PM

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Originally Posted by tap2390

By what metric?

Baro-metric... Yogi put the pressure on.

dirt_dobber · 07-16-2018, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Baro-metric... Yogi put the pressure on.

Line of the year nominee.

EricaLubarsky · 07-16-2018, 09:08 AM

67 days until camp

SMC0007 · 07-16-2018, 09:42 AM

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Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

67 days until camp

Don't you fn Dare start this now!

MFFL · 07-16-2018, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

By what metric?

According to the advanced metrics, Dirk was a better defender than Matthews

https://stats.nba.com/players/defens...mID=1610612742

Me.B · 07-16-2018, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

According to the advanced metrics, Dirk was a better defender than Matthews

https://stats.nba.com/players/defens...mID=1610612742

That’s exactly what you can’t just look at stats. You have to actually watch the games. Dirk is f’ing horrible on defense. He has almost no lateral movement. Wes is not the same player he was before his injury but you just have to watch the games to tell he’s a better defender than Dirk. Dirk might literally be the worst defender in the NBA. Even he would tell you that.

SMC0007 · 07-16-2018, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me.B

That’s exactly what you can’t just look at stats. You have to actually watch the games. Dirk is f’ing horrible on defense. He has almost no lateral movement. Wes is not the same player he was before his injury but you just have to watch the games to tell he’s a better defender than Dirk. Dirk might literally be the worst defender in the NBA. Even he would tell you that.

His only defensive weapon is the swipe.

MavzMan · 07-16-2018, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

His only defensive weapon is the swipe.

The dreaded, finger jamming Karl Malone swipe.

Me.B · 07-16-2018, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

The dreaded, finger jamming Karl Malone swipe.

There were a couple of times where it appeared Malone nearly separated Dirk’s shoulder with that swipe move.

EricaLubarsky · 07-16-2018, 05:07 PM

Brunson officially inks 3+ TO deal

MFFL · 07-16-2018, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me.B

That’s exactly what you can’t just look at stats. You have to actually watch the games. Dirk is f’ing horrible on defense. He has almost no lateral movement. Wes is not the same player he was before his injury but you just have to watch the games to tell he’s a better defender than Dirk. Dirk might literally be the worst defender in the NBA. Even he would tell you that.

Don't LOOK at the stats - understand the stats.

Dirk is an effective defensive rebounder which is a stat that some people overlook but is important. Yeah Dirk might not have the lateral movement but he's smart and he puts himself in position to challenge the shot. And then he gets the rebound if they miss. That's defense.

Matthews is terrible at everything. I watch the games and I cringe every time Matthews is on the court. He can't rebound (he gets a rebound every 10.9 minutes - by comparison the tiny Yogi gets a rebound every 9.2 minutes).

So yeah I would cut Matthews in a heartbeat.

tap2390 · 07-16-2018, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

Don't LOOK at the stats - understand the stats.

Dirk is an effective defensive rebounder which is a stat that some people overlook but is important. Yeah Dirk might not have the lateral movement but he's smart and he puts himself in position to challenge the shot. And then he gets the rebound if they miss. That's defense.

Matthews is terrible at everything. I watch the games and I cringe every time Matthews is on the court. He can't rebound (he gets a rebound every 10.9 minutes - by comparison the tiny Yogi gets a rebound every 9.2 minutes).

So yeah I would cut Matthews in a heartbeat.

Dirk is a viable defensive rebounder. He grabs 25.2% of available defensive rebounds, about the same rate as Salah. Other than that, Dirk is horrid on defense. He can't guard the perimeter which will be a necessity if he's going to be playing the 4. While he is OK on the inside, he committed 101 shooting fouls (the worst on the team by more than 15). All in all, Dirk is definitely a negative defender, especially when paired with DeAndre forcing one of the two to the perimeter.

tap2390 · 07-17-2018, 08:00 AM

Word is that Khris Middleton is available as the Bucks have failed to reach an extension for him. Does something like:

Wes, Brunson, and Kleber

for

Middleton & Delly

appeal to anyone?

saclare · 07-17-2018, 12:29 PM

Middleton would be a nice addition. What's his defense look like?

SMC0007 · 07-17-2018, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Middleton would be a nice addition. What's his defense look like?

Similar to Barnes. Not a lockdown defender but serviceable. He can shoot it tho and has great size. I'd do that trade yesterday, but Mil wouldn't.