2017 NBA Draft

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BigDog63

Exactly. Meaning it's not worth a bad contract. Maybe a 10 pick. MAYBE. or even a bit lower in this draft. But not 20.

Yeah, I'd take on a bad contract to move up from #9 to the top-5, but I don't see any reason to do so for a #20 pick... You take 1 step back to take 2 steps forward, not the other way around.

[EricaLubarsky]

20 days

[Bryan_Wilson]

Well I consider Wes and Turner to both be black holes in terms of their production vs contract. So I'm not looking at whether Wes is better or not because neither is good at the end of the day and since we aren't a contender that part means very little to me. So for me, I'm just looking at the mock and looking at the contract. And to me I'd absolutely pay 1 year longer on a bad contract for some of those guys listed at 18-30.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Well I consider Wes and Turner to both be black holes in terms of their production vs contract. So I'm not looking at whether Wes is better or not because neither is good at the end of the day and since we aren't a contender that part means very little to me. So for me, I'm just looking at the mock and looking at the contract. And to me I'd absolutely pay 1 year longer on a bad contract for some of those guys listed at 18-30.

Yep. Plus we could always use that 20 pick to potentially move up 2-3 spots into 5-7 range. Love the idea of getting a Monk, DSJ, or Jackson.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

And to me I'd absolutely pay 1 year longer on a bad contract for some of those guys listed at 18-30.

I could make the "devil I know vs. the devil I don't" argument here, but what I really want to know is who would you take at #20? Because I don't really see anyone who jumps out as a possible difference-maker...

And don't get me wrong, I'm all about trading Wes -- but I'd rather not take back an even worse contract to do it... Give me players or give me picks, but don't make me eat salary to get rid of a mouthful of salary.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I could make the "devil I know vs. the devil I don't" argument here, but what I really want to know is who would you take at #20? Because I don't really see anyone who jumps out as a possible difference-maker...

And don't get me wrong, I'm all about trading Wes -- but I'd rather not take back an even worse contract to do it... Give me players or give me picks, but don't make me eat salary to get rid of a mouthful of salary.

Well some Mocks have some of these guys going 12 and others 22. And even worse are guys like Bacon going from 26-50. But If Mitchell was there I'd take him and run home ecstatic. I'd take the home run swing at Giles. I'd Take Kennard and Jackson there happily also. I have not looked at those pf's/c's and stuff for obvious reasons but I'm sure there are some there I'd take also.

[rimrocker]

It really comes down to the available/achievable FA at 18mil in 2020 vs the 20th pick now and how he develops by then.
Really a toss-up as far as I'm concerned but that would give us 3 years of putting together a team that might attract a FA or the timing of Turner's expiring should be a decent trade asset to get us a missing piece at a time when this team should be on the verge of contention.

IDK...it just seems the only way we are going to add picks are to take on some bad contracts or move a guy like Curry and this might be our best opportunity to do something like that considering the depth of this draft.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Well some Mocks have some of these guys going 12 and others 22. And even worse are guys like Bacon going from 26-50. But If Mitchell was there I'd take him and run home ecstatic. I'd take the home run swing at Giles. I'd Take Kennard and Jackson there happily also. I have not looked at those pf's/c's and stuff for obvious reasons but I'm sure there are some there I'd take also.

I think we are thinking the same because if we could come out of this draft with Ntilikina and Mitchell I'd say we have our backcourt for the next decade (including Yogi) and I don't think it gets much better than that defensively. I'd also love to trade Curry/Mejri to OKC for #21 if they would do it and take Giles.
What Mavs' fan couldn't get excited about a SL of Ntilinika/Mitchell/Barnes/Giles/Noel 2 years from now?

I can't say that I'm as high on Kennard as you are though but I could see him fitting our offense and being a Carlisle kind of guy.

[tap2390]

I'm slowly, but surely, on board with trading Curry, Wes, and anybody else on our team not named Harrison Barnes in the interest of tanking next season for the Michael Porter Jr. Sweepstakes. I think these NBA Finals have shown us you don't just need elite players to be competitive, you need several elite, HOF-worthy players. I don't think anybody here wants to be the 8th seed just to get swept by Golden State. I completely understand the draft is a crapshoot, and obviously this strategy has not worked for the 76ers. We are between a rock and a hard place.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I'm slowly, but surely, on board with trading Curry, Wes, and anybody else on our team not named Harrison Barnes in the interest of tanking next season for the Michael Porter Jr. Sweepstakes. I think these NBA Finals have shown us you don't just need elite players to be competitive, you need several elite, HOF-worthy players. I don't think anybody here wants to be the 8th seed just to get swept by Golden State. I completely understand the draft is a crapshoot, and obviously this strategy has not worked for the 76ers. We are between a rock and a hard place.

Nailed it. Investing into long term youth should be priorities 1 through 10. I think you keep a few cheap vets on the roster to help the children along, but otherwise there is really little reason to be attached to Curry or Wes. They aren't difference makers.

Curry has a chance to prove himself worthy next season, but I wouldn't hold my breath. He had a small hot streak in a losing season. And when his shots weren't falling, he was worthless. I certainly wouldn't pass on someone like Monk because of him.

The worst thing that can happen is for the FO to be unsure of what they want to do like last season. Making the playoffs to play GS in the first round is pointless.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I'm slowly, but surely, on board with trading Curry, Wes, and anybody else on our team not named Harrison Barnes in the interest of tanking next season for the Michael Porter Jr. Sweepstakes. I think these NBA Finals have shown us you don't just need elite players to be competitive, you need several elite, HOF-worthy players. I don't think anybody here wants to be the 8th seed just to get swept by Golden State. I completely understand the draft is a crapshoot, and obviously this strategy has not worked for the 76ers. We are between a rock and a hard place.

You bring up the proper analogy...the 76ers. They've had one of the top 3 picks for years now, and where are they? Tanking in the NBA doesn't work. It is too hard to determine who will the great NBA players be. It's like drafting a QB in the NFL. Even #1 picks fail far more often than they succeed.

The problem the Mavs are facing is of their own doing. They tanked the draft, and did so for years. So, they have no stockpile of decent, young NBA players to work from. Curry is one they have now. They should keep him. The chances of drafting someone even as good as he is is not that great.

The reality of today's NBA is that it is going to be almost impossible for any team to compete with Golden State, and totally impossible for any team that doesn't already have a superstar or two on their team already. But, Golden State is an example of how to get great. They did it through the draft, and not with a lot of very high picks. Houston, just down the road, is another example. They both valued the draft. The Mavs, under Cuban, haven't. They preferred to pick up known quantities as free agents. Which is great to add to a core, not so great to create one. You need a core to build around. Harrison Barnes could well be part of that core, but he isn't it alone. I would think the core would be Barnes/Noel/Curry. Not a superstar in the group, but not a bad core. Then they need to make every draft pick for the next few years count. Look at Houston. They acquired a ton of picks, many in the second round, and acquired a lot of assets with the players they drafted. These players either contributed to the Rockets, or became valuable trade commodities themselves.

To start to grasp the depth of the Mavs failure in the drafting department, here is the list of all Mavs draft picks. It's pretty scary. How many of them even ring a bell now? Only a couple since Josh Howard are in the NBA anywhere. It is impossible to think of Mavs drafts as anything but total, abysmal failures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas..._draft_history

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The worst thing that can happen is for the FO to be unsure of what they want to do like last season. Making the playoffs to play GS in the first round is pointless.

But the FO IS unsure. I'm not even sure they want to draft good players (that hasn't been their strategy in the past).

If making the playoffs is pointless...then playing the games at all is pointless. The Mavs (or anybody else in the NBA) isn't going to compete with GS for a while. And you need a core to build around. The 76ers have tried tanking to build that core...how's that working out? You think they wouldn't relish being the playoffs for once? How do you get that core? You build a team that gets into the playoffs every year, and then you add to it.

Sadly, I think the Mavs are in for a fairly long period of limited success. As much as Mavs fans love Dirk now, I think they won't really appreciate him until he's gone. He allowed them to have a single player as their core. Players like that are very very rare, and the Mavs aren't likely to find another one any time soon. Building back up is a long term process, based on acquiring as many assets as possible through the draft. Something the Mavs have no track record at succeeding at. Those assets could come from anywhere in the draft...we don't need to tank to acquire them. We need to stop sucking at making draft picks.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by BigDog63

But the FO IS unsure. I'm not even sure they want to draft good players (that hasn't been their strategy in the past).

If making the playoffs is pointless...then playing the games at all is pointless. The Mavs (or anybody else in the NBA) isn't going to compete with GS for a while. And you need a core to build around. The 76ers have tried tanking to build that core...how's that working out? You think they wouldn't relish being the playoffs for once? How do you get that core? You build a team that gets into the playoffs every year, and then you add to it.

Sadly, I think the Mavs are in for a fairly long period of limited success. As much as Mavs fans love Dirk now, I think they won't really appreciate him until he's gone. He allowed them to have a single player as their core. Players like that are very very rare, and the Mavs aren't likely to find another one any time soon. Building back up is a long term process, based on acquiring as many assets as possible through the draft. Something the Mavs have no track record at succeeding at. Those assets could come from anywhere in the draft...we don't need to tank to acquire them. We need to stop sucking at making draft picks.

The 76'ers have also been unlucky with injuries- something you can't plan for. I think everyone can agree they have a bright future with Embid, Simmons, Saric, and their pick this year.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

It's hilarious that one poorly mismanaged team somehow equates to "shouldn't do the youth movement." The 76ers are their own cluster and yes injuries play a big part with them. I never said we should tank indefinitely, but the Mavs are bad and don't have many valuable assets. They TRIED to make the playoffs last season and couldn't. All that did was cost them a few valuable spaces in the draft. We were all talking about getting Fultz or Smith Jr in November/December, and now it's more like Frank or Collins.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

It's hilarious that one poorly mismanaged team somehow equates to "shouldn't do the youth movement." The 76ers are their own cluster and yes injuries play a big part with them. I never said we should tank indefinitely, but the Mavs are bad and don't have many valuable assets. They TRIED to make the playoffs last season and couldn't. All that did was cost them a few valuable spaces in the draft. We were all talking about getting Fultz or Smith Jr in November/December, and now it's more like Frank or Collins.

When it comes to drafting, the Mavs ARE a mismanaged team. It's funny that everyone keeps forgetting that.

The 76ers didn't think they'd have to tank indefinitely either. But, there they are, years later, still tanking.

One year isn't going to do it. Depending on how that one years pick works out, or maybe does not, it may not even help at all. It isn't a successful strategy in the NBA. Drafting NBA players, particularly when not in the top 3, is a lot like drafting a QB in the NFL. You get more failures than successes. Plus, when you're trying to be bad, you will probably succeed. Finally, I have no interest in watching a bad team. Who does?

Now, as I pointed out, look at a well managed team, and where they got in the draft: Golden State. Did they tank to get there? Or did they just make good picks with the picks they had? Houston is another example, just down the road. You don't get better by tanking. You get better by stop sucking when drafting...wherever you draft.

[Bryan_Wilson]

There is a giant difference in making the playoffs with a core worth keeping and scraping together wins to make the playoffs with a roster like ours. I'm not in favor of 76ers style tanking where you draft injured players and play young players limited minutes and play washed up players to assure losses. But I am in favor of making smart value signings like Aminu, Curry, Yogi, DFS and cashing in when their value is up while letting young players try to win games.

If we did not have the injuries we had Curry would not have the value he has. He would have been buried behind the minutes of Dwill, Harris, Wes, and JJ. We probably don't sign Yogi either. If we had made the playoffs and traded for Noel we wouldn't have our first also and Noel would be considered our draft pick. Then this off season would be about how much should we invest in Dwill and where is the long term pg after him without a draft pick. There are tons of variables and we have no way of knowing what we would have done if we had not been injured and lost so many games to start the year but I do know Cuban said they moved on from Bogut and Williams to open up minutes for the young players. That would not have happened for sure.

Making the playoffs with a core is great and I'm all for it. Barnes, Noel, Yogi, Curry, and DFS is not a core. And if we make the playoffs it will be by the usual way, playing every vet as many minutes as their body can handle and the young players getting what's left. And if the young player makes a mistake then we will stretch vets even further and go super small if need be because wins wins wins baby. No thanks.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by BigDog63

When it comes to drafting, the Mavs ARE a mismanaged team. It's funny that everyone keeps forgetting that.

The 76ers didn't think they'd have to tank indefinitely either. But, there they are, years later, still tanking.

One year isn't going to do it. Depending on how that one years pick works out, or maybe does not, it may not even help at all. It isn't a successful strategy in the NBA. Drafting NBA players, particularly when not in the top 3, is a lot like drafting a QB in the NFL. You get more failures than successes. Plus, when you're trying to be bad, you will probably succeed. Finally, I have no interest in watching a bad team. Who does?

Now, as I pointed out, look at a well managed team, and where they got in the draft: Golden State. Did they tank to get there? Or did they just make good picks with the picks they had? Houston is another example, just down the road. You don't get better by tanking. You get better by stop sucking when drafting...wherever you draft.

Ok, well in this draft, picking 3-7 would be better than 9. And the Mavs had that kinda pick until they went on a misguided run to try and make the playoffs. I agree that the Mavs need to draft better, but position still matters.

And once again, they weren't good enough to make the playoffs so watching a bad team was inevitable.

Mavs have Barnes and Noel as a start and have to build off of them as core pieces.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Mavs have Barnes and Noel as a start and have to build off of them as core pieces.

Yes, that sounds about right. Curry is potentially in that group, depends on what the alternatives are. You have to build around something. For this roster, those sound like the players.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I'm slowly, but surely, on board with trading Curry, Wes, and anybody else on our team not named Harrison Barnes in the interest of tanking next season for the Michael Porter Jr. Sweepstakes. I think these NBA Finals have shown us you don't just need elite players to be competitive, you need several elite, HOF-worthy players. I don't think anybody here wants to be the 8th seed just to get swept by Golden State. I completely understand the draft is a crapshoot, and obviously this strategy has not worked for the 76ers. We are between a rock and a hard place.

Sure fire way to lose every fan to start throwing away season after season in hopes of the next great hope. Just because teams cant match up with GS doesnt mean all teams should throw away and tank.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by BPo001

The 76'ers have also been unlucky with injuries- something you can't plan for. I think everyone can agree they have a bright future with Embid, Simmons, Saric, and their pick this year.

They probably do...but how long have they been picking very high draft picks now? and when will they actually see success from it? Seems like 5 years or more. Is that what everyone has in mind for the Mavs? Five years of tanking, to maybe start to have a bright future?

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by BigDog63

They probably do...but how long have they been picking very high draft picks now? and when will they actually see success from it? Seems like 5 years or more. Is that what everyone has in mind for the Mavs? Five years of tanking, to maybe start to have a bright future?

I definitely don't like the word tank and I certainly don't think trying to win with youth is a tanking strategy. I think the main focus should be on building a foundation first and some of us don't see Curry and Wes as part of a foundation. We'd rather build with guys younger than Barnes than older.
I see Wes and Curry as nice role players on a championship caliber team and by the time we are anywhere near contenders they will be exiting their prime (if Wes hasn't already).

If the strategy is to win with Curry and Wes we might as well trade our pick for a proven vet because a guy like Ntilikina, and most likely anyone we draft at #9, will take several years to develop.

[Underdog]

Why are you guys lumping Wes and Curry together?

Matthews is a guy who provides very little for our future, easily the most expendable player on our squad, given his salary + production... If there's anybody you want to get rid of, he's it. He just doesn't have a place on this team going forward, and Cuban should have urged him to back out of his contract once the DeAndra deal went tits-up... But he could still provide value to a veteran team gunning for a ring. If anything, the possibility of repeated GSW vs CLE Finals might make some playoff teams even more desperate to get a guy with his skillset (defense, leadership) -- anything to move the needle forward. Really, any deal that sends his salary out without taking another bad contract in return is a good deal.

Seth, on the other hand, is only 26 years old, definitely a guy we can build on for the future... The ONLY reason you consider trading him is if you don't think you can afford to keep him after his contract is up (or if we happen to draft a SG), so you get something now rather than letting him walk for nothing. Otherwise he's exactly the kind of player we need -- a guy who is on the cusp of peaking, someone who can provide some leadership as the Mavs move forward with life after Dirk... The only way I'd deal Seth is if he was packaged with Wes and/or Powell, and the return was either a borderline All-Star or a high pick. Otherwise we're better off keeping him, and should have no problem affording his next contract if we unload Wes.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Why are you guys lumping Wes and Curry together?

Matthews is a guy who provides very little for our future, easily the most expendable player on our squad, given his salary + production... If there's anybody you want to get rid of, he's it. He just doesn't have a place on this team going forward, and Cuban should have urged him to back out of his contract once the DeAndra deal went tits-up... But he could still provide value to a veteran team gunning for a ring. If anything, the possibility of repeated GSW vs CLE Finals might make some playoff teams even more desperate to get a guy with his skillset (defense, leadership) -- anything to move the needle forward. Really, any deal that sends his salary out without taking another bad contract in return is a good deal.

Seth, on the other hand, is only 26 years old, definitely a guy we can build on for the future... The ONLY reason you consider trading him is if you don't think you can afford to keep him after his contract is up (or if we happen to draft a SG), so you get something now rather than letting him walk for nothing. Otherwise he's exactly the kind of player we need -- a guy who is on the cusp of peaking, someone who can provide some leadership as the Mavs move forward with life after Dirk... The only way I'd deal Seth is if he was packaged with Wes and/or Powell, and the return was either a borderline All-Star or a high pick. Otherwise we're better off keeping him, and should have no problem affording his next contract if we unload Wes.

I have no problem keeping Curry if we can afford him but I'm not sure we can move Wes that easily without taking back some kind of contract or including a useful or future asset. I have a feeling we are stuck with Wes and Powell until they are expirings so I'm afraid we will lose Curry for nothing.

If we can move Wes to create room for Seth I'm all for it but just don't see it happening. We probably differ a little in the rebuild effort though because I prefer the majority of our roster to be younger than Barnes and feel it is kinda pointless to try to build a team that can compete for a championship in the next few years.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I have no problem keeping Curry if we can afford him but I'm not sure we can move Wes that easily without taking back some kind of contract or including a useful or future asset. I have a feeling we are stuck with Wes and Powell until they are expirings so I'm afraid we will lose Curry for nothing.

If we can move Wes to create room for Seth I'm all for it but just don't see it happening. We probably differ a little in the rebuild effort though because I prefer the majority of our roster to be younger than Barnes and feel it is kinda pointless to try to build a team that can compete for a championship in the next few years.

Yep, we definitely differ in our opinions there because the Sixers have already proven that you only have the length of a rookie contract to start making some hay or else guys are just going to walk (and if you have nothing but rookies, you're never going to contend)... Basically you'll be stuck in a Seth Curry scenario year after year.

You have to get a bit of traction, mix your draft picks with a few guys who are set to pop... Like the Celtics.

[Robillion]

I've been catching up on the past 4 pages, and shocked at how many people are discounting Curry... The Mavs took a chance on Curry and he is already a total steal. If it wasn't for his injuries, slow start, and being behind a few guys to start in the rotation, he could've averaged 16+. And I fully expect him to average more than that next season and provide solid defense. I see him becoming prime Jason Terry, with better defense. Maybe this is being hopeful, but I don't see how you don't have some belief this could happen after watching his improvement through the year and his growth in confidence.

You don't trade away a talent like Curry because you are afraid we can't gather the money for him. You wait and see if he does make that jump this coming season, and then do whatever you have to do to keep him. I surely wouldn't complain if we have to trade Wes/Powell away to keep him... Nash didn't just leave for nothing. Cuban LET him leave. Cuban and the Mavs shouldn't make the same mistake (not to equate Curry with prime Steve Nash, you get what I mean.)

As for Wes, I could see Portland being very interested in trading one of their first rounders for him. They would obviously try to shed some salary in the process, and that is where the Mavs may say no. But, maybe switching multiple "bad" contracts could help both sides...

Turner - 4 years, 16.4mil
Ezeli - 2 years, 7.4 mil
1st rounder

for

Wes - 3 years, 17.1 mil
Powell - 4 years, 8.3 mil


Turner/Ezeli gave Portland nothing-to-very little last year but took up $23.8 mil in cap space. The bigger contract comes off the books 1 year sooner with Wes than with Turner, Wes fit much better with Portland than he has with the Mavs, and they get a young talent they hope can grow him them in Powell - overall seems like a talent/situation improvement for Portland.

The Mavs replace $25.4 mil per year salary with $23.8, opening up $1.6mil right away. But, Ezeli becomes an unrestricted FA in summer of 2018, opening up another $7.4. So, there is $9mil to go towards Curry, not considering any other money that may open up/cap increases by then.

If Curry can hit a new level next season, he will be worth investing in and will still be young enough to be producing at a high level for years to come. He is the Free Agent get in a similar way Nerlens will be this summer.

It is too early to say that Barnes/Curry/Noel could not be a great core. If these three can improve and move further towards their ceiling then the Mavs get lucky on a couple first rounders over the next few years, then anything can happen. It doesn't have to be a loong rebuild, and 2011 proved you don't have to have a super team to win.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yep, we definitely differ in our opinions there because the Sixers have already proven that you only have the length of a rookie contract to start making some hay or else guys are just going to walk (and if you have nothing but rookies, you're never going to contend)... Basically you'll be stuck in a Seth Curry scenario year after year.

You have to get a bit of traction, mix your draft picks with a few guys who are set to pop... Like the Celtics.

I'm not sure I like the Sixers example because they went strictly BPA and drafted centers 3 years in a row which gave them absolutely no chance of building any kind of chemistry so that was stupidity on their part imo. But I do understand your point and don't necessarily disagree.

Where I'm coming from is that Barnes/Curry aren't that much younger than Steph/Green/Klay/Durant and I don't see that core breaking up anytime soon so I don't see why we'd make an all-out effort to try to compete with that. I'd rather reload with younger players and compete with the teams with next generation stars who are in their early 20s.

And we seem to disagree on Seth's ceiling because I don't see him as becoming much more than a starter quality SG on a borderline PO team or a nice bench player on a championship caliber team.
I hope he proves me wrong if we keep him but I just don't see it.

If we had a clear cut superstar in their mid-20s I'd be right there with you to do whatever it takes to keep Curry but honestly I don't even see a future all-star on this current roster.

[EricaLubarsky]

What happens if the drama surrounding Ball causes him to plummet and he's there at #9?

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

What happens if the drama surrounding Ball causes him to plummet and he's there at #9?

Take him and let Cuban handle the LaVar drama unless Smith or Isaac are still on the board with him.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Robillion

I've been catching up on the past 4 pages, and shocked at how many people are discounting Curry... The Mavs took a chance on Curry and he is already a total steal. If it wasn't for his injuries, slow start, and being behind a few guys to start in the rotation, he could've averaged 16+. And I fully expect him to average more than that next season and provide solid defense. I see him becoming prime Jason Terry, with better defense. Maybe this is being hopeful, but I don't see how you don't have some belief this could happen after watching his improvement through the year and his growth in confidence.

I would love for u to be right but I just don't see it. He isn't aggressive enough to take a huge leap as a scorer to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXNbN4KHyuY
at 2:20 - "Seth let's the game come to him, Stephen attacks the game". Now I'm in no way saying it's bad to let the game come to you. But I just don't think the ceiling is very high for someone like Seth. He's undersized at the 2, can only play the 1 in spurts IMO, and limited athletically. I believe he's never going to be much more than a guy who spaces the floor and plays above average defense. I don't think he has the scorer's mentality to be a 6th man either. So while there is a small chance he could suddenly at age 27 change his whole mentality and become a guy who attacks a defense and looks for ways to get his shot off, I think he could be a guy like Wes(before he was broken) on offense, if he has someone like Lillard and prime LMA with him, but nowhere close on defense.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

What happens if the drama surrounding Ball causes him to plummet and he's there at #9?

Honestly I'm so sour on Lavar Ball and so convinced he'd be talking to the media on his own treadmill right next to Cuban that I'd be looking to trade that pick to someone else unless someone else we love is there.

Edit-
Also the more I watch Lonzo Ball the more I just really think he's overrated as hell. I really think his shot is so low and he himself does not have good quickness/speed that I don't think he can get his shot off consistently or well in the NBA. I'd honestly take DSJ and Fox 100% over him.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

What happens if the drama surrounding Ball causes him to plummet and he's there at #9?

He won't drop to 9, but if the Lakers don't select him, then it will be a very interesting draft.

I'd take Fox over him regardless of his father. Might even take DSJ. Ball has a chance to be a big bust. People don't talk about it because of attention whore Lavar the king, but we have already discussed it here months ago.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

What happens if the drama surrounding Ball causes him to plummet and he's there at #9?

If he's there at #9 it's because all the better options came off the board already... Pretty much gotta take him -- his upside is still a lot higher than anyone ranked in the 10-20 range (more so than Zach Collins, Lauri Markkanen, Justin Jackson, or Donovan Mitchell).

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I'm slowly, but surely, on board with trading Curry, Wes, and anybody else on our team not named Harrison Barnes in the interest of tanking next season for the Michael Porter Jr. Sweepstakes. I think these NBA Finals have shown us you don't just need elite players to be competitive, you need several elite, HOF-worthy players. I don't think anybody here wants to be the 8th seed just to get swept by Golden State. I completely understand the draft is a crapshoot, and obviously this strategy has not worked for the 76ers. We are between a rock and a hard place.

How can we possibly be that bad. This past season(and especially post championship when Dirk was hurt aka the Year of Mike James) were the times to tank hard. We had one of the worst records in the league to start this season. A year of continuity and healthy Dirk plus Noel, Barnes, Wes, Seth, Yogi draft pick and maybe halfway decent guy with our exception guarantees middle of the pack. Maybe even 7 or 8 seed to get swept. More likely low lottery like pick 10-14. The MBT can't seem to get out of their own way when it comes to this stuff. They didn't recognize their potential Kawhi(Paul George if you believe the Roddy rumors or Giannis)and the window is shut.

I understand wanting to win especially with Dirk. These guys work hard and they have pride. But look no further than San Antonio to see how it's done. Opportunistic tank. Put a superstar next to your older star. Pour resources into scouting and draft. Draft foreign and stash. Draft to fit guys into your system. Player development. Sell high even on a guy you love(George Hill for Kawhi)for a difference maker. MBT did some of that(Devin for Kidd). But Cuban has consistently looked for shortcuts. And hey, it got us a title! But Carlisle is stubborn. And Donnie is a yes man. And Dirk, like a lot of players and ex-players), maybe isn't a really good evaluator or judge of character? Who knows. I know it's easy and reductive to say simply "Be like Spurs!". I'm excited about his draft. But we could've easily been a few spots higher, at least. You need luck in the lottery and more balls means more shots at a lucky bounce and Fultz, etc.
I don't see any way, barring mass injuries, we get in the Porter Jr. range next year. Even season is possibly Dirk's possible farewell tour now. And Cuban knows that dudes the gravy train. Barring some major trade or FA signing(which isn't really even feasible even if we dump Wes)we are in for another long season and pick in the mid lottery. Doesn't mean it can't be fun. But we are far more likely to get the 8th seed or the 12th than #1

[AO41]

I don't watch College basketball, but hearing everyone talk about Ball's shot, I had to go look at some highlights. That is one of the strangest shots I have ever seen. Reminds me of the younger/ smaller kids at the park who had to chuck it up from that position. It could definitely be a problem in the NBA...but at the same time he seems to hit them well. So if guys can't figure out a way to block it low, he may be successful with it in the NBA.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by mac222b

How can we possibly be that bad. This past season(and especially post championship when Dirk was hurt aka the Year of Mike James) were the times to tank hard. We had one of the worst records in the league to start this season. A year of continuity and healthy Dirk plus Noel, Barnes, Wes, Seth, Yogi draft pick and maybe halfway decent guy with our exception guarantees middle of the pack. Maybe even 7 or 8 seed to get swept. More likely low lottery like pick 10-14. The MBT can't seem to get out of their own way when it comes to this stuff. They didn't recognize their potential Kawhi(Paul George if you believe the Roddy rumors or Giannis)and the window is shut.

I understand wanting to win especially with Dirk. These guys work hard and they have pride. But look no further than San Antonio to see how it's done. Opportunistic tank. Put a superstar next to your older star. Pour resources into scouting and draft. Draft foreign and stash. Draft to fit guys into your system. Player development. Sell high even on a guy you love(George Hill for Kawhi)for a difference maker. MBT did some of that(Devin for Kidd). But Cuban has consistently looked for shortcuts. And hey, it got us a title! But Carlisle is stubborn. And Donnie is a yes man. And Dirk, like a lot of players and ex-players), maybe isn't a really good evaluator or judge of character? Who knows. I know it's easy and reductive to say simply "Be like Spurs!". I'm excited about his draft. But we could've easily been a few spots higher, at least. You need luck in the lottery and more balls means more shots at a lucky bounce and Fultz, etc.
I don't see any way, barring mass injuries, we get in the Porter Jr. range next year. Even season is possibly Dirk's possible farewell tour now. And Cuban knows that dudes the gravy train. Barring some major trade or FA signing(which isn't really even feasible even if we dump Wes)we are in for another long season and pick in the mid lottery. Doesn't mean it can't be fun. But we are far more likely to get the 8th seed or the 12th than #1

That is the reason why I think we should move Curry and Wes for draft picks and garbage players/contracts (Singler and Turner in my scenario). We most likely would take a step backwards to be in the top 5 next draft while having one year to develop 3 players from this draft along with Noel, Brussino, DFS, Yogi and to some degree Barnes.
We may not get the number one pick but anyone in the top 4 should get a franchise player next season (Porter, Ayton, Bamba, Sexton) and there would be a decent chance we'd have a shot at one of them. But that opportunity goes down the tube if we stay in this perpetual mediocrity frame of mind by trying to win a few extra games with average players like Curry and Wes.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

That is the reason why I think we should move Curry and Wes for draft picks and garbage players/contracts (Singler and Turner in my scenario). We most likely would take a step backwards to be in the top 5 next draft while having one year to develop 3 players from this draft along with Noel, Brussino, DFS, Yogi and to some degree Barnes.
We may not get the number one pick but anyone in the top 4 should get a franchise player next season (Porter, Ayton, Bamba, Sexton) and there would be a decent chance we'd have a shot at one of them. But that opportunity goes down the tube if we stay in this perpetual mediocrity frame of mind by trying to win a few extra games with average players like Curry and Wes.

For me, Curry doesn't have to be moved. Only move him if you get a shot at a guy you love. Either by moving up in the lottery or securing another pick in the teens(say Mitchell or Jeanne etc is there and they think he's a future stud). With Wes- love the guys works ethic. But it's a business. And we can get a decent return for him- protected 1st nest season, pick 10-22 this season, pick and young player , swallowing a moderately bad contract etc just do it. He's not part of the future plans. Period. Any return for Wes within reason is a win.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

My top three realistic picks for the Mavs today:

1. Frank Ntilikina- Remember that Roddy was on the path to being a fringe star before his injuries killed his career. Frank's ceiling is higher, and he has better size.

2. Tony Mitchell- Trade back if you need to, but he is every bit as intriguing as Monk because of his slashing and defense.

3. Zach Collins- I really like this kid's attitude. He seems very focused and can only go up from where he is right now. Might not be a star, but he'll give 100% and be productive on any team he lands on.

[rimrocker]

Seems like Kennard is moving up in the mock drafts. I saw two that have him going 11 and a few others in the mid-teens.
Any ideas why???

God please no....hope we don't trade back for someone like him.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

My top three realistic picks for the Mavs today:

1. Frank Ntilikina- Remember that Roddy was on the path to being a fringe star before his injuries killed his career. Frank's ceiling is higher, and he has better size.

2. Tony Mitchell- Trade back if you need to, but he is every bit as intriguing as Monk because of his slashing and defense.

3. Zach Collins- I really like this kid's attitude. He seems very focused and can only go up from where he is right now. Might not be a star, but he'll give 100% and be productive on any team he lands on.

If Monk gets taken in the top 8 we'll almost be guaranteed a shot at Ntilikina and I'll be on pins and needles if the choice comes down to him or Markkanen. I will not eat in the 6 hours prior to our pick because if it is Markkanen I will totally barf.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Seems like Kennard is moving up in the mock drafts. I saw two that have him going 11 and a few others in the mid-teens.
Any ideas why???

God please no....hope we don't trade back for someone like him.

I only watched 10 or 11 Duke games but he sure looked like the best player on the floor on a few occasions. I think he was a real steal when ppl were talking about him at 20. I totally believe he is capable of being late lotto.