2017 NBA Draft

[hayth.james.g]

We may not know exactly what each team will do, but it's pretty much the consensus that this will be a special draft. This is due to the top 9 players, all of whom could be top 3 picks in any other draft.

That doesn't mean you can't sell yourself on a Mitchell, Markannen or Collins. There is upside in each that we could get excited about. But none of them have all NBA written in their futures. The Top 9 do have that type of ceiling.

If we were to trade back a few spots, I could get excited about Mitchell. But I would be seriously disappointed at not getting a DSJ, Monk, or Frank.

*side note- I would be surprised if we don't see multiple traders in the top 10.

[rimrocker]

I'm just curious who we will be kicking ourselves in a few years for not taking in this draft. I'm sure there will be at least one.

[EricaLubarsky]

Frank is all about the potential. Very raw and young, but the physical tools are unmatched.

He's basically like a lottery ticket: small chance to win, but if he pays off he could be the next Greek Freak. If he's available and we go with someone else it'll be because he is a huge risk. If he turns out well, you can bet we'll regret passing on him, but that's the draft. No certainties. With as much scouting and analytics, you still only get a 1/3 chance at a star. 1/5 when drafting 9th.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Frank is all about the potential. Very raw and young, but the physical tools are unmatched.

He's basically like a lottery ticket: small chance to win, but if he pays off he could be the next Greek Freak. If he's available and we go with someone else it'll be because he is a huge risk. If he turns out well, you can bet we'll regret passing on him, but that's the draft. No certainties. With as much scouting and analytics, you still only get a 1/3 chance at a star. 1/5 when drafting 9th.

Considering the layout of the NBA right now vs our teams outlook for the next few years, the safest GM play is to go ahead and take Frank if he's there. You buy yourself time with low expectations in the immediate and can try to hedge your bets via trade and F.A. in case he busts.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I get all the back and forth in this thread. We all have our binkies. That being said not a single one of us knows who TF is going to be good out of this draft. For all we know Lonzo Ball is the next coming of Magic Johnson and Lauri is a more athletic Dirk.

I think you may want to go get a refresh on Dirk's athletic ability when he was younger. Probably a trade off of watching him in his late 30s recently.

Markkanen is no where near the athletic ability of Dirk at the same age.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Songbard

I want Monk. That kind of pure shooter doesn't come around all the time. 2nd is DSJ. His game (minus the size) reminds me of Westbrook. I pray that one of these falls to 9. If not, I think Lauri would be a good down-the-road impact player -- like a "Dirk starter kit". I'm just not feeling the Frank Ntilikina idea.. It seems too much like Roddy B Part 2. I'll admit I haven't had the time to study these guys and our most pressing needs as much as I'd like to, but I need to be sold on why Frank N at #9...

If Frank can be Roddy 2.0 without the career derailing injuries, I don't know why we wouldn't take him tbh.

And I should note, as it's been posted by others, but the kid has a 7'1 wingspan. Freakish. That means with his foot speed and length, he can have the potential to guard 1-4 positions effectively, depending on size match up. That is invaluable if you think he can run the PG effectively for this team, which I absolutely see. His wingspan is the same as Collins and either the same or more than Markkanen (couldn't find). That's crazy. 10 more inches than DSJ and 7 more than Fox.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by saclare

If Frank can be Roddy 2.0 without the career derailing injuries, I don't know why we wouldn't take him tbh.

And I should note, as it's been posted by others, but the kid has a 7'1 wingspan. Freakish. That means with his foot speed and length, he can have the potential to guard 1-4 positions effectively, depending on size match up. That is invaluable if you think he can run the PG effectively for this team, which I absolutely see. His wingspan is the same as Collins and either the same or more than Markkanen (couldn't find). That's crazy. 10 more inches than DSJ and 7 more than Fox.

Agree...Ntilikina makes a lot of sense for us.
I'm beginning to think it will be between him and Monk. If we draft Ntilikina, his versatility almost addresses all of our backcourt needs. If Ntilikina is gone and Monk is available I could see the FO drafting Monk and then aggressively pursuing Holiday or another veteran PG....hopefully with some size.

If we draft Ntilikina that will allow us to manage cap space to eventually resign Curry.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by saclare

I think you may want to go get a refresh on Dirk's athletic ability when he was younger. Probably a trade off of watching him in his late 30s recently.

Markkanen is no where near the athletic ability of Dirk at the same age.

Hyperbole of course. The point is for every Lebron there's an Anthony Bennett. One only need look at the 2011 draft for proof:

1) Kyrie
2) Derrick Williams
...
6) Jan Vesely
...
9) Kemba Walker
...
10) Jimmer Fredette
11) Klay Thompson
...
15) Kawhi Leonard
...
30) Jimmy Butler
...
60) Isaiah Thomas

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Lauri cannot guard anything outside of stationary bigs IMO. And even that is not good. PNR defense is a huge question mark with his foot speed, in an era where PNR is the bread and butter of every team. Lauri also has significant questions as a rebounder from what I have read. The whole NBA is shifting to small ball, I just don't think we can play Noel and Lauri together as much as ppl think. I'd like Lauri but not as a top 10 pick since I don't see him being a starter in the NBA honestly. There is a chance with a guy like Noel he could cover up his issues on defense but that doesn't change the fact he will be exposed on PNR, no way around it. Way too many concerns to take him in the top 10 even if Barnes could be primarily a 3.

With Collins it's all about upside. I'm not even sure how good he really is. Drafting him is entirely drafting on potential since he only played 17 mins a game and it was against reeeeeeeeally bad competition. He played 30 regular season games and his stiffest tests were... St Mary, Florida, and Arizona? And in the tournament he had 1 good game, 1 game out of 40 games where he recorded a double double. He didn't have the mins to do it consistently, and he bizzarely was in foul trouble in 15 of those 40 games, but the whole point is I don't know who he is and he plays a position we are about to spend a ton of money on in Noel. He has too many questions to justify a top 10 pick considering the $$$ we are already committing to the front court and the talent at guard and wing in the top 10 IMO.

So right now Lauri seems pretty similar to what almost everyone thought of Dirk coming into the league as well. Soft, No rebounding, No defense...big offensive talent

[saclare]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Hyperbole of course. The point is for every Lebron there's an Anthony Bennett. One only need look at the 2011 draft for proof:

1) Kyrie
2) Derrick Williams
...
6) Jan Vesely
...
9) Kemba Walker
...
10) Jimmer Fredette
11) Klay Thompson
...
15) Kawhi Leonard
...
30) Jimmy Butler
...
60) Isaiah Thomas

I get that side of your post, and agree. I guess you could have used a better example, as I think most scouts and even armchair GMs as ourselves can agree that Dirk >>> Markkanen in the athletic department. I bet Dirk could effectively guard Markkanen next season when they matchup (i.e. hopefully someone else drafts him).

[saclare]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

So right now Lauri seems pretty similar to what almost everyone thought of Dirk coming into the league as well. Soft, No rebounding, No defense...big offensive talent

Dirk had athleticism though. He was the first of many tall "stretch" fours to be more of a shooter than a banger in the post. But Dirk most definitely showed the ability to run the floor and finish at the rim, along with some drive-ability that made him one of the toughest to gaurd.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

So right now Lauri seems pretty similar to what almost everyone thought of Dirk coming into the league as well. Soft, No rebounding, No defense...big offensive talent

lol . It's true!

[BPo001]

Marc Stein: League sources tell @Zach Lowe and me that the Sixers and Celtics are in serious talks on a trade involving the No. 1 overall pick. – via Twitter ESPNSteinLine

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by saclare

Dirk had athleticism though. He was the first of many tall "stretch" fours to be more of a shooter than a banger in the post. But Dirk most definitely showed the ability to run the floor and finish at the rim, along with some drive-ability that made him one of the toughest to gaurd.

He had decent athleticism, but nothing that popped off the chart. He was stretch 4 in terms of stretch the d out because of his perimiter shooting, and because of that he had ability to drive when bigs went out of their comfort zone. But he was seen as far from nba ready at every aspect aside from scoring. It took him, a hall of famer, many years to shake the "soft" label.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Marc Stein: League sources tell @Zach Lowe and me that the Sixers and Celtics are in serious talks on a trade involving the No. 1 overall pick. – via Twitter ESPNSteinLine

Well, duh the sixers can't afford to miss out on an injury prone Big man p:0

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Marc Stein: League sources tell @Zach Lowe and me that the Sixers and Celtics are in serious talks on a trade involving the No. 1 overall pick. – via Twitter ESPNSteinLine

Sounds like the Celtics are intent on keeping IT, maybe grab something of use while moving down a couple spots to get Jackson.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Sounds like the Celtics are intent on keeping IT, maybe grab something of use while moving down a couple spots to get Jackson.

Assuming the Lakers don't take him first. Not sure how I feel about it. As the Celtics do you want to pay a 29-30 year old IT max money next year? He's a 5'9 PG. I think I'd rather take Fultz and see what I can get for IT. Of course it all depends on what Philly is giving up. Perhaps this years 3rd, 1-2 of their 2nd rounders, or the rights to swap picks next year? No idea what Philly has to give up, but a trio of Fultz, Simmons, and Embid is promising if they stay healthy.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Assuming the Lakers don't take him first. Not sure how I feel about it. As the Celtics do you want to pay a 29-30 year old IT max money next year? He's a 5'9 PG. I think I'd rather take Fultz and see what I can get for IT. Of course it all depends on what Philly is giving up. Perhaps this years 3rd, 1-2 of their 2nd rounders, or the rights to swap picks next year? No idea what Philly has to give up, but a trio of Fultz, Simmons, and Embid is promising if they stay healthy.

We can talk about height, but the guy averaged 29 ppg and over 46% from the field, over 90% from the line, and almost 38% from three. Those are numbers rookies dream about putting up.

I get your concerns about an aging, undersized point, but given the age of the rest of the Celtics roster, it makes sense for them to be in "win-now" mode. I think they have legitimate shot at dethroning the Cavs (depending on what they get for the 1st overall pick) who will be hard-pressed to improve because of the giant contracts they've been giving out like Halloween candy (Smith, Shumpert, Thompson, etc.).

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Sounds like the Celtics are intent on keeping IT, maybe grab something of use while moving down a couple spots to get Jackson.

It makes sense. They continue to gain future assets while picking the best fit and wing in the draft. People act like Jackson isn't a stud. Guy is a phenomenal talent.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Songbard

I'm just not feeling the Frank Ntilikina idea.. It seems too much like Roddy B Part 2. I'll admit I haven't had the time to study these guys and our most pressing needs as much as I'd like to, but I need to be sold on why Frank N at #9...

Roddy had all the tools to excel now as ultra quick guard with a solid shot. Borderline allstar or more. Damn injury.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

It makes sense. They continue to gain future assets while picking the best fit and wing in the draft. People act like Jackson isn't a stud. Guy is a phenomenal talent.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Jackson ends up being the best player taken from this draft. Jackson makes sense for the Lakers too so there is a sizable risk for the Celts making that move.

[Underdog]

@FisolaNYDN: The Knicks have had a scout in Europe babysitting Frank Ntilikina. As of now, he's their man.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Underdog

@FisolaNYDN: The Knicks have had a scout in Europe babysitting Frank Ntilikina. As of now, he's their man.

....that means Dennis Smith Jr. to the Mavs!!!!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by tap2390

....that means Dennis Smith Jr. to the Mavs!!!!

If he's there... Could be Monk or Isaac that slips.

[BPo001]

Thursday can't come soon enough.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

@FisolaNYDN: The Knicks have had a scout in Europe babysitting Frank Ntilikina. As of now, he's their man.

As of now being three very key words.

I guess the hope is that Minny is dumb enough to take Lauri so that Isaac slips. I like him over Monk but would be happy with either.

[EricaLubarsky]

128 hours

[EricaLubarsky]

Lakers love Fultz
Ball suddenly scrambling to try out for teams 3-10

[tap2390]

Out of our realistic options at #9, I think I like Jonathan Isaac the most.

That being said, I would love a swap of #10 + Yogi + ??? for #5 (DeAaron Fox), or something along those lines.

[hayth.james.g]

I'll just keep touting my love for Monk. I know he isn't the "roster fit" some want, but honestly who cares. Our team needs a ton of love before we are championship roster material. Bring the most dyanmic scorer in the draft our way. He will average 23+ ppgs for his career on 45/38/80 minimum.

[EricaLubarsky]

I'd be thrilled to get Monk, current roster aside.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I'd be thrilled to get Monk, current roster aside.

Yeah, the current roster was 33-49 last year... Lottery teams should always draft BPA over need -- I'll gladly take Monk and figure out the rest of the roster later. This is a kid you can build around.

[rimrocker]

I'm warming up to Monk but I'd still rather have Isaac if the option is there.

On another note..... curious why DSJ is working out for the Celtics. I'm wondering if they are going to shake up the entire draft with their moves and hopefully we can benefit from it.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...ut-For-Celtics

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I'm warming up to Monk but I'd still rather have Isaac if the option is there.

On another note..... curious why DSJ is working out for the Celtics. I'm wondering if they are going to shake up the entire draft with their moves and hopefully we can benefit from it.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...ut-For-Celtics

Isaac has motor issues. Intriguing based on his size, but I wouldn't pass on DSJ, Fox, or Frank for him.

[BPo001]

Awful lot to give up when you can get a really good player at 3. I personally think Boston wants Jackson, but thinks they can trade down and gain assets in the process.

Adrian Wojnarowski: Discussions have centered on Sixers sending 2017 No. 3, 2018 Lakers pick, and possibly 2021 1st — including complicated protections.
– via Twitter WojVerticalNBA

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Monk's value lies in the fact that he could be really good his first season...not three to five seasons down the road like Isaac and Frank. Shooting gets you on the floor.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Monk's value lies in the fact that he could be really good his first season...not three to five seasons down the road like Isaac and Frank. Shooting gets you on the floor.

Yeah, and the problem with waiting 3-5 years for a player to develop is that rookie contracts expire in that time. Not that I'd pass on Frank or Issac for that reason, but I'd rather have a guy who can help this team get back to the playoffs sooner so there's more incentive for them to stick around when their contract is up... Basically don't be the Sixers.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

I'll just keep touting my love for Monk. I know he isn't the "roster fit" some want, but honestly who cares. Our team needs a ton of love before we are championship roster material. Bring the most dyanmic scorer in the draft our way. He will average 23+ ppgs for his career on 45/38/80 minimum.

This. He's an athletic Jamal Crawford, worst case. With potentially much better defense. Don't see him slipping to us but you never know...

Monk or Issac and I'd be ecstatic. Would be extremely happy with Frank or Donovan Mitchell or even Zach Collins. DSJ I've soured on but would still be excited about what he brings. Just please no to Markannen. All we need is one team ahead of us to take him and we'll get one of our guys.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by mac222b

This. He's an athletic Jamal Crawford, worst case. With potentially much better defense. Don't see him slipping to us but you never know...

Monk or Issac and I'd be ecstatic. Would be extremely happy with Frank or Donovan Mitchell or even Zach Collins. DSJ I've soured on but would still be excited about what he brings. Just please no to Markannen. All we need is one team ahead of us to take him and we'll get one of our guys.

Well someone has to slip due to the process of elimination. If the Knicks really are gaga about Frank, then Monk, Isaac, or long shot DSJ will be there at 9.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Monk's value lies in the fact that he could be really good his first season...not three to five seasons down the road like Isaac and Frank. Shooting gets you on the floor.

You're probably right....Ntilikina is just too raw which has been my biggest concern with him and Isaac's questionable work ethic will most likely impede his progress if not completely kill it.
I personally feel no player has a chance to be all-star material without a natural competitive spirit and strong work ethic no matter how talented they are.

Considering where we are in the rebuild process we need someone who can contribute within the next two seasons.

But careful with that "Shooting gets you on the floor" statement because Markkanen might be the best shooter in this draft class and you might get yahyes started again