2021-2022 Preseason and camp thread - Page 38 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Zeus · 07-01-2021, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lestat_1795

Exactly!
Made himself a career by following LeBron since high school and now he thinks he has inside into any NBA team.

Windhorst's biggest quote of the last year was "No more buffets" Poor guy was devastated by the pandemic induced demise of the modern American buffet.

Zeus · 07-01-2021, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I agree. People are hyping up Trae and Ayton's supporting cast now but I Don't recall many people hyping up players like Huerter, Bognanovic, Collins or Capella...now they are great players.....Trae makes that team go.

Your memory of others hype level is irrelevant. The Hawks have a demonstrably better supporting cast for the love of god. By saying that doesn't make Trae bad. He just isn't a 1st team All-NBA caliber player.

tap2390 · 07-01-2021, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I agree. People are hyping up Trae and Ayton's supporting cast now but I Don't recall many people hyping up players like Huerter, Bognanovic, Collins or Capella...now they are great players.....Trae makes that team go.

I mean it doesn’t matter if we hyped them or not.

Capela is a huge defensive center who can guard the perimeter and catch lobs. Do we have one of those?

Collins is a versatile scoring PF/C who can be a roll man and shoot the 3. Do we have one of those?

Bogdan is a scoring guard who averaged 47/44/91 splits. Do we have one of those?

It’s not our job to find these guys. Of course Trae makes it all work, but they just showed they’re capable of winning without him.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-01-2021, 09:45 AM

Yep...they got Kidd for the awesome sauce plan of having him deal with multiple superstars! lol.

https://twitter.com/All_Things_Mavs/...91328455561216

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-01-2021, 09:45 AM

.

BPo001 · 07-01-2021, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Yep...they got Kidd for the awesome sauce plan of having him deal with multiple superstars! lol.

https://twitter.com/All_Things_Mavs/...91328455561216

I’ve heard he’s a fun guy. Should fit right in.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-01-2021, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

I’ve heard he’s a fun guy. Should fit right in.

He loves knee experts from what I hear.

saclare · 07-01-2021, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Just because a guy has a better team doesn't mean you discredit him. ITs evident that at this point at the very least they are of the same caliber...if anyone wants to argue Trae is better I wouldn't argue against it.

Hawks thrived simply drafting well and not having to trade their draft picks for a guy like KP.

This is my least favorite story line of these playoffs. And I'll absolutely go at anyone thinking Trae is better than Luka. You wouldn't even argue?

The last part is simply why Donnie is gone. Could argue the same for Rick given the Hawks response to a McMillan.

SMC0007 · 07-01-2021, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Yep...they got Kidd for the awesome sauce plan of having him deal with multiple superstars! lol.

https://twitter.com/All_Things_Mavs/...91328455561216

Most of Mavs Twitter is a cesspool of gullible dreamers.

JustJay · 07-01-2021, 10:49 AM

How the hell can we be the most likely suitor if our cap space is partially dependent on someone opting out.

Now if the Clippers wants to take on KP just to get someone since Kawhi is leaving anyway and do a sign and trade, I guess then we're talking but they were the team that saw up close who KP was this playoffs so I doubt that.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-01-2021, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

How the hell can we be the most likely suitor if our cap space is dependent on two players opting out. Kawhi going to play for the MLE?

To be fair I hate when salary cap makes anyone a better suitor. The bottom line is if that if Kawhi told the Mavs he wants to sign here the Mavs would move Kleber and others if needed to make the room if need be.

Having said that... IMO the odds of Kawhi leaving LA for anyone is like 1%... Clippers would 100% make other moves to make him happy hell I'd make a deal around PG13 for Lillard if I was them. Much better fit with the added playmaking and shot making in crunch time.

JustJay · 07-01-2021, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

To be fair I hate when salary cap makes anyone a better suitor. The bottom line is if that if Kawhi told the Mavs he wants to sign here the Mavs would move Kleber and others if needed to make the room if need be.

Having said that... IMO the odds of Kawhi leaving LA for anyone is like 1%... Clippers would 100% make other moves to make him happy hell I'd make a deal around PG13 for Lillard if I was them. Much better fit with the added playmaking and shot making in crunch time.

Is Lillard available for PG13? I'm sure Clippers would do that in a heartbeat.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-01-2021, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

Is Lillard available for PG13? I'm sure Clippers would do that in a heartbeat.

I doubt Lillard is available, the rumors have been around him wanting out of there but I'd be surprised if they didn't trade CJ and stuff for a better co star to keep Lillard. But it's way more of a realistic scenario to make a deal around PG13 and Lillard than the bs I keep reading about Mavs miraculously trading for Lillard or "executives" believing Dallas being any kind of threat to take Kawhi away simply because Luka and "salary flexibility".

Idk who these sources are in articles like that but players of Kawhi's caliber do not care one bit about a teams cap space. If they want to go somewhere and they are a free agent that team would move heaven and earth to get them there. The THJ's of the world have to look at a teams cap space for possible destinations I'm sure. The Kawhi's? Absolutely not.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-01-2021, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

How the hell can we be the most likely suitor if our cap space is partially dependent on someone opting out.

Now if the Clippers wants to take on KP just to get someone since Kawhi is leaving anyway and do a sign and trade, I guess then we're talking but they were the team that saw up close who KP was this playoffs so I doubt that.

If Kawhi wants to come here, then that won't be an issue. Look at how Miami cleared space for Jimmy Butler as an example, and they were worse off cap-wise.

It's a la la land scenario though. Clippers are likely NBA champions with a healthy Kawhi.

tap2390 · 07-01-2021, 11:49 AM

Kawhi is not leaving his championship-caliber squad and the city/state he turned down literal millions for (by my estimate over $50 million by turning down the Spurs max deal and in taxes) for the Mavs.

JustJay · 07-01-2021, 12:45 PM

You guys are right about cap space. Sadly that makes Marc Cuban and his former staff possibly the dumbest in all of sports. They saved cap space for a decade and never got a star, and all they had to do was build the right way and they could have used players as assets possibly towards trading for a star or they could give away the players for nothing and signed the superstar anyway.

JustJay · 07-01-2021, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

If Kawhi wants to come here, then that won't be an issue. Look at how Miami cleared space for Jimmy Butler as an example, and they were worse off cap-wise.

It's a la la land scenario though. Clippers are likely NBA champions with a healthy Kawhi.

I'm not saying I believe he's coming to Dallas because I do not believe that. But I did hear on TV this morning he might be unhappy with the Clipper medical staff, and the last time he was unhappy with a medical staff he demanded out. But again regardless if he leaves I do not think he wants to come here. Would Dallas even play along with missing 20 games a year? You know that would be a requirement.

FreshJive · 07-01-2021, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I Don't recall many people hyping up players like Bognanovic, Collins or Capella

Well I do. A lot of it on this site.

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Are you kidding?

Capela made the Rockets work. Literally near all star and I wanted him bad
Tons of people on DM.com were heartbroken about Bogdan, myself included.
I’ve seen over 25 posts here asking about Collins

Thats a killer supporting cast. They did a nice job. They got a nice talent in the draft, cleared cap, and then filled up their roster with a nice hodgepodge of pieces with it. It’s what we could have done if we didn’t max KP

Yeah this is revisionist history......no one came into this offseason picking the Hawks to make the playoffs and surely no one was saying Capella was a difference maker for them. Most thought he'd get run off the floor. Nobody in this offseason said Trae had a great supporting cast. No one.

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

No kidding. Does Dallas41 always make shit up about "Mavs fans?" Maybe he means on other forums or social media platforms, but I'm pretty sure I said I'd trade THJ for Bogdan.

41 didn't say this I did. I'm not saying they are bad players. I'm saying in this offseason I heard NOTHING about how great Trae's supporting cast is....I sure as hell didn't hear about it last season.

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

I think you just make up stuff to disagree with people's post. I said Trae was not bad but I've seen plenty of him going 5 of 23 and his team still winning, and now he didn't play and they still win. It's already been proven that his defense is so bad that pretty much whatever he scores is made up on the other end. He is not a good 3 point shooter but can get hot. Yes he can pass and run an offense, but so can Luka. The one thing I would take him over Luka on is free throw shooting he's a way better FT shooter, but overall not better than Luka. Saying he's not better than someone who is already a 2x first team all NBA player in his first 3 seasons is not an insult by the way. You must hate Luka to think it is.

Trying to argue the Mavs supporting cast is as good as the Hawks is ridiculous.

There are quite a few players on that team I would love to have: I think Cam Reddish would be a great fit for this team, but he's not going anywhere. Who cares what people hyped up I didn't know hype makes a good player. They have a bunch of underrated players that are now getting the spotlight shown on them. I would rather have that than someone overrated like THJ who will get 20 mil a year to sometimes hit 3s and do nothing else. Hardaway Jr was a former Hawk BTW and they could have kept him but turned down a restricted offer match from the Knicks 4 years/71 million. Smart move.

Well you think this about me because of your comprehension skills. I never ONCE said the Mavs supporting cast is as good as the Hawks...I argued the opposite actually.

What I'm saying is I don't penalize players due to the supporting cast they have. I always thought it was silly. Oh I should penalize Joe Montana because he played with Jerry Rice? Huh? Oh Emmitt Smith isn't a great because he had a great team around him? I'm not penalizing players because their front office is smart enough to build teams around them.

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

This is my least favorite story line of these playoffs. And I'll absolutely go at anyone thinking Trae is better than Luka. You wouldn't even argue?

The last part is simply why Donnie is gone. Could argue the same for Rick given the Hawks response to a McMillan.

I personally wouldn't argue against it. Not because I think Trae is better but because I Think they are of the same caliber. The argument can go either way. There's some things Luka does better than Trae and there's some things Trae does better than Luka. Luka is a better rebounder. Trae is a better shooter and leader.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

I mean it doesn’t matter if we hyped them or not.

Capela is a huge defensive center who can guard the perimeter and catch lobs. Do we have one of those?

Collins is a versatile scoring PF/C who can be a roll man and shoot the 3. Do we have one of those?

Bogdan is a scoring guard who averaged 47/44/91 splits. Do we have one of those?

It’s not our job to find these guys. Of course Trae makes it all work, but they just showed they’re capable of winning without him.

Capella can guard the perimeter? Huh?

They showed they are capable of beating a hobbled Bucks team without him? So that means what exactly? Clippers showed they could win without Kawhi Leonard...does that mean Kawhi isn't a superstar?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Your memory of others hype level is irrelevant. The Hawks have a demonstrably better supporting cast for the love of god. By saying that doesn't make Trae bad. He just isn't a 1st team All-NBA caliber player.

Did you say this in the offseason or are you just saying this now?

SMC0007 · 07-01-2021, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I personally wouldn't argue against it. Not because I think Trae is better but because I Think they are of the same caliber. The argument can go either way. There's some things Luka does better than Trae and there's some things Trae does better than Luka. Luka is a better rebounder. Trae is a better shooter and leader.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_...um=0&request=1

Trae is a better shooter? Are we talking Free Throw shooter?

Also not sure how Trae is a better leader.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-01-2021, 03:39 PM

Trae and Luka are not the same caliber... Luka for 2yrs has been debated as being a possible future top 10 player of all time for a reason.

Luka just played the Clippers with all their top defenders and averaged 36/10/8 on 49%fg and 41% 3pt. The only thing he did poorly was ft shooting. Trae is shooting 42%fg 32% from 3.

Trae is a great player but put Trae on the Mavs and they don't even make 7 games with the Clippers.

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_...um=0&request=1

Trae is a better shooter? Are we talking Free Throw shooter?

Also not sure how Trae is a better leader.

I think Trae makes players around him better.

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Trae and Luka are not the same caliber... Luka for 2yrs has been debated as being a possible future top 10 player of all time for a reason.

Luka just played the Clippers with all their top defenders and averaged 36/10/8 on 49%fg and 41% 3pt. The only thing he did poorly was ft shooting. Trae is shooting 42%fg 32% from 3.

Trae is a great player but put Trae on the Mavs and they don't even make 7 games with the Clippers.

I never said Trae was better. I said they’re of the same caliber. The playoffs changed my opinion on Trae.

tap2390 · 07-01-2021, 03:59 PM

Hawks have multiple three-level scorers and competent big men -- Mavs have none. There simply is no comparison. Again, it is completely irrelevant what fans of another team were saying before the season. People are stupid (myself included). That being said, many on this board were/are clamoring for Collins, Capela, and Bogdan.

SMC0007 · 07-01-2021, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I think Trae makes players around him better.

Trae actually DOES have better players around him. It's not BECAUSE Trae makes them better.

EricaLubarsky · 07-01-2021, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Yeah this is revisionist history......no one came into this offseason picking the Hawks to make the playoffs and surely no one was saying Capella was a difference maker for them. Most thought he'd get run off the floor. Nobody in this offseason said Trae had a great supporting cast. No one.

You are literally changing the argument and I read at least a dozen, but you are welcome to the reality inside your head.

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Hawks have multiple three-level scorers and competent big men -- Mavs have none. There simply is no comparison. Again, it is completely irrelevant what fans of another team were saying before the season. People are stupid (myself included). That being said, many on this board were/are clamoring for Collins, Capela, and Bogdan.

The only reason people are saying he has a great supporting cast is to make Luka look better in arguments…IMO.

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Trae actually DOES have better players around him. It's not BECAUSE Trae makes them better.

Debatable. Like I said earlier a year ago nobody was beating down their door for those guys. Capella was given to them, they’ve been trying to trade Collins for the past two year’s, Sweet Lou is a journeyman….

Dallas41 · 07-01-2021, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Most of Mavs Twitter is a cesspool of gullible dreamers.

They need to stop dreaming and go get DeRozan the minute FA starts

If they screw around with some B.S. vision of Leonard leaving the state of Cali fans need to riot

Enough of this Big Fish crap let's get some solid starting players around Luka that can still help him win now

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

You are literally changing the argument and I read at least a dozen, but you are welcome to the reality inside your head.

I never changed the argument. I never denied Young has a good supporting cast I just don’t want to hear that all of a sudden they are great because a year ago nobody would trade KP for any of those guys.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-01-2021, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

They need to stop dreaming and go get DeRozan the minute FA starts

If they screw around with some B.S. vision of Leonard leaving the state of Cali fans need to riot

Enough of this Big Fish crap let's get some solid starting players around Luka that can still help him win now

Derozan was 3rd in the NBA with 140 clutch points in 143 mins but a -25
Luka had 81 in 89 mins and was +6
KP had 18 in 41 mins and was +9
THJ had 25 in 68 mins and was a staggering -48... worst among any player who was on a team that went to the playoffs.

To be fair the Spurs just were not very good so the +- for him is a little misleading imo.

But this just shows why imo THJ is a 6th man not a starter. Which is why I wouldn't pay him remotely what he will get in free agency.

Edit-
Btw Lillard led the NBA with 162pts in 126mins and was +100 .... wow.

Melonhead · 07-01-2021, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Yeah this is revisionist history......no one came into this offseason picking the Hawks to make the playoffs and surely no one was saying Capella was a difference maker for them. Most thought he'd get run off the floor. Nobody in this offseason said Trae had a great supporting cast. No one.

Lot of people picked the hawks to make playoffs. No one picked them to do damage though. My thought was Rondo would coach up the team similar to the way CP3 has done. Obviously that didn’t pan out, but in the East absolutely thought they’d get a 6-8 seed and be a first round battle.

tap2390 · 07-01-2021, 05:37 PM

The more I think about it, the more out I am on DeRozan.

He's older, going to commend a lot of money, doesn't spread the floor, and isn't known as a great defender.

Sign and trade THJ for Duncan Robinson.

Trade KP for Wiggins.

Sign Richaun Holmes & someone like Tony Snell.

Luka - Brunson - Terry
Wiggins - Green
DFS - Duncan - Tony Snell
Maxi - Powell - Tyler Bey
Richaun - WCS

BPo001 · 07-01-2021, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Trae actually DOES have better players around him. It's not BECAUSE Trae makes them better.

Bingo.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-01-2021, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

The more I think about it, the more out I am on DeRozan.

He's older, going to commend a lot of money, doesn't spread the floor, and isn't known as a great defender.

Sign and trade THJ for Duncan Robinson.

Trade KP for Wiggins.

Sign Richaun Holmes & someone like Tony Snell.

Luka - Brunson - Terry
Wiggins - Green
DFS - Duncan - Tony Snell
Maxi - Powell - Tyler Bey
Richaun - WCS

I can't imagine a scenario where Wiggins is a #2 that doesn't end in a 1st round at best exit. There is also no playmaker outside of Luka again with this. To me this is a downgrade overall to last year.

BPo001 · 07-01-2021, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I can't imagine a scenario where Wiggins is a #2 that doesn't end in a 1st round at best exit. There is also no playmaker outside of Luka again with this. To me this is a downgrade overall to last year.

I’m not even sure that’s a playoff team. That’s a team hoping to make the play in bracket.

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

The more I think about it, the more out I am on DeRozan.

He's older, going to commend a lot of money, doesn't spread the floor, and isn't known as a great defender.

Sign and trade THJ for Duncan Robinson.

Trade KP for Wiggins.

Sign Richaun Holmes & someone like Tony Snell.

Luka - Brunson - Terry
Wiggins - Green
DFS - Duncan - Tony Snell
Maxi - Powell - Tyler Bey
Richaun - WCS

So Mavs basically get worse at every position except big man because I do like Holmes though he has fouling issues.