2021-2022 Preseason and camp thread - Page 39 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Bryan_Wilson · 07-01-2021, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

I’m not even sure that’s a playoff team. That’s a team hoping to make the play in bracket.

I agree. The only reason I have the ceiling as a 1st round exit is because of Luka. Overall though this roster would easily be worse.

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

I’m not even sure that’s a playoff team. That’s a team hoping to make the play in bracket.

Yeah it isn't IMO. That team sucks. Unless the idea is to tank next year? But it wouldn't even be a effective tank...it would be a 9th or 10th seed team.

BPo001 · 07-01-2021, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Yeah it isn't IMO. That team sucks. Unless the idea is to tank next year? But it wouldn't even be a effective tank...it would be a 9th or 10th seed team.

There’s a 0% chance we are on team tank next year.

Zeus · 07-01-2021, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Trae and Luka are not the same caliber... Luka for 2yrs has been debated as being a possible future top 10 player of all time for a reason.

Luka just played the Clippers with all their top defenders and averaged 36/10/8 on 49%fg and 41% 3pt. The only thing he did poorly was ft shooting. Trae is shooting 42%fg 32% from 3.

Trae is a great player but put Trae on the Mavs and they don't even make 7 games with the Clippers.

Couldn't agree any more than with this. Conversely put Luka on Atlanta they are likely unstoppable, especially with the marked better defense from Luka and more efficient offense.

Zeus · 07-01-2021, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

To be fair I hate when salary cap makes anyone a better suitor. The bottom line is if that if Kawhi told the Mavs he wants to sign here the Mavs would move Kleber and others if needed to make the room if need be.

Having said that... IMO the odds of Kawhi leaving LA for anyone is like 1%... Clippers would 100% make other moves to make him happy hell I'd make a deal around PG13 for Lillard if I was them. Much better fit with the added playmaking and shot making in crunch time.

I would actually like PG13 here along side Luka. Would be the perfect secondary creator.

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

There’s a 0% chance we are on team tank next year.

If they come out of this offseason with just Richaun Holmes, Duncan Robinson and Wiggins then yeah they might as well be unintentionally tanking lol.

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Couldn't agree any more than with this. Conversely put Luka on Atlanta they are likely unstoppable, especially with the marked better defense from Luka and more efficient offense.

Hawks getting their as whooped by Bobby Portis and Brook Lopez tonight.....they don't nearly as great as you guys make them sound......

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

I would actually like PG13 here along side Luka. Would be the perfect secondary creator.

What I don't like about Paul is that he has great stats in these playoffs but you look up and he's missing a lot of jumpers..

SMC0007 · 07-01-2021, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Derozan was 3rd in the NBA with 140 clutch points in 143 mins but a -25
Luka had 81 in 89 mins and was +6
KP had 18 in 41 mins and was +9
THJ had 25 in 68 mins and was a staggering -48... worst among any player who was on a team that went to the playoffs.

To be fair the Spurs just were not very good so the +- for him is a little misleading imo.

But this just shows why imo THJ is a 6th man not a starter. Which is why I wouldn't pay him remotely what he will get in free agency.

Edit-
Btw Lillard led the NBA with 162pts in 126mins and was +100 .... wow.

I get that DD isn't a great defender. I just don't buy a ton of stock on +/-. There's something to it for sure but it's dependent on team performance too.

The way I see it is, there's no use having cap space so why not get a multi tool offensive pairing with Luka. Basically trading THJ for DDR which is a definite upgrade.

Dallas41 · 07-01-2021, 11:32 PM

Just seen a interview with Jeff Skin Wade and man he really ripped into RC regarding his coaching comments about Kidd.

Dallas41 · 07-01-2021, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

The more I think about it, the more out I am on DeRozan.

He's older, going to commend a lot of money, doesn't spread the floor, and isn't known as a great defender.

Sign and trade THJ for Duncan Robinson.

Trade KP for Wiggins.

Sign Richaun Holmes & someone like Tony Snell.

Luka - Brunson - Terry
Wiggins - Green
DFS - Duncan - Tony Snell
Maxi - Powell - Tyler Bey
Richaun - WCS

So let me get this straight you'd pass up on All Star talent like DeRozan because he's not a floor spacer?

We've seen and heard that stuff before how the Mavs need floor spacers and come playoff time those floor spacers go cold because the jumper isn't always falling.

We've seen guys like Chris Paul and K.Leonard dominate in 4th qtr's being mid range shooters and DeRozan is a deadly mid range shooter. Not only that but dude can get to the FT Line which this team severely needs come post season.

He's a far superior player to the guys you listed and none of them IMO helps this team get to the next level in the playoffs like DeRozan would as Luka sidekick

Then you said his age.....

Haven't we learned already about being picky when it comes to players age?

I'm watching key veteran players in the playoffs right now that had their respective teams worried about their age they wouldn't be in a position they are in now.....

Luka is ready to win now and if you can get a guy who's 31-32 years old that is still playing at high level you do it (ask Phoenix)

IMO there is no better wing player in terms of UFA's that are better than DeRozan dude can basically do everything you need as that 2nd option despite not jacking up 3's (we have enough of those guys already).

Dtownsfinest · 07-01-2021, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Just seen a interview with Jeff Skin Wade and man he really ripped into RC regarding his coaching comments about Kidd.

Must've pissed him off because he never rips into anyone lol.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-02-2021, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I get that DD isn't a great defender. I just don't buy a ton of stock on +/-. There's something to it for sure but it's dependent on team performance too.

The way I see it is, there's no use having cap space so why not get a multi tool offensive pairing with Luka. Basically trading THJ for DDR which is a definite upgrade.

Oh I'm all for Derozan. I've said he would be my first call as soon as eligible. To me it's not close on who is actually available as of now.

Zeus · 07-02-2021, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Must've pissed him off because he never rips into anyone lol.

By all accounts, RC is a very good X's and O's coach in general but a prick of the highest order. The triangulation of this opinion of RC across the league is simply overwhelming.

JustJay · 07-02-2021, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I never said Trae was better. I said they’re of the same caliber. The playoffs changed my opinion on Trae.

Weren't you just talking about revisionist history why is it ok for you to change your mind about Trae after this playoffs which makes sense but it's not ok for others to feel the way they do about his supporting cast? You're so backwards. Are you that blind to think Trae is doing this all by himself? Yes Trae is their best player I never said he wasn't but they have a solid lineup of players that aren't afraid of the big shot in the biggest moments like most of the Dallas Mavericks are, plus a defensive stud in Capela. If you do your research you might see that Trae has a lot of games where he shoots a poor percentage yet the team finds a way to win anyway. You can't give him all the credit for that.

Supporting cast matters regardless of what you think nobody wins by their self not even Michael Jordan could. The whole point of the conversation was that Trae is not in the ECF just because he's better than Luka who went out in the first round. It's because he has a better supporting cast which is what I said in the first place and you took issue with for some reason that I still can't figure out I'm not even sure you can.

If you're going to disagree with someone have some sensible reasons behind it don't just ramble about nonsense just to argue.

JustJay · 07-02-2021, 08:28 AM

On First Things First a Sports Show on FS1 they're seriously debating Kawhi coming to Dallas.

Disclaimer: Me pointing this out does not mean I think he's coming to Dallas, thanks

JustJay · 07-02-2021, 08:28 AM

On First Things First a Sports Show on FS1 they're seriously debating Kawhi coming to Dallas.

Disclaimer: Me pointing this out does not mean I think he's coming to Dallas, thanks

BPo001 · 07-02-2021, 09:38 AM

John Hollinger: The team to watch with Conley is Dallas, though. I mean, they were the team that was after him when he was a free agent last time and he re-signed with (Memphis). Yeah, I would definitely keep an eye on Dallas. – via Spotify

BPo001 · 07-02-2021, 09:39 AM

I’ve noticed a lot of double posts lately. Am I doing something? I only hit reply once. Is it something with the board that’s causing this?

JustJay · 07-02-2021, 09:42 AM

If we could get Conley on a reasonable contract I'd be down for that.

BPo001 · 07-02-2021, 09:42 AM

J. Michael Falgoust: Note that Darrell Armstrong, who spent the previous 13 seasons as an assistant under Rick Carlisle in Dallas, is NOT joining him in Indiana, league source tells @IndyStarSports –

Have we heard anything about Kidd’s assistant coaches? I know Barea and JET are rumored to join the staff, but I can’t imagine they are going to be the lead assistant with minimal to no experience.

JustJay · 07-02-2021, 09:42 AM

If we could get Conley on a reasonable contract I'd be down for that.

BPo001 · 07-02-2021, 09:42 AM

J. Michael Falgoust: Note that Darrell Armstrong, who spent the previous 13 seasons as an assistant under Rick Carlisle in Dallas, is NOT joining him in Indiana, league source tells @IndyStarSports –

Have we heard anything about Kidd’s assistant coaches? I know Barea and JET are rumored to join the staff, but I can’t imagine they are going to be the lead assistant with minimal to no experience.

SMC0007 · 07-02-2021, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Oh I'm all for Derozan. I've said he would be my first call as soon as eligible. To me it's not close on who is actually available as of now.

Yea I know you are on board with him, I quoted you but was more speaking in general on the matter. Derozan makes us a lot better and most importantly for me is we wouldn't be as reliant on 3pt shooting scheme. We get a clutch scorer and wouldn't have to watch Luka doing everything on fumes at the end of games in crunch time. That's not to suggest that Kidd would even run the same system, I just like that it would take the 3pt reliance down a notch.

I'm intrigued with Derozan and Bobby Portis, who I have been interested in before. These moves are more logical and would help a lot. Portis is a scrappy player similar to James Johnson but he is a bit more capable all around. Hell me might even start here in front of Maxi. That might be enough to entice him to come. I think he got enough exposure to draw plenty of interest from other teams but not enough exposure to price himself out of Dallas.

Dtownsfinest · 07-02-2021, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

J. Michael Falgoust: Note that Darrell Armstrong, who spent the previous 13 seasons as an assistant under Rick Carlisle in Dallas, is NOT joining him in Indiana, league source tells @IndyStarSports –

Have we heard anything about Kidd’s assistant coaches? I know Barea and JET are rumored to join the staff, but I can’t imagine they are going to be the lead assistant with minimal to no experience.

I sort of assumed that Kidd would align himself with some of the coaches that were here during his stint in Dallas.....but then who knows....

Dtownsfinest · 07-02-2021, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

Are you that blind to think Trae is doing this all by himself? Yes Trae is their best player I never said he wasn't but they have a solid lineup of players that aren't afraid of the big shot in the biggest moments like most of the Dallas Mavericks are, plus a defensive stud in Capela. If you do your research you might see that Trae has a lot of games where he shoots a poor percentage yet the team finds a way to win anyway. You can't give him all the credit for that.

Where did I say Trae was doing this all by himself?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

Weren't you just talking about revisionist history why is it ok for you to change your mind about Trae after this playoffs which makes sense but it's not ok for others to feel the way they do about his supporting cast? You're so backwards.

That's a fair point if that's what's going on. But I didn't see anyone own up to "We were wrong about his supporting cast"....it just seems like he has a great supporting cast now because its convenient to say in a debate.

But yeah people have the right to change their mind about their supporting cast.

So you believe me changing my opinion of Trae Young in the present is revisionist history?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

Supporting cast matters regardless of what you think nobody wins by their self not even Michael Jordan could. The whole point of the conversation was that Trae is not in the ECF just because he's better than Luka who went out in the first round. It's because he has a better supporting cast which is what I said in the first place and you took issue with for some reason that I still can't figure out I'm not even sure you can.

If you're going to disagree with someone have some sensible reasons behind it don't just ramble about nonsense just to argue.

Ok but who made the point that Trae was in the ECF because he's better than Luka? I never made that claim. And I never took "issue". You and the "burner account" seem to be the only one having issues here. People have a right to disagree with you. Its sports. Ultimately no one is right or wrong. Its opinion. If you can't handle me disagreeing with you then I have no issue putting you on ignore for your well being if its bothering you this much. Not a issue.

Not sure how it got lost in translation but for the record I never said Trae was better than Luka or vice versa....what I said was they are of the same caliber of player.

sefant77 · 07-02-2021, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Must've pissed him off because he never rips into anyone lol.

Wade talks a lot of incredible BS because he is an attention whore.

He ripped Catos articles as horsecrap and look what happened since then.

https://twitter.com/SkinWade/status/...460808192?s=19

JustJay · 07-02-2021, 12:47 PM

Now Cowherd was talking about Kawhi to Dallas. He said Miami and Dallas are after him and Dallas makes way more sense since Luka is younger and better than Jimmy Butler. Also means Kawhi wouldn't have to guard Luka anymore. Sounds good it's too bad he is not in control of Kawhi's brain.

SMC0007 · 07-02-2021, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

Now Cowherd was talking about Kawhi to Dallas. He said Miami and Dallas are after him and Dallas makes way more sense since Luka is younger and better than Jimmy Butler. Also means Kawhi wouldn't have to guard Luka anymore. Sounds good it's too bad he is not in control of Kawhi's brain.

I don't think Dallas make more sense. Bam, Butler and Kawhi is better than KP, Luka, Kawhi. 3 2-way players would be a huge problem and they would be the favorites next season. Kawhi is 30, he doesn't care about growing with a young guy, the dudes not likely going to stay with a team very long anyway. I can't see him in Dallas. He probably laughs if he accidentally reads the 'reports'

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-02-2021, 01:27 PM

The Mavericks are interested in every player in the league this summer.

JustJay · 07-02-2021, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I don't think Dallas make more sense. Bam, Butler and Kawhi is better than KP, Luka, Kawhi. 3 2-way players would be a huge problem and they would be the favorites next season. Kawhi is 30, he doesn't care about growing with a young guy, the dudes not likely going to stay with a team very long anyway. I can't see him in Dallas. He probably laughs if he accidentally reads the 'reports'

He said KP is a poor #2 but a good #3, and Luka/Kawhi/KP and THJ (I guess he assumes he will re-sign) is a championship contender. I'm just the messenger.

It means nothing, but it's kind of refreshing to me for someone to say something positive about the Dallas Mavericks. Hasn't happened much in the last decade other than Luka praise. But I don't see Kawhi coming back to Texas.

FreshJive · 07-02-2021, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I sort of assumed that Kidd would align himself with some of the coaches that were here during his stint in Dallas.....but then who knows....

So Carlisle, Casey, and Stotts? Brad Davis? Who are we talking about here?

Kidd Karma · 07-02-2021, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

So Carlisle, Casey, and Stotts? Brad Davis? Who are we talking about here?

Ha, Monte Mathis....Lakers filled Kidd's role with David Fizdale. Kidd could have put feelers on some HC candidates waiting to hear from other jobs...Stotts as the OC? How many HC jobs are still vacant, Orlando, New Orleans?

saclare · 07-02-2021, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I don't think Dallas make more sense. Bam, Butler and Kawhi is better than KP, Luka, Kawhi. 3 2-way players would be a huge problem and they would be the favorites next season. Kawhi is 30, he doesn't care about growing with a young guy, the dudes not likely going to stay with a team very long anyway. I can't see him in Dallas. He probably laughs if he accidentally reads the 'reports'

That's actually a tough 3v3 comparison. I'm not sure it comes down to Bam vs. KP more so than how much better Luka is than Butler + KP vs. Bam. Of course this is sans any supporting cast debates as the move would surely hit each team's depth.

FreshJive · 07-02-2021, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Yeah this is revisionist history......no one came into this offseason picking the Hawks to make the playoffs and surely no one was saying Capella was a difference maker for them. Most thought he'd get run off the floor. Nobody in this offseason said Trae had a great supporting cast. No one.

You said no one was hyping these players. Pretty much everyone wanted these players when there was any report that they may be available. You did change the argument multiple times in this thread. Now it’s nobody wanted to trade KP for them.

So did Donnie suck and fail to put players around Luka, while the Hawks built a team, or are Luka and Trae equal players with roughly the same supporting casts? Pretty sure you have said both of these within the space of a month.

FreshJive · 07-02-2021, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Ha, Monte Mathis....Lakers filled Kidd's role with David Fizdale. Kidd could have put feelers on some HC candidates waiting to hear from other jobs...Stotts as the OC? How many HC jobs are still vacant, Orlando, New Orleans?

Yeah. I noticed poor Monte was out of the league while making this post. DJ is all that he’s got left to pick from.

Dtownsfinest · 07-02-2021, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

So Carlisle, Casey, and Stotts? Brad Davis? Who are we talking about here?

I didn't know Brad Davis was a coach here but I was thinking more so guys like Darrell Armstrong and bringing in Stotts....Mike Weiner, God Shamgod...

Dtownsfinest · 07-02-2021, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

You said no one was hyping these players. Pretty much everyone wanted these players when there was any report that they may be available. You did change the argument multiple times in this thread. Now it’s nobody wanted to trade KP for them.

So did Donnie suck and fail to put players around Luka, while the Hawks built a team, or are Luka and Trae equal players with roughly the same supporting casts? Pretty sure you have said both of these within the space of a month.

Didn't mean to change it(didn't think I did) but if I did let me get back to what I was saying. I don't recall anyone hyping up Trae Young's supporting cast this offseason. If you did then cool. You saw into the future and projected well...I know I personally didn't think much of it and what I saw yesterday is pretty much what I thought about them. You take Trae Young out they have no distributors....Collins is a shell of himself when Trae is not on the court. Cappella doesn't get easy baskets....Huerter and Bognadovic do have the green light to shoot as much as they want so I guess they have that going for them.

And I've said Donnie didn't do his job here and screwed up trading future assets for KP. I never argued that the Mavs have a better supporting cast than Luka lol.

Dtownsfinest · 07-02-2021, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The Mavericks are interested in every player in the league this summer.

And they will end up with....Tony Snell sadly.......

BPo001 · 07-02-2021, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I didn't know Brad Davis was a coach here but I was thinking more so guys like Darrell Armstrong and bringing in Stotts....Mike Weiner, God Shamgod...

I hope Sham is back. Players really seem to like him, and I think you’ve seen improvement from a lot of guys handles having him on the bench. I wouldn’t mind Stotts. I’d prefer Kidd have at least 1 assistant coach with head coaching experience. And hell if we are basically bringing the 2011 squad back why not?