PGT: Dirk and Kidd not interested in getting swept (sorry, Warjonski!) - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

CadBane · 04-17-2011, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I was angry at Carlisle about giving Barea too much time when he wasn't performing, too. I believe I tweeted that he was "dead to me" when I saw the 3GL trot out. But upon reflection, I thought he coached the rest of the game pretty well. The moves he made in the last 6 minutes certainly seemed to work. They had a 14 point turnaround.

Haha, what moves? Putting Kidd and Marion back in? The two moves people were pleading to happen several minutes earlier?

jthig32 · 04-17-2011, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

So, let me get this straight. We win a game (and convincingly, at the end), and we're gonna say that we found something in there that "almost cost us the game"?

We were down six with less than six minutes to go, and the game was tied with four minutes to go. It was anyone's game. So yes, I think it's an accurate assessment.

mavs777 · 04-17-2011, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Haha, what moves? Putting Kidd and Marion back in? The two moves people were pleading to happen several minutes earlier?

Believe it or not, there is more to coaching then making subs

xrobx · 04-17-2011, 12:16 AM

we need to treat game 2 like it's game 7. remember, we won game 1 last year too. we need to win both.

chumdawg · 04-17-2011, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I didn't think he passed very well, either. Are you saying you thought he did play well? Just curious, because you seem to dispute my position that he didn't.

He didn't have great results, to be sure, but yeah, I think he played well. I think the whole team did. I think Carlisle coached it well, too. I think we won the damn game. In the playoffs. Against a team that whipped our ass the last time out, and that everyone thinks will whip us in this series.

If you are hung up on results as your only barometer, then there's really no reason to even watch the games.

kg_veteran · 04-17-2011, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Haha, what moves? Putting Kidd and Marion back in? The two moves people were pleading to happen several minutes earlier?

They outscored the Blazers 23-9 down the stretch. That's 23 points in the final 6 minutes, while allowing 9. The offensive and defensive plays he was calling seemed to work.

CadBane · 04-17-2011, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Believe it or not, there is more to coaching then making subs

No shit. Care to share insight on the particulars RC used down the stretch? I've actually played the game while you're a 17 year old kid, so I don't need to be reminded on the intricacies of coaching.

FINtastic · 04-17-2011, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I saw someone refer to Wojo as this generation's Peter Vescey and it really is a perfect assessment.

Couldn't agree more. I find all of the smug, self-righteousness that you have to wade through in his columns to be a bit much. Plus, you can only write so many articles on "the sinister side of LeBron that public doesn't get to see" before you need to start looking for a new schtick.

CadBane · 04-17-2011, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

They outscored the Blazers 23-9 down the stretch. That's 23 points in the final 6 minutes, while allowing 9. The offensive and defensive plays he was calling seemed to work.

He didn't call any defensive plays. We played man to man. I guess he ran some nice offensive schemes...I mean really it was just Dirk going to work and Kidd hitting a huge three. It was actually Dirk who orchaestrated the three pointer in the corner and the backcourt cut, FWIW

kg_veteran · 04-17-2011, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

He didn't have great results, to be sure, but yeah, I think he played well. I think the whole team did. I think Carlisle coached it well, too. I think we won the damn game. In the playoffs. Against a team that whipped our ass the last time out, and that everyone thinks will whip us in this series.

If you are hung up on results as your only barometer, then there's really no reason to even watch the games.

I'm not going to waste time arguing about this. It's not like I really dislike Barea. I'll just beg to differ with you, hope he plays less or better in Game 2, and continue to savor the Game 1 win.

jthig32 · 04-17-2011, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Haha, what moves? Putting Kidd and Marion back in? The two moves people were pleading to happen several minutes earlier?

This is where the Carlisle bashers lose me. Are you seriously making the case that all Rick did over the final six minutes was put our best players on the court? Is he Mike Brown, just rolling the ball out? He doesn't have anything to do with the sets that we run on both ends of the court, along with other decisions?

Rick has his faults and I thought he made a huge mistake tonight with the 3GL, but I can't support taking it any further than that. He's a very good coach. He's respected around the league for his x's and o's. Every team's fans have issues with their coach. Dub loves to point out how the Spurs boards treat Pop.

Rick is far from perfect and he made one awful decision tonight, but let's not take it too far.

CadBane · 04-17-2011, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Couldn't agree more. I find all of the smug, self-righteousness that you have to wade through in his columns to be a bit much. Plus, you can only write so many articles on "the sinister side of LeBron that public doesn't get to see" before you need to start looking for a new schtick.

I actually used to like his scathing articles on LBJ, they were over-the-top, but funny IMO. Now I hate him.

chumdawg · 04-17-2011, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

I wouldn't call that a convincing win. And what do you find odd about pointing out a huge coaching error that almost cost a game, and could in the future?

Learn from your mistakes?

You are assuming that the two things are unrelated. I suggest that they are. By playing Barea the minutes he did, he was able to rest Kidd without the team getting completely overwhelmed. Then when it was time to buckle down, the big boys were ready and we pulled away.

Seems pretty smart, when you look at it that way.

Tyrone Jamal · 04-17-2011, 12:21 AM

Doris Burke doesn't have the chest to commentate NBA playoff games. I don't care what anyone says.

kg_veteran · 04-17-2011, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

He didn't call any defensive plays. We played man to man. I guess he ran some nice offensive schemes...I mean really it was just Dirk going to work and Kidd hitting a huge three. It was actually Dirk who orchaestrated the three pointer in the corner and the backcourt cut, FWIW

I'm sure you could have done it. After all, you've played the game.

kg_veteran · 04-17-2011, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

This is where the Carlisle bashers lose me. Are you seriously making the case that all Rick did over the final six minutes was put our best players on the court? Is he Mike Brown, just rolling the ball out? He doesn't have anything to do with the sets that we run on both ends of the court, along with other decisions?

Rick has his faults and I thought he made a huge mistake tonight with the 3GL, but I can't support taking it any further than that. He's a very good coach. He's respected around the league for his x's and o's. Every team's fans have issues with their coach. Dub loves to point out how the Spurs boards treat Pop.

Rick is far from perfect and he made one awful decision tonight, but let's not take it too far.

Right.

CadBane · 04-17-2011, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

This is where the Carlisle bashers lose me. Are you seriously making the case that all Rick did over the final six minutes was put our best players on the court? Is he Mike Brown, just rolling the ball out? He doesn't have anything to do with the sets that we run on both ends of the court, along with other decisions?

Rick has his faults and I thought he made a huge mistake tonight with the 3GL, but I can't support taking it any further than that. He's a very good coach. He's respected around the league for his x's and o's. Every team's fans have issues with their coach. Dub loves to point out how the Spurs boards treat Pop.

Rick is far from perfect and he made one awful decision tonight, but let's not take it too far.

I actually agree that RC is a very good X's and O's Coach. However...down the stretch, I didn't discern any particular savvy plays or schemes down the stretch.

His rotational blunder is a far more egregious crime, because it just shouldn't have happened. No rationale for it.

sefant77 · 04-17-2011, 12:22 AM

I seriously wanna know how much Jason Kidd wanked when he was a teenager to get such strong hands.

When he grabbed that ball from Wallace, just aweseome.

kg_veteran · 04-17-2011, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You are assuming that the two things are unrelated. I suggest that they are. By playing Barea the minutes he did, he was able to rest Kidd without the team getting completely overwhelmed. Then when it was time to buckle down, the big boys were ready and we pulled away.

Seems pretty smart, when you look at it that way.

He was playing with fire, and tonight he didn't get burned. If Barea can just contribute a bit more offensively, this is probably a non-issue.

chumdawg · 04-17-2011, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I'm not going to waste time arguing about this. It's not like I really dislike Barea. I'll just beg to differ with you, hope he plays less or better in Game 2, and continue to savor the Game 1 win.

I hope Dirk plays better, too. You want to differ with that?

jthig32 · 04-17-2011, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You are assuming that the two things are unrelated. I suggest that they are. By playing Barea the minutes he did, he was able to rest Kidd without the team getting completely overwhelmed. Then when it was time to buckle down, the big boys were ready and we pulled away.

Seems pretty smart, when you look at it that way.

I agree with this part. As I've already said I'm willing to defer to Rick on Kidd's minutes. And JJB has to play the minutes that Kidd doesn't.

Playing them together, however, is not ok against the Blazers. Not in my book, anyway. And playing them with Jet? And Peja?

C'mon. That's nuts.

kg_veteran · 04-17-2011, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

I seriously wanna know how much Jason Kidd wanked when he was a teenager to get such strong hands.

When he grabbed that ball from Wallace, just aweseome.

LOL. I remember one of the former player commentator types referring to him as having "old steel hands."

CadBane · 04-17-2011, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You are assuming that the two things are unrelated. I suggest that they are. By playing Barea the minutes he did, he was able to rest Kidd without the team getting completely overwhelmed. Then when it was time to buckle down, the big boys were ready and we pulled away.

Seems pretty smart, when you look at it that way.

Kidd only hit two shots after he came back in, and there's no reason to believe he wouldn't have hit them if he hadn't rested that extra minute or two. And it's not as much Kidd 's rest as it was running JJB-Terry-Kidd with no Marion when that undersized lineup was being worked defensively. Remember, JJB stated in several minutes after Kidd came in.

Murphy3 · 04-17-2011, 12:24 AM

I'm actually a pretty big Carlisle fan.. He's not perfect, but he's by far the best coach the Mavs have had in a very long time. Unfortunately, I'm afraid he doesn't have all that many good options when it comes to rotations right now. This team is significantly flawed without Butler. Unfortunately, it's a crapshoot game after game. You just don't have a solid idea as to what you're going to get out of about 90% of the roster.

kg_veteran · 04-17-2011, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I hope Dirk plays better, too. You want to differ with that?

With the exception of the 4th, I certainly agree with that. I hope that he does the same thing in every 4th quarter.

sefant77 · 04-17-2011, 12:25 AM

Playing Barea beside Kidd is stupid.

Playing him beside Kidd when he has a terrible game is really stupid.

Playing him beside Kidd when you have options on the bench is again stupid.

CadBane · 04-17-2011, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I'm sure you could have done it. After all, you've played the game.

chumdawg · 04-17-2011, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Rick is far from perfect and he made one awful decision tonight, but let's not take it too far.

This is so hilarious to me. On the one hand you argue about how he must be doing more when it comes to strategy than just rolling the ball out there, and on the other hand you find something (in a win!) that was an "awful decision," regardless.

I wanna know where you guys went to logic school.

jthig32 · 04-17-2011, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

This is so hilarious to me. On the one hand you argue about how he must be doing more when it comes to strategy than just rolling the ball out there, and on the other hand you find something (in a win!) that was an "awful decision," regardless.

I wanna know where you guys went to logic school.

So a win means that every decision he made was correct? How is that logical?

kg_veteran · 04-17-2011, 12:29 AM

Good night, boys and girls. Looking forward to a win on Tuesday night...

Go Mavs!

CadBane · 04-17-2011, 12:29 AM

When the awful decision is that egregious, people are going to take note. Part of it is that is was just a plum STUPID decision. I'm not going to blame RC if he makes a rationale decision, and it just backfires. But playing JJB-Terry-Kidd, and JJB for 6 minutes in the FOURTH QUARTER? Yeah, that is going to draw ire, and rightfully so.

Mavsfan4ever · 04-17-2011, 12:32 AM

Rick need to play Brewer in place of JJB in game 2. Brewers size will give us more defense then JJB can provide.

chumdawg · 04-17-2011, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

So a win means that every decision he made was correct? How is that logical?

It should be your starting point. Unless you think the Mavs are that much better than the Blazers that they could give them a considerable spot and still win.

Myself, I think the teams are closer than that.

Usually Lurkin · 04-17-2011, 12:33 AM

This game had ref-controlled point-shaving written all over it. They allowed the beatings through the first half to keep it from being a blow out. Then they gave Dirk the super star calls at the end. The weird call on Marion at the end was all about trying to beat the spread. One of those refs is going to get threatened by his mob connection tonight for not keeping it close enough.

Dirkadirkastan · 04-17-2011, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...7130&start=150

Listen to their broadcast, and you will realize how their minds have been poisoned.

chumdawg · 04-17-2011, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

But playing JJB-Terry-Kidd, and JJB for 6 minutes in the FOURTH QUARTER? Yeah, that is going to draw ire, and rightfully so.

And if JJB hits a three, or penetrates and draws a foul (to get us closer to the bonus), which is something no one else who would play in his place can do nearly as well as he can...or if he draws an offensive foul...then does that draw your ire?

You are so guilty of hindsight bias, in this case.

Thomas86 · 04-17-2011, 12:36 AM

Mavs might want to keep on eye on Wesley Matthews for game 2...

grndmstr_c · 04-17-2011, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavsfan4ever

Rick need to play Brewer in place of JJB in game 2. Brewers size will give us more defense then JJB can provide.

If you're so tired that you can't think straight you should probably just go to bed.

CadBane · 04-17-2011, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

And if JJB hits a three, or penetrates and draws a foul (to get us closer to the bonus), which is something no one else who would play in his place can do nearly as well as he can...or if he draws an offensive foul...then does that draw your ire?

You are so guilty of hindsight bias, in this case.

How is it hindsight when I was screaming for it in the present???

I don't care if he hit a three or drew a charge, he was a liability on both ends, particularly on defense. Everyone knew it. Portland was posting him almost every play. So no, I never wanted him in there with Kidd and Terry. It's stupid, any way you slice it.

CadBane · 04-17-2011, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas86

Mavs might want to keep on eye on Wesley Matthews for game 2...

Underrated point. He was quiet as a mouse because of early foul trouble. Watch out for him.