Damned... Detroit Fans are Trash. - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

rakesh.s · 11-20-2004, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s
I can't believe everyone keeps saying it's a flagrant foul on artest. That's just because it's artest..

Look at the foul, he hit wallace's arm to prevent a dunk. He plays hard and no easy baskets.

Wallace didn't land akwardly and he didn't face a career threatening injury. Step to the line and make Ft's and walk away.

If this same foul is committed by another player, it's a "hard foul"......BS

A flagrant foul where unnecessary and/or excessive contact occurs. Artest made no play on the ball so the play can be easily categorized as unnecessary. You don't have to hurt someone or even attempt to hurt someone for a flagrant foul to be called. The way a flagrant foul is usually called is when a player is in the air going for a shot and the defender makes absolutely no play on the ball. The Artest foul was unnecessary and he made absolutely no play on the ball.

please..

you and i know both have seen harder fouls which have not been flagrants..

at this point you just sound biased against artest for no good reason

any other player commits this foul, it isn't flagrant

ben wallace is probably pissed because it was his chance for glory and a chance to get the crowd fired up and artest didn't let him have it at the end of the game..i would've done the same thing....you aren't dunking on me...end of the game, step up and make your FT's

FilthyFinMavs · 11-20-2004, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC

Quote:

That white kid deserved exactly what he got. I recommend you rewatch what happened. No one is getting off on watching this crap happen but the fans of Detroit don't deserve any sympathy. You can defend them all you want but they deserve what they got.

You've already acknowledged that the first kid Artest went after did not appear to be the person who threw the beer. So he deserved to be punched for laughing that Artest had beer poured on him? You sure have a different set of values than I do, buddy, and I think it's pretty clear where it's rooted.

Let's just say I sure hope Artest gets what's coming to him, and you can be damned sure you know where I'm coming from.

That's not the guy i'm referring to. I'm referring to the one who walked up to Artest looking for a fight as if he was going to kick a guys ass whose two times his size. As far as the first guy goes i'm not really sure if Artest hit the right guy so i'm going to hold judgement on that one. But if he's the one who threw the beer at Artest than he also got what he deserved. I know the fans pay to watch players play but that's where it ends. They don't get some pass to hit or throw beers and chairs at players because they paid to get into the game.

Murphy3 · 11-20-2004, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s
I can't believe everyone keeps saying it's a flagrant foul on artest. That's just because it's artest..

Look at the foul, he hit wallace's arm to prevent a dunk. He plays hard and no easy baskets.

Wallace didn't land akwardly and he didn't face a career threatening injury. Step to the line and make Ft's and walk away.

If this same foul is committed by another player, it's a "hard foul"......BS

A flagrant foul where unnecessary and/or excessive contact occurs. Artest made no play on the ball so the play can be easily categorized as unnecessary. You don't have to hurt someone or even attempt to hurt someone for a flagrant foul to be called. The way a flagrant foul is usually called is when a player is in the air going for a shot and the defender makes absolutely no play on the ball. The Artest foul was unnecessary and he made absolutely no play on the ball.

please..

you and i know both have seen harder fouls which have not been flagrants..

at this point you just sound biased against artest for no good reason

any other player commits this foul, it isn't flagrant

ben wallace is probably pissed because it was his chance for glory and a chance to get the crowd fired up and artest didn't let him have it at the end of the game..i would've done the same thing....you aren't dunking on me...end of the game, step up and make your FT's

It's not always about how hard the foul is. It is often about unnecessary contact when a player is going up for a slam/layup. I've seen much less called a Flagrant foul whena player is going up for a layup/slam.
It was unnecessary because he made NO play on the ball when a player was going up for the attempt. He pushed Wallace and then swatted in the direction of his head making no play at the ball.

mavs413 · 11-20-2004, 01:24 AM

It sucks that there were so many good games today in the NBA and everybody is going to be talking about this. Lakers/Suns, Jazz/Heat, Mavs/Knicks, Kings/Grizz, all were great games but we are all going to be watching people fighting instead of great highlights, too bad.

FilthyFinMavs · 11-20-2004, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: mavs413
It sucks that there were so many good games today in the NBA and everybody is going to be talking about this. Lakers/Suns, Jazz/Heat, Mavs/Knicks, Kings/Grizz, all were great games but we are all going to be watching people fighting instead of great highlights, too bad.

IMO, there was nothing stellar about the Knicks game. I guess if you're a Knicks fan.....

GoPistons · 11-20-2004, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC

Quote:

That white kid deserved exactly what he got. I recommend you rewatch what happened. No one is getting off on watching this crap happen but the fans of Detroit don't deserve any sympathy. You can defend them all you want but they deserve what they got.

You've already acknowledged that the first kid Artest went after did not appear to be the person who threw the beer. So he deserved to be punched for laughing that Artest had beer poured on him? You sure have a different set of values than I do, buddy, and I think it's pretty clear where it's rooted.

Let's just say I sure hope Artest gets what's coming to him, and you can be damned sure you know where I'm coming from.

That's not the guy i'm referring to. I'm referring to the one who walked up to Artest looking for a fight as if he was going to kick a guys ass whose two times his size. As far as the first guy goes i'm not really sure if Artest hit the right guy so i'm going to hold judgement on that one. But if he's the one who threw the beer at Artest than he also got what he deserved. I know the fans pay to watch players play but that's where it ends. They don't get some pass to hit or throw beers and chairs at players because they paid to get into the game.

if someone twice as small as u comes up to u and actes like if he could kick ur ass ur not necessarily gonna beat the shit outta him, ud prolly laugh and jus walk away or jus talk to him first or something, artest decides to punch the guy in the face....fans dont hav a pass to throw beer, players arent payed to beat up fans

GoPistons · 11-20-2004, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s
I can't believe everyone keeps saying it's a flagrant foul on artest. That's just because it's artest..

Look at the foul, he hit wallace's arm to prevent a dunk. He plays hard and no easy baskets.

Wallace didn't land akwardly and he didn't face a career threatening injury. Step to the line and make Ft's and walk away.

If this same foul is committed by another player, it's a "hard foul"......BS

A flagrant foul where unnecessary and/or excessive contact occurs. Artest made no play on the ball so the play can be easily categorized as unnecessary. You don't have to hurt someone or even attempt to hurt someone for a flagrant foul to be called. The way a flagrant foul is usually called is when a player is in the air going for a shot and the defender makes absolutely no play on the ball. The Artest foul was unnecessary and he made absolutely no play on the ball.

please..

you and i know both have seen harder fouls which have not been flagrants..

at this point you just sound biased against artest for no good reason

any other player commits this foul, it isn't flagrant

ben wallace is probably pissed because it was his chance for glory and a chance to get the crowd fired up and artest didn't let him have it at the end of the game..i would've done the same thing....you aren't dunking on me...end of the game, step up and make your FT's

it all started cuz it was an unecessary hard foul by artest, if he jus let ben dunk and they win there woulda been no fiasco, but artest jus decided that he was gonna foul while up by 15 with 45 seconds.....

FilthyFinMavs · 11-20-2004, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: GoPistons

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC

Quote:

That white kid deserved exactly what he got. I recommend you rewatch what happened. No one is getting off on watching this crap happen but the fans of Detroit don't deserve any sympathy. You can defend them all you want but they deserve what they got.

You've already acknowledged that the first kid Artest went after did not appear to be the person who threw the beer. So he deserved to be punched for laughing that Artest had beer poured on him? You sure have a different set of values than I do, buddy, and I think it's pretty clear where it's rooted.

Let's just say I sure hope Artest gets what's coming to him, and you can be damned sure you know where I'm coming from.

That's not the guy i'm referring to. I'm referring to the one who walked up to Artest looking for a fight as if he was going to kick a guys ass whose two times his size. As far as the first guy goes i'm not really sure if Artest hit the right guy so i'm going to hold judgement on that one. But if he's the one who threw the beer at Artest than he also got what he deserved. I know the fans pay to watch players play but that's where it ends. They don't get some pass to hit or throw beers and chairs at players because they paid to get into the game.

if someone twice as small as u comes up to u and actes like if he could kick ur ass ur not necessarily gonna beat the shit outta him, ud prolly laugh and jus walk away or jus talk to him first or something, artest decides to punch the guy in the face....fans dont hav a pass to throw beer, players arent payed to beat up fans

It matters. If i'm at a club or at the basketball court i'd probably walk it off and ignore the guy. But if i'm getting harrassed and jumped on by fans and all of a sudden some guy comes out of nowhere and runs up on me i'm going to deck him. I'm not trying to sound like a thug but I mean if a guy ran up on me first thing i'm thinking does he have some sort of weapon on him. Why would some guy who comes to my waist line run up on me? I'm sorry Pistons fan but you guys are just as wrong as the players are in this situation.

rakesh.s · 11-20-2004, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: GoPistons

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s
I can't believe everyone keeps saying it's a flagrant foul on artest. That's just because it's artest..

Look at the foul, he hit wallace's arm to prevent a dunk. He plays hard and no easy baskets.

Wallace didn't land akwardly and he didn't face a career threatening injury. Step to the line and make Ft's and walk away.

If this same foul is committed by another player, it's a "hard foul"......BS

A flagrant foul where unnecessary and/or excessive contact occurs. Artest made no play on the ball so the play can be easily categorized as unnecessary. You don't have to hurt someone or even attempt to hurt someone for a flagrant foul to be called. The way a flagrant foul is usually called is when a player is in the air going for a shot and the defender makes absolutely no play on the ball. The Artest foul was unnecessary and he made absolutely no play on the ball.

please..

you and i know both have seen harder fouls which have not been flagrants..

at this point you just sound biased against artest for no good reason

any other player commits this foul, it isn't flagrant

ben wallace is probably pissed because it was his chance for glory and a chance to get the crowd fired up and artest didn't let him have it at the end of the game..i would've done the same thing....you aren't dunking on me...end of the game, step up and make your FT's

it all started cuz it was an unecessary hard foul by artest, if he jus let ben dunk and they win there woulda been no fiasco, but artest jus decided that he was gonna foul while up by 15 with 45 seconds.....

lol..i can't believe a pistons fan registers and starts posting this kind of biased crap..please

if you are going to try and dunk, i am going to swat that away..i don't care what the score is...why does larry brown have his starters in down by 15 and 1 min to go??

rakesh.s · 11-20-2004, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s
I can't believe everyone keeps saying it's a flagrant foul on artest. That's just because it's artest..

Look at the foul, he hit wallace's arm to prevent a dunk. He plays hard and no easy baskets.

Wallace didn't land akwardly and he didn't face a career threatening injury. Step to the line and make Ft's and walk away.

If this same foul is committed by another player, it's a "hard foul"......BS

A flagrant foul where unnecessary and/or excessive contact occurs. Artest made no play on the ball so the play can be easily categorized as unnecessary. You don't have to hurt someone or even attempt to hurt someone for a flagrant foul to be called. The way a flagrant foul is usually called is when a player is in the air going for a shot and the defender makes absolutely no play on the ball. The Artest foul was unnecessary and he made absolutely no play on the ball.

please..

you and i know both have seen harder fouls which have not been flagrants..

at this point you just sound biased against artest for no good reason

any other player commits this foul, it isn't flagrant

ben wallace is probably pissed because it was his chance for glory and a chance to get the crowd fired up and artest didn't let him have it at the end of the game..i would've done the same thing....you aren't dunking on me...end of the game, step up and make your FT's

It's not always about how hard the foul is. It is often about unnecessary contact when a player is going up for a slam/layup. I've seen much less called a Flagrant foul whena player is going up for a layup/slam.
It was unnecessary because he made NO play on the ball when a player was going up for the attempt. He pushed Wallace and then swatted in the direction of his head making no play at the ball.

there have been harder fouls by players not named Artest....you're blindly biased to artest..plain and simple

i don't feel the need to keep repeating the same thing over and over again because you try to define a flagrant based on your artest bias..you're not looking at it from a neutral standpoint

you're no better than "gopistons" or whatever the hell his name is

Murphy3 · 11-20-2004, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s

Quote:

Originally posted by: GoPistons

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s
I can't believe everyone keeps saying it's a flagrant foul on artest. That's just because it's artest..

Look at the foul, he hit wallace's arm to prevent a dunk. He plays hard and no easy baskets.

Wallace didn't land akwardly and he didn't face a career threatening injury. Step to the line and make Ft's and walk away.

If this same foul is committed by another player, it's a "hard foul"......BS

A flagrant foul where unnecessary and/or excessive contact occurs. Artest made no play on the ball so the play can be easily categorized as unnecessary. You don't have to hurt someone or even attempt to hurt someone for a flagrant foul to be called. The way a flagrant foul is usually called is when a player is in the air going for a shot and the defender makes absolutely no play on the ball. The Artest foul was unnecessary and he made absolutely no play on the ball.

please..

you and i know both have seen harder fouls which have not been flagrants..

at this point you just sound biased against artest for no good reason

any other player commits this foul, it isn't flagrant

ben wallace is probably pissed because it was his chance for glory and a chance to get the crowd fired up and artest didn't let him have it at the end of the game..i would've done the same thing....you aren't dunking on me...end of the game, step up and make your FT's

it all started cuz it was an unecessary hard foul by artest, if he jus let ben dunk and they win there woulda been no fiasco, but artest jus decided that he was gonna foul while up by 15 with 45 seconds.....

lol..i can't believe a pistons fan registers and starts posting this kind of biased crap..please

if you are going to try and dunk, i am going to swat that away..i don't care what the score is...why does larry brown have his starters in down by 15 and 1 min to go??

He made no F'ing attempt to swat it away.

GoPistons · 11-20-2004, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: GoPistons

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC

Quote:

That white kid deserved exactly what he got. I recommend you rewatch what happened. No one is getting off on watching this crap happen but the fans of Detroit don't deserve any sympathy. You can defend them all you want but they deserve what they got.

You've already acknowledged that the first kid Artest went after did not appear to be the person who threw the beer. So he deserved to be punched for laughing that Artest had beer poured on him? You sure have a different set of values than I do, buddy, and I think it's pretty clear where it's rooted.

Let's just say I sure hope Artest gets what's coming to him, and you can be damned sure you know where I'm coming from.

That's not the guy i'm referring to. I'm referring to the one who walked up to Artest looking for a fight as if he was going to kick a guys ass whose two times his size. As far as the first guy goes i'm not really sure if Artest hit the right guy so i'm going to hold judgement on that one. But if he's the one who threw the beer at Artest than he also got what he deserved. I know the fans pay to watch players play but that's where it ends. They don't get some pass to hit or throw beers and chairs at players because they paid to get into the game.

if someone twice as small as u comes up to u and actes like if he could kick ur ass ur not necessarily gonna beat the shit outta him, ud prolly laugh and jus walk away or jus talk to him first or something, artest decides to punch the guy in the face....fans dont hav a pass to throw beer, players arent payed to beat up fans

It matters. If i'm at a club or at the basketball court i'd probably walk it off and ignore the guy. But if i'm getting harrassed and jumped on by fans and all of a sudden some guy comes out of nowhere and runs up on me i'm going to deck him. I'm not trying to sound like a thug but I mean if a guy ran up on me first thing i'm thinking does he have some sort of weapon on him. Why would some guy who comes to my waist line run up on me? I'm sorry Pistons fan but you guys are just as wrong as the players are in this situation.

well from the video it seems the guy was jus walking and mayb heckling, but that doesnt justify what JO and artest did to that fan....

Misfit Mav · 11-20-2004, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
I'm sorry Pistons fan but you guys are just as wrong as the players are in this situation.

Definitely. Everybody comes out of this one looking terrible.

Murphy3 · 11-20-2004, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: GoPistons

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: GoPistons

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC

Quote:

That white kid deserved exactly what he got. I recommend you rewatch what happened. No one is getting off on watching this crap happen but the fans of Detroit don't deserve any sympathy. You can defend them all you want but they deserve what they got.

You've already acknowledged that the first kid Artest went after did not appear to be the person who threw the beer. So he deserved to be punched for laughing that Artest had beer poured on him? You sure have a different set of values than I do, buddy, and I think it's pretty clear where it's rooted.

Let's just say I sure hope Artest gets what's coming to him, and you can be damned sure you know where I'm coming from.

That's not the guy i'm referring to. I'm referring to the one who walked up to Artest looking for a fight as if he was going to kick a guys ass whose two times his size. As far as the first guy goes i'm not really sure if Artest hit the right guy so i'm going to hold judgement on that one. But if he's the one who threw the beer at Artest than he also got what he deserved. I know the fans pay to watch players play but that's where it ends. They don't get some pass to hit or throw beers and chairs at players because they paid to get into the game.

if someone twice as small as u comes up to u and actes like if he could kick ur ass ur not necessarily gonna beat the shit outta him, ud prolly laugh and jus walk away or jus talk to him first or something, artest decides to punch the guy in the face....fans dont hav a pass to throw beer, players arent payed to beat up fans

It matters. If i'm at a club or at the basketball court i'd probably walk it off and ignore the guy. But if i'm getting harrassed and jumped on by fans and all of a sudden some guy comes out of nowhere and runs up on me i'm going to deck him. I'm not trying to sound like a thug but I mean if a guy ran up on me first thing i'm thinking does he have some sort of weapon on him. Why would some guy who comes to my waist line run up on me? I'm sorry Pistons fan but you guys are just as wrong as the players are in this situation.

well from the video it seems the guy was jus walking and mayb heckling, but that doesnt justify what JO and artest did to that fan....

ESPN did report earlier that Artest didn't even go after the right guy. We'll see what develops with that.

GoPistons · 11-20-2004, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s

Quote:

Originally posted by: GoPistons

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Quote:

Originally posted by: rakesh.s
I can't believe everyone keeps saying it's a flagrant foul on artest. That's just because it's artest..

Look at the foul, he hit wallace's arm to prevent a dunk. He plays hard and no easy baskets.

Wallace didn't land akwardly and he didn't face a career threatening injury. Step to the line and make Ft's and walk away.

If this same foul is committed by another player, it's a "hard foul"......BS

A flagrant foul where unnecessary and/or excessive contact occurs. Artest made no play on the ball so the play can be easily categorized as unnecessary. You don't have to hurt someone or even attempt to hurt someone for a flagrant foul to be called. The way a flagrant foul is usually called is when a player is in the air going for a shot and the defender makes absolutely no play on the ball. The Artest foul was unnecessary and he made absolutely no play on the ball.

please..

you and i know both have seen harder fouls which have not been flagrants..

at this point you just sound biased against artest for no good reason

any other player commits this foul, it isn't flagrant

ben wallace is probably pissed because it was his chance for glory and a chance to get the crowd fired up and artest didn't let him have it at the end of the game..i would've done the same thing....you aren't dunking on me...end of the game, step up and make your FT's

it all started cuz it was an unecessary hard foul by artest, if he jus let ben dunk and they win there woulda been no fiasco, but artest jus decided that he was gonna foul while up by 15 with 45 seconds.....

lol..i can't believe a pistons fan registers and starts posting this kind of biased crap..please

if you are going to try and dunk, i am going to swat that away..i don't care what the score is...why does larry brown have his starters in down by 15 and 1 min to go??

well isnt most of what u post biased also??? i mean this is a mavs forum so im guessing ur a mavs fan supporting the mavs....im doing exactly that supporting my team....

aexchange · 11-20-2004, 01:53 AM

after reviewing the footage,

wallace probably deserves a 3 game suspension for inciting the riot.

artest deserves a minimum of a 20 game suspension for going into the crowd, decking multiple people and creating mass hysteria. jackson needs to be banned permanently from the league. the nba doesnt need a thug like him. o'neal deserves a 20 game suspension as well. having him blind side a fan who clearly wasnt even trying to attack him is totally classless.

FilthyFinMavs · 11-20-2004, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: GoPistons

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: GoPistons

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC

Quote:

That white kid deserved exactly what he got. I recommend you rewatch what happened. No one is getting off on watching this crap happen but the fans of Detroit don't deserve any sympathy. You can defend them all you want but they deserve what they got.

You've already acknowledged that the first kid Artest went after did not appear to be the person who threw the beer. So he deserved to be punched for laughing that Artest had beer poured on him? You sure have a different set of values than I do, buddy, and I think it's pretty clear where it's rooted.

Let's just say I sure hope Artest gets what's coming to him, and you can be damned sure you know where I'm coming from.

That's not the guy i'm referring to. I'm referring to the one who walked up to Artest looking for a fight as if he was going to kick a guys ass whose two times his size. As far as the first guy goes i'm not really sure if Artest hit the right guy so i'm going to hold judgement on that one. But if he's the one who threw the beer at Artest than he also got what he deserved. I know the fans pay to watch players play but that's where it ends. They don't get some pass to hit or throw beers and chairs at players because they paid to get into the game.

if someone twice as small as u comes up to u and actes like if he could kick ur ass ur not necessarily gonna beat the shit outta him, ud prolly laugh and jus walk away or jus talk to him first or something, artest decides to punch the guy in the face....fans dont hav a pass to throw beer, players arent payed to beat up fans

It matters. If i'm at a club or at the basketball court i'd probably walk it off and ignore the guy. But if i'm getting harrassed and jumped on by fans and all of a sudden some guy comes out of nowhere and runs up on me i'm going to deck him. I'm not trying to sound like a thug but I mean if a guy ran up on me first thing i'm thinking does he have some sort of weapon on him. Why would some guy who comes to my waist line run up on me? I'm sorry Pistons fan but you guys are just as wrong as the players are in this situation.

well from the video it seems the guy was jus walking and mayb heckling, but that doesnt justify what JO and artest did to that fan....

No, it doesn't justify at all. I stated above these guys deserve a harsh suspension and should be dealt with. The fans are also in the and from what I saw from the tape that guy had his fist up ready to rumble with Artest. If he didn't want to fight he should've ran. Everyone involved is in the wrong here and i'll be the first to say i'm so glad no kids were injured during this. I hate they had to watch this but it's great to hear no kid was injured. As african americans we will never get rid of these stereotypes if guys keep acting like this.

Lvubun1 · 11-20-2004, 01:58 AM

I'm no Pacer fan but I'm 99% behind them on this.

- Their wasn't anything bad about the foul, that kinda of foul happens in every game, no need for Wallace to get upset and to push the fan in the face.

- At that point it was pretty much over, Artest was laying back on the scorers table, he was calm, wasn't trying to get back at Wallace then he was hit with a cup of beer. For the people who think Artest is wrong if your walking down the street minding your business and somebody walks up to you, verbally abuses you and throws a cup of beer in your face, what you gonna do? Wipe the beer off your face and say "Your not a nice person, here's your cup back" No, Artest isn't the first pro-athelete to have something thrown at him, but Basketball is a different beast because no other sport are the players so close to the fans, the fans actually sit on the playing surface, not Baseball, not, Hockey, not Football. The fan doesn't throw that cup, none of this happens, period. Just because they are rich doesn't mean they have a greater tolerence for being disrespected.

- Artest did attack the wrong fan, that's the one thing he did wrong, obviously when your angry cause somebody threw something at you, your not gonna run up to the stands and say "Hello sir, excuse me, I was just wondering if you were the person who threw that cup at me?" That fan wasn't hurt, i'm sure Ron will apologize and send him a autographed ball or something, but at that point it was pretty much over. Ron was getting pulled back, then the fan that did hit Ron with the cup started to strike him in the face with his fist, once again, even if you don't think he was right going after the fan after getting hit with the cup, if somebody hits you twice in the face, you don't say "thank you sir, can i have another" you defend yourself.

- As you look further, Freddie Jones who wasn't trying to do anything other to pull back his teammate, got knocked multiple times right in the face.

- After the players are back on the court, a fan goes right up to Artest's face so he clocks him, nothing wrong with that, if he didn't hit him first he probably would have gotten hit. O'neal then hits another fan, from what I have seen the fan was getting up and wasn't much of a threat so that was wrong.

- Then another fan throws a chair at O'neal, I don't need to tell you if that would've connected how serious he might have been injured. Then was they are going into the locker room, the were pelted with cups, glass, plastic and whatever else the fan could find to throw.

What should happen. O'neal 7 games. Jackson 7 games. Wallace 5 games. Artest 7 games. The fan who first threw the cup, the large man who stuck Freddie Jones, and any other fans who threw punches should be charged with assault, solely to show other stupid fans that they can't attack players and get away with it.

FilthyFinMavs · 11-20-2004, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: aexchange
after reviewing the footage,

wallace probably deserves a 3 game suspension for inciting the riot.

artest deserves a minimum of a 20 game suspension for going into the crowd, decking multiple people and creating mass hysteria. jackson needs to be banned permanently from the league. the nba doesnt need a thug like him. o'neal deserves a 20 game suspension as well. having him blind side a fan who clearly wasnt even trying to attack him is totally classless.

I sort of agree with this but when I look at it I get get the impression that Wallace is getting off too easy. What Wallace did doesn't even deserve a suspension just what happen afterwards is why I would give him the suspension and 3 games compared to the rest of the players getting 20 makes it seem like Wallace is getting off easy. I can't think of anything better though. I think this is going to end up being the result of the situation except I think SJax gets the same amount of games out as Artest.

Murphy3 · 11-20-2004, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: aexchange
after reviewing the footage,

wallace probably deserves a 3 game suspension for inciting the riot.

artest deserves a minimum of a 20 game suspension for going into the crowd, decking multiple people and creating mass hysteria. jackson needs to be banned permanently from the league. the nba doesnt need a thug like him. o'neal deserves a 20 game suspension as well. having him blind side a fan who clearly wasnt even trying to attack him is totally classless.

What O'Neal did to the fan that wasn't even standing up on the court is disturbing.

AEX, there's not a chance in hell that the NBA suspends the players for as long as you've suggested....But, I couldn't agree with you more.

Evilmav2 · 11-20-2004, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: GoPistons

well from the video it seems the guy was jus walking and mayb heckling, but that doesnt justify what JO and artest did to that fan....

Idiot.

It should be incredibly threatening for any NBA player to see fans coming down on the court looking to fight; far more more so than just having to endure crap and profanity being thrown at you. Both of those two Piston's fans might well have been "half the size of Artest", or they might have been "jus walking and mayb heckling", but two aggresssive, threatening fans coming down to the court to threateningly advance and yell at Pacers players could have easily become 50 or 100 if the situation continued to degenerate, and in that sense Artest and O'Neal were absolutely, completely within their rights of self-defense when they swung at those clowns. Jermaine and Ron deserve a pass for that particular part of the melee, and I think the league and the local prosecuter will agree with me there...

FilthyFinMavs · 11-20-2004, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
I'm no Pacer fan but I'm 99% behind them on this.

- Their wasn't anything bad about the foul, that kinda of foul happens in every game, no need for Wallace to get upset and to push the fan in the face.

- At that point it was pretty much over, Artest was laying back on the scorers table, he was calm, wasn't trying to get back at Wallace then he was hit with a cup of beer. For the people who think Artest is wrong if your walking down the street minding your business and somebody walks up to you, verbally abuses you and throws a cup of beer in your face, what you gonna do? Wipe the beer off your face and say "Your not a nice person, here's your cup back" No, Artest isn't the first pro-athelete to have something thrown at him, but Basketball is a different beast because no other sport are the players so close to the fans, the fans actually sit on the playing surface, not Baseball, not, Hockey, not Football. The fan doesn't throw that cup, none of this happens, period. Just because they are rich doesn't mean they have a greater tolerence for being disrespected.

- Artest did attack the wrong fan, that's the one thing he did wrong, obviously when your angry cause somebody threw something at you, your not gonna run up to the stands and say "Hello sir, excuse me, I was just wondering if you were the person who threw that cup at me?" That fan wasn't hurt, i'm sure Ron will apologize and send him a autographed ball or something, but at that point it was pretty much over. Ron was getting pulled back, then the fan that did hit Ron with the cup started to strike him in the face with his fist, once again, even if you don't think he was right going after the fan after getting hit with the cup, if somebody hits you twice in the face, you don't say "thank you sir, can i have another" you defend yourself.

- As you look further, Freddie Jones who wasn't trying to do anything other to pull back his teammate, got knocked multiple times right in the face.

- After the players are back on the court, a fan goes right up to Artest's face so he clocks him, nothing wrong with that, if he didn't hit him first he probably would have gotten hit. O'neal then hits another fan, from what I have seen the fan was getting up and wasn't much of a threat so that was wrong.

- Then another fan throws a chair at O'neal, I don't need to tell you if that would've connected how serious he might have been injured. Then was they are going into the locker room, the were pelted with cups, glass, plastic and whatever else the fan could find to throw.

What should happen. O'neal 3 games. Jackson 3 games. Wallace 2 games. Artest 2 games. The fan who first threw the cup, the large man who stuck Freddie Jones, and any other fans who threw punches should be charged with assault, solely to show other stupid fans that they can't attack players and get away with it.

Damn 3 games lol? I think if that happens there will be a riot in Detroit lol.

Murphy3 · 11-20-2004, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: aexchange
after reviewing the footage,

wallace probably deserves a 3 game suspension for inciting the riot.

artest deserves a minimum of a 20 game suspension for going into the crowd, decking multiple people and creating mass hysteria. jackson needs to be banned permanently from the league. the nba doesnt need a thug like him. o'neal deserves a 20 game suspension as well. having him blind side a fan who clearly wasnt even trying to attack him is totally classless.

I sort of agree with this but when I look at it I get get the impression that Wallace is getting off too easy. What Wallace did doesn't even deserve a suspension just what happen afterwards is why I would give him the suspension and 3 games compared to the rest of the players getting 20 makes it seem like Wallace is getting off easy. I can't think of anything better though. I think this is going to end up being the result of the situation except I think SJax gets the same amount of games out as Artest.

Wallace's suspension should be tied-in to what later occurred. He should be suspended for exactly what he did...for pushing/hitting Artest.

Nash13 · 11-20-2004, 02:03 AM

Rake, i don't think the question is why Brown had his starters in, because they were trying to make the game look respectable. The question is why was Artest and Jackson in the game? They had an a big league with less than a minute left.

Another thing, and this isn't directed toward anybody. When you're physically assaulted, you have a natural right to defend yourself. Now if the gov't considers spitting on someone assault, then they should view throwing beverages at someone as an assault too. So that's my reason why i don't think Artest or Jackson should get suspended/arrested for what they did.

I'm going to be mad if any player gets arrested because they didn't provoke any of this.

Murphy3 · 11-20-2004, 02:04 AM

edit

Lvubun1 · 11-20-2004, 02:04 AM

Like i said in my post, I'm behind the Pacers in this besides O'neal's cheap shot on the fan. With that being said, he was on the court, not sure about you but if I was their I would not have been anyway near that court, I would've been at the snack bar getting a Superpretzel. And we don't know why the fan was on the court, I'm sure their is alot more footage yet to be seen.

Murphy3 · 11-20-2004, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
Like i said in my post, I'm behind the Pacers in this besides O'neal's cheap shot on the fan. With that being said, he was on the court, not sure about you but if I was their I would not have been anyway near that court, I would've been at the snack bar getting a Superpretzel. And we don't know why the fan was on the court, I'm sure their is alot more footage yet to be seen.

How can anyone be behind either party? It makes no sense to take either side....none.

Misfit Mav · 11-20-2004, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
The fan who first threw the cup, the large man who stuck Freddie Jones, and any other fans who threw punches should be charged with assault, solely to show other stupid fans that they can't attack players and get away with it.

Absolutely, but if Artest threw punches at random hecklers those are assaults as well. People should press charges if they were struck without anything but verbal provocation.

Again, I haven't seen the footage, but from what I'm hearing it sounds like Artest attacked several fans in the crowd.

Lvubun1 · 11-20-2004, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
I'm no Pacer fan but I'm 99% behind them on this.

- Their wasn't anything bad about the foul, that kinda of foul happens in every game, no need for Wallace to get upset and to push the fan in the face.

- At that point it was pretty much over, Artest was laying back on the scorers table, he was calm, wasn't trying to get back at Wallace then he was hit with a cup of beer. For the people who think Artest is wrong if your walking down the street minding your business and somebody walks up to you, verbally abuses you and throws a cup of beer in your face, what you gonna do? Wipe the beer off your face and say "Your not a nice person, here's your cup back" No, Artest isn't the first pro-athelete to have something thrown at him, but Basketball is a different beast because no other sport are the players so close to the fans, the fans actually sit on the playing surface, not Baseball, not, Hockey, not Football. The fan doesn't throw that cup, none of this happens, period. Just because they are rich doesn't mean they have a greater tolerence for being disrespected.

- Artest did attack the wrong fan, that's the one thing he did wrong, obviously when your angry cause somebody threw something at you, your not gonna run up to the stands and say "Hello sir, excuse me, I was just wondering if you were the person who threw that cup at me?" That fan wasn't hurt, i'm sure Ron will apologize and send him a autographed ball or something, but at that point it was pretty much over. Ron was getting pulled back, then the fan that did hit Ron with the cup started to strike him in the face with his fist, once again, even if you don't think he was right going after the fan after getting hit with the cup, if somebody hits you twice in the face, you don't say "thank you sir, can i have another" you defend yourself.

- As you look further, Freddie Jones who wasn't trying to do anything other to pull back his teammate, got knocked multiple times right in the face.

- After the players are back on the court, a fan goes right up to Artest's face so he clocks him, nothing wrong with that, if he didn't hit him first he probably would have gotten hit. O'neal then hits another fan, from what I have seen the fan was getting up and wasn't much of a threat so that was wrong.

- Then another fan throws a chair at O'neal, I don't need to tell you if that would've connected how serious he might have been injured. Then was they are going into the locker room, the were pelted with cups, glass, plastic and whatever else the fan could find to throw.

What should happen. O'neal 3 games. Jackson 3 games. Wallace 2 games. Artest 2 games. The fan who first threw the cup, the large man who stuck Freddie Jones, and any other fans who threw punches should be charged with assault, solely to show other stupid fans that they can't attack players and get away with it.

Damn 3 games lol? I think if that happens there will be a riot in Detroit lol.

At first I said 3 games because I thought that was the minumium suspension for leaving the bench, plus the NBA does have to lay down the law.

Murphy3 · 11-20-2004, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Misfit Mav

Quote:

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
The fan who first threw the cup, the large man who stuck Freddie Jones, and any other fans who threw punches should be charged with assault, solely to show other stupid fans that they can't attack players and get away with it.

Absolutely, but if Artest threw punches at random hecklers those are assaults as well. People should press charges if they were struck without anything but verbal provocation.

Again, I haven't seen the footage, but from what I'm hearing it sounds like Artest attacked several fans in the crowd.

And just because there might not be cause to file assault charges against Artest/Jackson does not mean that they still do not deserve a stiff suspension from the NBA. That being said, I do believe that it's likely that numerous players will be held liable in some manner or another in the court of law or by some sort of financial settlement.

Misfit Mav · 11-20-2004, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Nash13
When you're physically assaulted, you have a natural right to defend yourself. Now if the gov't considers spitting on someone assault, then they should view throwing beverages at someone as an assault too. So that's my reason why i don't think Artest or Jackson should get suspended/arrested for what they did.

I'm going to be mad if any player gets arrested because they didn't provoke any of this.

I'm probably the only person calling for charges to be brought against players here, so I may be out of line. You absolutely have the right to strike back if you are assaulted. But you do not have the right to attack an entire crowd if one person throws a beer at you. I have been at many concerts, for example, where I have been splashed with beer or hit with flying cups. I can't turn around and start punching people in the direction that the beer came from. If someone approached artest and hit him with something, and Artest punched him back, that's different. In this case, it sounds as if he was struck with a cup, and then started going after all the people heckling him. If that's the case, it was completely unwaranted and as much as an assault as those fans that attacked the players.

Murphy3 · 11-20-2004, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Lvubun1

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
I'm no Pacer fan but I'm 99% behind them on this.

- Their wasn't anything bad about the foul, that kinda of foul happens in every game, no need for Wallace to get upset and to push the fan in the face.

- At that point it was pretty much over, Artest was laying back on the scorers table, he was calm, wasn't trying to get back at Wallace then he was hit with a cup of beer. For the people who think Artest is wrong if your walking down the street minding your business and somebody walks up to you, verbally abuses you and throws a cup of beer in your face, what you gonna do? Wipe the beer off your face and say "Your not a nice person, here's your cup back" No, Artest isn't the first pro-athelete to have something thrown at him, but Basketball is a different beast because no other sport are the players so close to the fans, the fans actually sit on the playing surface, not Baseball, not, Hockey, not Football. The fan doesn't throw that cup, none of this happens, period. Just because they are rich doesn't mean they have a greater tolerence for being disrespected.

- Artest did attack the wrong fan, that's the one thing he did wrong, obviously when your angry cause somebody threw something at you, your not gonna run up to the stands and say "Hello sir, excuse me, I was just wondering if you were the person who threw that cup at me?" That fan wasn't hurt, i'm sure Ron will apologize and send him a autographed ball or something, but at that point it was pretty much over. Ron was getting pulled back, then the fan that did hit Ron with the cup started to strike him in the face with his fist, once again, even if you don't think he was right going after the fan after getting hit with the cup, if somebody hits you twice in the face, you don't say "thank you sir, can i have another" you defend yourself.

- As you look further, Freddie Jones who wasn't trying to do anything other to pull back his teammate, got knocked multiple times right in the face.

- After the players are back on the court, a fan goes right up to Artest's face so he clocks him, nothing wrong with that, if he didn't hit him first he probably would have gotten hit. O'neal then hits another fan, from what I have seen the fan was getting up and wasn't much of a threat so that was wrong.

- Then another fan throws a chair at O'neal, I don't need to tell you if that would've connected how serious he might have been injured. Then was they are going into the locker room, the were pelted with cups, glass, plastic and whatever else the fan could find to throw.

What should happen. O'neal 3 games. Jackson 3 games. Wallace 2 games. Artest 2 games. The fan who first threw the cup, the large man who stuck Freddie Jones, and any other fans who threw punches should be charged with assault, solely to show other stupid fans that they can't attack players and get away with it.

Damn 3 games lol? I think if that happens there will be a riot in Detroit lol.

At first I said 3 games because I thought that was the minumium suspension for leaving the bench, plus the NBA does have to lay down the law.

I hope that whoever decides on the suspension can come up with something a little more appropriate than what you've provided as far as suspensions go.

FilthyFinMavs · 11-20-2004, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Lvubun1

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
I'm no Pacer fan but I'm 99% behind them on this.

- Their wasn't anything bad about the foul, that kinda of foul happens in every game, no need for Wallace to get upset and to push the fan in the face.

- At that point it was pretty much over, Artest was laying back on the scorers table, he was calm, wasn't trying to get back at Wallace then he was hit with a cup of beer. For the people who think Artest is wrong if your walking down the street minding your business and somebody walks up to you, verbally abuses you and throws a cup of beer in your face, what you gonna do? Wipe the beer off your face and say "Your not a nice person, here's your cup back" No, Artest isn't the first pro-athelete to have something thrown at him, but Basketball is a different beast because no other sport are the players so close to the fans, the fans actually sit on the playing surface, not Baseball, not, Hockey, not Football. The fan doesn't throw that cup, none of this happens, period. Just because they are rich doesn't mean they have a greater tolerence for being disrespected.

- Artest did attack the wrong fan, that's the one thing he did wrong, obviously when your angry cause somebody threw something at you, your not gonna run up to the stands and say "Hello sir, excuse me, I was just wondering if you were the person who threw that cup at me?" That fan wasn't hurt, i'm sure Ron will apologize and send him a autographed ball or something, but at that point it was pretty much over. Ron was getting pulled back, then the fan that did hit Ron with the cup started to strike him in the face with his fist, once again, even if you don't think he was right going after the fan after getting hit with the cup, if somebody hits you twice in the face, you don't say "thank you sir, can i have another" you defend yourself.

- As you look further, Freddie Jones who wasn't trying to do anything other to pull back his teammate, got knocked multiple times right in the face.

- After the players are back on the court, a fan goes right up to Artest's face so he clocks him, nothing wrong with that, if he didn't hit him first he probably would have gotten hit. O'neal then hits another fan, from what I have seen the fan was getting up and wasn't much of a threat so that was wrong.

- Then another fan throws a chair at O'neal, I don't need to tell you if that would've connected how serious he might have been injured. Then was they are going into the locker room, the were pelted with cups, glass, plastic and whatever else the fan could find to throw.

What should happen. O'neal 3 games. Jackson 3 games. Wallace 2 games. Artest 2 games. The fan who first threw the cup, the large man who stuck Freddie Jones, and any other fans who threw punches should be charged with assault, solely to show other stupid fans that they can't attack players and get away with it.

Damn 3 games lol? I think if that happens there will be a riot in Detroit lol.

At first I said 3 games because I thought that was the minumium suspension for leaving the bench, plus the NBA does have to lay down the law.

I mean i'm saying I think that's too little. Pistons fans are going to want some sort of revenge. If the league suspends the players for a maximum of 3 games I think literally Detroit will pull a riot lol.

Lvubun1 · 11-20-2004, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Misfit Mav

Quote:

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
The fan who first threw the cup, the large man who stuck Freddie Jones, and any other fans who threw punches should be charged with assault, solely to show other stupid fans that they can't attack players and get away with it.

Absolutely, but if Artest threw punches at random hecklers those are assaults as well. People should press charges if they were struck without anything but verbal provocation.

Again, I haven't seen the footage, but from what I'm hearing it sounds like Artest attacked several fans in the crowd.

As far as i could see, every fan Artest attacked, provoked him first. Now O'Neal and Jackson might be different stories. And yes those people hit will want to go to court but I got this little hunch that they will want to go to Civil court and not criminal. Every fan hit, even if they deserved it, right now as we speak are on the phone with lawyers, getting their fake neck braces ready, in a attempt to get some of that NBA money. Artest better pray his rap album goes Platnium.

Nash13 · 11-20-2004, 02:19 AM

misfit, first of all, Artest didn't attack an entire crowd, he hit a guy who he thought threw beer on him, and a guy that came on court walking towards his direction. Artest admittedly attacked the wrong person, but it was the guy next to the guy he attacked who threw it. When he was hit with the drink, he wasn't looking in the direction. So i believe the guy should take it to court. But the guy who he attacked was in his face, and the guy that was with him threw beer at Artest and Jackson.

Misfit Mav · 11-20-2004, 02:20 AM

[quote]
Originally posted by: Lvubun1

Quote:

[i]
As far as i could see, every fan Artest attacked, provoked him first. Now O'Neal and Jackson might be different stories. And yes those people hit will want to go to court but I got this little hunch that they will want to go to Civil court and not criminal. Every fan hit, even if they deserved it, right now as we speak are on the phone with lawyers, getting their fake neck braces ready, in a attempt to get some of that NBA money. Artest better pray his rap album goes Platnium.

Provoked verbally or physically? You can't punch a guy for an insult, the law is very clear on that.

You're right about the money. I'm sure most people would rather get a cash settlement than press criminal charges. On the other hand, it could be very good publicity for Artest's album.

Murphy3 · 11-20-2004, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Nash13
misfit, first of all, Artest didn't attack an entire crowd, he hit a guy who he thought threw beer on him, and a guy that came on court walking towards his direction. Artest admittedly attacked the wrong person, but it was the guy next to the guy he attacked who threw it. When he was hit with the drink, he wasn't looking in the direction. So i believe the guy should take it to court. But the guy who he attacked was in his face, and the guy that was with him threw beer at Artest and Jackson.

The guy who Artest attacked WAS NOT in his face. He was jumping up and down like a goofy idiot, but he was NOT in Artests face. Artest went into the stands directly towards the guy....The guy wanted no part of Artest and did not get in his face. He was 15-20 feet away from Artest when Artest decided to go into the stands. That is hardly in his face. Plus, when he saw Artest coming his direction, he obviously wasn't attempting to start anything at that point either.

If it truly is the wrong guy, Artest is in even more serious sh!t.

dirno2000 · 11-20-2004, 02:36 AM

I would imagine that the next time these teams meet in Det., we're going to see a scene reminiscent of Yankees/Redsox game 6.

Dirkenstien · 11-20-2004, 02:42 AM

Expect record high television ratings for the NBA on December 25th (Christmas) ...Whoever decided this Christmas day schedule should be getting a raise.

Not only do you have Shaq going back to play the Lakers and Kobe for the first time since his departure, but you also have Indiana going back to Detroit again.

Saturday, December 25
MATCHUP TICKETS NAT TV TIME (ET)
Detroit at Indiana Tickets ESPN 12:30 PM
Miami at LA Lakers Tickets ABC 3:00 PM

Evilmav2 · 11-20-2004, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Provoked verbally or physically? You can't punch a guy for an insult, the law is very clear on that.

Sure, you can't punch a guy for merely insulting you, but you can use a reasonable degree of force to protect yourself from any person(s) who assault you. The actions that the first fan took in throwing threatening profanity and a full beer at Artest constitutes both assault and battery, thus the question of whether or not Artest used reasonable force to protect himself from the aggressor(s) in the crowd is something that only a court of law can decide.

Assault:
[i]A crime that occurs when one person tries to physically harm another in a way that makes the person under attack feel immediately threatened. Actual physical contact is not necessary; threatening gestures that would alarm any reasonable person can constitute an assault.

Battery:
A crime consisting of physical contact that is intended to harm someone. Unintentional harmful contact is not battery, no mater how careless the behavior or how severe the injury. A fist fight is a common battery; being hit by a wild pitch in a baseball game is not.