So, who do you want to go forward with? - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 04-17-2013, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Include Carter in keepers.

He was already included by anyone who watched him this season.

nowhereman · 04-17-2013, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

You take an old Brand. I'll take Ian. Mavs had a bad year with Brand and he's not getting younger.

Dirk, Marion are keeper vets. Brand, M. James and Kaman are a waste of minutes.

I'll take an older version of an MVP candidate any day over a career backup, thanks. Ian would be the fourth stringer on this current Mavs team.

I'm not too impressed with his 10.8 PER and his 13.2 rebound rate.

spreedom · 04-17-2013, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

You take an old Brand. I'll take Ian. Mavs had a bad year with Brand and he's not getting younger.

Dirk, Marion are keeper vets. Brand, M. James and Kaman are a waste of minutes.

With Brand = .500, no playoffs
With Mahinmi = 65 wins, championship

nowhereman · 04-17-2013, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

With Brand = .500, no playoffs
With Mahinmi = 65 wins, championship

This is also why Mike James > Jason Kidd

jamaljasonandjimmy · 04-17-2013, 10:12 PM

jarrett jack and jj hickson would be good free agents 2 pick up

rmacomic · 04-17-2013, 10:41 PM

We should keep Dirk, Wright, Marion, and as much as I hate to admit it, Carter. However, if Carter ends up being our best player next year, I will personally drive to Dallas, find Mark Cuban, and shit in his pillowcase. Brand would make a nice 3rd string big, Collison would be a nice 3rd string guard / change of pace type player for a minimal contract, and I am still interested to see what Morrow could bring. Everyone else on the team could roll around in barbwire with Magic Johnson for all I care.

saclare · 04-17-2013, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

We should keep Dirk, Wright, Marion, and as much as I hate to admit it, Carter. However, if Carter ends up being our best player next year, I will personally drive to Dallas, find Mark Cuban, and shit in his pillowcase. Brand would make a nice 3rd string big, Collison would be a nice 3rd string guard / change of pace type player for a minimal contract, and I am still interested to see what Morrow could bring. Everyone else on the team could roll around in barbwire with Magic Johnson for all I care.

Why would you "hate" to admit to wanting Carter back? He is easily the most valuable contract to production player in the NBA. The dude has been nothing short of a steal for us.

rmacomic · 04-17-2013, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Why would you "hate" to admit to wanting Carter back? He is easily the most valuable contract to production player in the NBA. The dude has been nothing short of a steal for us.

I have issues with Carter. I hate that he was our best player, and I still don't trust him in the clutch. I don't hate Carter as a person, I just think if he is our best player we will not compete for anything.

jamaljasonandjimmy · 04-17-2013, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

I have issues with Carter. I hate that he was our best player, and I still don't trust him in the clutch. I don't hate Carter as a person, I just think if he is our best player we will not compete for anything.

I agree with you he not clutch enough yet he was taking all the clutch shots all year and choking badly.

41creepingdeath · 04-17-2013, 11:55 PM

What makes you even think Vince would be our team's best player next season? Is Dirk gonna die or something?

spreedom · 04-17-2013, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamaljasonandjimmy

jarrett jack and jj hickson would be good free agents 2 pick up

JJ Hickson, who the Trail Blazers recently publicly said wasn't a starting-caliber center on a championship team. The Blazers.

grndmstr_c · 04-18-2013, 12:04 AM

The nerve of that Vince Carter, being arguably the best player on the team.

mac222b · 04-18-2013, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Why would you "hate" to admit to wanting Carter back? He is easily the most valuable contract to production player in the NBA. The dude has been nothing short of a steal for us.

His production has been outstanding relative to his pay but there are better values out there, unless you aren't counting players on rookie deals. Kenneth Faried is making something like 1.3 million. Chandler Parsons less.

JeffViggiano · 04-18-2013, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamaljasonandjimmy

jarrett jack and jj hickson would be good free agents 2 pick up

hickson please no...we need a defensive C.

nowhereman · 04-18-2013, 08:50 AM

If everyone's just going to say no to every single player, we're never going anywhere

Rick41 · 04-18-2013, 08:58 AM

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Originally Posted by JeffViggiano

hickson please no...we need a defensive C.

We badly need guys who rebound too.

Underdog · 04-18-2013, 09:05 AM

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"Personally, I felt like I withstood some things a lot of players can't withstand. I had a lot of point guards come in and start in front of me. But I put my head down and kept working. It's good to leave on a good note." --Darren Collison

He could be talking about the season coming to a close, but that's rather poor phrasing if so... Sounds like a decision has already been made, either by Collison or the Mavs.

twelli · 04-18-2013, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

I have issues with Carter. I hate that he was our best player, and I still don't trust him in the clutch. I don't hate Carter as a person, I just think if he is our best player we will not compete for anything.

Carter and Dirk really play well together. One of the few players on the team that are in sync with the big German. From a chemistry standpoint, I don't think Mayo, Collison, Kaman, Brand, and Mike James did work well with Dirk. We need players who are not just talented, but who like playing with each other and are on the same wave length with Dirk.

dude1394 · 04-18-2013, 09:51 AM

We just need smarter players. Dirk, Shawn, Vince know how to play. As much as folks like to bash James, he knows how to play as well..

Jae crowders biggest assett is between his ears. He doesn't have a lot of athleticism but he's pretty tough and I expect will get better and stay in the league because of his smarts.

Melonhead · 04-18-2013, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

He could be talking about the season coming to a close, but that's rather poor phrasing if so... Sounds like a decision has already been made, either by Collison or the Mavs.

My first thoughts were "he gone". He wants to be a starter somewhere.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-18-2013, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

He could be talking about the season coming to a close, but that's rather poor phrasing if so... Sounds like a decision has already been made, either by Collison or the Mavs.

Too many directions for the FO to go this offseason to draw any conclusions, but being replaced by D. Fisher and Mike James would leave a sore taste in anyone's mouth. He deserved it though. What irritates me the most about Mayo and Collison is that they had a zillion opportunities to prove their worth this season. No excuses.

Dirk's Knee · 04-18-2013, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

If everyone's just going to say no to every single player, we're never going anywhere

Yeah it's strange. I guess it comes from guys having their favs in the league or maybe from playing fantasy that some very questionable options are being recommended like they would be huge upgrades over what we have now. The fact is if the Mavs had a first 1/2 like the second, we'd be sitting at 6th in the west. And there were 3 big differences between the 1/2 half and second IMHO, in order of impact:

1. Dirk's return.
2. Playing Wright 20+ minutes
3. Collison coming off the bench.

When you look at it from this perspective, it's easy to see the team on the whole just wasn't as bad as their record suggests.

So what were the other issues?

Center was clearly a problem as almost every team in the league was allowed pretty clear walks to the hoop and we got killed on rebounds. As such, Brand and Kaman need to go as Brand is really a PF and I'd rather play Wright there and Kaman despite his offensive strength just isn't a good fit for the Mavs. We good forward with Bernard James off the bench and shoot for Bynum in hopes he'll sign short and cheap. Or give James the start and draft a rookie C who hopefully can be productive.

Mike James started at PG, I think that's solid evidence of how desperate we were at that position. However, Collison's "success" off the bench is rather intriguing. I mean, if we're talking about scenarios in which the lion's share of his minutes are played when Dirk is not on the floor he could be an effective part of the system.

Shooting guard was another huge problem. Due to our lack of depth at guard, Carter had to play backup for both the 2 and 3 which created scenarios in which Mayo had to play way more minutes than he really should have been playing. Now if Crowder develops offensively a bit this offseason, then perhaps Carter can slide over to primarily be the 2 guard off the bench, or even play Crowder at the 2 and Carter at the 3. either way, I think Mayo's got to go. I'd much prefer someone more consistent in their effort.

All that said, I strongly feel our biggest need is starting PG and Cuban needs to do everything in his power to do something big here. Second priority is center. Given the number of top 20 projected centers this year, I say roll the dice in the draft and start Sarge. At SG, just shoot for a role player 3 point specialist. Maybe we've already got that player in Morrow.

So what I predict will happen is the Mavs go for broke on Chris Paul. If we can't buy him outright, they'll try to trade whatever assets (Marion, presuming he opts in) we have plus cash and our pick to try and get a sign and trade. And when that fails, look at Jack and Calderon and try to gauge which is a better fit.

JeffViggiano · 04-18-2013, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

We badly need guys who rebound too.

of course but Hickson isn't our man...please watch the game not the boxscore.
he is a mediocre player,maybe a good back-up.

DGM · 04-18-2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

He could be talking about the season coming to a close, but that's rather poor phrasing if so... Sounds like a decision has already been made, either by Collison or the Mavs.

Would you stay in Dallas after RC playing you behind Mike James?

MavsFTR · 04-18-2013, 11:47 AM

Mayo just said he will opt out!

Underdog · 04-18-2013, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

Mayo just said he will opt out!

He also said he hopes to sign a long-term deal with the Mavs...

MavsFTR · 04-18-2013, 11:54 AM

Lawd have mercy.

Underdog · 04-18-2013, 12:04 PM

Also according to BG, Mayo said he talked with Rick and Donnie today and they seem to want him back... I think it's just a matter of price at this point.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-18-2013, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

Mayo just said he will opt out!

Link?

Underdog · 04-18-2013, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Link?

SMC0007 · 04-18-2013, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Also according to BG, Mayo said he talked with Rick and Donnie today and they seem to want him back... I think it's just a matter of price.at this point.

Of course, it's all relative. Imo, he's not worth more than the 4 mil he would have been due if he opted in. 8.5mil for 2yrs? 11.5-12.5m for 3yrs ?

DGM · 04-18-2013, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Also according to BG, Mayo said he talked with Rick and Donnie today and they seem to want him back... I think it's just a matter of price at this point.

Say it ain't so. Please say it ain't so.

grndmstr_c · 04-18-2013, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Of course, it's all relative. Imo, he's not worth more than the 4 mil he would have been due if he opted in. 8.5mil for 2yrs? 11.5-12.5m for 3yrs ?

3 years at roughly MLE money with a player option in the third year, maybe? Reasonable stability and a fast track to Bird Rights? If his best offers come in only slightly above the MLE (and I don't really know whether it's reasonable to expect that), he might prefer a deal like that - over one including a fourth year - even if the starting dollar amount comes in a little below the highest bid.

sefant77 · 04-18-2013, 01:50 PM

Well, just sign him after Paul/Dwight/Smith/Iggy/Peko are locked up

LonghornDub · 04-18-2013, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Well, just sign him after Paul/Dwight/Smith/Iggy/Peko are locked up

He's onto something.

EricaLubarsky · 04-18-2013, 02:11 PM

Mayo is a solid piece.

I remember when it was Jason Terry and Devin Harris were matched up from 04-05 to 07-08 and there were at least three dozen threads in those four years about how we needed to trade Jason Terry because he wasn't clutch, was too inconsistent, played poor defense and turned it over too much (as well as his inability to play PG and his lack of size). A few years later, when we had a true PG, we won the championship with large contributions from him.

I'm not saying Mayo is necessarily the future of this franchise-- that is a scary thought, but with the right supporting cast, Mayo could be a very nice piece.

Budapest Maverick · 04-18-2013, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Why would you "hate" to admit to wanting Carter back? He is easily the most valuable contract to production player in the NBA. The dude has been nothing short of a steal for us.

He's easily not. Parsons is getting like 700-800K, and signed for 3 more years after that.

Budapest Maverick · 04-18-2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Of course, it's all relative. Imo, he's not worth more than the 4 mil he would have been due if he opted in. 8.5mil for 2yrs? 11.5-12.5m for 3yrs ?

The Pistons likely offers him a bigger contract imo, at around 7-8 million per year. They need wing help badly, and Mayo is still relatively young. I'm sure there other candidates out there, no way he won't get bigger offers than 4-5 million. Which is a shame, because of our cap situation, but if you take a look the market, there are dozens of worse players than Mayo, who are getting 4-5 millions. So i guess, 6-7 would still should be considered fair price if we go by market value. And i'm really not that high on OJ, but the market says he's worth more than borderline MLE money.

Melonhead · 04-18-2013, 02:57 PM

Rumors still going on of Kaman to Blazers. @KJ_NBA twitter guy

Underdog · 04-18-2013, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Rumors still going on of Kaman to Blazers. @KJ_NBA twitter guy

Good riddance... I really like Kaman as a person, but he might be the worst fit I've ever seen next to Dirk - he made me pine for the days of Erick Dampier (and I was never a fan of Damp).