Breaking News: 3 team trade pending - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

RingTheBell · 06-26-2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

So what team that didn't make it last year is going to knock the Lakers out? Blazers? I don't see how this rumored trade kicks the Lakers out of the playoffs...sorry.

Kobe was perfectly fine with his first round loss this year.... Im sure he will not mind another....sorry

DelNegro · 06-26-2007, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

This is like TMac and Yao. Together they were supposed to be unstoppable, yet they can't advance in the playoffs. Superstars don't equal playoff success.

Nash and KG seem a tad bit more emotionally capable of handling the playoffs than Yao and TMac. Amare gets a little skiddish at times, but he doesn't have to run the show.

But, you still have to play the games.

Male30Dan · 06-26-2007, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

Oh man, I'm soooooo worried about KG in the playoffs. He's such a beast. I mean...he's gotten out of the first round once!!! WOW!!!

You are a fucking idiot tonight. You simply don't get it. KG could get his team out of the first round only once because only once did he have enough talent around him to do so. That is about to change in a big way.

I hope you know I don't want this shit to happen. Man I hope it doesn't. But I am being realistic about what this means if it does happen and you are not.

DubOverdose · 06-26-2007, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

BUT WHEN WE PLAYED THE DAMN TIMBERWOLVES THEY DIDN'T ALSO HAVE STEVE FUCKING NASH AND AMARE... That is the point you are missing. KG is just one of the SUPERSTARS on this team, not the lone superstar fighting constant double-teams. Imagine throwing the ball into KG and letting the guy guarding Nash have to choose whether or not to double-down and leave Nash open for 3 or stay with Nash to leave KG one-on-one. Now, lets assume Nash's defender stays with Nash - then the guy across from Amare has the same decision. If he leaves, the great passing KG finds Amare cutting in for a dunk. If he stays, well, like I said, a lot of one-on-one for a guy that puts up 22 and 13 while being regularly guarded by two guys.

Bottom line, you are comparing apples to fucking peanuts. You didn't even stay in the same food group.

It sure is fun to sit hear and read your posts while you shit bricks. Malone, Shaq, GP, Kobe...there's no way they could lose, I mean, Shaq and Kobe was enough to win it before.

peruna11 · 06-26-2007, 11:56 PM

one word sums this all up.... DAMN!

jthig32 · 06-26-2007, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

Oh and thiggy, keep telling yourself that they only get marginally better with this trade. KG was efficient as HELL and that was on a team full of junk. Now he has a two time MVP passing to him with Amare to prevent double-teams. Imagine KG NOT getting double-teamed. Yeah, marginally better. Marginally my ass.

Again, offense is not the problem with Phoenix. Not against us, anyway. I think this gives the Suns a much better personel set to play the Spurs, but I'm not sure it makes them decidedly better in the matchup against us.

It makes them better, yes. But so much better that we no longer have a realistic shot against them? Please.

RingTheBell · 06-26-2007, 11:57 PM

Now you are comparing Malone running the court with a walker and a catheter to Kevin Garnett.

Male30Dan · 06-26-2007, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

This is like TMac and Yao. Together they were supposed to be unstoppable, yet they can't advance in the playoffs. Superstars don't equal playoff success.

Shake your head side to side... Do you hear anything???

Listen dude, YOU ARE SUBTRACTING ONE GUY AND ADDING ONE GUY TO A TEAM THAT HAS MADE TWO STRAIGHT WESTERN CONFERENCE FINALS APPEARANCES. Oh, and that ONE GUY substraction is for KG, a HUGE upgrade over Marion. Oh, and they will get more guys like Hill/Webber to sign on for the ride.

The team is much better, MUCH... And this is a team that, again, has made the Western Conference Finals two straight years, (or was it three...).

They aren't reinventing the wheel here, they are IMPROVING an already GREAT team. Get it?

RingTheBell · 06-26-2007, 11:59 PM

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Male26Dan again.

Male30Dan · 06-26-2007, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

It sure is fun to sit hear and read your posts while you shit bricks. Malone, Shaq, GP, Kobe...there's no way they could lose, I mean, Shaq and Kobe was enough to win it before.

Did you read my post above saying THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS THAT TEAM BECAUSE THOSE TWO GUYS, (MALONE AND GP), WERE WAY PAST THEIR PRIME???

Again, shake your head to and fro... Hear anything?

jthig32 · 06-27-2007, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

Shake your head side to side... Do you hear anything???

Listen dude, YOU ARE SUBTRACTING ONE GUY AND ADDING ONE GUY TO A TEAM THAT HAS MADE TWO STRAIGHT WESTERN CONFERENCE FINALS APPEARANCES. Oh, and that ONE GUY substraction is for KG, a HUGE upgrade over Marion. Oh, and they will get more guys like Hill/Webber to sign on for the ride.

The team is much better, MUCH... And this is a team that, again, has made the Western Conference Finals two straight years, (or was it three...).

They aren't reinventing the wheel here, they are IMPROVING an already GREAT team. Get it?

Not to nitpick, but the Suns didn't make the WCF this season. And let's be honest, the Suns have beaten one good team in the playoffs the last three seasons. One.

They are a good team, with the potential to be great, that they've never realized. Let's not act like the Spurs are adding Garnett. It's just not the same thing.

DubOverdose · 06-27-2007, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

You are a fucking idiot tonight. You simply don't get it. KG could get his team out of the first round only once because only once did he have enough talent around him to do so. That is about to change in a big way.

I hope you know I don't want this shit to happen. Man I hope it doesn't. But I am being realistic about what this means if it does happen and you are not.

There's been plenty of evidence in NBA history that shows compiling superstars does not equal automatic titles. There are cases where it does, but not always. You can't seem to learn from history. Heck, the Mavs won 60 games then added 2 stars to the team...and won fewer games and got booted in 5 games to a Kings team that stumbled in to the playoffs. I am perfectly fine letting the NBA season play out if the Suns have KG, Amare, and Nash. Good for them. What if they can only beat 28 of the other 29 teams in the league? Hey, that sounds like us this year. There's a lot of luck in winning. I'll take my chances.

Male30Dan · 06-27-2007, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Again, offense is not the problem with Phoenix. Not against us, anyway. I think this gives the Suns a much better personel set to play the Spurs, but I'm not sure it makes them decidedly better in the matchup against us.

It makes them better, yes. But so much better that we no longer have a realistic shot against them? Please.

OK dude... We still have to GET to that matchup with them... We have trouble doing that these days.

jthig32 · 06-27-2007, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

OK dude... We still have to GET to that matchup with them... We have trouble doing that these days.

That's not part of the debate, now is it? If you don't think we can even get to a matchup with the Suns next season, then why are you so distraught by this possible trade?

Male30Dan · 06-27-2007, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Not to nitpick, but the Suns didn't make the WCF this season. And let's be honest, the Suns have beaten one good team in the playoffs the last three seasons. One.

They are a good team, with the potential to be great, that they've never realized. Let's not act like the Spurs are adding Garnett. It's just not the same thing.

Sorry, right you are... My bad... But they would have had they not came head to head with SA, (same as SA would have the previous year had they not came head to head with us). Anyway...

Fair enough, they have NOT yet accomplished anything. Hell, in reality they have accomplished less than us. With that said, whose roster would you rather have?

chumdawg · 06-27-2007, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

Oh man, I'm soooooo worried about KG in the playoffs. He's such a beast. I mean...he's gotten out of the first round once!!! WOW!!!

C'mon, Dub. You aren't being anywhere near reasonable. KG as part of the Suns attack and KG as the SOLE attack in Minnesota are two very different things.

Basically, if the Suns have Nash, Amare, and KG--with Bell and Barbosa, and Diaw or other parts in tow--well, I leave it to you to show me how they are stoppable.

That's arguably THREE MVP's on one roster--and all in their prime. Wow.

mkat · 06-27-2007, 12:04 AM

they're aren't going to get KG without giving up Amare. it just ain't happening.

and really, Garnett is now 10 years in...keep amare, you've got a guy who's still up and coming...

jthig32 · 06-27-2007, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

Sorry, right you are... My bad... But they would have had they not came head to head with SA, (same as SA would have the previous year had they not came head to head with us). Anyway...

Fair enough, they have NOT yet accomplished anything. Hell, in reality they have accomplished less than us. With that said, whose roster would you rather have?

As it stands today? Ours. And I mean that seriously.

If the Suns aquire KG, and we do absolutely nothing, I might have to reevaluate that question.

Male30Dan · 06-27-2007, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

That's not part of the debate, now is it? If you don't think we can even get to a matchup with the Suns next season, then why are you so distraught by this possible trade?

Hahaha... Just jabbing you since you think we are so ready to beat this team. We knocked them out of the playoffs without Amare. Now they have him and potentially KG. Say what you will, but they scare the shit out of me. Just keeping it real.

RingTheBell · 06-27-2007, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkat

they're aren't going to get KG without giving up Amare. it just ain't happening.

El oh El.

purplefrog · 06-27-2007, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RingTheBell

After watching THE CAVS make it to the finals you said this with a strait face?

I am not saying they won't be in playing in the postseason but they won't be in the finals anytime soon. There is no bench (anymore)... no Green, no Gomes, no Telfair. The Cs would be out of the first round of the draft, so no help there. Marion is a great player but imo he needs more pieces around him than a great 2/3 (Pierce) and a promising, but still young 4. You look at salaries and now Boston would be dishing out 16M to Pierce, 17M to Marion, 12M to Sczerbiak. How are they going to build with those salaries??? Jefferson will likely command a bundle. Where do you go from here? If this trade goes through Marion has committed himself to years of first round exits in the playoffs. Even in the Leastern Conference.

Male30Dan · 06-27-2007, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

As it stands today? Ours. And I mean that seriously.

If the Suns aquire KG, and we do absolutely nothing, I might have to reevaluate that question.

Yes, as it stands today I would also choose our team, but not by much. Hell, then again, I still might not, (and I LOVE Dirk). Truth be told, there isn't a fan for any NBA team that would say they wouldn't trade rosters with Phoenix if they pull this trade off... Not one. If they did they would be one that, after shaking their head to and fro - hears nothing.

RingTheBell · 06-27-2007, 12:07 AM

I still think the Suns get the Cats trade and Minny ends up with # 5, 7 and 8 on Thursday.

peruna11 · 06-27-2007, 12:08 AM

You add KG but you lose the Suns all around best player IMO. They also lose Kurt Thomas and Banks. So who backups Nash?.... He won't play the whole season so it seems like they are screwed at the PG if he goes down. Bell and Barbosa will probably start so who backs them up?... Jones? Webber's name is being thrown around but why would he leave Detroit? That is his hometown and Detroit always has a good chance making it to the finals in the East. As far as Billups is concerned the few teams that have the money to satisfy him are no good. So why would he not resign with the Pistons? Hill is a toss up he could go to Detroit or the Suns. Diaw's name has been thrown around for a top 10 pick, but the suns covet Noah who many of you call a spare and think he will be no good.

That is a pretty impressive starting lineup, but not much of a bench.

Male30Dan · 06-27-2007, 12:09 AM

Wow... They could build a starting lineup in one draft.

chumdawg · 06-27-2007, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Again, offense is not the problem with Phoenix. Not against us, anyway. I think this gives the Suns a much better personel set to play the Spurs, but I'm not sure it makes them decidedly better in the matchup against us.

It makes them better, yes. But so much better that we no longer have a realistic shot against them? Please.

Interesting post, Thiggy. A "realistic shot?" Well, I guess that's what we would have had against them this year. (We would have lost, as best I can tell.) If they swap Marion for KG, they get better against us on both offense AND defense. What mismatch is Dirk going to exploit.

Excuse me while I crap the bed.

jthig32 · 06-27-2007, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

Yes, as it stands today I would also choose our team, but not by much. Hell, then again, I still might not, (and I LOVE Dirk). Truth be told, there isn't a fan for any NBA team that would say they wouldn't trade rosters with Phoenix if they pull this trade off... Not one. If they did they would be one that, after shaking their head to and fro - hears nothing.

I'd say Spurs fans could hold their heads high and say no to that trade.

Male30Dan · 06-27-2007, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peruna11

You add KG but you lose the Suns all around best player IMO. They also lose Kurt Thomas and Banks. So who backups Nash?.... He won't play the whole season so it seems like they are screwed at the PG if he goes down. Bell and Barbosa will probably start so who backs them up?... Jones? Webber's name is being thrown around but why would he leave Detroit? That is his hometown and Detroit always has a good chance making it to the finals in the East. As far as Billups is concerned the few teams that have the money to satisfy him are no good. So why would he not resign with the Pistons? Hill is a toss up he could go to Detroit or the Suns. Diaw's name has been thrown around for a top 10 pick, but the suns covet Noah who many of you call a spare and think he will be no good.

That is a pretty impressive starting lineup, but not much of a bench.

Even if Marion is their best overall player, which is debatable, you are replacing him with an even better all around player, (much better IMO).

Barbosa backs Nash up. Bell and Diaw start. Don't forget other guys will come in for vet minimums, (I guarantee you it will happen - MLE, LLE, and vet minimums), to get a ring. Depth will be the last concern of this team.

RingTheBell · 06-27-2007, 12:10 AM

Well I am going to sleep to dream of KG in Orange.... Zzzzzz zzzZzzz

jthig32 · 06-27-2007, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Interesting post, Thiggy. A "realistic shot?" Well, I guess that's what we would have had against them this year. (We would have lost, as best I can tell.) If they swap Marion for KG, they get better against us on both offense AND defense. What mismatch is Dirk going to exploit.

Excuse me while I crap the bed.

Uh no. They would have been the ones with a "realistic shot" against us, had we played in this post season.

Once again, the Phoenix Suns have beaten one good team in the past three NBA playoffs. They are all potential that has never been realized.

And I think their defense against us actually takes a hit if they trade Marion for KG. We've seen KG play defense against Dirk before. Obviously their offense will improve dramatically, but their defense, while improving slightly on the whole, would not improve against us, imo.

Male30Dan · 06-27-2007, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'd say Spurs fans could hold their heads high and say no to that trade.

Shake your head to and fro!!! Hear anything???

Dude seriously, I just don't buy it. 3 1st-team guys... 3... 3 MVPs between em, (and Amare will likely get one himself before he is done). This team is STACKED. I would in a heartbeat make that trade. Both teams are older teams but one is much more talented than the other. I just think you underrate KG so so much.

Male30Dan · 06-27-2007, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Uh no. They would have been the ones with a "realistic shot" against us, had we played in this post season.

Once again, the Phoenix Suns have beaten one good team in the past three NBA playoffs. They are all potential that has never been realized.

And I think their defense against us actually takes a hit if they trade Marion for KG. We've seen KG play defense against Dirk before. Obviously their offense will improve dramatically, but their defense, while improving slightly on the whole, would not improve against us, imo.

Unless they put Raja on Dirk with KG AND Amare waiting in the paint. Remember the Miami series? Hell their best Dirk defender might not even be on the team after this trade. Like I said, guys will be running to Phoenix.

chumdawg · 06-27-2007, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

There's been plenty of evidence in NBA history that shows compiling superstars does not equal automatic titles. There are cases where it does, but not always. You can't seem to learn from history. Heck, the Mavs won 60 games then added 2 stars to the team...and won fewer games and got booted in 5 games to a Kings team that stumbled in to the playoffs.

Hold on there, chief.

Of course, compiling superstars does not automatically equal titles. But you seem to suggest that it doesn't necessarily help you at all. You will have to work harder than this to prove this point. It should very much stand to reason that if you have one superstar on your team (see, for quick example, a team like Minnesota or Boston), what you do try to do is ADD MORE SUPERSTAR TALENT. If you can, that is.

The Mavs added Jamison and Walker. I wouldn't call those superstars. You called them stars, and even that is stretching it. They were second-tier players.

Quote:

I am perfectly fine letting the NBA season play out if the Suns have KG, Amare, and Nash. Good for them. What if they can only beat 28 of the other 29 teams in the league? Hey, that sounds like us this year. There's a lot of luck in winning. I'll take my chances.

Do you write for the "X-Files"? This treble-superstar-team is going to be able to whip 28 teams but have kryptonite against one?

Boy, you must believe that the only thing between us and a title was a scrappy team that damn near missed the playoffs entirely.

jthig32 · 06-27-2007, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

Shake your head to and fro!!! Hear anything???

Dude seriously, I just don't buy it. 3 1st-team guys... 3... 3 MVPs between em, (and Amare will likely get one himself before he is done). This team is STACKED. I would in a heartbeat make that trade. Both teams are older teams but one is much more talented than the other. I just think you underrate KG so so much.

If you're evaluating pure talent, then sure. But there is more to a roster than pure talent. If I'm a Spurs fans I dont' trade rosters for anyone. In the Spurs case, you're giving up the best player in the deal, and you don't generally do that.

It's the same general logic that applies to international competition. You'd say Aregentina would trade rosters with Team USA, right? Well...based on results, maybe not.

And to clarify, I'm not making the same claims Dub is making. I don't think Garnet would have ANY trouble fitting in in Phoenix, and I think they'd be a great team. Probably the favorites to win it all. But I still wouldn't trade the Spurs roster for them.

Male30Dan · 06-27-2007, 12:18 AM

KG = Duncan. Put Duncan on the Timberwolves and he struggles to get out of the first round without any help too. Now compare the rest of the roster for both clubs...

Parker vs. Nash (PLEASE - Suns)
Ginobili vs. Bell (PLEASE - Spurs)
Diaw vs. Bowen (Wash really - one has better O and one has better D)
Amare vs. ...... (Hahahaha)
........ vs. Oberto (Close call there, but Oberto gets the nod)
Suns bench vs. Spurs bench (Incomplete - wait until after the off season for this one)

In a heartbeat I make this trade.

jthig32 · 06-27-2007, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

KG = Duncan. Put Duncan on the Timberwolves and he struggles to get out of the first round without any help too. Now compare the rest of the roster for both clubs...

Parker vs. Nash (PLEASE - Suns)
Ginobili vs. Bell (PLEASE - Spurs)
Diaw vs. Bowen (Wash really - one has better O and one has better D)
Amare vs. ...... (Hahahaha)
........ vs. Oberto (Close call there, but Oberto gets the nod)
Suns bench vs. Spurs bench (Incomplete - wait until after the off season for this one)

In a heartbeat I make this trade.

First of all, there's one place in which KG = Duncan, and that's fantasy basketball. Please don't buy into the BS that rosters are the only things separating the two, because it's ridiculous. Tim Duncan would never, EVER miss the playoffs three years running with Garnet's roster. Ever.

Second, as I stated in my previous post, you can't just make a run down of individual talent to evaluate a roster.

EricaLubarsky · 06-27-2007, 12:21 AM

it isnt individual matchups. There are only so many shots in a game. I mean its nice to make a team guard 4 guys out there on a final posession and its nice to be able to have a lot of options offensively but honestly it isnt 1v1.

Male30Dan · 06-27-2007, 12:22 AM

Bottom line, this makes a really good NBA team even better. This is a team that beat us 2 of 4 games with one of our wins being a last second Dirk jumpshot. We beat them in the playoffs without Amare and lost to them the year before with him. Now they have Amare and replaced Marion with KG. They will also end up with a better bench if what I think will happen happens, (talented vets coming cheap to get a ring).

If this doesn't really scare you and doesn't really make you worry about the Mavs ability to ever win a ring, well, you just aren't being honest with yourself in my opinion.

DubOverdose · 06-27-2007, 12:23 AM

It's Official: Male26Dan Cancels 2007-2010 NBA Seasons
The Suns will win 3 straight years. There's no reason to play a game. Everything that happens in pro sports is predictable.

BTW, now on ESPN they're talking giving up Amare to get KG. Supposedly the Suns have offered Amare and they might work out a deal including Atlanta to get KG to the Suns. There are also hopes alive of Boston landing KG. The overreaction in this thread by a few is crazy. Sit back, take a breath, and realize that crazy things happen in the L, and it is extremely rare for things to happen as expected. Rumors are rumors. The original proposed trade I don't think goes down because if I'm Minny, I want a solid player. I want a proven product if I'm giving up KG.

DelNegro · 06-27-2007, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'd say Spurs fans could hold their heads high and say no to that trade.

As a Spurs fan I will do exactly that right now.

No, I would not trade the Spurs roster for a Suns one that included KG. Don't get me wrong, KG would make the Suns a hell of a lot better. He'd definitely give the Spurs a lot more to worry about than Marion did. The Suns + KG would certainly be capable of beating the Spurs whereas the Suns as currently configured are not. Still, at the end of the day the Suns need to match up against the Spurs just like the Spurs do against them, and in giving away Marion and Thomas the Suns would have given away their best Duncan defender and the guy who they needed guarding Tony Parker. Raja Bell can't guard Parker and Manu at the same time, so who now takes Marion's defensive assignment?

It would be a hell of a series, and truthfully one I'd see as a coin flip, but I'll stick with my guys who have already proven they know how to win.