Official Team USA Basketball Thread.

[BGMaverick9]

Dirk is a given to be up on the list but Kaman is there due to the fact Angola had no one who could get in his way. It'll help Germany for sure if Kaman can build up the confidence and lock it down in the paint and allow Dirk to roam outside and attack the rim.

[dirno2000]

If you only looked at the boxscore, you would think Dwight Howard is a piss poor rebounder. But just because he didn't rebound doesn't make him a bad rebounder. It was his circumstance for that game. Same way Kaman only got likee 3 boards for Germany and Jagla (who is terrible) got 11.

Kidd ending up with 0 points and 0 assists is not an anomaly. That’s not far off his average.

It isn't about who is the best player, it is about who is the best fit for the Olympic team. Huge difference. Re-read what I said about the team in general.

I agree with this sentiment. When we start playing good teams that limit the transition opportunities a point guard that’s able to control the ball a little more is going to be valuable. When you have three one on one players who are used to being the first option you want your point guard to dictate whose getting the ball and where he’s going to get it. At this point in their careers Paul is much better at that. More often than not Kidd’s a weak side shooter in this offense.

As for your point about glue guys, I wouldn’t mind trading Chandler for Boozer or maybe swapping out the one or two of the Lebron, Wade, Carmello, Bryant quartet. The difference here is that a good point guard is pretty much a glue guy by definition. You don’t have to trade talent for perceived fit.

[alby]

Dirno, do you agree that Kidd was the best PG against China?

[dirno2000]

I don't know. I'm paying pretty closer attention to Kidd than for obvious reasons. Nothing Paul did really jumped out at me so it's probably not a point I'd bother to argue either way.

Obviously the story of the game was the play of Lebron and Wade.

[Dirkenstien]

Bayliss,

I agree with everything you've been saying about Kidd. I also noticed how the game changed when Kidd was in the lineup. As soon as Kidd was replaced it seemed the lead would start dwindling. I also noticed this happening against Australia and I think that may be one of the reasons it was such a close game.

Kidd has been the best PG for USA in this tournament. I'm not saying he IS the best PG, because obviously Paul and Deron are very talented, but he has been the best PG for this team. And I agree that the hockey assists do matter because without Kidd's full court precision passes many of those "catch-drop off and let dunk" plays would not be there.

[LSMF]

Even though in most of the games Kidd can't score or get an assist he is the best PG out there. Great assessment.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

Even though in most of the games Kidd can't score or get an assist he is the best PG out there. Great assessment.

(sigh)


Yeah and Dwight Howard is just an average rebounder because he's only averaging something like 5 rebounds a game.

Oh and Teyshaun Prince and Carlos Boozer are both bench players because they can barely get off the bench averaging 7 minutes a game.


What other fun conclusions can we come to just by looking at the boxscore?

[ty]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

(sigh)


Yeah and Dwight Howard is just an average rebounder because he's only averaging something like 5 rebounds a game.

Oh and Teyshaun Prince and Carlos Boozer are both bench players because they can barely get off the bench averaging 7 minutes a game.


What other fun conclusions can we come to just by looking at the boxscore?

Face it. LSMF isn't going to be happy until Kidd turns into Devin Harris.

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by digit

Spain > US streetballers

Can't wait for saturday's clash...

Maybe you can explain this to us:

Several media sources are reporting that Madrid’s bid for the 2016 Summer Olympic Games could be affected after its basketball team was accused of making racist gestures. It seems a sponsor of the Spanish Basketball Federation published a good-luck advertisement for their men’s basketball team competing at the Olympics, in which they stand, pulling at the sides of their eyes in a "slit-eyed" gesture. The full-page advertisement appeared in Marca, a sports daily that is the country's best selling newspaper.

According to The Guardian, the use of the picture disregards the possibility that the Chinese may take offense and there may be criticism for Spanish sport and further consequences for the "...Spanish Olympic committee's continued desire to host the Games in Madrid in 2016 or 2020."

The advertisement reportedly could also offend Tokyo 2016 officials, one of Madrid’s three rivals for the 2016 Games.

Just hours earlier, Madrid was promoting it's International Campaign that will continue until October 2009. During the presentation Madrid’s CEO Mercedes Coghen said, "Madrid is a city that wants to do more than aspire to the Olympic ideal; it wants to live those values through the Games with the human touch".

But despite any offence taken as a result of the Spanish faux pas, the incident won't likely impact the final 2016 host city vote set to take place 14 months from now. Beijing easily won its bid to host the current Olympic Games amid constant critisizm over human rights abuses and London won the bid for the 2012 Olympic Games after then-Mayor Ken Livingstone was accused of making anti-semitic remarks to a journalist just four months before the final vote. The International Olympic Committee traditionally sets aside controversial events not directly related to the bids.

[nikeball]

If you put Paul or Deron up there with the first team they will do just a good as job as Kidd. When Kidd checks in/out of the game it is usually with the starters so of course the lead is going to diminish or stay the same. Paul and Deron are just as capable as pushing the tempo as Kidd is..anyone who doesn't think that is blind.

Even though I love the Mavs, Kidd should be able to at least get 1 assist against lesser competition even if he only plays 13 minutes. You get assists in basketball games on accident, poor defense, and luck. Kidd has not even be getting those. Half of his outlet passes he threw against China were tipped, in traffic, or thrown way too early. He also led the team in TOs. Kidd is trying to force things way too much and should let the game come to him.

And at this stage, Deron and Paul are definitely better defenders against the world's quicker guards.

[Bayliss]

If you put Paul or Deron up there with the first team they will do just a good as job as Kidd. When Kidd checks in/out of the game it is usually with the starters so of course the lead is going to diminish or stay the same. Paul and Deron are just as capable as pushing the tempo as Kidd is..anyone who doesn't think that is blind.

And when Kidd checks out, and Paul subs in... Dwyane Wade (USA's second best player so far) checks in as well with Carmelo (USA's worst player) checks out.

[nikeball]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

And when Kidd checks out, and Paul subs in... Dwyane Wade (USA's second best player so far) checks in as well with Carmelo (USA's worst player) checks out.

How is Carmelo USA's worst player? The past few years on team USA..he has been the best player..the MVP. His game is definitely international. Melo in FIBA > Melo in NBA by far.

[Bayliss]

How is Carmelo USA's worst player? The past few years on team USA..he has been the best player..the MVP. His game is definitely international. Melo in FIBA > Melo in NBA by far.

Excluding the guys who don't play (Prince, Boozer, etc.), Carmelo has been the worst player on the team for the pre Olympic/Olympic games.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by nikeball

If you put Paul or Deron up there with the first team they will do just a good as job as Kidd. When Kidd checks in/out of the game it is usually with the starters so of course the lead is going to diminish or stay the same. Paul and Deron are just as capable as pushing the tempo as Kidd is..anyone who doesn't think that is blind.

Even though I love the Mavs, Kidd should be able to at least get 1 assist against lesser competition even if he only plays 13 minutes. You get assists in basketball games on accident, poor defense, and luck. Kidd has not even be getting those. Half of his outlet passes he threw against China were tipped, in traffic, or thrown way too early. He also led the team in TOs. Kidd is trying to force things way too much and should let the game come to him.

And at this stage, Deron and Paul are definitely better defenders against the world's quicker guards.

Nike, are you even watching the games? You're seriously stating that half of Kidd's passes were tipped away? And you're saying WE'RE blind???

This USA team is best in transition and no one has sparked the fast break better than Kidd so far. Plus, I'd like to see your argument as to how Deron and Paul have been better defenders because Kidd has easily been one of USA's best defenders throughout the summer and was especially significant on the defensive end during the China game. I could understand if you said they "may" be better defenders but for you to say that they have "definitely" been better is just rediculous.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by nikeball

If you put Paul or Deron up there with the first team they will do just a good as job as Kidd. When Kidd checks in/out of the game it is usually with the starters so of course the lead is going to diminish or stay the same. Paul and Deron are just as capable as pushing the tempo as Kidd is..anyone who doesn't think that is blind.

Even though I love the Mavs, Kidd should be able to at least get 1 assist against lesser competition even if he only plays 13 minutes. You get assists in basketball games on accident, poor defense, and luck. Kidd has not even be getting those. Half of his outlet passes he threw against China were tipped, in traffic, or thrown way too early. He also led the team in TOs. Kidd is trying to force things way too much and should let the game come to him.

And at this stage, Deron and Paul are definitely better defenders against the world's quicker guards.

Jesus, you're bitter. Kidd has been doing a fantastic job from the get-go and although his numbers obviously aren't reflecting it, he's been putting in some really good minutes for the team. He seems like he was staying in front of China's quicker guards just as well as anyone else on the team yesterday (and that includes Kobe and LeBron).... it's okay to actually support our players, in case you aren't aware. He's playing really well.

[nikeball]

I don't doubt that Kidd is good. I don't doubt that he is valuable to this team...but I don't believe he is as freaking awesome to this team as most members of this board believe he is. It sounds like Kidd is playing head and shoulders above Paul and Williams. I also believe Kidd played better last summer in the tournament of the Americas than he has this summer (because of worst competition?). Last summer his decision-making was better...pushed the ball at the right time and did not try to force as many passes. This summer I just don't feel he is as fluid...and seems to be forcing more.

Because 9am was early for me on a Sunday..and I have nothing to do at work today...I decided to re-watch the Jason Kidd parts of the first game.

This is his impact on China game..I even added the "hockey assists"

Kidd plays
1st QTR
9:03 - Kidd foul
8:47 - Kidd to Lebron nothing happens
8:30 - Kidd steal, starting fastbreak to Kobe to D12
7:00 - Kidd pump faked, Chinese player misses jumper, Chinese player gets offensive rebound
6:35 - Kidd bad pass behind Melo, Yi fast break, Yi stripped by Kidd, China gets ball back for layup
6:26 - Kidd makes pass from 3/4 court to before half court..looks like a hard catch...leading to hard left handed layup for Lebron scoring 3 (USA) on 4 (China)
Kidd out (-2) USA (-2)

2nd QTR enters 5:29
5:23 - Kidd passes to Lebron in post, holds for a few seconds, kicks to open Redd in corner for 3 (miss)
4:45 - Steal, outlet pass to Kidd, 4 on 3 fast break for Kidd to Kobe...good pass...good dunk in traffic (I thought this would be marked as an assist during first viewing)
4:00 - Kidd brings ball up..stops...passes to Lebron who swings to Kobe for a missed 3.
3:30 - Kidd gets outlet pass..3 Chinese players surrounding him..passes ball a little behind Lebron .. for 3 on 2 fastbreak and1 layup
3:20 - Kidd passes to Kobe who tries to take it 1 on 5 and misses shot.
2:58 - Kidd great pass to Bosh (Also an assist on first viewing)
2:35 - Kidd to Wade to Lebron (play of day)
2:00 - Kidd rebound, throws downcourt to Kobe, to Bosh dunk
1:30 - Kidd to Wade who dribbles and makes fadeaway
1:05- Kidd to Wade pushes to Wade who makes tough layup
Halftime - Kidd out (+12) USA +12

3rd QTR
9:14 - Kidd bad pass TO out of bounds
8:45 - Kidd passes to D12 downlow for a miss
8:10 - Kidd passes to LBJ in post..passes to Kobe out of bounds
7:35 - Kidd pick/roll to melo fouled on shot
7:34 - Kidd steal
7:15 - Kidd to Kobe for missed 3
6:40 - bad pass to Kidd on fast break who gives bad pass to Howard to get blocked
6:24 - Kidd out (+2) USA +14

Overall Kidd +12

It was after this that USA went on a run to put this game away.

Kidd also is unfortunate (irony) to be playing with players like Lebron/Kobe who are used to dominating the ball for them to score..thus we see more isolations..whereas Deron Williams / Chris Paul have the luxury (irony) to be playing with more "role" players to up their assist numbers...kickouts/pick and rolls...many of Kidd's passes put players in a position to score..but they still had to work hard/take a tough shot to score.

Kidd may be a great PG against bad teams who take bad shots...leading to fast breaks...but against good teams who take quality shots..such as Argentina and Spain...Paul and Williams will be more effective in the half court set. That being said...I believe Paul/Williams would be able to duplicate what Kidd does in the open floor better than Kidd could duplicate Paul/William's half court set.

[Bayliss]

Nike, I don' quite get this part:

It was after this that USA went on a run to put this game away.

Kidd in the second quarter was the one who made the lead balloon out to what it was.... and at the start of the 3rd it was pretty much over from there after the first couple of minutes.

[nikeball]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Nike, I don' quite get this part:



Kidd in the second quarter was the one who made the lead balloon out to what it was.... and at the start of the 3rd it was pretty much over from there after the first couple of minutes.

Halftime lead was 12...When Kidd left the game USA was up by 14..which I don't trust when it comes to FIBA 3 pointers or even in the NBA nowadays...after the midway mark in the 3rd..USA went on a run to make the insurmountable lead at 25-30+ points and cruised.

[Bayliss]

Halftime lead was 12...When Kidd left the game USA was up by 14..which I don't trust when it comes to FIBA 3 pointers or even in the NBA nowadays...after the midway mark in the 3rd..USA went on a run to make the insurmountable lead at 25-30+ points and cruised.

But through most of the first half China was leading in the game. Kidd was the reason it was 12 to begin with.... When it got to 20 at the end of the 3rd was it over? Sure. Was it over at 14 when Kidd went out? Absolutely.

And here is the most important part of that: had Coach K not thought it was over... he would have put Kidd back in. Just like he had to do in one of the pre Olympic games (can't remember which.)

[nikeball]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

But through most of the first half China was leading in the game. Kidd was the reason it was 12 to begin with.... When it got to 20 at the end of the 3rd was it over? Sure. Was it over at 14 when Kidd went out? Absolutely.

And here is the most important part of that: had Coach K not thought it was over... he would have put Kidd back in. Just like he had to do in one of the pre Olympic games (can't remember which.)

I do believe Kidd was part of the reason the 12 point lead was established. But is that the only reason? I think the main reason was that China started going cold from 3 point land and their adrenaline disappeared (getting tired) and USA's defense started getting feistier..leading to worse shots leading to fast breaks..Kidd's specialty.

Coach K's substitution patterns have been the same...Play Kidd first 6 mins of 1st QTR..and last few mins of 2nd QTR...start first few mins of 3rd QTR...

He would have put Kidd back in the 4th (maybe?)...did Kidd play at end of 4th for Australia when it was close? But by then the lead has ballooned to 30+. Would anybody truly believe a game is over by the middle of the 3rd QTR only up by 14 points?

[Bayliss]

I do believe Kidd was part of the reason the 12 point lead was established. But is that the only reason? I think the main reason was that China started going cold from 3 point land and their adrenaline disappeared (getting tired) and USA's defense started getting feistier..leading to worse shots leading to fast breaks..Kidd's specialty.

And Kidd was a reason for that defense. Doug Collins even made the comment at one time when Paul was doubling Yao and left a guy wide open for 3. Collins said Paul needs to realize he has to stay home more than he did in the NBA.

Like I said earlier, Kidd is the ultimate glue guy. His stats aren't going to be impressive, but he will be the difference between US winning Gold, or the US getting Bronze.

[dirno2000]

And Kidd was a reason for that defense. Doug Collins even made the comment at one time when Paul was doubling Yao and left a guy wide open for 3. Collins said Paul needs to realize he has to stay home more than he did in the NBA.

That was Wade not Paul.

[Flacolaco]

So the game is on at 7:00 am central tomorrow, right?

The NBC Olympics web site is kind of ticking me off.

[BGMaverick9]

Yahoo's Olympic page says that, 7:00 am CST so that should be right.

I'm going to have to think happy thoughts for Dirk and Germany, too late of a game tonight with an early morning of work.

[alby]

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

So the game is on at 7:00 am central tomorrow, right?

The NBC Olympics web site is kind of ticking me off.

Man I really like NBC's site.

[Flacolaco]

Did you have any trouble with Silverlight, thig?

I still can't get it to work for me. It totally crashes my browser when I use the NBC video player, or even whatever that app is on the msn.com home page.

[nikeball]

Silverlight worked for me..both on my Firefox (PC) and Safari (Mac) platform. I haven't had any trouble thus far.

Maybe it uninstall it and reinstall it?

But good win...expected vs Angola, I only watched the last 6 minutes..when it looked like USA was disinterested in playing anymore..or defense rather.

[jthig32]

No issues with silverlight for me. but I don't use Firefox.

[dirno2000]

Was this game on live tv? I set my DVR to record NBC from 7 to 10 and I got the Today show.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Was this game on live tv? I set my DVR to record NBC from 7 to 10 and I got the Today show.

It was on USA, I think.

[alby]

It was on the HD Olympic basketball channel from 530-7am pacific time. It was a bad game, all three pg's played poorly.

[dirno2000]

Kobe's killing us by jacking up contested 3's. There's no excuse for that on a team full of scorers. I thought coach K talked to him at halftime of the China game but he comes back today and goes 0-8.

BTW, how do they seed in the round of 8? Is it record then margin of victory?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Kobe's killing us by jacking up contested 3's. There's no excuse for that on a team full of scorers. I thought coach K talked to him at halftime of the China game but he comes back today and goes 0-8.

BTW, how do they seed in the round of 8? Is it record then margin of victory?

Yes I believe that is correct on the seeding.

[BGMaverick9]

I haven't looked yet..is there a replay on today, if so..is it even worth watching?

How did everyone look today?

[nikeball]

Sub-par FT shooting & 3 point shooting ... esp 0-8 from Bean.

Lebron & Wade were the best players once again...They are playing head and shoulder's above everyone this summer. Lebron is getting it done on both ends of the court.

[Dirkenstien]

D-Wade is starting to look like the player from those Finals again.


I don't mind it when he's in a USA jersey but come season time I wish nothing but bad things for him and the Miami Heat.

[alby]

^ Agreed. Wade is looking nothing short of dominant.

He was asked on the state of his injury and he said during his rehab to his shoulder last year, he focused so much on his upper body and building up strength in his arms and shoulders that he didn't work out his legs and that's why he got injured down there. However, he said that he is now in the best shape of his life because he focused on both his lower and upper body equally and that's he's never been this explosive with his speed and jumping ability in his life. I believe him because he's doing windmill's and reverse's with ease now... which is scary.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by nikeball

If you put Paul or Deron up there with the first team they will do just a good as job as Kidd. When Kidd checks in/out of the game it is usually with the starters so of course the lead is going to diminish or stay the same. Paul and Deron are just as capable as pushing the tempo as Kidd is..anyone who doesn't think that is blind.

Even though I love the Mavs, Kidd should be able to at least get 1 assist against lesser competition even if he only plays 13 minutes. You get assists in basketball games on accident, poor defense, and luck. Kidd has not even be getting those. Half of his outlet passes he threw against China were tipped, in traffic, or thrown way too early. He also led the team in TOs. Kidd is trying to force things way too much and should let the game come to him.

And at this stage, Deron and Paul are definitely better defenders against the world's quicker guards.

Thank you! This is exactly what Im talking about, if Kidd is as great as everyone says he should be able to get at least one assist and two points. He is playing with some of the best players in the world and he can't get an assist? Come on guys lets be reasonable.

[BGMaverick9]

I didn't watch the game...but I looked at the box score.

You do know he had 3 assists, 4 rebounds and 2 steals...right?