PGT: Folding like a Trapper Keeper in NO - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

joemoeschmoe · 03-10-2011, 12:06 PM

Jesus, there is a ton of overreactions here. It is one game. We are still 19-3 over the last 22 games. Yes, we lost 2 out of the last 3 and lost our breathing room over LA. The guys just need to buckle down and focus. This part of it is a good thing.

This was a fluky loss. Seriously, 1 half-court shot, 1 end of quarter running jumper, and an off balance, contested 3 in the final minute. If we win by 1, I bet not nearly as many people would be in here with all this doom and gloom.

Oh yeah, where was Brewer?

LonghornDub · 03-10-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

whats with all the Crying, people? Swear to god this thread is turning into a 16 year old girl's diary about her crush. Get over it, losses happen. Holy crap.

You wanna talk about Soft? Talk about the Mavs fans in this thread. Seriously.

This.

(But I also think the team is kinda soft. Not because of last night, just in general. Terry's avid protestations aside.)

ribosoma · 03-10-2011, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

This.

(But I also think the team is kinda soft. Not because of last night, just in general. Terry's avid protestations aside.)

I definitely think they are soft without TC. But that dude is one nasty SOB. His presence alone seems to be infectious where toughness in concerned.

Dirk was really passive on the boards last night, especially when TC was challenging shots. He simply has to be better defensively. The turnover late was one of the more idiotic I have seen from him in a long time. I have no idea what he was thinking, but he always seems to learn from his mistakes.

Kidd's late foul was equally idiotic, and he really seemed to be bothered by Belinelli's defense, especially in the second half.

I suspect TC will be fuming tonight, and I hope the rest of the roster is, as well. It's time to respond to a really disappointing loss by playing with an edge and outworking your opponent for a WHOLE GAME, not just small stretches of it.

Lor20 · 03-10-2011, 01:50 PM

indeed with the overreaction.... losing 3 out of 22 ... all 3 by 1 point.... is hardly bad.

take a chill pill everybody.

Eman · 03-10-2011, 02:10 PM

Hey, you couldn't expect them to win last night.....They only had their second best scorer on the court for 13 minutes!!!!!!!!! Why do you think they couldn't get a bucket when they needed it!

fluid.forty.one · 03-10-2011, 02:11 PM

LOUD NOISES

JeffViggiano · 03-10-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joemoeschmoe

Jesus, there is a ton of overreactions here. It is one game. We are still 19-3 over the last 22 games

losers thinking.

Underdog · 03-10-2011, 02:12 PM

.

fluid.forty.one · 03-10-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffViggiano

losers thinking.

This is one of the dumbest things I've read on here in a long time.

Underdog · 03-10-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffViggiano

losers thinking.

I guess winners like you don't do a whole lot of thinking, huh?

mavs777 · 03-10-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman

Hey, you couldn't expect them to win last night.....They only had their second best scorer on the court for 13 minutes!!!!!!!!! Why do you think they couldn't get a bucket when they needed it!

Chandler played 25 minutes cause of foul trouble, not 13.

Kidd Karma · 03-10-2011, 02:51 PM

Chad-wood

20 points, 19 boards 2 blocks.

SMC0007 · 03-10-2011, 03:16 PM

The best part of the game was that CP3 had every one on their team raising their hands to their necks in a choking manner, which came to fruition again. David West paid the same price Kenyon Martin did for bullying Dirk around..NOTHING. It's easy to see how outsiders think we look pretty soft, imo you have to be kidding yourself if you aren't upset with that series of events...or lack thereof. Chandlers missed FT, Dirks horrible TO, Kidds stupid foul just sucks, those things just suck but watching our star get plowed into our own bench while no one on our team really does anything especially Dirk and they get possession was sickening. Wash and repeat. If it were a lil extra motivation Dirk needed, hopefully he now has some. He needs to play with a lil chip on his shoulder and get a lil more gritty and pray to play these bitches in the playoffs!

In fact after Dirk got body checked on that next possession the least he should have done was get the damn ball as he did and take it to West! Send him to the bench with an And1. NOT launch the ball across the court when your not even being doubled.

LonghornDub · 03-10-2011, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribosoma

I definitely think they are soft without TC. But that dude is one nasty SOB. His presence alone seems to be infectious where toughness in concerned.

I don't think TC himself is soft, but I still think the team as a whole is.

Kidd Karma · 03-10-2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I don't think TC himself is soft, but I still think the team as a whole is.

TC 13 boards, rest of the team 18. Rebounding is effort, when no one is giving effort when it counts, you deserve to lose. Maybe the team doesn't have a motor, they shut it down too early, fearing injury? Who knows. I think we'll see what we got tonight, see how they respond to RC, problem is it's one night, how do we respond to a West or even Randolph, big slug it out guys, do you allow them to stick their ass and hands on you and shove you out of the way?

mac222b · 03-10-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

whats with all the Crying, people? Swear to god this thread is turning into a 16 year old girl's diary about her crush. Get over it, losses happen. Holy crap.

You wanna talk about Soft? Talk about the Mavs fans in this thread. Seriously.

Who are you? You post twice a year and then come in and put down the people that actually watched the game and are entitled to their opinions?

rabbitproof · 03-10-2011, 04:44 PM

"Tough" as in play = TC, Butler
"Tough" as in crazy = Stevenson
"Tough" injury-wise = Dirk, Kidd, JET
"Tough" relative to size = JJB

Don't know enough about Brewer. The rest of the Mavs probably don't play enough to categorized or don't fit the categories.

I think Carlsile wants more of the first tough. Maybe the second. The rest play "soft" (read: jump shots) even if they are physically tough (relatively injury-prone and good pain tolerance).

mac222b · 03-10-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

The best part of the game was that CP3 had every one on their team raising their hands to their necks in a choking manner, which came to fruition again. David West paid the same price Kenyon Martin did for bullying Dirk around..NOTHING. It's easy to see how outsiders think we look pretty soft, imo you have to be kidding yourself if you aren't upset with that series of events...or lack thereof. Chandlers missed FT, Dirks horrible TO, Kidds stupid foul just sucks, those things just suck but watching our star get plowed into our own bench while no one on our team really does anything especially Dirk and they get possession was sickening. Wash and repeat. If it were a lil extra motivation Dirk needed, hopefully he now has some. He needs to play with a lil chip on his shoulder and get a lil more gritty and pray to play these bitches in the playoffs!

In fact after Dirk got body checked on that next possession the least he should have done was get the damn ball as he did and take it to West! Send him to the bench with an And1. NOT launch the ball across the court when your not even being doubled.

Thank You. You and I are about the only the people on this board who've bothered to mention THE single most important moment of the entire game. Season even. That not a single player got up in David West's grill after he cross checked Dirk into the bench. That includes "tough guy" Tyson Chandler who was right next to West gingerly shooing him away.

This team is lottery bound w/out Dirk. Someone needs to send a message that getting physical with him won't fly.This isnt just another loss. Wins and loses happen. Apologists, save the "its only one game" or "3 losses by 1 point" crap. Anyone who actually watched that game and posted as much has no cred.That was a defining moment for this team. They'll either take it to heart, get tough and fulfill their potential. Or they won't recover and it'll be in their heads from here on out "maybe we ARE soft".

I watch every minute of every game i possibly can. I make excuses not to see my girl, give up getting laid, re-arrange my schedule, miss workouts and social events etc. to watch this team. Live and die with them. They're like friends and family to me. Characters in my favorite novel. I love em unabashedly.

For what it's worth, last night they really let me, and more importantly themselves, down. They let themselves get punked by a second rate team missing it's star player.
Unconscionable...

SMC0007 · 03-10-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

If you look at each game as a learning process, I think what happened is a good thing. They realize that not fighting back can cost the game. As silly as this sounds, it is kind of like negative reinforcement training. Learn from mistakes. I believe this loss wont cause the mavs to spiral into depression, but will fuel their fire for Friday's game vs the (MUCH) better Lakers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Thank You. You and I are about the only the people on this board who've bothered to mention THE single most important moment of the entire game. Season even. That not a single player got up in David West's grill after he cross checked Dirk into the bench. That includes "tough guy" Tyson Chandler who was right next to West gingerly shooing him away.

This team is lottery bound w/out Dirk. Someone needs to send a message that getting physical with him won't fly.This isnt just another loss. Wins and loses happen. Apologists, save the "its only one game" or "3 losses by 1 point" crap. Anyone who actually watched that game and posted as much has no cred.That was a defining moment for this team. They'll either take it to heart, get tough and fulfill their potential. Or they won't recover and it'll be in their heads from here on out "maybe we ARE soft".

I watch every minute of every game i possibly can. I make excuses not to see my girl, give up getting laid, re-arrange my schedule, miss workouts and social events etc. to watch this team. Live and die with them. They're like friends and family to me. Characters in my favorite novel. I love em unabashedly.

For what it's worth, last night they really let me, and more importantly themselves, down. They let themselves get punked by a second rate team missing it's star player.

Great posts.

Eman · 03-10-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Chandler played 25 minutes cause of foul trouble, not 13.

second best Scorer (Rodrique Beaubois), not player!

mavs777 · 03-10-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman

second best Scorer (Rodrique Beaubois), not player!

how many minutes did terry play?

Eman · 03-10-2011, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

how many minutes did terry play?

Jet played 29 minutes and scored 10 points

Beaubois played 13 minutes and scored 9 points..........of course, carlisle took him out after 7 minutes in the 1st, when he had just scored 7 points, he cooled off some from sitting so long after that.

Eman · 03-10-2011, 05:27 PM

but 9 points in 13 minutes is equal to 20 points in 29 minutes, if Carlisle played Roddy Jet minutes

I'd be pleased as punch with 25 minutes for Roddy B.................5 from Jet, 5 from Kidd and JJ, or Deshawn!!!! With some burn, I bet he'll deserve 35 minutes by year end, he's only 23, he can handle that.

Kidd Karma · 03-10-2011, 05:34 PM

I was able to get out to Roddy's 40 point game last year, and I would really like to see RC leave/give more minutes if Roddy's hot. Give Jet a night off here and there. I know rotations are important, but giving the vets a sense of security might be the problem, they know they're coming in regardless, so the mental effort is not there, they maybe there physically, but once they're 10 up with 2 to go, they shut if off. I think the soft term is a good start, but take a game here or there and sit them on the bench.

Underdog · 03-10-2011, 05:36 PM

I wish Mike Fisher had never started charging for his site.

I've read some of the most retarded, basketball-ignorant crap in this thread that I've ever seen on D-M.com...

Where's a good Cadbane trolling when you actually NEED one?

JeffViggiano · 03-10-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman

but 9 points in 13 minutes is equal to 20 points in 29 minutes, if Carlisle played Roddy Jet minutes

I'd be pleased as punch with 25 minutes for Roddy B.................5 from Jet, 5 from Kidd and JJ, or Deshawn!!!! With some burn, I bet he'll deserve 35 minutes by year end, he's only 23, he can handle that.

i think the problem is not (only) roddy-minutes!
we have a deep roster and rick doesn't use that...last night kidd played 35minutes terry 30minutes deshwan+cardinal 38minutes and brewer 0 roddy 13.that's no good.

it's right that in the last 6-7minutes our players MUST be kidd-terry-marion-dirk-TC but if they arrive fresh at that point of game would be better...

and don't tell me about the roddy defence because jack+belinelli drops 42, by more buckets without him on the court.

Kidd Karma · 03-10-2011, 05:55 PM

Interesting strategy on the last play...should not have come down to that:

http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/03/10/ne...ki/#more-11868

ribosoma · 03-10-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I wish Mike Fisher had never started charging for his site.

I've read some of the most retarded, basketball-ignorant crap in this thread that I've ever seen on D-M.com...

Where's a good Cadbane trolling when you actually NEED one?

This. For the love of God, this.

mavs777 · 03-10-2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman

Jet played 29 minutes and scored 10 points

Beaubois played 13 minutes and scored 9 points..........of course, carlisle took him out after 7 minutes in the 1st, when he had just scored 7 points, he cooled off some from sitting so long after that.

Roddy took 10 shots in 13 minutes, he is stealing shots from Dirk, it is pretty incredible people get on JJB for doing the same thing, but if Roddy does it is ok.

ribosoma · 03-10-2011, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Roddy took 10 shots in 13 minutes, he is stealing shots from Dirk it is pretty incredible people get on JJB for doing the same thing but if Roddy does it is ok.

The two back-to-back fouls he had, along with the technical foul, didn't help. Considering we lost by 1, I'd say that was pretty costly.

joemoeschmoe · 03-11-2011, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Thank You. You and I are about the only the people on this board who've bothered to mention THE single most important moment of the entire game. Season even. That not a single player got up in David West's grill after he cross checked Dirk into the bench. That includes "tough guy" Tyson Chandler who was right next to West gingerly shooing him away.

This team is lottery bound w/out Dirk. Someone needs to send a message that getting physical with him won't fly.This isnt just another loss. Wins and loses happen. Apologists, save the "its only one game" or "3 losses by 1 point" crap. Anyone who actually watched that game and posted as much has no cred.That was a defining moment for this team. They'll either take it to heart, get tough and fulfill their potential. Or they won't recover and it'll be in their heads from here on out "maybe we ARE soft".

I watch every minute of every game i possibly can. I make excuses not to see my girl, give up getting laid, re-arrange my schedule, miss workouts and social events etc. to watch this team. Live and die with them. They're like friends and family to me. Characters in my favorite novel. I love em unabashedly.

For what it's worth, last night they really let me, and more importantly themselves, down. They let themselves get punked by a second rate team missing it's star player.
Unconscionable...

Oh come on. Games and championships aren't won by players who react like a spoiled 18 year old boy who just got dissed.

Basketball is not about having a bigger ego and reacting in a less mature way than the other guy. Yes, West is a punk, he did a punk-ass thing to Dirk, and it should've been Mavs ball, but how does some guy getting a technical and possible an ejection in a close game help the team win?

Winning a championship is about playing smart, focused, high % basketball. Yes, you also need to mentally and physically tough, but acting like an insulted gangster has nothing to do with that.

Ninkobei · 03-11-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Thank You. You and I are about the only the people on this board who've bothered to mention THE single most important moment of the entire game. Season even. That not a single player got up in David West's grill after he cross checked Dirk into the bench. That includes "tough guy" Tyson Chandler who was right next to West gingerly shooing him away.

This team is lottery bound w/out Dirk. Someone needs to send a message that getting physical with him won't fly.This isnt just another loss. Wins and loses happen. Apologists, save the "its only one game" or "3 losses by 1 point" crap. Anyone who actually watched that game and posted as much has no cred.That was a defining moment for this team. They'll either take it to heart, get tough and fulfill their potential. Or they won't recover and it'll be in their heads from here on out "maybe we ARE soft".

I watch every minute of every game i possibly can. I make excuses not to see my girl, give up getting laid, re-arrange my schedule, miss workouts and social events etc. to watch this team. Live and die with them. They're like friends and family to me. Characters in my favorite novel. I love em unabashedly.

For what it's worth, last night they really let me, and more importantly themselves, down. They let themselves get punked by a second rate team missing it's star player.
Unconscionable...

Get over it. The mavs kept their cool and showed discipline. 9 times out of 10 that is the best course of action. If the game turned out the other way, we'd all be laughing at how West cant control his emotions.

I'm tired of hot-heads taking everything personal. Would you prefer it if Chandler punched West in the face and got suspended for the season? So juvenile, get over your highschool instincts. The country hasnt turned into Idiocracy yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Who are you? You post twice a year and then come in and put down the people that actually watched the game and are entitled to their opinions?

I dont post every blurb that pops into my head for half a second, and suddenly I lose credit for being a Mavs fan? I fail to see your logic here.

SMC0007 · 03-11-2011, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joemoeschmoe

Oh come on. Games and championships aren't won by players who react like a spoiled 18 year old boy who just got dissed.

Basketball is not about having a bigger ego and reacting in a less mature way than the other guy. Yes, West is a punk, he did a punk-ass thing to Dirk, and it should've been Mavs ball, but how does some guy getting a technical and possible an ejection in a close game help the team win?

Winning a championship is about playing smart, focused, high % basketball. Yes, you also need to mentally and physically tough, but acting like an insulted gangster has nothing to do with that.

Joe and Nin, I thought his post was very good. I don't really think anyone said that our mission in those situations needs to be "act like an insulted gangster", or destroy them with a chair and lose key players for the rest of the season. There's a lot of things you could do, but the key one is keep your composure and finish the game off and perhaps smile and wave at them as they and their fans walk out pissed. You could also, get right back in their face and let them react to that and who knows maybe they throw a punch and get booted and possibly suspended.

Our guys just need to be willing to step up and stand their ground in the face of those situations as many have suggested in an intelligent manner. At times I think of Dennis Rodman, the battles he had with Karl Malone. He would get him so pissed and it seemed like it was his mission to get Karl ejected or at least off his game. No need to throw blows to show the league you are tough, BUT can you stand in their face and take what they have, wether its words or a finger point or a chin or cheek tap?

dude1394 · 03-11-2011, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

The best part of the game was that CP3 had every one on their team raising their hands to their necks in a choking manner, which came to fruition again. David West paid the same price Kenyon Martin did for bullying Dirk around..NOTHING. It's easy to see how outsiders think we look pretty soft, imo you have to be kidding yourself if you aren't upset with that series of events...or lack thereof. Chandlers missed FT, Dirks horrible TO, Kidds stupid foul just sucks, those things just suck but watching our star get plowed into our own bench while no one on our team really does anything especially Dirk and they get possession was sickening. Wash and repeat. If it were a lil extra motivation Dirk needed, hopefully he now has some. He needs to play with a lil chip on his shoulder and get a lil more gritty and pray to play these bitches in the playoffs!

In fact after Dirk got body checked on that next possession the least he should have done was get the damn ball as he did and take it to West! Send him to the bench with an And1. NOT launch the ball across the court when your not even being doubled.

Dirk will continue to:
1 - Be disrespected in the NBA
2 - Have offensive guys go RIGHT AT HIM in the paint.

Until he delivers some hard fouls. He has an opportunity to get back at west in next games and others by delivering some hard fouls. He can also make offensive guys at least THINK about coming into the lane against him by delivering some hard fouls.

Right now defensively he is very soft. I love the dude, he's the main reason I watch basketball....but he has to be more assertive defensively out there. I don't really care about the offense that much, that will come, he's an offensive juggernaut. But he could really help the team out by at least making the other team think that we have two 7-footers in the paint.

dude1394 · 03-11-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Interesting strategy on the last play...should not have come down to that:

http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/03/10/ne...ki/#more-11868

Nice defense but I fault the RC for this one. The top of the FT line is a good dirk shot, further than that it's not good enough.

Also anything close to a post would allow dirk to get a ft attempt TIEING THE GAME!!! Come on man...a foul call or an an-1 and this one's over. Stupid play imo.

I'd much rather see dirk shooting a 10 foot fallaway that's unblockable than a 18-20 footer.

Come on rick...

dude1394 · 03-11-2011, 12:48 PM

Standing your ground is blocking out harder, setting better screens and taking good hard fouls. Scraping to get the next rebound. It's not fake-tough all in your face gangsta' crap. You don't see the spurs or the lakers doing that crap. You see Garnett do it, but he's an idiot...and well known to be VERY fake-tough.

Ninkobei · 03-11-2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Joe and Nin, I thought his post was very good. I don't really think anyone said that our mission in those situations needs to be "act like an insulted gangster", or destroy them with a chair and lose key players for the rest of the season. There's a lot of things you could do, but the key one is keep your composure and finish the game off and perhaps smile and wave at them as they and their fans walk out pissed. You could also, get right back in their face and let them react to that and who knows maybe they throw a punch and get booted and possibly suspended.

Our guys just need to be willing to step up and stand their ground in the face of those situations as many have suggested in an intelligent manner. At times I think of Dennis Rodman, the battles he had with Karl Malone. He would get him so pissed and it seemed like it was his mission to get Karl ejected or at least off his game. No need to throw blows to show the league you are tough, BUT can you stand in their face and take what they have, wether its words or a finger point or a chin or cheek tap?

Yeah, I get carried away sometimes. Its easy to do on this typing doo-hickey.. I agree completely that the mavs need to toughen up a bit. But that is a Given. Its like saying "I dont want to pay higher taxes."

Ideally, the mavs would keep their cool and not let anything the other team does effect their state of mind, as if nothing had happened. It seems like opposing teams can always "get in their head."

SMC0007 · 03-11-2011, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Standing your ground is blocking out harder, setting better screens and taking good hard fouls. Scraping to get the next rebound. It's not fake-tough all in your face gangsta' crap. You don't see the spurs or the lakers doing that crap. You see Garnett do it, but he's an idiot...and well known to be VERY fake-tough.

I agree in part with your definition of standing your ground, but would like to add that there's a little more to it. Often times the game ventures away from just basketball and actual play. There are other variables or cards in play, like the fortitude and ability to handle the mental side of flagrant or technical fouls that are more about the mind and a message an opponent is sending than an actual ball play.

You hear it all the time about "sending a message", that is very real. Kenyon Martin years ago in the playoffs from very early in the game knocked Dirk out of bounds which could be seen as the beginning of the mind game (that was much more than a basketball play) = How far do you want to take this, and what are you going to do? Then another episode was the cheek tap from West = a warning, one more thing you do like that, or if you stand your ground and I don't like it and we are going to fight. There have been other instances along the years but we did lose those series. I'm not saying it's Dirks fault at all but imo there is something to be said about the effect on a team when guys are willing to stand in the face of any situation like that and handle it.

IMO, this is was a great reaction to a flagrant foul and that type of mind game. The end of the video Kobe makes it a point to basically show that he expects that type of thing, but it's not going to stop him or affect him from his mindset:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V8ZukXsWmk

dude1394 · 03-11-2011, 01:14 PM

I don't think opposing teams get in their heads to be honest. Just that the opposing team doesn't fear getting hip checked into the second row when coming into the lane. I hate to quote the little colonel but good hard fouls are important.

dude1394 · 03-11-2011, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I agree in part with your definition of standing your ground, but would like to add that there's a little more to it. Often times the game ventures away from just basketball and actual play. There are other variables or cards in play, like the fortitude and ability to handle the mental side of flagrant or technical fouls that are more about the mind and a message an opponent is sending than an actual ball play.

You hear it all the time about "sending a message", that is very real. Kenyon Martin years ago in the playoffs from very early in the game knocked Dirk out of bounds which could be seen as the beginning of the mind game (that was much more than a basketball play) = How far do you want to take this, and what are you going to do? Then another episode was the cheek tap from West = a warning, one more thing you do like that, or if you stand your ground and I don't like it and we are going to fight. There have been other instances along the years but we did lose those series. I'm not saying it's Dirks fault at all but imo there is something to be said about the effect on a team when guys are willing to stand in the face of any situation like that and handle it.

IMO, this is was a great reaction to a flagrant foul and that type of mind game. The end of the video Kobe makes it a point to basically show that he expects that type of thing, but it's not going to stop him or affect him from his mindset:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V8ZukXsWmk

What are you talking about.

- Who got up in Rajas face?
- Kobe didn't even go towards him.
- Kobe is a showman and that's great but nothing that happened in this sequence didn't happen in the NO game. EXCEPT Dirk getting up and showing how unconcerned he was...So that's all it takes to be tough?