To Melo or not to Melo

[yahyes]

Which has me see Phil Jackson doing salary dumps on their big players. Let Carmelo go to revamp the triangle concept on younger/rookie players. I can see the Knicks dealing a lot to move up in the draft to get a lot of picks. Sorta like Boston did last year revamping it all.

[Vinsanity]

Ok for everyone who's like "ohh I don't think we should sign Melo, he's a ballhog, he'll mess up the flow of our offense, etc."... y'all need to just stop. When you have a chance to sign a player like Carmelo, you do it... especially when our best player is 36 years old. It's common sense. You get the top 10 player and let your top 10 coach figure out how to use him, simple as that.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Vinsanity

Ok for everyone who's like "ohh I don't think we should sign Melo, he's a ballhog, he'll mess up the flow of our offense, etc."... y'all need to just stop. When you have a chance to sign a player like Carmelo, you do it... especially when our best player is 36 years old. It's common sense. You get the top 10 player and let your top 10 coach figure out how to use him, simple as that.

More like top 20 player and top 2 coach...

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Vinsanity

Ok for everyone who's like "ohh I don't think we should sign Melo, he's a ballhog, he'll mess up the flow of our offense, etc."... y'all need to just stop. When you have a chance to sign a player like Carmelo, you do it... especially when our best player is 36 years old. It's common sense. You get the top 10 player and let your top 10 coach figure out how to use him, simple as that.

Welp case closed. Shut the thread down.

Except he does all the things you mentioned. NBA TV spotlights every time he ruins an offense in game, takes bad shots at bad times etc. It's not an Internet rumor how he plays. There's a reason he bounces around teams. His game gets tiring after a few seasons. And he's been on teams that have serviceable players around him. Not to mention he's not taking a significant pay cut.

I just hope we don't go all in on chasing "stars" again. Dallas has never been that type of team anyway.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by spreedom

More like top 20 player and top 2 coach...

Are you saying melo isn't a top 10 player?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Are you saying melo isn't a top 10 player?

I think that that is precisely what he is saying.

I would have agreed, until I started listing off players and I only came up with nine players that were appreciably better. I don't like Melo's game so I'd like to put him in the 15-20 range, but I just don't see more than 6-10 players better than him.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Welp case closed. Shut the thread down.

Except he does all the things you mentioned. NBA TV spotlights every time he ruins an offense in game, takes bad shots at bad times etc. It's not an Internet rumor how he plays. There's a reason he bounces around teams. His game gets tiring after a few seasons. And he's been on teams that have serviceable players around him. Not to mention he's not taking a significant pay cut.

I just hope we don't go all in on chasing "stars" again. Dallas has never been that type of team anyway.

Huh? He's been on two teams his entire career, and the only reason he left the Nuggets is because he wanted to.

[Vinsanity]

Originally Posted by spreedom

More like top 20 player and top 2 coach...

I know Rick is one of the best, but Melo is a top 10 player... don't really see how you can argue against that

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I think that that is precisely what he is saying.

I would have agreed, until I started listing off players and I only came up with nine players that were appreciably better. I don't like Melo's game so I'd like to put him in the 15-20 range, but I just don't see more than 6-10 players better than him.

I'm curious who those 9 are. Lebron, durant, griffin, curry and I guess Paul are the only guys I would say are "appreciably" better and I disagree about cp3.

[dirt_dobber]

Originally Posted by Vinsanity

..... don't really see how you can argue against that

see the list below

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I don't like Melo's game so I'd like to put him in the 15-20 range, but I just don't see more than 6-10 players better than him.

I agree with Erica - here is my list

Dirk Nowitzki
Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Paul George
Chris Paul
LaMarcus Aldridge
Kevin Love
Kobe Bryant
Stephen Curry
James Harden

the above is my 1-10 picks and you have to go a bit further to sniff even a hint of Melo

Dwight Howard
Blake Griffin
Russell Westbrook
Damian Lillard
Anthony Davis

[#41 Shoot em up]

MBT has made it clear.... they want that next "superstar" here and they are going to continue to do everything they can to make that happen.

So of course they are going to make a hard push for Melo........ like with Dwight and CP3, it's a longshot but the Mavs have chosen financial flexibility as the organization's path for now and they will continue on that path till they hit a home run.

As for Ariza and Deng debate..... neither really excites me or in my honest opinion changes the Mavs fortunes too much but I would go with Deng just because he has a better all around game. Another offseason where the Mavs are hoping for a home run, but i'm afraid they will end up hitting a seeing eye single.

[Five-ofan]

Paul George is not a better basketball player than Carmelo, there are others on the list I disagree with but George has become EASILY the most overrated player in basketball. Absolutely elite defender, b- offensive player.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by #41 Shoot em up

MBT has made it clear.... they want that next "superstar" here and they are going to continue to do everything they can to make that happen.

So of course they are going to make a hard push for Melo........ like with Dwight and CP3, it's a longshot but the Mavs have chosen financial flexibility as the organization's path for now and they will continue on that path till they hit a home run.

As for Ariza and Deng debate..... neither really excites me or in my honest opinion changes the Mavs fortunes too much but I would go with Deng just because he has a better all around game. Another offseason where the Mavs are hoping for a home run, but i'm afraid they will end up hitting a seeing eye single.

Melos offense>dengs d, Melos d>dengs o. Melos rebounding>dengs rebounding. I'm not the huge fan of melo that this thread has made me look like, but Iv always been curious why good defensive and average offensive players are considered more all around then great offensive and avg defensive players

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Paul George is not a better basketball player than Carmelo, there are others on the list I disagree with but George has become EASILY the most overrated player in basketball. Absolutely elite defender, b- offensive player.

Paul George doesn't have that jump shot to takeover games, yes. He's all physique mostly I see. Nothing like Melo's style of game.

[goldcrow]

I feel Melo just needs a change of scenery with a solid front office and coaching staff. Probably needs good veteran leadership from Dirk to inspire him too. We saw glimpses of his defense when he was motivated in last year's season. I say at least offer him something.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Paul George is not a better basketball player than Carmelo, there are others on the list I disagree with but George has become EASILY the most overrated player in basketball. Absolutely elite defender, b- offensive player.

He's 85% of Melo on offense and about 200% of Melo on defense... I think there's a VERY strong case that he's a better player.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by spreedom

He's 85% of Melo on offense and about 200% of Melo on defense... I think there's a VERY strong case that he's a better player.

He's about 60 percent of melo on offense if that.

[TripleDipping]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

He's about 60 percent of melo on offense if that.

Slam! Duh duh duh, duh duh duh.

Arrrgghhhh..

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

He's about 60 percent of melo on offense if that.

I can't even fathom that line of thinking.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I can't even fathom that line of thinking.

Based on what?

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I can't even fathom that line of thinking.

Watch this series. George isnt a star offensively

[spreedom]

I agree, George isn't a "star" offensively... but he's a pretty good offensive player in his own right. Basically putting up the same numbers now that Melo was at that early point of his career, but playing with at least double the defensive activity and intensity.

Basically the only advantage whatsoever that Melo has on PG is that he is a better shooter. Other than that, PG has historically been a better passer, rebounder, shotblocker, perimeter defender (drawing the toughest defensive assignment 9 times out of 10).... and honestly, George already has a better playoff resume than Melo does, and he's only been a starter for like two-plus seasons.

One man's whiskey is another man's wine... personally, I'll take the elite defensive player, six years younger, who is still a top 10 offensive wing player that has at least eight prime years left over Melo... who is a volume scorer that has won a grand total of three playoff series in his entire career.

[Five-ofan]

[QUOTE=spreedom;1346543]I agree, George isn't a "star" offensively... but he's a pretty good offensive player in his own right. Basically putting up the same numbers now that Melo was at that early point of his career, but playing with at least double the defensive activity and intensity.

Basically the only advantage whatsoever that Melo has on PG is that he is a better shooter. Other than that, PG has historically been a better passer, rebounder, shotblocker, perimeter defender (drawing the toughest defensive assignment 9 times out of 10).... and honestly, George already has a better playoff resume than Melo does, and he's only been a starter for like two-plus seasons.

One man's whiskey is another man's wine... personally, I'll take the elite defensive player, six years younger, who is still a top 10 offensive wing player that has at least eight prime years left over Melo... who is a volume scorer that has won a grand total of three playoff%

[dude1394]

Paul George or wacko mello? Hmmm...is it really that tough of a choice?

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Paul George or wacko mello? Hmmm...is it really that tough of a choice?

No, melo is much better

[Five-ofan]

For the final 59 games of this season George's numbers were 20.5/7.1/3.6/1.8/0.3 with 2.9 topg on 40.2/34.7/86.7% shooting. That's absolutely awful for a supposed star over 75% of a season.

[dirt_dobber]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

For the final 59 games of this season George's numbers were 20.5/7.1/3.6/1.8/0.3 with 2.9 topg on 40.2/34.7/86.7% shooting. .

good homework and great stat +rep

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

For the final 59 games of this season George's numbers were 20.5/7.1/3.6/1.8/0.3 with 2.9 topg on 40.2/34.7/86.7% shooting. That's absolutely awful for a supposed star over 75% of a season.

It'll be interesting to see if the Pacers get an assistant coach that can help install a real offense in Indiana... because their offense has been atrocious under the Vogel head coaching stint.

Yeah, he probably shouldn't be an offensive cornerstone but that doesn't disqualify him as a star or a franchise cornerstone in my opinion.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by spreedom

It'll be interesting to see if the Pacers get an assistant coach that can help install a real offense in Indiana... because their offense has been atrocious under the Vogel head coaching stint.

Yeah, he probably shouldn't be an offensive cornerstone but that doesn't disqualify him as a star or a franchise cornerstone in my opinion.

I agree but at the same time, not having a ball handler that can run the pick and roll(George's biggest offensive weakness relative to other perimeter scorers, is a huge handicap. Especially when you consider that David west is a very good pick and roll big.

[spreedom]

The Pacers, as good and successful as they are, are in serious need of a starting lineup change. I'm guessing Lance Stephenson is gonzo this summer, and George Hill might be moved to the two if they can find a reliable point guard in free agency or via trade.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by spreedom

The Pacers, as good and successful as they are, are in serious need of a starting lineup change. I'm guessing Lance Stephenson is gonzo this summer, and George Hill might be moved to the two if they can find a reliable point guard in free agency or via trade.

Who makes them better that is remotely available though? I feel like they've reached their glass ceiling. They remind me quite a bit of an inverted version of the early 00s mavs. With their d being as elite as that version of the mavs d and their O being as bad as those mavs d. The problem is its much much more difficult to cobble together a top 10 o out of scheme and roll players then it is a top ten d. Unless George really does become a superstar I think this is pretty much it for them as anything resembling an elite team which is sad considering that run only lasted about 30 games.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Who makes them better that is remotely available though?

Too early to tell at this point... but it's not like there aren't pure point guards out there to be had.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Too early to tell at this point... but it's not like there aren't pure point guards out there to be had.

That defend and shoot and run a team well enough for them to make up for losing Stephenson? The problem is Stephenson made the biggest jump of anyone on their team this year and was the biggest part of them going from good to very good, but they are losing him, so you have to replace him and hill if you move hill to the bench and they have no cap room and other than hibbert, no trade assets.

[yahyes]

Wouldn't hurt to sign Carmelo if he chooses to use his ETO now. Team him up with Monta and Dirk. Then bring back Harris, Marion, Carter, and Blair. Let's give it a run

[yahyes]

And to those talking about Lance. Yes, he sounds good. But why not give big money to Gortat and Carmelo combined instead?

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by yahyes

And to those talking about Lance. Yes, he sounds good. But why not give big money to Gortat and Carmelo combined instead?

We don't have enough cap space for both.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

That defend and shoot and run a team well enough for them to make up for losing Stephenson? The problem is Stephenson made the biggest jump of anyone on their team this year and was the biggest part of them going from good to very good, but they are losing him, so you have to replace him and hill if you move hill to the bench and they have no cap room and other than hibbert, no trade assets.

I think they are good enough defensively that they can definitely get away with adding a weak/below average defensive player if that guy gives their offense more balance. Watching the Pacers try to get easy looks is painful. I think their best course of action with the starting lineup would be shifting Hill to SG and getting a point guard that can actually run an offense. Calderon actually makes a ton of sense for them but I'm having a hard time coming up with a trade scenario that makes sense right now... but the Pacers have a lot of attractive trade assets at their disposal right now including Hibbert, S&T Lance, Mahinmi/Watson (both excellent backups), Scola (less than $1M guaranteed next season), and Copeland, who is essentially an expiring contract after this season. Along with their draft picks, they can move one or two of those pieces in the right deal and get a good point guard in return.

Originally Posted by yahyes

And to those talking about Lance. Yes, he sounds good. But why not give big money to Gortat and Carmelo combined instead?

For one thing, it isn't an either/or proposition. For another, without some pretty significant roster moves, we can't afford two max or near-max guys.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I think they are good enough defensively that they can definitely get away with adding a weak/below average defensive player if that guy gives their offense more balance. Watching the Pacers try to get easy looks is painful. I think their best course of action with the starting lineup would be shifting Hill to SG and getting a point guard that can actually run an offense. Calderon actually makes a ton of sense for them but I'm having a hard time coming up with a trade scenario that makes sense right now... but the Pacers have a lot of attractive trade assets at their disposal right now including Hibbert, S&T Lance, Mahinmi/Watson (both excellent backups), Scola (less than $1M guaranteed next season), and Copeland, who is essentially an expiring contract after this season. Along with their draft picks, they can move one or two of those pieces in the right deal and get a good point guard in return.



For one thing, it isn't an either/or proposition. For another, without some pretty significant roster moves, we can't afford two max or near-max guys.

Hibbert is the biggest part of their defense. Lose him and lose Lance and don't replace them with elite defenders and you aren't anything special defensively anymore and then it's a complete overhaul.

Also what solid pg are you getting for any combination of mahimi, copeland scola and Watson?
I'd be all over a lance sign and trade for caldy but the mavs have said they don't have interest in him.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Hibbert is the biggest part of their defense. Lose him and lose Lance and don't replace them with elite defenders and you aren't anything special defensively anymore and then it's a complete overhaul.

I think they could lose Hibbert and still be a top 10-12 defense since their perimeter guys are so solid. But the Pacers' struggles in the playoffs show that the team needs more balance, specifically someone they can count on to make plays offensively. Paul George isn't that guy yet but if they could get a competent pick and roll point guard they'd have at least one go-to play that they could lean on when they struggle to score.

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Also what solid pg are you getting for any combination of mahimi, copeland scola and Watson?
I'd be all over a lance sign and trade for caldy but the mavs have said they don't have interest in him.

...glad you didn't include the two best assets that I mentioned, Hibbert and future first-round picks.

Like I said, we don't even really know who is available right now. There are plenty of solid PGs in the NBA and the Pacers have shown over the past year that they won't hesitate before making trades. They might even trade one of their big pieces (Hibbert, S&T Lance, or even West) if it gets them the right kind of player. I don't know who that guy is because how they break up their starting five is going to dictate what kind of player they're going to trade for, and until we know which players they're shopping for sure, we won't know who they're shopping them for.

[MavzMan]

Can someone explain why the MBT is not considering Lance? I know he has personality conflicts with his teammates ... like wanting to win too much. I would love to have a guy that driven on our team which is very similar to Blair during the SA series. Given the players that the Mavs have rehabbed in the past, I don't think Lance is that big of a problem. At least considering you are getting someone that could potentially give you triple doubles.

I would do Jose+<player> for Lance all day and every day. What about Jose and Ellington for something in the range of 9 mill? Wouldn't that leave another 10 or so for Deng? That would be a massive upgrade.