Dallas Mavericks Offseason Thread - Page 40 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

mqywaaah · 06-12-2009, 10:11 PM

BTW any updates on Kidd's plans next season?

grndmstr_c · 06-12-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqywaaah

BTW any updates on Kidd's plans next season?

None that I've seen, and there won't be anything substantive until July 1 at the earliest, but the general consensus from what I have read (DMN, db.com, primarily) is that Kidd will more than likely be back, but if he isn't the Mavs are well situated to get something of value for him in a S&T.

bigox71 · 06-12-2009, 10:24 PM

As long as we're throwing out silly trades:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...tradeId=n668lz

grndmstr_c · 06-12-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Frankly I'm not crazy about those trades. I don't like Okafor at center, and I think we lose in those deals.

The proposal you were commenting on there isn't one that appeals to me (not that PER is the end-all-be-all, but if Hollinger's formulas have you down 5 games after one of those trades you need to think twice about the wisdom of the scenario you've come up with), but I can think of others that end up with Okafor as the Mavs starting center that I'd be quite happy with. Not sure they'd be quite so pleasing to Charlotte...

mac222b · 06-13-2009, 12:16 AM

Read today that Charlotte isn't fielding a summer league team in order to save some dough. Sounds like cost cutting mode. How much can that possibly save them anyway-a half million?! Okafor's not going anywhere.

FreshJive · 06-13-2009, 01:07 AM

Best thing about Gay is when Dirk goes down he can slide right in and shoulder the load.

BGMaverick9 · 06-13-2009, 01:39 AM

How costly is it to really put a SL team together? I mean seriously...are you pinching that many pennies?

With Okafor I would have these questions:
How are his hands?
1-10, how efficient is he if you just throw it to him in the post?
How is his lateral quickness?

etc. etc.

Again, compared to situations with potential trade partners, there are TONS of routes you could go with Charlotte. If they really are in a cost-cutting mode, we've got a pretty good amount of pieces they'll want. They also know that just shipping out the talent and getting cheap and starting from scratch can be done if you're smart (look at OKC). Just empty it out the cupboard and start piling up picks and get that salary down, down down.

Wallace, Felton and Okafor and their pick would be pieces I'm pretty interested in with that squad. If this is true that they're potentially going into fire-sale mode then at least 1-2, maybe even 3 of those parts could be had. They'll try to add Diaw, Nazr, Vlad-Rad to the deal...we sure as heck aren't taking Diop back! It seems like most teams ideally want you to take one of those contracts in these kinds of situations, sometimes they find a taker, sometimes they don't and just wait it out. If you have to do add a bloating contract to seal the deal, you've gotta do it.

grndmstr_c · 06-13-2009, 02:03 AM

Charlotte's sort of funny. For all their mediocrity, they've got five guys who _might_ be obtainable if they're really in a cost cutting mood who I wouldn't object to seeing on the Mavs roster next season (Okafor, Wallace, Felton, Diaw, Rad). Says something about just how much it means to have a first-team All-NBA guy like Dirk on your squad that the Bobcats missed the playoffs in the East and the Mavs made the second round in the West. Also says something about the holes the Mavs have to fill, unfortunately.

But yeah, if Diaw or Rad were the "price" of working a deal for one of the more desirable Bobcats, that'd absolutely be something worth looking at. Nazr...the bar gets set higher if he's the junk contract they're trying to pawn off on somebody else.

BGMaverick9 · 06-13-2009, 02:34 AM

I mentioned it to grndmstr_c, I think #12 is available in the sense that Larry Brown really doesn't trust rookies so they barely see the light of day. Why would a team that is apparently trying to cut costs add on a contract for someone who isn't going to see much playing time?

The question is, if you had 12 and 22...which is a spot I'd love the Mavs to be in: Who do you take at 12 and then at 22?

Just give Charlotte 3 million and a coupon or something haha.

alby · 06-13-2009, 02:38 AM

I would take Okafor as the starting center of the Mavericks.

mac222b · 06-13-2009, 03:08 AM

I was just thinking the same thing BG. About how we should take on a contract if it means landing a couple of Bobcats. Depends on how much they're willing to give as far as which contract we take back. I think Okafor averaged a double double for them and blocks shots and probably is off the table. They almost made the playoffs and they won't just start over especially w/ Brown. But they are in cost cutting mode, for sure. The problem with Charlotte as a trade partner is they are almost under the cap as it is and unless they just want to do a straight salary dump Stack doesn't hold as much value for them. So Stack for G.Wallace works but they proly won't do it. We needed a 3rd team(OKC)to facilitate the Felton deal because they wanted Watson back and not Stack. OKC shrewdly declined(or Augustine got hurt or whatever). If they plan to re-sign Felton then Stack for Wallace might allow them that. But it seems like we need a 3rd team with Charlotte. We can't really take back a bad contract and still have a worthwhile trade unless they give us their pick(which has no monetary value pre-draft?). Best we could do is something like Stack&J-Ho for G.Wallace&Felton(S&T). We can't trade them Damp unless we think we can get a Center like Pachulia w/the MLE. That's assuming we even want Pachulia as our Center anyway.

mac222b · 06-13-2009, 03:19 AM

Damp, Stack, J-Ho, cash for
Wallace, Felton(8 mil per),Bell,1st rd Pick,Mohammed

leaves us with two 1st round picks, Jet or Kidd and our Exceptions as our remaining assets.

pros-we're way better defensively. Wallace and Felton get to the rim. we grab a 1st
cons-we have NO CENTER!!! and a logjam at guard

mac222b · 06-13-2009, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I mentioned it to grndmstr_c, I think #12 is available in the sense that Larry Brown really doesn't trust rookies so they barely see the light of day. Why would a team that is apparently trying to cut costs add on a contract for someone who isn't going to see much playing time?

The question is, if you had 12 and 22...which is a spot I'd love the Mavs to be in: Who do you take at 12 and then at 22?

Just give Charlotte 3 million and a coupon or something haha.

At #12 Earl Clark and if he's gone Gerald Henderson
At #22 Jeff Teague(injured?), Sam Young, DaJuan Summers, Marcus Thornton, Patrick Mills
this is assuming Budinger and Terrence Williams are gone at 22
don't know enough about the Israeli or French guy

Thespiralgoeson · 06-13-2009, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

That's assuming we even want Pachulia as our Center anyway.

I know I don't.

SMC0007 · 06-13-2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I mentioned it to grndmstr_c, I think #12 is available in the sense that Larry Brown really doesn't trust rookies so they barely see the light of day. Why would a team that is apparently trying to cut costs add on a contract for someone who isn't going to see much playing time?

The question is, if you had 12 and 22...which is a spot I'd love the Mavs to be in: Who do you take at 12 and then at 22?

Just give Charlotte 3 million and a coupon or something haha.

#12 Terrence Williams

#22 Teague

bobatundi · 06-13-2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigox71

As long as we're throwing out silly trades:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...tradeId=n668lz

That's awesome. Hollinger predicts that team would win 88 games, and lose -6 games.

BGMaverick9 · 06-13-2009, 11:22 AM

The 'Cats are probably just going to extend the Qualifying offer for Felton and hope that settles the situation. It's roughly 5.5 million, so it's pretty much a MLE offer.

mac222b · 06-13-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

The 'Cats are probably just going to extend the Qualifying offer for Felton and hope that settles the situation. It's roughly 5.5 million, so it's pretty much a MLE offer.

Could be. Maybe he waits for the 2010 bonanza. But if we offer him 6yrs. it's a lot of money to turn down. He can't expect to get more than 8 million or so per year. So why wait a year and risk injury for a 4yr. 32 million deal when you could do it now? Either way it's about 36 million. If we're agressive we've got a great shot at Felton.

CapitanObvious · 06-13-2009, 09:38 PM

Heard James Singleton is buffing up, is there in any chance this is related to Gay being moved here?

toby451 · 06-13-2009, 09:41 PM

I found this to be quite interesting indeed!

Shooting Guards

Honorable mention: I'm not ready to put Delonte West (-6.26) in with the elites yet, but his adjusted plus-minus numbers were outstanding this season. The Cavs really missed him when he was injured. He's clearly putting a lot more effort into the proceedings than he did as a younger player, when his primary tactic was letting the player drive past him and then trying to block the shot from behind. He's since graduated to higher-percentage maneuvers.

I thought Raja Bell (-1.58) lost half a step, but he's still tough as nails and was a big reason the Bobcats made such big strides on defense this season -- they were a surprising No. 7 in defensive efficiency. Bruce Bowen (-3.52) certainly lost a step, in addition to his starting job, but he still could make things hell for opposing scorers in short bursts. Boston's Tony Allen (-4.36) is a train wreck on offense, but really brings it on D -- I thought the Celtics missed him more than they let on in the second half of the season.

I had a hard time leaving Kobe Bryant (+2.44) out of the top three -- he's been a regular on my teams the past couple years -- but we had a strong crew at the 2 this season and his adjusted plus-minus was much weaker than past seasons.

Third team: Dwyane Wade, Miami (-3.56)
Wade still takes some low-percentage gambles, but not nearly as many as he did the past two seasons, when he'd run himself out of nearly every play. And by being more solid in the half court he's put himself in position to reject shots at a prodigious rate for a 6-4 guard -- the dude is 16th in blocks with 1.3 a game, in addition to ranking second in steals. His adjusted plus-minus numbers are strong, too.

Second team: Jason Kidd, Mavericks (-4.93)
He's a point guard on offense, but on D he's pretty much a shooting guard. Kidd has been much more effective guarding this position for the past several years, and the Mavs acknowledged this reality by pairing him most often with Jason Terry and J.J. Barea and allowing Kidd to defend the 2s.

Because of his size and competitiveness, he's still really good at this, as witnessed by his outstanding plus-minus numbers (the same numbers, basically, that Mark Cuban has used to defend the Kidd-for-Harris trade). Give Dallas credit for realizing Kidd's strengths and weaknesses and putting him in position to succeed on D.

First team: Ron Artest, Rockets (-4.53)
Artest effectively became the 2 when Tracy McGrady checked out, and save for his trash-talking Kobe Bryant into a fourth-quarter explosion he was as good as he's been in years. Artest has always had amazing physical skills at the defensive end but seemed caught up in being an offensive player the past couple seasons; this season his nightly effort has been more consistent on D, and it's shown in his being the primary defensive cog on the league's No. 4 defensive team.

Anyways, I wonder how a lineup of Kidd at point, Felton at the 2, with Kidd guarding the 2's and Felton on the 1's would work defensive wise.

Offensive wise, I do find it odd though that Raymonds 3 point shot has been getting worse since he came into the league. I dont watch many cats games, so all I see are numbers.

grndmstr_c · 06-13-2009, 10:06 PM

For those who hadn't heard it or didn't see the link over on LMF, here's a link to Cuban on Galloway.

http://sports.espn.go.com/stations/p...ast&id=4255263

A few things of note.
-Said he thought there were 4 guys in the draft with all-star potential, but in general seemed to agree with the consensus that it's not a particularly deep draft year.

-Indicated there were two reasons he'd take on long-term salary: 1) more room in 2010, 2) all-star caliber performer. My thoughts on this one: 1) JET would be available in a 1 for 2 type deal where at least one of the guys coming back is an expiring, 2) With Stack, if they can't find a real quality starter with him, the other type of deal they'd be willing to make would be one in which they provide immediate savings in exchange for a rotation player who expires after next season, 3) You can stop including Josh and Damp in trade proposals that Cuban/Donnie wouldn't see as no-brainers (emphasis on the fact that it is, in fact, Cuban and Donnie's opinions that count here).

-Addressing the Cats' financial situation, said he did NOT think they were one of the teams that would be desperate to reduce salary. Bye bye Okafor dreams, bye bye Wallace dreams, methinks.

BGMaverick9 · 06-13-2009, 11:22 PM

thanks for that, grndmstr_c.

That draft comment makes me think the moving up to #5 idea is bogus. I mean if they think Jordan Hill is seriously 1/4 of the star power of the draft...that seems pretty bold but you better be right or you're a fool in the end.

I'm actually getting really, really tired of hearing about "no-brainer" deals. It just makes it seem like if it's not a Gasol-steal...they ain't interested.

mavs777 · 06-14-2009, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigox71

As long as we're throwing out silly trades:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...tradeId=n668lz

dirno2000 · 06-14-2009, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

thanks for that, grndmstr_c.

That draft comment makes me think the moving up to #5 idea is bogus. I mean if they think Jordan Hill is seriously 1/4 of the star power of the draft...that seems pretty bold but you better be right or you're a fool in the end.

I'm actually getting really, really tired of hearing about "no-brainer" deals. It just makes it seem like if it's not a Gasol-steal...they ain't interested.

This is kind of what I was talking about a couple of weeks ago when I said I wasn't sure how much of a risk Cuban was willing to take to get this thing back to a championship level.

This interview shed a little more light as he talked about the type of player that he'd take on salary for. Still there's some ambiguity there. What does he consider an All-Star? Would that only include players who have gone to the ASG in the last couple of years? Can we stop talking about guys like Richard Jefferson and Gerald Wallace who have never been to an All Star game? What about Michael Redd? He's been an All Star but not since 2004 and he's coming off a major injury. Vince Carter's a name that gets tossed around quite a bit and may be available but he's missed the last couple of ASG's. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

I liked Galloway's question about the potential of this team if we stand pat. Cuban said that it depends on the match ups and went on to talk about how Orlando matched up with Cleveland. I wish Galloway would have followed up with something to the effect of "what set of match ups would have carried us to the finals this year? Matchups may help you for a series (see Golden State) but you're not going to win a ring because you got a good draw. You need a team good enough to have a "match up" advantage on pretty much the whole league to win to all.

BGMaverick9 · 06-14-2009, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

This is kind of what I was talking about a couple of weeks ago when I said I wasn't sure how much of a risk Cuban was willing to take to get this thing back to a championship level.

This interview shed a little more light as he talked about the type of player that he'd take on salary for. Still there's some ambiguity there. What does he consider an All-Star? Would that only include players who have gone to the ASG in the last couple of years? Can we stop talking about guys like Richard Jefferson and Gerald Wallace who have never been to an All Star game? What about Michael Redd? He's been an All Star but not since 2004 and he's coming off a major injury. Vince Carter's a name that gets tossed around quite a bit and may be available but he's missed the last couple of ASG's. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

I liked Galloway's question about the potential of this team if we stand pat. Cuban said that it depends on the match ups and went on to talk about how Orlando matched up with Cleveland. I wish Galloway would have followed up with something to the effect of "what set of match ups would have carried us to the finals this year? Matchups may help you for a series (see Golden State) but you're not going to win a ring because you got a good draw. You need a team good enough to have a "match up" advantage on pretty much the whole league to win to all.

He's willing to take a risk, the Kidd deal proves that. It just sounds really annoying know to hear the no-brainer over and over. He just can't be sitting on the idea that a Gasol deal will come his way, and if it doesn't he's not trading.

I think he's looking for one who has been there lately or has star power. Redd would be an intriguing guy but it's tough because he's coming off a major injury. I think they'd look to ship him out, but I think they're expecting a lot of "no thank you" if they try to offer him to a team...I'd be very surprised if Cuban and Co. said No to that though. VC would definitely be in the mix. I would be interested in either guy.

And you're right about the matchups theory. It's good to have a few in your bag that can get you a series or two, but you've gotta have the well-rounded and highly productive team to take it all the way.

ghazi · 06-14-2009, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

This is your reasoning?

Yes. Too young, soft, doesn't play defense, takes terrible shots, etc. Not much better than Josh although he certainly has more upside. Not a championship caliber core player.

Young guys don't win titles!

mac222b · 06-14-2009, 02:57 AM

Well we were trying to trade Stack for Salmons who's not all-star material(although he played like one down the stretch for them)so it's a little disingenuous of Cubes to say we would only take back an all-star. A guy like Salmons, with a healthy J-Ho, maybe gets us by Denver but not the Lakers. If we use the MLE on a solid contributor and trade Stack for a starter or vice versa we as fans can't really complain. We'd still have J-Ho and Damp to deal if need be and our 1st rd. pick. J-Ho is playing for a contract, in a way. He could have a monster year. We Should only deal him for a no-brainer.

dirno2000 · 06-14-2009, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

He's willing to take a risk, the Kidd deal proves that.

The Kidd deal was risky in that we were trading a 25 year old point guard and two first rounders for a 35 yerar old point guard and gambling that we could win in all in the next two years.

Financially it couldn't' have been less risky. Antoine Wright was an expiring deal and Kidd was $21MM coming off the books in a year and a half. Even if you resign him you knew he wasn't getting close to that kind of money.

Risky is bringing in Vince Carter at $16.5MM a year when you don't KNOW that he makes you better than the Lakers.

Thespiralgoeson · 06-14-2009, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

The Kidd deal was risky in that we were trading a 25 year old point guard and two first rounders for a 35 yerar old point guard and gambling that we could win in all in the next two years.

Financially it couldn't' have been less risky. Antoine Wright was an expiring deal and Kidd was $21MM coming off the books in a year and a half. Even if you resign him you knew he wasn't getting close to that kind of money.

Risky is bringing in Vince Carter at $16.5MM a year when you don't KNOW that he makes you better than the Lakers.

Well I don't think there's anybody who you KNOW is gonna make you better than the Lakers. VC is someone I would definitely be willing to take the risk on. D2k, you mentioned before that you thought Baron Davis was the most talented player we have a realistic shot at getting. I have to say I think VC belongs at the top of that list. His best days may be behind him, but he can still give you 20+ a night, can move the ball, and defend at decent level. He gives us everything we need out of that position. As far as shooting guards go, I don't think there's anyone else we have a shot at that can come close to fitting that description.

grndmstr_c · 06-14-2009, 04:10 AM

VC, whatever you think of his faults, is an all-star caliber player. That's just the facts of the matter. Give me VC next to Josh/Dirk/Kidd/JET, and I'll take my chances against the Lakers or anybody else for that matter.

GW and RJ are no brainers, too, if all they cost you is Stack. It's not (or it shouldn't be) whether you've made an all-star game...it's whether you'd be an acceptable all-star selection under the right circumstances. Let's not forget that Wally's been there. I'd take RJ or GW over him any day, and I think Cuban would too.

Thespiralgoeson · 06-14-2009, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

VC, whatever you think of his faults, is an all-star caliber player. That's just the facts of the matter. Give me VC next to Josh/Dirk/Kidd/JET, and I'll take my chances against the Lakers or anybody else for that matter.

Amen brother, give me VC, a solid scorer off the bench with the MLE, and a smart draft choice and the Mavs are ready to go to war.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-14-2009, 07:42 AM

Shaq is still an all-star. To me, all signs at this moment point to him. He and Cubes are friends, he has one year left on his deal, he wants to be here, Cubes is known to pay older all-stars 20 mil in a given season (Kidd obviously), the Mavs need low-post scoring....I'd be shocked if management didn't go after him.

alby · 06-14-2009, 09:36 AM

Josh Howard played in an all-star game, so let's not read too much into this all-star caliber player business.

sike · 06-14-2009, 10:03 AM

I'd be happy with VC or Shaq + other small moves...

Robillion · 06-14-2009, 12:38 PM

I think Shaq is going to be here next season.... I hope that happens. I just hope Damp and Stack are taken advantage of this summer. Even if both of those went to get Shaq. I will not be happy to see either of those two on our team next season.

alby · 06-14-2009, 03:57 PM

I hope Shaq goes to Cleveland so we can end all those talks.

dirno2000 · 06-14-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Well I don't think there's anybody who you KNOW is gonna make you better than the Lakers. VC is someone I would definitely be willing to take the risk on. D2k, you mentioned before that you thought Baron Davis was the most talented player we have a realistic shot at getting. I have to say I think VC belongs at the top of that list. His best days may be behind him, but he can still give you 20+ a night, can move the ball, and defend at decent level. He gives us everything we need out of that position. As far as shooting guards go, I don't think there's anyone else we have a shot at that can come close to fitting that description.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying. I'd take the risk on Vince in a heartbeat but I don't have to pay him. I'm not convince that Cuban would and technically he has an out depending on how he defines "All-Star". I guess I'd feel more comfortable if his statements were more along the lines of "I don't mind spending money if it will improve this team".

Again, I could be looking for something that's not there. I certainly hope that's the case.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-14-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

I hope Shaq goes to Cleveland so we can end all those talks.

Got a ton of other topics to discuss?

Nowitzki4President · 06-14-2009, 08:31 PM

Get me a line up of

Kaman/Hollins
Dirk/Bass
RJ/Wright
VC/MLE (Someone like Pietrus, he's a Free agent right? lol)
Kidd/JJ/Draft pick

That's actually possible of happening.

And that should be able to get us a title.

241mavsrule · 06-14-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

Get me a line up of

Kaman/Hollins
Dirk/Bass
RJ/Wright
VC/MLE (Someone like Pietrus, he's a Free agent right? lol)
Kidd/JJ/Draft pick

That's actually possible of happening.

And that should be able to get us a title.

How do you propose we do this