Offseason 2010 Thread - Page 41 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

twistaeffect2004 · 07-09-2010, 08:42 PM

The Mavs are pursuing Jefferson, but talks have stalled because of their insistence for the Wolves to take on contracts instead of the DUST chip.

http://www.nba.com/news/features/ald...10.freeagency/
Here's the full article from David Aldridge.

Quote:

The Dallas Mavericks are continuing their pursuit of Minnesota Timberwolves forward Al Jefferson, according to sources, but talks between the teams have stalled due to Dallas' insistence that the Wolves take on contracts other than that of center Erick Dampier.

Sources say the Mavericks want Minnesota to take on the contracts of guards DeShawn Stevenson (set to make $4.1 million next season) and Matt Carroll (who has three years and $11.7 million remaining on his deal), and are reluctant to send Dampier to Minnesota for Jefferson, whom the Wolves have been shopping for several weeks, and who has three years and $42 million left on his deal. But Minnesota has no interest in either player, with point guards Jonny Flynn and Ramon Sessions on the roster, having acquired shooting guard Martell Webster from Portland in a Draft day trade and taking swingman Wes Johnson fourth overall in the first round.

The Wolves also acquired second-year forward Michael Beasley from Miami Thursday night, making their already-crowded frontcourt even more stuffed. Minnesota has already given center Darko Milicic a new four-year, $20 million deal this summer, and plans to bring 6-11 center prospect Nikola Pekovic from overseas to the NBA for next season to try and get minutes on top of forward Kevin Love.

Dampier's contract is valuable because his $13 million salary is not guaranteed for next season; he had to play in at least 70 games or 2,100 minutes last season, and wound up playing only 54 games and 1,280 minutes. The Mavericks aren't completely averse to putting his contract in a deal for Jefferson but would prefer to hold onto to it to use in other potential deals.

The Mavericks have re-signed franchise player Dirk Nowitzki (four years, $80 million) and starting center Brendan Haywood (six years, $55 million) to long-term contracts this summer. If Dallas acquired Jefferson it would have one of the biggest and deepest frontcourts in the league, perhaps capable of matching up with the likes of the Lakers in the playoffs.

Underdog · 07-09-2010, 08:49 PM

Looks like we have loftier plans for the DUST Chip...

I'd love to see Minny bite!

sike · 07-09-2010, 09:10 PM

Donnie and Cubes are up to something...

If they could get Jefferson AND Rubio for DUST, I'd be all over that.

twistaeffect2004 · 07-09-2010, 09:10 PM

I don't see any reason they'd take back Matt Carroll's contract though. It'd be unbelievable and the Minnesota braintrust has made some questionable moves in the past.

Jefferson seems to be severely undervalued though. How many 25 year old 20 and 10 players are there in basketball?

twistaeffect2004 · 07-09-2010, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

If they could get Jefferson AND Rubio for DUST, I'd be all over that.

Wow, now there's an interesting one. Would you do Jefferson and Corey Brewer for DUST?

Underdog · 07-09-2010, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

Jefferson seems to be severely undervalued though. How many 25 year old 20 and 10 players are there in basketball?

One, as of this moment...

Is he the "backup 4/5" that Cuban referenced? If he can accept a role behind Dirk/Haywood, then consider me aroused (...in the pants!)

grndmstr_c · 07-09-2010, 09:13 PM

Latest tweet from Aldridge has Cavs now sniffing around Jefferson (TE from Queen James S&T).

sike · 07-09-2010, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Latest tweet from Aldridge has Cavs now sniffing around Jefferson (TE from Queen James S&T).

That makes a ridiculous amount of sense...

Underdog · 07-09-2010, 09:19 PM

Cock-blockers...

sike · 07-09-2010, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

Wow, now there's an interesting one. Would you do Jefferson and Corey Brewer for DUST?

only if you think Brewer is the long term answer at the 2...I just don't know his game well enough to call it.

twistaeffect2004 · 07-09-2010, 09:22 PM

My fear is the Mavericks overplay their hand and lose this guy. Al Jefferson is a really, really good player who seems to have gotten a bit stagnant on a very bad team. If he's there, and the DUST chip is what it takes to get him? Then you do it IMO.

I know the sexy deal is for Chris Paul but the odds of getting him are ridiculously slim. Maybe even slimmer than our chances of getting LeBron were. We have a chip that can bring us back one of the best post players in basketball and he's smack dab in his prime.

Underdog · 07-09-2010, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

My fear is the Mavericks overplay their hand and lose this guy. Al Jefferson is a really, really good player who seems to have gotten a bit stagnant on a very bad team. If he's there, and the DUST chip is what it takes to get him? Then you do it IMO.

I know the sexy deal is for Chris Paul but the odds of getting him are ridiculously slim. Maybe even slimmer than our chances of getting LeBron were. We have a chip that can bring us back one of the best post players in basketball and he's smack dab in his prime.

I'm starting to come around to this idea, especially since we re-signed Haywood!

(assuming Jefferson is down with being an all-purpose backup at the 4/5...)

twistaeffect2004 · 07-09-2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

only if you think Brewer is the long term answer at the 2...I just don't know his game well enough to call it.

Probably not, but he can shoot the rock a little bit from the outside, and he can D it up. He'd be an upgrade on the bench IMO.

I'm certainly not an expert on Corey Brewer, but I think he can serve as a nice role player here. I think he can be a Matt Barnes type player, and I'm a big fan of Barnes and players of that elk.

grndmstr_c · 07-09-2010, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

That makes a ridiculous amount of sense...

Yep. Enough sense that I'd be surprised if Cleveland didn't end up beating whatever the Mavs were willing to offer. In Dallas Jefferson is a high-priced backup. Cleveland, on the other hand, would be looking to sell him as their new franchise player. The walk to back up all of Gilbert's talk.

sike · 07-09-2010, 09:30 PM

If Jefferson comes in and is promised the back up roles at 4 and 5...you do NOT have enough playing time for Shawn Marion. Not as long as Caron Butler is on this team.

Underdog · 07-09-2010, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Yep. Enough sense that I'd be surprised if Cleveland didn't end up beating whatever the Mavs were willing to offer. In Dallas Jefferson is a high-priced backup. Cleveland, on the other hand, would be looking to sell him as their new franchise player. The walk to back up all of Gilbert's talk.

[

sike · 07-09-2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Yep. Enough sense that I'd be surprised if Cleveland didn't end up beating whatever the Mavs were willing to offer. In Dallas Jefferson is a high-priced backup. Cleveland, on the other hand, would be looking to sell him as their new franchise player. The walk to back up all of Gilbert's talk.

I just can't get over that he just turned 25 in January...the guy is an offensive post stud!

Underdog · 07-09-2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

If Jefferson comes in and is promised the back up roles at 4 and 5...you do NOT have enough playing time for Shawn Marion. Not as long as Caron Butler is on this team.

Can we trade Marion for a pack of smokes and 2 Playboys?

(I'm not very good at negotiating!)

sike · 07-09-2010, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Can we trade Marion for a pack of smokes and 2 Playboys?

(I'm not very good at negotiating!)

NO!!! I'll give you 1 pack of smokes and 1 Playgirl! (I'm good at negotiating)

Underdog · 07-09-2010, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

NO!!! I'll give you 1 pack of smokes and 1 Playgirl! (I'm good at negotiating)

I see your point.

Yes.

tcat075 · 07-09-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I see your point.

Yes.

Don't do it, UD! You're giving up too much! You need them to throw in 9 cents too! At least. Maybe even a dime!

grndmstr_c · 07-09-2010, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

[

I've not been the biggest fan of Jefferson as a Mav, but would've been (and still would be) perfectly willing to warm to him as the third cog in Dallas 4/5 rotation now that Wood's locked up as the defensive anchor.

On the other hand, I still think that Dallas would be better served by improving the quality/fit of their wing rotation, so even if they miss out on Jefferson I'm not giving up hope yet.

sike · 07-09-2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

\

On the other hand, I still think that Dallas would be better served by improving the quality/fit of their wing rotation, so even if they miss out on Jefferson I'm not giving up hope yet.

Give me your list of wing guys you see as potential Mavs...

jthig32 · 07-09-2010, 10:04 PM

Cleveland getting that TE is another obstacle for us to use Damp's contract. I'd personally like to see them go ahead and cash in on Jefferson so we can get back in the driver's seat (unless of course Toronto is willing to cash in their TE for a big contract as well).

Underdog · 07-09-2010, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Give me your list of wing guys you see as potential Mavs...

Iggy, Ellis, Iggy...

(although, you didn't ask me...)

sike · 07-09-2010, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Iggy, Ellis, Iggy...

(although, you didn't ask me...)

Whenever I ask a question...go ahead and assume I'm really just asking you.

(No thanks on Ellis by the way)

sike · 07-09-2010, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Cleveland getting that TE is another obstacle for us to use Damp's contract. I'd personally like to see them go ahead and cash in on Jefferson so we can get back in the driver's seat (unless of course Toronto is willing to cash in their TE for a big contract as well).

With Flynn looking good, I can't imagine they would be too rigid on holding onto Rubio...It would be amazing to get the rights to that kid.

Dirk, Haywood, Jefferson Better than Pau, Bynum, Odom? I say clearly yes.

SMC0007 · 07-09-2010, 10:30 PM

I think we might need to shelve(shelf?) the idea of Jefferson as far as Dust chip goes and I believe FO is doing the right thing in not involving him in this one. Now that I have read the above article, that they aren't as willing to use him for Jefferson, I'm almost positive that means a SG is top priority, and I like it. Jefferson doesn't exactly fit here because he is a starter and now that Haywood is locked in I don't see the point. If he weren't so damn good and wouldn't require that many minutes it would be fine( ie Gortat ).

I can't wait to see what/if they have in mind.

sike · 07-09-2010, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Now that I have read the above article, that they aren't as willing to use him for Jefferson, I'm almost positive that means a SG is top priority...I can't wait to see what/if they have in mind.

I like both of these points...I trust Donnie.

Underdog · 07-09-2010, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

(No thanks on Ellis by the way)

That's why I came back to Iggy.

(but name a better SG option at this point...)

grndmstr_c · 07-09-2010, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Give me your list of wing guys you see as potential Mavs...

Iggy's at the top of my list, and arguably the only long-contract wing who's clearly worth Damp. I'd expect the Mavs to do a little snooping around some big expiring types like J. Richardson and VC (just in case), too. There are other names (Hedo and Rip, for example) who are probably available and could help, but aren't Damp-worthy (i.e., would only be targeted with JET, Marion, Stevenson, etc.). And though he's not a wing, I'm still intrigued by the Collison/Okafor duo.

One other absurdly left-field name that I'll be watching is Kirilenko. Not that I see him as anything approaching an ideal fit on the Mavs as currently constructed, but he's an impact player (when healthy) earning a boatload of money in the last year of his contract for a team that's often rumored to be looking to shed salary. Even if Dallas isn't interested in trading for him, if he draws interest around the league (strikes me as a potentially valuable guy to have in a matchup against the Heat) there might be an opportunity for Dallas to get in on a multi-team swap.

tcat075 · 07-09-2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

With Flynn looking good, I can't imagine they would be too rigid on holding onto Rubio...It would be amazing to get the rights to that kid.

Dirk, Haywood, Jefferson Better than Pau, Bynum, Odom? I say clearly yes.

I like this point. Up to now, I have viewed having Dirk, Haywood and Jefferson as too big of a logjam. However, you are totally correct -- the reigning champs (it pains me to say that, btw) have a very similar rotation with their bigs. Its not exactly the same, and unfortunately Dirk isn't the defender Gasol is, but Haywood is probably better than Bynum and Jefferson provides some of the offense Odom does. And its not like Odom is that great of a defender anyway. The three of them might actually work, now that you point that out.

So if Jefferson doesn't come, as it is looking like, who do we grab for the backup 4/5? I suppose Brand wouldn't be too bad if we can snatch Iggy. But who else is there? (No thank you on Shaq, and don't even dare mention Bonner.)

tcat075 · 07-09-2010, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Iggy's at the top of my list, and arguably the only long-contract wing who's clearly worth Damp. I'd expect the Mavs to do a little snooping around some big expiring types like J. Richardson and VC (just in case), too. There are other names (Hedo and Rip, for example) who are probably available and could help, but aren't Damp-worthy (i.e., would only be targeted with JET, Marion, Stevenson, etc.). And though he's not a wing, I'm still intrigued by the Collison/Okafor duo.

One other absurdly left-field name that I'll be watching is Kirilenko. Not that I see him as anything approaching an ideal fit on the Mavs as currently constructed, but he's an impact player (when healthy) earning a boatload of money in the last year of his contract for a team that's often rumored to be looking to shed salary. Even if Dallas isn't interested in trading for him, if he draws interest around the league (strikes me as a potentially valuable guy to have in a matchup against the Heat) there might be an opportunity for Dallas to get in on a multi-team swap.

I would also explore options involving Carmelo, Granger, and Luol Deng, although I find all three of them to be quite unlikely.

Honestly, Iggy is really the only name that really gets my Mavs pants a-jiggling (that is realistic, anyway). If I were the Mavs, I'd think about seeing what we'd need to get Arenas, before decided that its a terrible idea. Kirilenko is an interesting name. However, isn't he just an upgraded Matrix? Not that that would be unwelcome, but either redundant if we kept Marion, or not enough to put us over the top if we keep Marion.

If I had to pick between those old guys you threw out there, I think I'd take Richardson. Maybe Hedo, because he did play well on a talented team like Orlando. But no to VC, and no to Rip, and no to Monta Ellis (though not a name you mentioned) because he's an atrocious fit.

With the scarcity on the market beyond all the big names that signed, it almost makes me wonder if Jefferson is the right guy to target. But if Iggy can be had, I'd take him over Al.

sike · 07-09-2010, 11:33 PM

I would be a little shocked if the moves the Mavs eventually make hasn't been already outlined by one of our resident geniuses...

tcat075 · 07-09-2010, 11:41 PM

Well, we (they? I'm not sure I qualify) aren't called geniuses for nothing.

tcat075 · 07-10-2010, 12:01 AM

So I'm reading on the DB boards (ugh) all about the trade exceptions and what not. Well, first off, that was the first time I have heard the rumors of the trade that's on the table, and that Donnie wanted Minnesota to take Stevenson/Carroll. So then I about how Cleveland is now involved in the Jefferson deal, and all that. So the DB board users give up and claim its over once they hear Cleveland is in the mix, because Gilbert will "way overpay" and "throw in the house" to get a star. But isn't the trade exception a one player deal...one TE for one player?

If that's the case, there is no draft picks, no other players, no nothing that can be moved for Jefferson. On the other hand, the Mavericks have pieces they can move to further entice Minnesota to bite.

Am I completely off here on the TE stuff? I would love for someone to fully explain it...I still find them rather confusing.

CadBane · 07-10-2010, 12:18 AM

I see the Bulls offered JJ a 3/19 deal and the Nets offered Morrow a mere 3/12 deal. A little disappointed to see we aren't trying to use part of the MLE on that, especially after re-signing Wood. We could really use an ACTUAL shooter. The ONLY shooter we have is the streaky, disappearing act known as Jet.

*Edit, I see the Bulls also got Korver for 3/15. I really think we should have pursued one of those three.

SMC0007 · 07-10-2010, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

One, as of this moment...

Is he the "backup 4/5" that Cuban referenced? If he can accept a role behind Dirk/Haywood, then consider me aroused (...in the pants!)

Or
Run out and get Iggy with Dust chip and you wont regret it. If they have to send Brand, well that fits the player we need, the 4/5 guy who isn't gonna cause fits not starting. I'm sure he will earn plenty of time to keep him sane and happy and yet not too much time that can keep him injured. Send back Matt Carroll, Dust +whatever else you can make work. We have picked up some lenght on contracts but we can at least use BRand as opposed to CArroll. Brand would be a nice fit in the reserve 4/5 position role,no? HE still has some game left.

This is where you think I go all crazy, but you go get the very hungry to prove himself TMAC for minimun hopefully and let he and JEt battle it out thru mini camps and practices and then let the chips fall where they may.

BGMaverick9 · 07-10-2010, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Iggy's at the top of my list, and arguably the only long-contract wing who's clearly worth Damp. I'd expect the Mavs to do a little snooping around some big expiring types like J. Richardson and VC (just in case), too. There are other names (Hedo and Rip, for example) who are probably available and could help, but aren't Damp-worthy (i.e., would only be targeted with JET, Marion, Stevenson, etc.). And though he's not a wing, I'm still intrigued by the Collison/Okafor duo.

One other absurdly left-field name that I'll be watching is Kirilenko. Not that I see him as anything approaching an ideal fit on the Mavs as currently constructed, but he's an impact player (when healthy) earning a boatload of money in the last year of his contract for a team that's often rumored to be looking to shed salary. Even if Dallas isn't interested in trading for him, if he draws interest around the league (strikes me as a potentially valuable guy to have in a matchup against the Heat) there might be an opportunity for Dallas to get in on a multi-team swap.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...eel-deal-redux
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...damps-contract

those are kind of outdated...but you might find them interesting.

If they're not going to be able to work a deal with Minnesota, it seems less likely to actually use DUST since there are massive TPEs all over the place now.

I'd really be intrigued by that NO idea with Okafor and Collison. Sure, CP3 is the main goal, but don't sell yourself short...Collison is a legit player!

mac222b · 07-10-2010, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

My fear is the Mavericks overplay their hand and lose this guy. Al Jefferson is a really, really good player who seems to have gotten a bit stagnant on a very bad team. If he's there, and the DUST chip is what it takes to get him? Then you do it IMO.

I know the sexy deal is for Chris Paul but the odds of getting him are ridiculously slim. Maybe even slimmer than our chances of getting LeBron were. We have a chip that can bring us back one of the best post players in basketball and he's smack dab in his prime.

we also would get to keep Roddy. and we'd still have Caron Butler and picks and maybe Dojo if a true 2guard came available. we'd also have possibly the deepest team in the league(Orlando is pretty deep too). though that may be a mixed blessing the way Carlisle handles rotations