General NBA watching thread 2007/2008 - Page 42 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

fluid.forty.one · 03-08-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Can you imagine if Avery did that? There'd be an insurrection around here.

If Avery had 4 rings as a coach then I'd give him more of a leash.

rabbitproof · 03-08-2008, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFanFinley

If whining works then how come Cuban and the Mavs don't get more respect?

We're the imitators. They're the originators. Remember?

You can't even spell Tim Duncan without 'whine'. Oh yeah, you can but you can't think of Tim Duncan without thinking of whine.

Underdog · 03-08-2008, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

If Avery had 4 rings as a coach then I'd give him more of a leash.

4 rings in 3 seasons??? That would be impressive!

fluid.forty.one · 03-08-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

4 rings in 3 seasons??? That would be impressive!

Heck that even strengthens my point. Avery has coached less full seasons than Pop has rings. Says a lot about why Pops is allowed to get away with stuff that Avery isn't.

on a side note- orlando is beating gs. Hopefully they lose and we win tonight because I'll feel a lot better with another game cushion.

twistaeffect2004 · 03-08-2008, 09:45 PM

Houston crushing the Hornets at the half, 59-46.

It's pretty unbelievable how they're still playing at such a high level without Yao. I think if they win this game, they'll get to 20 straight wins.

LonghornDub · 03-08-2008, 09:46 PM

It really sucks for Houston that Yao got hurt. They could make some serious noise if not for that. They're playing incredibly well.

Five-ofan · 03-08-2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

It really sucks for Houston that Yao got hurt. They could make some serious noise if not for that. They're playing incredibly well.

they are playing better without him. him and tmac just cant play well at the same time and tmac is better than him at this point. plus yao is one of the biggest defensive liabilities in the game. when mutumbo runs out of gas in a few games its gonna suck for them though.

RonMexico · 03-08-2008, 10:33 PM

^^ Deke is only playing 17 minutes a game.

MavsFanFinley · 03-08-2008, 10:43 PM

Houston beat NO and Utah is crushing Denver.

DOMINATOR · 03-08-2008, 10:50 PM

18 straight! tmac played entire game.

LonghornDub · 03-08-2008, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

they are playing better without him. him and tmac just cant play well at the same time and tmac is better than him at this point. plus yao is one of the biggest defensive liabilities in the game. when mutumbo runs out of gas in a few games its gonna suck for them though.

They may be in some sense better without Yao, but I don't think they can win a playoff series without him. Although, it does depend on who they play.

I just know that right now the Rockets are certainly not more talented than some of the teams they're beating. They're winning with superior effort. I'm not sure if that will still be the case in the playoffs, which is where Yao's talent will be missed.

Five-ofan · 03-08-2008, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

They may be in some sense better without Yao, but I don't think they can win a playoff series without him. Although, it does depend on who they play.

I just know that right now the Rockets are certainly not more talented than some of the teams they're beating. They're winning with superior effort. I'm not sure if that will still be the case in the playoffs, which is where Yao's talent will be missed.

they arent winning a series but they werent going to win one with him either. hes just such a HUGE liability on the defensive end because of how slow he is. it would have been fine 15-20 years ago but you just cant get away with it now.

LonghornDub · 03-08-2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

they arent winning a series but they werent going to win one with him either. hes just such a HUGE liability on the defensive end because of how slow he is. it would have been fine 15-20 years ago but you just cant get away with it now.

You may be right, especially considering that even when up 2-0 last year they couldn't win a series.

LonghornDub · 03-08-2008, 11:22 PM

Oh, and what in the world are they doing playing the league's most brittle 2-guard for all 48 minutes tonight?

And1 · 03-08-2008, 11:33 PM

New Orleans is kind of fake at this point.

MavsFanFinley · 03-08-2008, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Oh, and what in the world are they doing playing the league's most brittle 2-guard for all 48 minutes tonight?

I'm not sure about this one either. Only explanation I can think of is that Houston is pushing to keep homecourt?

Fidel · 03-08-2008, 11:37 PM

Houston is just an incredibly good defensive team. With Yao they were 4th in PPG allowed and 2nd in FG% allowed. Without Yao they are 2nd in both categories with only Boston being slightly better in both. Also they´ve been the top rebounding team in the league with and now also without Yao (the differential got even bigger same like their defensive stats got even better).

I think the Rockets don´t get enough credit. They could get far in the playoffs even without Yao (and yes the point can be made that they actually benefit from not having him). If you look at what´s needed to suceed in the playoffs they really have it this year. I think the question mark will be T-Mac. He needs to keep up his current level of play, he can´t get injured obviously and he has to show that he can shoulder the psycological burden of having to carry his team in the playoffs (biggest question mark IMO).

LonghornDub · 03-08-2008, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidel

Houston is just an incredibly good defensive team. With Yao they were 4th in PPG allowed and 2nd in FG% allowed. Without Yao they are 2nd in both categories with only Boston being slightly better in both. Also they´ve been the top rebounding team in the league with and now also without Yao (the differential got even bigger same like their defensive stats got even better).

I think the Rockets don´t get enough credit. They could get far in the playoffs even without Yao (and yes the point can be made that they actually benefit from not having him). If you look at what´s needed to suceed in the playoffs they really have it this year. I think the question mark will be T-Mac. He needs to keep up his current level of play, he can´t get injured obviously and he has to show that he can shoulder the psycological burden of having to carry his team in the playoffs (biggest question mark IMO).

I'm just not so sure. I think the T-Mac psychological+health factor combined with the very inexperienced roster (at least as far as the playoffs go) is going to do them in early.

Mavs fans know better than anyone how much things tighten down in the playoffs. I don't think T-Mac without Yao will be able to handle that over a 7 game series. The other guys are just too green.

LonghornDub · 03-08-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFanFinley

I'm not sure about this one either. Only explanation I can think of is that Houston is pushing to keep homecourt?

Must be it, but it's stupid to push for homecourt when it comes at the possible cost of injuring or tiring out your only remaining star.

GuerillaBlack · 03-08-2008, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

You may be right, especially considering that even when up 2-0 last year they couldn't win a series.

Like the '06 Finals?

The Lakers (19), followed by the Bucks (20), then Lakers (33) again all had big winning streaks. All won championships....

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFanFinley

I'm not sure about this one either. Only explanation I can think of is that Houston is pushing to keep homecourt?

The game was close. Everytime the Rockets were go up by 12 or so, the Hornets would cut it to 8 quick. We needed T-Mac in there.

Five-ofan · 03-08-2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack

Like the '06 Finals?

The Lakers (19), followed by the Bucks (20), then Lakers (33) again all had big winning streaks. All won championships....

The game was close. Everytime the Rockets were go up by 12 or so, the Hornets would cut it to 8 quick. We needed T-Mac in there.

or the 05 first round... you know when the rockets won 2 games on the road and lost 4 out of 5 with 3 of them being at home?

GuerillaBlack · 03-09-2008, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

or the 05 first round... you know when the rockets won 2 games on the road and lost 4 out of 5 with 3 of them being at home?

That was brutal.

I still see the Rockets winning a playoff series this year. Mutombo is getting limited minutes now to help him for the playoffs. This team is A LOT better than their '04-'05 and '06-'07 counterparts.

Five-ofan · 03-09-2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack

That was brutal.

I still see the Rockets winning a playoff series this year. Mutombo is getting limited minutes now to help him for the playoffs. This team is A LOT better than their '04-'05 and '06-'07 counterparts.

true because they have an actual nba quality pf in carl landry instead of stro or the ghost of juwan howard. that said im sorry but i dont see them winning a round. Honestly the only west team with a shot at making the playoffs i could see them beating is phoenix and im starting to think phoenix may not even make it(and they definitely wont be high enough for houston to get them.

LonghornDub · 03-09-2008, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack

Like the '06 Finals?

The Lakers (19), followed by the Bucks (20), then Lakers (33) again all had big winning streaks. All won championships....

The Rockets aren't winning a championship. Are you kidding yourself?

And oh, your '06 Finals comment cuts so deep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuerrilaBlack

The game was close. Everytime the Rockets were go up by 12 or so, the Hornets would cut it to 8 quick. We needed T-Mac in there.

Close game = play someone for 48 minutes? What other good team does that?

GuerillaBlack · 03-09-2008, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

The Rockets aren't winning a championship. Are you kidding yourself?

And oh, your '06 Finals comment cuts so deep.

I don't think they will win the championship, but will make it out of the first round.

Quote:

Close game = play someone for 48 minutes? What other good team does that?

I haven't seen someone play the entire 48 minutes, but have seen someone play just two or so minutes less than that. Not much.

LonghornDub · 03-09-2008, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack

I don't think they will win the championship, but will make it out of the first round.

Depends on who they play, but probably not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack

I haven't seen someone play the entire 48 minutes, but have seen someone play just two or so minutes less than that. Not much.

From who? What good team has played a guy for 46 minutes this year (in a non-OT game)? I can think of one--Kobe. Other than that, it just isn't done, and there's a reason for that.

Five-ofan · 03-09-2008, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Depends on who they play, but probably not.

From who? What good team has played a guy for 46 minutes this year (in a non-OT game)? I can think of one--Kobe. Other than that, it just isn't done, and there's a reason for that.

im fairly certain dirk has done it and i know lebron has and ai and marion when he was with the suns.

chumdawg · 03-09-2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Close game = play someone for 48 minutes? What other good team does that?

The Warriors occasionally do it.

DOMINATOR · 03-09-2008, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

From who? What good team has played a guy for 46 minutes this year (in a non-OT game)? I can think of one--Kobe. Other than that, it just isn't done, and there's a reason for that.

Allen Iverson has done it quite a bit in his career. i think hes done it once or twice this season.
but i agree i dont like tmac playing all 48 minutes... he is in great shape right now though. obviously adelman wouldnt have done it if tmac didnt say he could go the whole game.

GuerillaBlack · 03-09-2008, 12:34 AM

This is probably the only time T-Mac does it this season/post-season. He looked good the entire game, too, so it didn't look to affect him much.

Five-ofan · 03-09-2008, 12:36 AM

lebrons played 50 twice this year(yes it was ot but still)
AI actually played 57 in a game this year(2 ot) and yao played 52 and rafer played 50 in the same game and melo played 51

dirno2000 · 03-09-2008, 01:01 AM

Kobe only rested for about a minute and a half last Sunday.

Of course T-Mac has never been considered an iron man so it is surprising to see him go that long.

AI going 57 minutes is impressive. There are some things about his game that will make it tough for him to ever win a title but he's as good an athlete as anyone who has ever played. Every time I see him I'm amazed that he's still able to play the way he plays at 32.

Five-ofan · 03-09-2008, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Kobe only rested for about a minute and a half last Sunday.

Of course T-Mac has never been considered an iron man so it is surprising to see him go that long.

AI going 57 minutes is impressive. There are some things about his game that will make it tough for him to ever win a title but he's as good an athlete as anyone who has ever played. Every time I see him I'm amazed that he's still able to play the way he plays at 32.

yeah i know it was a different era but avg 48.5 mpg one season was one of wilts biggest accomplishments imo. that and never avg less 42.3 in any season.

LonghornDub · 03-09-2008, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

The Warriors occasionally do it.

The Dubs can do whatever the hell they want. That's part of the fun with them--free wheeling, outside the box, high-energy shenanigans. They only have about 6 or 7 good players anyway.

I just don't agree with it at all for a guy like T-Mac. It's a stupid move.

LonghornDub · 03-09-2008, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

im fairly certain dirk has done it and i know lebron has and ai and marion when he was with the suns.

Dirk hasn't played 46 minutes in a game this year. No way. The others, I'm sure you're right.

chumdawg · 03-09-2008, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

The Dubs can do whatever the hell they want. That's part of the fun with them--free wheeling, outside the box, high-energy shenanigans. They only have about 6 or 7 good players anyway.

I just don't agree with it at all for a guy like T-Mac. It's a stupid move.

Boy, the Dubs ARE fun like that, aren't they? That's what I love about them. You certainly aren't going to see a formulaic 84-80 game.

Myself, I love to see that stuff. We are watching some of the very best athletes in the world. I love it when they show off what they can do. And for that matter, I see nothing wrong with a guy like T-Mac playing fiercely heavy minutes, in an isolated game. He shouldn't do it every night, obviously. But as long as he is healthy, why not run the crap out of the guy? As I said, he is one of the elite athletes in the world.

I think a whole lot too much is made of 40 minutes versus 36, or 44 versus 40. If anything, it depends on the particular game and the particular player. For example, last night when watching Denver play it was obvious at one point that Najera just absolutely had to get out of the game. He was selling out left and right on both ends of the floor, for an extended period, and he simply could not go anymore. He was like a hockey player on a long shift. But for a lot of NBA guys, I think heavy minutes are not that taxing.

Dirkadirkastan · 03-09-2008, 03:47 AM

Link

fluid.forty.one · 03-09-2008, 04:32 AM

I'll take a NO and Denver loss... even if it comes at the hands of Houston and Utah.

Five-ofan · 03-09-2008, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I'll take a NO and Denver loss... even if it comes at the hands of Houston and Utah.

we are going to go 18-1 from here out. so none of those teams will matter.

LonghornDub · 03-09-2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Boy, the Dubs ARE fun like that, aren't they? That's what I love about them. You certainly aren't going to see a formulaic 84-80 game.

Myself, I love to see that stuff. We are watching some of the very best athletes in the world. I love it when they show off what they can do. And for that matter, I see nothing wrong with a guy like T-Mac playing fiercely heavy minutes, in an isolated game. He shouldn't do it every night, obviously. But as long as he is healthy, why not run the crap out of the guy? As I said, he is one of the elite athletes in the world.

I think a whole lot too much is made of 40 minutes versus 36, or 44 versus 40. If anything, it depends on the particular game and the particular player. For example, last night when watching Denver play it was obvious at one point that Najera just absolutely had to get out of the game. He was selling out left and right on both ends of the floor, for an extended period, and he simply could not go anymore. He was like a hockey player on a long shift. But for a lot of NBA guys, I think heavy minutes are not that taxing.

I agree, I don't think 40 minutes versus 36 is a huge deal, that's why I don't get upset when Dirk plays for 40.

I do think making that jump to a full, 48 minute game is fairly more strenuous than anything else. Now, you're absolutely right that if anyone can handle it, it's a professional athlete. And if they only do it once, yeah, no big deal really. But with T-Mac at least, I'd be hesitant to do it at all. Every minute he's on the court, he's at risk of hurting something. And playing that long without much rest (except halftime) multiplies that risk a bit.

Hockey minutes are certainly more taxing. Same deal with soccer, if you're a fan. That's one of the reasons why soccer is such an amazing sport--those guys play 90 minutes without stopping AT ALL (except halftime), usually with only 3-5 subs total for each team, and a soccer field is, obviously, a much bigger area to be zooming around on.

Compared to the NHL and soccer, the NBA is kind of a cakewalk when it comes to endurance. But still, I'm not sure if I'd want to subject T-Mac to it.