2017 NBA Draft

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Agree with all of this. Instead of waiting for 3-4 years for Frank to resemble anything approaching an NBA player offensively, why wouldn't we take Monk or DSJ both of whom can come in and potentially be (RC willing) a 12-15ppg scorer right out the gate for a team that needs scoring and shot creation.

Almost strictly because this: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...antetgi01.html

Seen as a project that starts slow but with the intelligence, work ethic, size and athleticism he appears to be a superstar...or right on the cusp.

I'm not saying I disagree with anyone about the recent doubts about Frank, just keeping perspective on what a few years from now COULD look like.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mac222b

People are seriously underrating Rubio btw

37%

[saclare]

Originally Posted by sefant77

hello new NBA. If you cant shoot or drive, you are borderline useless. Even with nice defense or passing.

And if the Celtics pick Tatum the Suns are going to get a shitload of calls for #4 within seconds

Yea but I would think it would take a very attractive return. If I'm the Suns, I do a happy dance I just got Josh Jackson and filled a hole. TJ Warren to the bench as a 6th man. Bledsoe/Booker/Jackson/Bender/Chandler with guys like Knight, Warren, and Len off the bench.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by saclare

Bledsoe/Booker/Jackson/Bender/Chandler with guys like Knight, Warren, and Len off the bench.

Can't believe you left out maybe the most important one....Chriss.

[sefant77]

Yeah...if Jackson slips to #4 its pretty much perfect for the suns. Fit and BPA

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Underdog

37%

Just for you.

And yes... I'm fond of having both my knees intact, no need to thank me by changing that fact.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

If Rubio has enough scorers around him, then it MIGHT work. But Minny had pretty good offense. This video tells a sad tale of what happens when you can't shoot OR finish around the rim. In fact, his finishing in the paint is probably worse than his shooting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N876-KBigo

[Twenty4sevenn]

For the record, I'm 100% on board with swapping picks with the T-Wolves and Rubio for Mathews. Rubio is coming off of his best season of his career and played like a monster after the all-star break. I love Mathews for his toughness and attitude, but we his contract is holding us back.

[mac222b]

I know all of that about Rubio. But this isnt vintage Wes we'd be trading for him. Rubio had a better overall shooting % last season at 40%. Wes hasnt cracked 40% from the field in either season he's been here or been above 36% from 3. And Rubio is just 26 still. Wes is certainly declining while its possible Rubio is still improving. And how many buckets a game would Rubios passing mean for guys like Dirk and Noel? Maybe even Barnes. Yohi couldnt make a simple post entry pass most of the time. Rubio is one of the best passers in the league. Wes is probably one of the worst passers/ballhandlers in the league. Rubio's even a better rebounder than Wes statistically (who played a lot at SF). Their contracts run the same length only Rubio makes 4m less per. Im not convinced its even on the table in the iteration we've heard about but if so, even with all of his warts, Rubio is a better player/asset than Wes.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Now that draft day is here, I'm starting to inch away from Frank like some around here. I just think picking an almost totally unproven player in such an important draft is too risky. And it's a bit different than Giannis because he was picked 15th in a weaker draft. You could take that risk at that pick. Taking a similar risk at 9 makes me nervous.

I really haven't read anything that says Frank has superstar or even tier 2 star potential. Scouts love the kid, but star potential is hard to find. I read 3 and D or George Hill, but not much outside of that. Problem is that you just are shooting in the dark with what his potential actually is. His biggest upside is his potential for elite defense which is exactly why he will likely be lottery bound.

My bottom line though is that fact that there is little to no evidence that Frank is more talented than a Monk or DSJ or even Mitchell. Physical tools are great, but talent is just as good. We all get caught up in wingspan length when I'd rather just have a guy who can play.

People keep bringing up Giannis and Schroder......those moves had far less risk. I'm not talking a overseas guy that early. Even if he does pan out I won't regret it. There's some value there at #9. If he's the last of the point guards there.....I probably think about it. But some mocks have Monk and Dennis Smith being there.....

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Twenty4sevenn

For the record, I'm 100% on board with swapping picks with the T-Wolves and Rubio for Mathews. Rubio is coming off of his best season of his career and played like a monster after the all-star break. I love Mathews for his toughness and attitude, but we his contract is holding us back.

I don't understand why the T-Wolves would do the deal. Mavs have to love that deal. I guess the plan is to draft a point guard and they may feel like Rubio disrupts that.....but that deal allows for them to not have to settle for drafting a point guard.

[EricaLubarsky]

6 hours

[tap2390]

Recently took a look at Dante Exum's and Emmanuel Mudiay's stats.

Dennis Smith > Malik Monk > Frank Ntilikina

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Twenty4sevenn

For the record, I'm 100% on board with swapping picks with the T-Wolves and Rubio for Mathews. Rubio is coming off of his best season of his career and played like a monster after the all-star break. I love Mathews for his toughness and attitude, but we his contract is holding us back.

Well, perhaps it was monster compared to his previous play.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Recently took a look at Dante Exum's and Emmanuel Mudiay's stats.

Dennis Smith > Malik Monk > Frank Ntilikina

Yes, Exum is an excellent comparison to Frank and what happens when the player doesn't work out. They are very similar players. Exum still has some time, but so far, bust.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Well, perhaps it was monster compared to his previous play.

Sadly it's also monster compared to Wes.

After ASB-
Rubio - 16.0ppg/4.6rebs/10.5ast on 42%fg and 35%3pt 1.54 steals
Wes - 8.7ppg/3.5rebs/3.9ast on 33%fg and 29%3pt 0.85 steals
Seth - 16.2ppg/2.5rebs/2.6ast on 51%fg and 45%3pt 1.0 steals

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/p...alse/split/141

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Sadly it's also monster compared to Wes.

After ASB-
Rubio - 16.0ppg/4.6rebs/10.5ast on 42%fg and 35%3pt 1.54 steals
Wes - 8.7ppg/3.5rebs/3.9ast on 33%fg and 29%3pt 0.85 steals
Seth - 16.2ppg/2.5rebs/2.6ast on 51%fg and 45%3pt 1.0 steals

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/p...alse/split/141

These stats are fairly irrelevant when it comes to the expectations of Rubio... I mean, if he was a 2nd or 3rd year player I'd say he was turning a corner, but he's been in the league for 6 seasons now -- he is what he is (which is a horrible shooter with a highly-punchable face).

And Dallas had a ton of lineup changes after the ASB, so I wouldn't read too much into Wesley's stats either.

[Twenty4sevenn]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Sadly it's also monster compared to Wes.

After ASB-
Rubio - 16.0ppg/4.6rebs/10.5ast on 42%fg and 35%3pt 1.54 steals
Wes - 8.7ppg/3.5rebs/3.9ast on 33%fg and 29%3pt 0.85 steals
Seth - 16.2ppg/2.5rebs/2.6ast on 51%fg and 45%3pt 1.0 steals

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/p...alse/split/141

Exactly. If we drafted a PG that put up 16 and 10 on 35% from three, we would all be ecstatic.

I know the last few months of this season are not the norm for Rubio, but maybe something clicked in him once he found out the Wolves were seriously trying to move him.

And, I mean, we did pick up Curry based on his post All-Star game numbers from the previous year and it worked. I know it was less of a gamble with him, but still.

IF our starting line-up for this season is:

Rubio
Curry
Barnes
Isaac
Noel

I'd be slightly aroused.

And Dirk as 6th man......oooo baby

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Almost strictly because this: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...antetgi01.html

Seen as a project that starts slow but with the intelligence, work ethic, size and athleticism he appears to be a superstar...or right on the cusp.

I'm not saying I disagree with anyone about the recent doubts about Frank, just keeping perspective on what a few years from now COULD look like.

I just don't see the correlation between the two. He's a 6'5 point guard......Giannis is a 6'11 FREAK. If the prayer is HOPING he becomes Giannis.....he's not the right pick at #9.

[Underdog]

Frank is far more likely to be the next Roddy than the next Giannis.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Underdog

These stats are fairly irrelevant when it comes to the expectations of Rubio... I mean, if he was a 2nd or 3rd year player I'd say he was turning a corner, but he's been in the league for 6 seasons now -- he is what he is (which is a horrible shooter with a highly-punchable face).

And Dallas had a ton of lineup changes after the ASB, so I wouldn't read too much into Wesley's stats either.

I wouldn't say "horrible". He's gotten a lot better. Rubio also had to play on a terrible offense with youth on it and a lot of guys like Towns and Wiggins who need the ball in their hands in order to be successful.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Frank is far more likely to be the next Roddy than the next Giannis.

I agree. I'm not even sure why Giannis' name is even being brought up with Frank's. I've seen a lot of people compare him to Dante Exum and that's a much better comparison.

Its hard to be ok with the Giannis pick knowing where he was selected. I'm not going to lose sleep on Frank if he's taken in the lottery. I'm hoping the Knicks make the decision for us.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I just don't see the correlation between the two. He's a 6'5 point guard......Giannis is a 6'11 FREAK. If the prayer is HOPING he becomes Giannis.....he's not the right pick at #9.

He's a 6'5" PG with a 7'+ wingspan.

Giannis is a freak NOW. But look at his progression, he took time and maybe only a handful of people thought he would do anything close to what he is.

I'm not advocating this, just keeping some perspective of how a project with size and length can progress if it works out. I agree with hoping on a wild card given the state of our team and history in the draft, that at 9 he isn't the best pick...if there is better option available.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Sadly it's also monster compared to Wes.

After ASB-
Rubio - 16.0ppg/4.6rebs/10.5ast on 42%fg and 35%3pt 1.54 steals
Wes - 8.7ppg/3.5rebs/3.9ast on 33%fg and 29%3pt 0.85 steals
Seth - 16.2ppg/2.5rebs/2.6ast on 51%fg and 45%3pt 1.0 steals

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/p...alse/split/141

Yea, I have been off the Wes wagon for a long time now. I'd rather take what we get with Seth every night.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Frank is far more likely to be the next Roddy than the next Giannis.

Which I'm fine that with minus the fact that Roddy was picked in the mid 20s. That's the real stickler with Frank. It's not that he won't eventually be a good player, it's that he is stuck in the middle of the big 9 in a very good draft.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

He's a 6'5" PG with a 7'+ wingspan.

Giannis is a freak NOW. But look at his progression, he took time and maybe only a handful of people thought he would do anything close to what he is.

I'm not advocating this, just keeping some perspective of how a project with size and length can progress if it works out. I agree with hoping on a wild card given the state of our team and history in the draft, that at 9 he isn't the best pick...if there is better option available.

This argument is like the people who use Tom Brady as a reason why you shouldn't draft a QB until later on. Tom Brady is the exception to the rule.

You can find plenty more examples of guys like Frank flopping in the league than you can find of them succeeding in this league.

Sometimes you have to take risks in this league. I get it. Giannis would've been a far better risk. A 6'11 guy with handles and speed with a all around game aside from his shooting. And even then that was the 16th overall pick.

You're telling Monk and Smith are there who have potential and can come right in and contribute aren't better risks to take?

What is Frank's ceiling here?

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Which I'm fine that with minus the fact that Roddy was picked in the mid 20s. That's the real stickler with Frank. It's not that he won't eventually be a good player, it's that he is stuck in the middle of the big 9 in a very good draft.

That's my stance as well......if guys want to bring up Giannis or Roddy or Schroeder....fair enough. But like you said, Roddy was a risk late in the 1st round if I'm not mistaken. For you to take Frank with the 9th overall pick means you possibly passed up a very good prospect.

I'm thinking Smith Jr or Monk....but it seems in order for one or both of those guys to fall to us.....its going to take for someone to foolishly take Frank before us.

[Dtownsfinest]

To those fans of Monk......if he was 6'6 or 6'7 where do you guys think he falls in this draft?

[Twenty4sevenn]

Y'all aren't gonna want to hear this, but Dennis Smith reminds me of Dominique Jones

[Underdog]

If the draft goes 100% as projected with Fultz-Ball-Tatum-Jackson-Fox-Isaac-Monk-Smith coming off the board then, sure, I'm okay with Frank's upside over the higher floor of Markannen/Collins/Mitchell/Kennard... But if any of those top picks fall to us, I'd happily take any of them over Frank.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

This argument is like the people who use Tom Brady as a reason why you shouldn't draft a QB until later on. Tom Brady is the exception to the rule.

You can find plenty more examples of guys like Frank flopping in the league than you can find of them succeeding in this league.

Sometimes you have to take risks in this league. I get it. Giannis would've been a far better risk. A 6'11 guy with handles and speed with a all around game aside from his shooting. And even then that was the 16th overall pick.

You're telling Monk and Smith are there who have potential and can come right in and contribute aren't better risks to take?

What is Frank's ceiling here?

I think your lacking a frame of reference, man. I only stated in 2 seperate posts that I wasn't advocating it. Just a friendly reminder of why he's projected high for a reason and stated the reason. So No, as I mentioned several times, I'm not telling you that the best option is to take him with Monk and Smith avail.

He was drafted 15th not 16th.

I really have no idea what his cieling is, I tend to agree with UD that I see him becoming more Roddyish than a superstar.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

To those fans of Monk......if he was 6'6 or 6'7 where do you guys think he falls in this draft?

If his wingspan grew with his height and was 6'7+ also? Top 5 no question to me. I think right now he's down because he could be a guy off the bench. If he has position flex and defensive versatility like a Klay Thompson and is the best shooter? He's top 5 in today's NBA for sure IMO if he was 6'6-6'7.

[SMC0007]

What does Monk have that stands out over Seth, aside from age?

[Fragism]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

What does Monk have that stands out over Seth, aside from age?

Athletically he blows Seth out of the water and it's not even close. Monk can be a slasher (which we don't really have currently) while Seth is more of a crafty shooter.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Can't believe you left out maybe the most important one....Chriss.

Yep, whoops! Solid team building there.

[saclare]

With regards to the trade idea with Minnesota: would you rather have Rubio/Isaac/$4mm cap or would you rather DSJ/Matthews? I really think that's what it comes down to. Monk would be the consolation prize, and a good one at that, if we stay at 9. I firmly believe that New York goes with Frank at 8, if they stay there.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by saclare

With regards to the trade idea with Minnesota: would you rather have Rubio/Isaac/$4mm cap or would you rather DSJ/Matthews? I really think that's what it comes down to. Monk would be the consolation prize, and a good one at that, if we stay at 9. I firmly believe that New York goes with Frank at 8, if they stay there.

That's tough because DSJ and Isaac are my 2 favorite players this draft. I think I'd go Rubio and Isaac. Isaac has the potential to be special.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Fragism

Athletically he blows Seth out of the water and it's not even close. Monk can be a slasher (which we don't really have currently) while Seth is more of a crafty shooter.

Thx. I didn't follow them too much other than nat televised games. I'm just a little tired of watching 6'3" SG tweeners that are undersized as SG defensively and not good enough at running the team to lock in at PG. So, I'm cautious of using that 9 pick on someone that doesn't bring something a lot different than what we have now unless he is going to come in and immediately play someone else out of minutes.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Thx. I didn't follow them too much other than nat televised games. I'm just a little tired of watching 6'3" SG tweeners that are undersized as SG defensively and not good enough at running the team to lock in at PG. So, I'm cautious of using that 9 pick on someone that doesn't bring something a lot different than what we have now unless he is going to come in and immediately play someone else out of minutes.

Defensively, Monk has quick lateral movement that makes him well-suited to chase around waterbug guards on the perimeter... So you can't really have him defend bigger shooting guards, but he could pester most point guards (and smaller tweeners) in the league.

[rimrocker]

I'm sorry but my guy is Monk.

There is something about a decent NC State team that couldn't get to the tourney that bothers me about DSJ (not that it was all his fault). I have to question his ability to make players better although his assist stats were ok. There are also injury concerns...especially for someone with his style of play. And I'm not sure if he is a RC type player.

Isaac would be tough to pass up but players without passion rarely are competitive and often don't rise to the top.

And I share the same concerns with many others about Ntilikina who is simply too raw prbably wouldn't get a good opportunity with RC and our current situation.

I could live with Rubio/Isaac if it means moving Wes but I don't think people who slam Wes for being a black hole on offense are going to like watching Rubio in our system.