2019 Mavs Free Agency

[EricaLubarsky]

I leave this site for a couple of hours and we go from looking at two mid-level FAs or maybe even a third star to coming up empty and the sky is falling

Remind me never to leave again

[rimrocker]

What is the max we could pay Horford on a 2 year deal?
Any chance he would sign a 2 year deal with us?

Never heard why he opted out of his contract so I'm wondering if he has an issue with the organization or if it is all money related.

Horford on a 4 year deal makes absolutely no sense for us and could set us back.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

What is the max we could pay Horford on a 2 year deal?
Any chance he would sign a 2 year deal with us?

Never heard why he opted out of his contract so I'm wondering if he has an issue with the organization or if it is all money related.

Horford on a 4 year deal makes absolutely no sense for us and could set us back.

He turned down a $30m option and the rumor is that he’s looking for a 4/112 contract... We could throw maybe 2/60 at him (not that we would), but at his age he wants the guaranteed years.

[Underdog]

@townbrad: Free agent update: @patbev21 does in fact plan to meet with Mavs, among other suitors, but time/place has not been scheduled.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

What is the max we could pay Horford on a 2 year deal?
Any chance he would sign a 2 year deal with us?

Never heard why he opted out of his contract so I'm wondering if he has an issue with the organization or if it is all money related.

Horford on a 4 year deal makes absolutely no sense for us and could set us back.

Honestly think a 2+1 might work. I may be really wrong, though and it 100% depends on other teams being desperate enough to offer him the big bucks in years 3/4 as he ages. He's already earned 140+ million, but rather than playing one more season and potentially getting injured, he's opted to look for one more contract that pays a little (or a lot) more. I'm betting that he doesn't opt out of 1 year/30 million to get paid even less. He's probably eyeing a multi-year deal above well above that 30 number. How much over 30 depends on the other teams willing to bid.

Celtics lockerroom sounded like a nightmare with Kyrie too, but I'd stil bet that he opted out to get that last paycheck.

Maybe he'd take a discount, but honestly heard a good quote on Twitter: everyone wants NbA players to walk away from 5-10million a year, when most of us would leave our job for 5k. I doubt he leaves money on the table, move his life and family across the country just to play two seasons.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

He turned down a $30m option and the rumor is that he’s looking for a 4/112 contract... We could throw maybe 2/60 at him (not that we would), but at his age he wants the guaranteed years.

Yeah, I guess it will depend on the market and it would make sense for him to test it with all of the crazy money that will be thrown around.

I just can't see Donnie and Mark being that stupid and desperate to commit to 4/112, or anything close to that when we have an enormous window with 20 and 23 year old budding stars to build around.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Yeah, I guess it will depend on the market and it would make sense for him to test it with all of the crazy money that will be thrown around.

I just can't see Donnie and Mark being that stupid and desperate to commit to 4/112, or anything close to that when we have an enormous window with 20 and 23 year old budding stars to build around.

Welcome to the conversation and THANK YOU!! That's what I've been sayin'...

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Welcome to the conversation and THANK YOU!! That's what I've been sayin'...

People are bored. Period.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Welcome to the conversation and THANK YOU!! That's what I've been sayin'...

I'd much rather throw crazy money at Brogdon and see if it sticks than sign Horford to that ridiculous amount.

Horford at 33 is the type of guy you sign when you are a serious contender and missing one piece. We are a lotto team in need of 3 starters to go with our extremely young duo and Horford would make us barely a PO team for the next two or three years with not much of an opportunity for an upside as a team. His contract would limit our opportunities to acquire the pieces to improve the team going forward while he ages.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Underdog

He turned down a $30m option and the rumor is that he’s looking for a 4/112 contract... We could throw maybe 2/60 at him (not that we would), but at his age he wants the guaranteed years.

4/60 then

[AO41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

"Some posters here" is what I thought was the case. Regardless of how awesome this board is, FO isn't scrolling the pages to find what the people want.

I'm almost shocked that a few people would pay the absolutely ridiculous rumored contract Horford wants. Some of the knee jerk reactions the fans seem to have is due to the swing and miss we have had in free agency...but not because we haven't tried. You can't make f.a. come here so we take the alternate route via trades. I have faith they will attempt to put the best team together possible for now but there is a reason young guys don't often run the show. Experience and patience are big factors.

I think Al would be a great fit here but even I am very hesitant on a 4 yr 112 contract and would kooky to make that a 3 year. I understand not rushing either but as I mentioned if you look at some posts it’s “..let’s wait becaus eLuka is young and so on”. But to me Luka is so good not...why would we wait and waste even a year of this? So all I am saying is that I strongly believe that with Luka and KP we can be very good and the sooner we add other good pieces the sooner we will be contenders. Let’s atart now but do it in a smart way.

[saclare]

Brogdon, Walker, Beverley/Dedmon, Vucevic - in that order for me. No to Horford for that amount of money AND years.

I think Brogdon fits the young core and you're betting to his upside just a little, but that's what it will take for the Bucks not to match. 3rd star potential for sure with a bonus to the defensive end, too.

Walker is a bonafide 3rd star. Adding him would be a massive offensive upgrade as defense would still lag from the guard position. Still think he would fit temendously well.

Beverley/Dedmon provide a solid addition to the help the Mavs rebounding, shooting, and defense. Both can and have thrived off ball and could be excellent additions around Luka/KP with possible room for a 3rd mid-to-low tier FA.

Vucevic would be a boost next to KP and provide some minutes as KP eases back in, insurance in the worst case scenario. Vuvevic is another DAJ from a rebounding and defense sense but with spacing and potential for more outside shots playing with Luka.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Welcome to the conversation and THANK YOU!! That's what I've been sayin'...

And AGAIN....what I am saying just because we have a a huge window doesn’t mean we should wait to start winning. I just don’t see that as being an argument. IMO it’s even more reason to try NOW and as I said if in 3 years we haven’t won’t a title...we reload around Luka and KP with different available pieces for 3-4 years and EVEN of that doesn’t work we get probably 2 more tries because Luka will still be under 30.

This whole we have a huge window makes it seem like we are going to waste a few years of Luka and KP to get some magical pieces when in reality nothing is guaranteed and again because of that I would rather say we tried everything we could to win and didn’t wait because we THOUGHT we had a huge window.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by AO41

And AGAIN....what I am saying just because we have a a huge window doesn’t mean we should wait to start winning. I just don’t see that as being an argument. IMO it’s even more reason to try NOW and as I said if in 3 years we haven’t won’t a title...we reload around Luka and KP with different available pieces for 3-4 years and EVEN of that doesn’t work we get probably 2 more tries because Luka will still be under 30.

This whole we have a huge window makes it seem like we are going to waste a few years of Luka and KP to get some magical pieces when in reality nothing is guaranteed and again because of that I would rather say we tried everything we could to win and didn’t wait because we THOUGHT we had a huge window.

I'm not going to repeat myself...

Originally Posted by Underdog

I don't want to wait, I just don't want to go to the playoffs this year, then miss the playoffs the next three years because we maxed out a 33 year old big whose game fell off a cliff... We don't need to "win now" -- we need to create a culture of sustained winning over several years. ... I'd rather see if something better comes along than shoot ourselves in the foot. Saddling your middling team with bad contracts is how franchise players are lost.

And...

Originally Posted by Underdog

But how does 2021-23 look? Because you're passing on those FA classes too... And it's only gonna be worse each year that Horford's game declines -- he's more likely to be the reason that future FAs pass on Dallas than a guy who puts us into contention for the next 4 years.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I'd much rather throw crazy money at Brogdon and see if it sticks than sign Horford to that ridiculous amount.

Horford at 33 is the type of guy you sign when you are a serious contender and missing one piece. We are a lotto team in need of 3 starters to go with our extremely young duo and Horford would make us barely a PO team for the next two or three years with not much of an opportunity for an upside as a team. His contract would limit our opportunities to acquire the pieces to improve the team going forward while he ages.

I would lover to get Brogdon and he has been my number one choice but will be extremely m hrs to get. I live Vucevic as well. I am all for doing it smart but getting 2 really good pieces in here next to Luka and KP.

I think

Brogdon
?
Luka
KP
Vuc

Makes us a very solid playoff team unless for some reason Brogdon regresses, which I don’t see happening.

I think

Kemba ( I prefer Brogdon for age and overall fit)
?
Luka
KP
Hortfod ( 3 year deal)

...makes us a contender next year because of the GS situation and possibly next 3 years assuming everyone stay healthy.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'm not going to repeat myself...



And...

We could give out contracts to very solid players that don’t make us pass up free agency 21-23 OR if you can get someone like Brogdon who is young and would fit for years.

Who do you have in mind 21-23 and what do you plan on doing until then ?

[EricaLubarsky]

This discussion gives me a headache

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by AO41

We could give out contracts to very solid players that don’t make us pass up free agency 21-23 OR if you can get someone like Brogdon who is young and would fit for years.

Wait, do you think I’m arguing against making ANY moves this summer to keep the powder dry for 2021?? Because I’m not, I’m only arguing against giving 33 year old Al Horford a fat, 4 year contract. I’d rather do nothing than do that.

Brogdon is actually my top choice behind Kawhi (who isn’t coming here), and maybe Kemba (since he’ll retain trade value even if the fit doesn’t work)... I like him enough to give him an offer sheet that will make the Bucks sweat. Brogdon is the perfect combination of age, skill set, efficiency, potential, and overall fit with Luka/KP.

[j0Shi]

Looks like the most likely scenario is Tobias Harris. He'll eat up all our cap and I'd be ok with it unless we could get Beverly + another "overqualified" starting wing in the 12M+ range. Issue is, those are highly coveted and will start at 15-17M imho. So fitting two in our cap will be a challenge.

[FreshJive]

Mavs should try for the playoffs until Luka is no longer a Mav. You can't plan further out than 2-3 years in this climate. Luka is already red to go like Wanda.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'll take dry powder over Erick Dampier 2.0, thanks... Horford is gonna be 37 by the time his contract expires, and even at 33 he's due for regression. Let someone else take that risk.

Also, we already made a significant move to keep Doncic in a Mavs uniform -- Kristaps Porzingis... It's not like we're coming back with the same roster as last year. We nabbed a young All-Star in Luka's rookie season, which is better than Dirk ever got in his 20 years here.

You're not going to get a strong argument out of me against waiting a year if necessary.. My point is that I don't think the fan base will be all that receptive..will see it as the Mavs fumbling along in a similar manner as they did after the championship.. (even though they did just add KP).

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

You're not going to get a strong argument out of me against waiting a year if necessary.. My point is that I don't think the fan base will be all that receptive..will see it as the Mavs fumbling along in a similar manner as they did after the championship.. (even though they did just add KP).

Big difference between now and the championship.
We were one of the top tier teams with a mature roster when Cuban tore it down and the fans had a hard time dealing with that decision. Dirk was our lone star and he was 32.

I think fans realize we have two very young budding stars with superstar potential and know that the West is simply brutal right now. There are always those impatient fans that will always have "win-now" expectations but my guess is the majority of the fan base knows it will take time to construct a championship caliber team.
Horford simply doesn't fit the time table for a healthy core construction. He might fit well in terms of short-term chemistry but not well for in a long-term strategy.

He might raise our ceiling but he will severely limit as well.

I think Mavs should focus on more reasonable FAs.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I think some are pointing the arrows at the wrong people. Fans can want or not want whatever they like, but the FO has made clear indications that they want to win NOW. The only question is whether they will mortgage future cap space on tier 2 players or not. Not sure they need to, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Looks like the most likely scenario is Tobias Harris. He'll eat up all our cap and I'd be ok with it unless we could get Beverly + another "overqualified" starting wing in the 12M+ range. Issue is, those are highly coveted and will start at 15-17M imho. So fitting two in our cap will be a challenge.

I forgot Harris in my list. I'd fit him in at the same tier as Beverley/Dedmon possibly ahead of that duo, definitely ahead of Vucevic.

Can someone remind me how Harris' defense rates out?

[SMC0007]

This "Win Now" topic makes me picture a 13yr old sitting in front of the TV celebrating a championship on NBA2k with chicky nugget grease on the controller, complaining about why the real life FO can't just do it like that and just wants to wait to win.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

This "Win Now" topic makes me picture a 13yr old sitting in front of the TV celebrating a championship on NBA2k with chicky nugget grease on the controller, complaining about why the real life FO can't just do it like that and just wants to wait to win.

Not sure if you're referring to my post, but I made a pretty clear distinction that it would be the FO sitting on front of that TV with such ideas of grandeur. Not like the fans control what the FO does.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Not sure if you're referring to my post, but I made a pretty clear distinction that it would be the FO sitting on front of that TV with such ideas of grandeur. Not like the fans control what the FO does.

No, I actually said the same thing.

Originally Posted by SMC0007

"Some posters here" is what I thought was the case. Regardless of how awesome this board is, FO isn't scrolling the pages to find what the people want.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by saclare

I forgot Harris in my list. I'd fit him in at the same tier as Beverley/Dedmon possibly ahead of that duo, definitely ahead of Vucevic.

Can someone remind me how Harris' defense rates out?

I cant but i can remind you that the Sixers completly overpaid for his birdrights and are going to throw a 5y deal at him to keep him so they dont look incredible stupid with more assets thrown away

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

This "Win Now" topic makes me picture a 13yr old sitting in front of the TV celebrating a championship on NBA2k with chicky nugget grease on the controller, complaining about why the real life FO can't just do it like that and just wants to wait to win.

My apologies if I offended you in any way but my response was to Murphy3's comment about how the fan base won't be receptive if we wait another year.
I think it was taken out of context as I don't perceive fans that want to win now as spoiled children. I want to win as much as anyone next season but not at the expense of sabotaging our future.

I'm all for signing a big contract for the right person but I'd definitely rather wait a year for the right person than get caught in a horrible trap by signing the wrong one. I think Horford at 4/112 would be a horrible one in the long run.

FAs will come at a premium this year and teams will get caught vastly overpaying the wrong players. I just hope we don't become one of them.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

This "Win Now" topic makes me picture a 13yr old sitting in front of the TV celebrating a championship on NBA2k with chicky nugget grease on the controller, complaining about why the real life FO can't just do it like that and just wants to wait to win.

How so?

How is the "win next year" any better than those saying "win now"? We are all stating our thoughts and as you said ultimately thats all it is because the FO will do what they believe to be the right thing. I am all for balance and def. dont want the team to get into a bad situation with older player (thats why I prefer Brogdon).

At the same time though, if we dont start winning who is to say that FAs will want to come next year or the year after that and even if we do start winning, they may not based on our history (although I believe Luka changes a lot of things).

I think we all agree that 4/112 for Al is too much and even I wouldn't want that. Would we feel the same about 3/85 or can we get Vucevic or another good younger center who could have a similar impact for similar price?

Heck even the Warriors reload every few years...they won once and then went and got Durant. 3 years in, they will probably be looking to reload again (maybe not their choice but still) after winning 2 more.

There are no great FAs next year according to most reports ( I haven't looked at the list). So lets say we dont do much this year and get some guys like Dedmond and Pat Bev. Those are good acquisitions but barely make us a playoff team if that and so next year who would we get to push us into the playoffs or contention? If there are no good options that means that we wont be good next year and since there are no good FAs next year, we probably wont be much better the year after.

I feel like thats 2 wasted years and I would bet the FO feels that way too. But if we can work some magic with the contracts (no 4/112) this summer, we could be contenders for the next 2-3 years.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

My apologies if I offended you in any way but my response was to Murphy3's comment about how the fan base won't be receptive if we wait another year.
I think it was taken out of context as I don't perceive fans that want to win now as spoiled children. I want to win as much as anyone next season but not at the expense of sabotaging our future.

I'm all for signing a big contract for the right person but I'd definitely rather wait a year for the right person than get caught in a horrible trap by signing the wrong one. I think Horford at 4/112 would be a horrible one in the long run.

FAs will come at a premium this year and teams will get caught vastly overpaying the wrong players. I just hope we don't become one of them.

My comment had nothing to do with your post either. I pretty much agree with the take.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by AO41

How so?

How is the "win next year" any better than those saying "win now"? We are all stating our thoughts and as you said ultimately thats all it is because the FO will do what they believe to be the right thing. I am all for balance and def. dont want the team to get into a bad situation with older player (thats why I prefer Brogdon).

At the same time though, if we dont start winning who is to say that FAs will want to come next year or the year after that and even if we do start winning, they may not based on our history (although I believe Luka changes a lot of things).

I think we all agree that 4/112 for Al is too much and even I wouldn't want that. Would we feel the same about 3/85 or can we get Vucevic or another good younger center who could have a similar impact for similar price?

Heck even the Warriors reload every few years...they won once and then went and got Durant. 3 years in, they will probably be looking to reload again (maybe not their choice but still) after winning 2 more.

There are no great FAs next year according to most reports ( I haven't looked at the list). So lets say we dont do much this year and get some guys like Dedmond and Pat Bev. Those are good acquisitions but barely make us a playoff team if that and so next year who would we get to push us into the playoffs or contention? If there are no good options that means that we wont be good next year and since there are no good FAs next year, we probably wont be much better the year after.

I feel like thats 2 wasted years and I would bet the FO feels that way too. But if we can work some magic with the contracts (no 4/112) this summer, we could be contenders for the next 2-3 years.

I dont feel like multi-quoting all of it. Stating our thoughts is one thing but over and over again with dont waste Luka and kp window. Then a cpl people basically suggest tempering the enthusiasm in bad fit or bad deals and you come right back over the top with another explanation of the same thing you were originally saying. I enjoy the passion but maybe you could spend another minute or two reading their responses. Just seems like a bit of confusion and circles when I think we are all closer to the same page on the FA.

[Underdog]

Mavericks free agency update: Patrick Beverley very much in play; why Nikola Vucevic is not
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dal...la-vucevic-not

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Mavericks free agency update: Patrick Beverley very much in play; why Nikola Vucevic is not
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dal...la-vucevic-not

Still don't get being interested Horford but not Vucevic.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by AO41

How so?

How is the "win next year" any better than those saying "win now"? We are all stating our thoughts and as you said ultimately thats all it is because the FO will do what they believe to be the right thing. I am all for balance and def. dont want the team to get into a bad situation with older player (thats why I prefer Brogdon).

At the same time though, if we dont start winning who is to say that FAs will want to come next year or the year after that and even if we do start winning, they may not based on our history (although I believe Luka changes a lot of things).

We havent played a single game with Luka and KP together. They are going to have significant success compared to last year on just that alone. Imo the free agents aside from kd, Kawhi are only on paper fits. Even if free agency doesnt pan out how we hope, the FO is pretty good at trades.

I think we all agree that 4/112 for Al is too much and even I wouldn't want that. Would we feel the same about 3/85 or can we get Vucevic or another good younger center who could have a similar impact for similar price?

I agree with UD about AL.. hes a last piece for a team who needs him to go over the top and facing facts, we are not there. I'm totally fine with not having him on the books if somehow we end up a contender this year.

Heck even the Warriors reload every few years...they won once and then went and got Durant. 3 years in, they will probably be looking to reload again (maybe not their choice but still) after winning 2 more.

There are no great FAs next year according to most reports ( I haven't looked at the list). So lets say we dont do much this year and get some guys like Dedmond and Pat Bev. Those are good acquisitions but barely make us a playoff team if that and so next year who would we get to push us into the playoffs or contention? If there are no good options that means that we wont be good next year and since there are no good FAs next year, we probably wont be much better the year after.

I feel like thats 2 wasted years and I would bet the FO feels that way too. But if we can work some magic with the contracts (no 4/112) this summer, we could be contenders for the next 2-3 years.

It's could also be wasted time signing a declining and possible injured Horford to big money and it not panning out. Who is going to jump on that grenade to free us up? It seems obvious that he wants money and years, at his age we just aren't a fit

.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I dont feel like multi-quoting all of it. Stating our thoughts is one thing but over and over again with dont waste Luka and kp window. Then a cpl people basically suggest tempering the enthusiasm in bad fit or bad deals and you come right back over the top with another explanation of the same thing you were originally saying. I enjoy the passion but maybe you could spend another minute or two reading their responses. Just seems like a bit of confusion and circles when I think we are all closer to the same page on the FA.

I get that I am repeating the same stuff. I am okay with tempering expectations but I have asked those arguing for that what their plan is or what they think will happen over the next 2 years and haven't gotten much back other than "we dont want Al at 4/112" which again nobody really wants.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Still don't get being interested Horford but not Vucevic.

Without reading it... I'm Guessing the idea that Horford is more mobile defending pf and pnr than Vuc. Also the fantasy that Horford would want to start the playoff process over here at significantly less money and years than rumored

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Still don't get being interested Horford but not Vucevic.

I thought this bit was interesting, as it’s the first time I’ve seen his name pop up...

A source said the Mavericks also have shown interest in 6-foot-10 small forward/power forward Mirotic, but that he is further down their wish list than Beverley.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by AO41

I get that I am repeating the same stuff. I am okay with tempering expectations but I have asked those arguing for that what their plan is or what they think will happen over the next 2 years and haven't gotten much back other than "we dont want Al at 4/112" which again nobody really wants.

Fair enough, I tought the consensus top 3 seemed to be

Brogdan
Dedmon, bev
Walker

Ed Davis and a cpl others are prob in the mix just a little lower .


Then if not there's trade options which would probably be more clear because they would have time to get a clearer picture of the needs.

[Dtownsfinest]

What on earth is there fascination with Patrick Beverly. I do not get it. If they aren't going to get one of the big names then go after the young guys with potential who have struggled but haven't hit their potential.