Official Dirk is Great Thread - Page 46 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 05-24-2011, 08:40 AM

Dirk's a better player than KG... KG's obviously a better defender and rebounder, but there's simply no comparing their offensive games. Dirk's a couple levels above KG when it comes to offensive ability.

TheDeutschman · 05-24-2011, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

I thought that was already done..

That's what you and I think. still looking for a "neutral" list on the internet to put him in front of Garnett, though. Every single list I found has Duncan first, Malone second, some combination of Barkley, Hayes, Pettit, Havlicek in between, then KG at 5-6 and Dirk at around 7-9.

Didn't find a list compiled during Dirk's recent jordanesque run. I wonder if the perception has changed already or if he HAS to win the ring for that to happen.

Murphy3 · 05-24-2011, 09:10 AM

Karl Malone's playoff numbers aren't remotely close to those of Dirk's... Barkley's pretty close to Dirk... Garnett's no dirk come playoff time.... Elvin Hayes playoff numbers aren't remotely comparable. Havlicek's a guard/forward. Hard to compare him and Petit with it being such a different era. Duncan's playoff numbers are almost as dominant as Dirk's.. but, he obviously has the rings.

sefant77 · 05-24-2011, 09:31 AM

The guy is almost 33 and playing on the highest level of his career. Amazing.

Underdog · 05-24-2011, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

The guy is almost 33 and playing on the highest level of his career. Amazing.

Yeah, it's actually hard to say that he's "peaked" at this point too - he just keeps getting better & better...

GermanDunk · 05-24-2011, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

All hail His Dirkness!!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...685160182.html

"lifeguard hair"...Not astonishing considering his music taste

Rick41 · 05-24-2011, 09:54 AM

"Damn Dirk" is trending on Twitter.

LetsGoMavs · 05-24-2011, 09:56 AM

Skip Bayless's take on Dirk's 4th quarter performance coming up on First Take - get ready for a troll job of monstrous proportions.

dude1394 · 05-24-2011, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LetsGoMavs

Skip Bayless's take on Dirk's 4th quarter performance coming up on First Take - get ready for a troll job of monstrous proportions.

Wow...that was dumber than I expected and I expected something really retarded...

Rick41 · 05-24-2011, 10:22 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C05TMdwJyYo&NR=1

sefant77 · 05-24-2011, 10:49 AM

Watch the crowd in the background at 0:30, epic!

and the girl at 0:48, hahaha

SMC0007 · 05-24-2011, 11:27 AM

http://www.csnnw.com/pages/landing/?...35&feedID=8351

Last week, near the end of what is usually a weekly appearance on The Morning Sports Page with Chad Doing, I made a remark that I didn't think would set off such a fuss.

We were talking about how good Dirk Nowitzki is and off-handedly I mentioned that I thought he was as good as Larry Bird (I might have even said he's better than Bird). Of course, Chad, who is nuts and thinks Bird is among the five best players ever (which is downright absurd), went crazy.

He eventually did some sort of post about it on his Facebook page, which resulted in me getting email notifications every time someone commented on the subject. And there were many of those, most from people who thought I was either senile or had taken leave of my senses.

Sadly, most of those people are slaves to their warm but not-always-reliable memories and also stuck with a lot of flawed logic. A lot of their arguments had to do with statistics -- where if you take a cursory look at them, Bird appears to be the clear leader. Problem is, most people didn't take into account how much more scoring was done in Bird's era, where teams scored so much more and so much easier than they do in today's game. That also leads to more assists, more rebounds and better overall offensive numbers.

But the game has changed. A lot. Defenses these days are much, much more sophisticated and physical. Bird never had to face the kind of physical double-teams and zones that Dirk sees all the time. (Even if he did, Bird's teammates were great enough he wouldn't have needed to worry so much. What are you going to do, double-team him and leave Dennis Johnson or Kevin McHale or Danny Ainge open?).

A lot of people made the tired old "rings" argument. You know, "How many rings does he have?" That's the kind of logic that would lead you to believe Steve Kerr could be a better guard than Walt Frazier, by the way. And it's silly, because Dirk has never played on a team good enough to win a championship. He played on a few -- including this one -- that had a chance to win one, but I'd have a hard time saying they should have been odds-on favorites.

At some point soon, I'm going to tackle the whole idea of judging players by their championships, because that's a great subject for a debate in itself.

But the funniest argument I heard for Bird was that "he made other players better and Dirk doesn't."

Incredible. Bird played with Hall of Famers. He had McHale, Parrish, DJ and a whole group of great supporting players. Did Bird make them better or was it the reverse? All I know is that Bird played on a front line that virtually featured two centers -- so he had small forwards defending him all the time. He was a great, great player. I don't mean to demean him.

But come on, poor Dirk is out there trying to haul Tyson Chandler and Shawn Marion and 57-year-old Jason Kidd to a title while teams are running multiple defenders at him. Dirk isn't making those guys better? Wow.

I think it all sort of comes down to Bird mythology, the fact that Bird was a great American story, the Hick from French Lick... while Dirk is a German, and we've been predisposed for years to think the European players are soft and not as good as "our" players -- even though by now we've seen how ridiculous that concept is.

I suppose if you're so preconditioned to thinking I'm off base, you're not going to listen to any of my arguments, anyway. So I figured I'd better give you a link so you can see that some investigation has already been done on this argument, mostly because one of the world's most articulate Boston Celtic fans, Bill Simmons, mentioned recently on a podcast that "advanced stats" show Dirk at least on the same level or even better than Bird.

So Neil Paine at Basketball-Reference.com did a study and found that Simmons is right.

"Dirk's ridiculous efficiency numbers really jump off the page -- his career translated offensive rating is 4.5 points higher than Bird's, and it's not the product of a usage discrepancy, either. It's hard to argue that Dirk Nowitzki isn't a more efficient offensive player than Larry Bird was."

Paine uses Bird's edge in assists and rebounds to try to say that Bird was a better all-around offensive player, even though he may not have been as efficient a scorer as Dirk, but I'd also point out that given the talent level of Bird's teammates, it was much easier to pile up assists than it would be if you were passing the ball to the likes of Tyson Chandler or even the up-and-down Jason Terry, who will never be confused with Dennis Johnson.

Plus, Dirk has always been in a position where he has to force shots. He's by far the best scorer on his team without a lot of other options. He doesn't have Kevin McHale to dump the ball into. He has a heavy burden. His job has mostly been to score -- because the Mavs haven't had other options anywhere close to him in scoring ability.

Folks, you may not want to hear it, but Dirk is not just good. He is Larry Bird good.

SMC0007 · 05-24-2011, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Watch the crowd in the background at 0:30, epic!

and the girl at 0:48, hahaha

LOLs the girl at :48 was greatness. That look is priceless.

mavErika · 05-24-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowitzness81

Someone want to explain what happened to Dirk in Game 6 at Portland?

Before game 6:

41.8% FG

Since, incl. game 6:

57.6% FG

Not an explanation (and it doesn't really fit since that 33/11/4-game 6 happened on April 28th anyway), but boy, it is and was a lovely a month of may in which my already huge love for the Mavs and Dirk arose to unprecedented heights and I'm really just looking for reasons to post this masterpiece.

DirkFTW · 05-24-2011, 12:47 PM

Budapest Maverick · 05-24-2011, 01:00 PM

What can you say? Nothing. Just watch him.

MascisMan · 05-24-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDeutschman

That's what you and I think. still looking for a "neutral" list on the internet to put him in front of Garnett, though. Every single list I found has Duncan first, Malone second, some combination of Barkley, Hayes, Pettit, Havlicek in between, then KG at 5-6 and Dirk at around 7-9.

Didn't find a list compiled during Dirk's recent jordanesque run. I wonder if the perception has changed already or if he HAS to win the ring for that to happen.

Thats the big misconception. Even though KG has a ring, he didn't LEAD the team to the championship, he was just a contributer. That was Paul Pierce's team. KG couldn't do it on his own, just like LeBron couldn't, or Gasol or Ray Allen, etc. etc.

In my opinion, if you didn't lead the team to the ring, then the ring is a non-factor in determining value. Otherwise Robert Horry would be up there as well (yes I know KG is better than Horry).

GermanDunk · 05-24-2011, 01:25 PM

DirkFTW : I have to spread

sefant77 · 05-24-2011, 01:26 PM

best photoshop i ever did

SMC0007 · 05-24-2011, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

best photoshop i ever did

Indeed!

92bDad · 05-24-2011, 01:33 PM

Dirk is in a class by himself...he's a throw back to the Bird years and yes, he can be compared to him. So many points for and against, hopefully the title debate will be removed this year!!!

On the flip side, I look at this next generation of player, and it appears as though Dirk is playing his MiniMe...Kevin Durant. Durant is a younger version of Dirk...tall, lanky, sweet outside jumper and having to learn how to play the tough physical game...as well as the mental Basketball IQ toughness.

Nice to see Dirk getting the credit as one of the greats...I have always felt that he was indeed better than Karl Malone and KG...only with a bit of a different skill set. Now, it's tough to argue against Duncan, as much as I want Dirk to be rated higher, I do place a serious value on Titles, and quite frankly Duncan is the main reason the hated Spurs have their titles...not just one but multiple. It's the main reason that I consider Troy Aikman one of the best NFL QB's of all-time...Titles mean something and being a leader on the title teams is no doubt something that can't be measured any higher.

Dirk appears to have that leadership...at least in the Portland and Laker series...and 3 wins into the OKC Series. He has helped this team rise above the other team and any perceived officiating issues. Rather than whine about calls, or lack there of, we are seeing Dirk approach the rim with a Nick Van Excel "F-Em" mentality and scores regardless of contact!!!

There is no doubt that Dirk is NOT an NBA Marketing favorite...he's basically a hard working unsung hero...hopefully one who gets the ultimate crown!!! For now, the Mavs have one more win to get in order to give Dirk a shot at ultimate greatness!!!

mary · 05-24-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Watch the crowd in the background at 0:30, epic!

and the girl at 0:48, hahaha

There's nothing like watching 18,000 pairs of sports pants go flaccid.

CadBane · 05-24-2011, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Wow...that was dumber than I expected and I expected something really retarded...

What did that clown end up saying?

dude1394 · 05-24-2011, 04:26 PM

I'm not sure I've ever heards as gushing praise for the Dirkster as I just did from Corby and the other dude on the hardline. Corby was downright emotional.

A great sig-worthy statement was also uttered with respect to the dirksters last two free throws.

"That dude must bleed freon".

dude1394 · 05-24-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

What did that clown end up saying?

I can't recall to be honest...if it was the shawn should have got a call on durant since dirk did (thank goodness the other guy on the panel kept saying into the screaming "he was hooked, he was hooked, he was hooked..IT"S A FOUL!!! )

fluid.forty.one · 05-24-2011, 04:35 PM

Shawn had the cleanest block possible. Skip is a troll.

MaverickOutlaw · 05-24-2011, 04:42 PM

Why does Skip even have a job?

BGMaverick9 · 05-24-2011, 05:00 PM

Dirk Nowitzki has been brilliant in the playoffs with his shooting, so much so that he's put himself on a short list in terms of efficient productivity. Per Mavs' statisticians, Nowitzki became the first player to have two games in the same playoff series in which a player scored 40 points and shot at least 60 percent from the floor since 2000. The last player to do so was Shaquille O'Neal as the big man had a pair of such games for the Los Angeles Lakers in the 2000 Finals against the Indiana Pacers.

JeffViggiano · 05-24-2011, 05:46 PM

in 2006 he played the finals with Harris,howard,dampier,terry,diop,griffin etc. etc.

they are all mediocre players...he made them better.no doubt.

GermanDunk · 05-24-2011, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

best photoshop i ever did

Big props to your photoshop, but what impresses me more is the elder statesman in the middle. He does recognize the effort the opponent is putting in. That makes him a good sportsman.

( You might have missed that while looking at chicks, right ? )

dude1394 · 05-24-2011, 09:00 PM

The elder statesman looks like me when I watch the dirkster. "damn, just damn"

DIRK LEGIONS · 05-24-2011, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

best photoshop i ever did

is there a high resolution picture of that dirktacular shot!

DIRK LEGIONS · 05-24-2011, 09:13 PM

OUR LORD AND SAVIOR

Skywalker · 05-24-2011, 10:19 PM

bernardos70 · 05-24-2011, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanDunk

DirkFTW : I have to spread

We love you GD, but please don't.

sefant77 · 05-24-2011, 11:54 PM

There was an article ~two weeks ago about why the old schemes about defending Dirk doesnt work anymore.

Anyone can link this again for me?

iella · 05-25-2011, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

There was an article ~two weeks ago about why the old schemes about defending Dirk doesnt work anymore.

Anyone can link this again for me?

You referring to this?

sefant77 · 05-25-2011, 12:07 AM

tnx!

Brad Kessler · 05-25-2011, 09:17 AM

Most of you probably haven't seen Chris Broussard's column because you have to pay to read it which would be like paying for a stomach ache but here's what he's saying about Dirk vs. Lebron:

"With a ring, LeBron can join the elite of the elite. Dirk -- unless he does the unrealistic and wins three of the next four titles -- will never join that group."

So he's basically saying that after years of failure in Cleveland, Lebron can piggyback his way to a title on the backs of D-Wade and Bosh and it will catapult him into the stratosphere of legendary players. But if Dirk earns a ring pretty much by himself, he's still just an ok player, nothing more. To me this speaks to something going on with Chris beyond basketball. There are people who have always and will always hate Tiger Woods (even before the infidelity) because he doesn't look like your average golfer. Dirk doesn't look like your average NBA superstar and for that reason, I believe, he will always be at a disadvantage when it comes to respect from certain people.

bernardos70 · 05-25-2011, 09:28 AM

Man-in-the-sky forbid Broussard says something objective about Dirk. I hope he gets the Black Plague, so I can write about him for my movie. (I don't expect anyone to get this).