Official offseason 2013-2014 thread - Page 49 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

nowhereman · 07-09-2013, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

There's really no point in this right now. Playable depth; We don't know if we're gonna have Wright. We don't know what Center we will have. You don't have any idea how Harris, Mekel, Larkin, Ellington, Ledo are going to play together under RC and around Dirk. Hell the one thing we do know is that CArter, Crowder and (Wright) provide above par playable depth. As a cpl others mention, throw Bynum and another decent player and you have a very nice team on paper.

Whether Bynum can get back to form is an obvious question but in theory, I don't understand not being a little more optimistic about the way that looks.

Out of Harris, Mekel, Larkin, Ellington, Ledo, and Akognon, I can't imagine a single one of those guys being a meaningful player on a contending team.

LonghornDub · 07-09-2013, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

I'm not nearly as high on Harris and Ellington as you are, I guess.

Based on what? Not sarcastic--I'd really like to know. The numbers say they are both good "depth" guys at that position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Out of Harris, Mekel, Larkin, Ellington, Ledo, and Akognon, I can't imagine a single one of those guys being a meaningful player on a contending team.

The Mavs are not going to be a contending team. And this is preposterous anyway. Gary Neal was a "meaningful player" on a nearly championship team. He is no better than Harris and arguably not better than Ellington.

LSMF · 07-09-2013, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

He didn't screw his team. Cleveland screwed him. He should have 4 or 5 rings by now but they put a roster as bad as last years mavs around him for years. He was a free agent and he left which he had every right to do. Was the decision a douchey thing to do? Absolutely as was the heatles signing ceremony. That being said, it was nowhere near as bad as the bullshit Dwight has put people through for the last two years.

Hmm...I don't know if I can agree with this, brother. I think the teams around Lebron in his early years were pure crap, no argument there. But in his last few years there I remember those teams were looked at as legitimate title contenders. There was lack of a real #2 scorer (Mo Williams played that role, but he was better suited as a 3rd option). Lebron had those guys playing well, they had good chemistry and they seemed to always be having fun. Didn't the Cavaliers have the best record in the league back in 08-09? I remember them winning 60+ games, with them doing dances on the bench while they won games in Blowout fashion. Those guys were always joking, smiling, laughing and rolling over teams with relative ease. But then when they got deep in the playoffs they would lose. People are quick to say in hindsight "Lebron had no help", but back when they were winning and dancing in nearly every game no one was saying any of those things. I don't know that's just how I remember the Cavs teams in his latter years there.

nowhereman · 07-09-2013, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Based on what? Not sarcastic--I'd really like to know. The numbers say they are both good "depth" guys at that position.

I'd love them in a backup role - but one of those guys has to be starting. Harris pulled a 13.6 PER at the SG slot last year, has basically no midrange game, not a great shooter, and his numbers are trending downward. Ellington's shooting numbers from past year are pretty deceptive, and he's never been anything better than a backup on mostly bad teams.

I'd much rather have OJ than both of those guys.

nowhereman · 07-09-2013, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The Mavs are not going to be a contending team.

Right. That might have quite a bit to do with rolling out a Harris/Calderon/Akognon/Larkin/Ledo/Ellington/Mekel backcourt, and praying for a playable Center.

Quote:

And this is preposterous anyway. Gary Neal was a "meaningful player" on a nearly championship team. He is no better than Harris and arguably not better than Ellington.

Yeah, but Neal is one player that was 8th on his team in minutes played and played a limited role. He's not 7 of them, out of which ~4 will be near the lead for minutes played and many of which will be heavily relied on to do something that far exceeds their talents.

Five-ofan · 07-09-2013, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSMF

Hmm...I don't know if I can agree with this, brother. I think the teams around Lebron in his early years were pure crap, no argument there. But in his last few years there I remember those teams were looked at as legitimate title contenders. There was lack of a real #2 scorer (Mo Williams played that role, but he was better suited as a 3rd option). Lebron had those guys playing well, they had good chemistry and they seemed to always be having fun. Didn't the Cavaliers have the best record in the league back in 08-09? I remember them winning 60+ games, with them doing dances on the bench while they won games in Blowout fashion. Those guys were always joking, smiling, laughing and rolling over teams with relative ease. But then when they got deep in the playoffs they would lose. People are quick to say in hindsight "Lebron had no help", but back when they were winning and dancing in nearly every game no one was saying any of those things. I don't know that's just how I remember the Cavs teams in his latter years there.

They were that good because of lebron. I don't think some people get just how good the guy is. He's been the clear cut best player in the league for 7 years and honestly no one has been close(yes that includes prime Kobe) There is a reason they won 15 games the year after he left. They were absolute dog shit rosters.

LonghornDub · 07-09-2013, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

I'd much rather have OJ than both of those guys.

Mayo got $8M a year. Mavs weren't gonna pay that, nor should they. If he cost the same as Harris (or Ellington), I too would take him over those guys. You're not examining this through the lens of their salaries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Right. That might have quite a bit to do with rolling out a Harris/Calderon/Akognon/Larkin/Ledo/Ellington/Mekel backcourt, and praying for a playable Center.

You're really skirting the issue here though. You're basically just lodging a complaint about how the Mavs don't have good enough players to contend. That's neither new nor particularly interesting. We're all mad about that.

The question here should be: are these signings smart ones given the Mavs' current circumstances and the players on the market? The answer is yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Yeah, but Neal is one player that was 8th on his team in minutes played and played a limited role. He's not 7 of them, out of which ~4 will be near the lead for minutes played and many of which will be heavily relied on to do something that far exceeds their talents.

I hear you on that, but you just made a blanket statement that two guys who most certainly have the talent to be "meaningful players" on a good team can't possibly do that. You lumped in a former All-Star and a proven bench shooter with guys who have never even played in the NBA. Just comes across as exaggerating in an attempt to make your point.

Melonhead · 07-09-2013, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Nothing makes me happier than a guying blowing up against the Heat.

You got that right. I fully enjoyed that video.

nowhereman · 07-09-2013, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Mayo got $8M a year. Mavs weren't gonna pay that, nor should they. If he cost the same as Harris (or Ellington), I too would take him over those guys. You're not examining this through the lens of their salaries.

You're really skirting the issue here though. You're basically just lodging a complaint about how the Mavs don't have good enough players to contend. That's neither new nor particularly interesting. We're all mad about that.

The question here should be: are these signings smart ones given the Mavs' current circumstances and the players on the market? The answer is yes.

Not sure why you're reading so much into what I'm saying. My comment was simply that this team is starting to look pretty crappy. You responded that the team actually looks pretty good. I guess we gotta put an asterisk around your earlier comment that says (*given the circumstances).

LonghornDub · 07-09-2013, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Not sure why you're reading so much into what I'm saying. My comment was simply that this team is starting to look pretty crappy. You responded that the team actually looks pretty good. I guess we gotta put an asterisk around your earlier comment that says (*given the circumstances).

No, sorry, I thought the topic shifted a bit. You're right, though, let me steer it back:

The asterisk isn't "given the circumstances." Apparently, the asterisk is to clarify that "pretty decent" (which is what I said) doesn't mean "title contender."

From everything you've said so far, it sounds like your definition of "crappy" means that the team isn't going to be contending for a title. I take a much more nuanced view. If they get Bynum, they will compete for a playoff spot and will have a chance to win a series. That's not "crappy," in my eyes. If you wanna roll with that label, fine, I suppose. Still comes across like you're exaggerating for impact.

SMC0007 · 07-09-2013, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Out of Harris, Mekel, Larkin, Ellington, Ledo, and Akognon, I can't imagine a single one of those guys being a meaningful player on a contending team.

Bubba, It's still too early to tell what we have. The roster is not complete so your opinion is invalid!

It's completely relatvie, but Harris, Carter, Wright, Crowder for sure could contribute to a contending team.

MavsFTR · 07-09-2013, 11:05 PM

The way I see it is they're accumulating assets that can be used together in order to make a nice midsession trade. That's my hope, at least...

SMC0007 · 07-09-2013, 11:09 PM

I think some fans might consider taking a step back and realize that, just because we have won 1 championship doesn't mean we need to have the approach that if we don't win a ring or play in the finals every year, it's unsuccessful. I enjoy the journey. That's what made it so damn sweet when we finally got it, and against the fn Heat, with so many veteran guys who deserved a ring(Kidd,Peja,Dirk,Chandler,MArion,Stevenson).

nowhereman · 07-09-2013, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

No, sorry, I thought the topic shifted a bit. You're right, though, let me steer it back:

The asterisk isn't "given the circumstances." Apparently, the asterisk is to clarify that "pretty decent" (which is what I said) doesn't mean "title contender."

From everything you've said so far, it sounds like your definition of "crappy" means that the team isn't going to be contending for a title. I take a much more nuanced view. If they get Bynum, they will compete for a playoff spot and will have a chance to win a series. That's not "crappy," in my eyes. If you wanna roll with that label, fine, I suppose. Still comes across like you're exaggerating for impact.

Yeah - my prediction out loud has been that they'd be looking at the 7 slot and might be able to (~20% chance) take a series. I see OKC, San Antonio, Houston, Golden State, Memphis, and the Clippers pretty easily ahead of the Mavs. I see us fighting it out with Denver, Portland, the Lakers, and Minnesota for the last 2 spots. I see Utah, Sacramento, Phoenix, and New Orleans pretty clearly in the gutter. Just not super enthusiastic about trotting out what I perceive as the 13th through 17th best team in the league.

Melonhead · 07-09-2013, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I think some fans might consider taking a step back and realize that, just because we have won 1 championship doesn't mean we need to have the approach that if we don't win a ring or play in the finals every year, it's unsuccessful. I enjoy the journey. That's what made it so damn sweet when we finally got it, and against the fn Heat, with so many veteran guys who deserved a ring(Kidd,Peja,Dirk,Chandler,MArion,Stevenson).

I view it unsuccessful purely from the stance that Dirk's final years are being wasted by Cuban thinking he's the smartest guy in the NBA and taking the wrong approach in regards to the CBA. That's why to me its all or nothing at the moment.

LonghornDub · 07-09-2013, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Yeah - my prediction out loud has been that they'd be looking at the 7 slot and might be able to (~20% chance) take a series. I see OKC, San Antonio, Houston, Golden State, Memphis, and the Clippers pretty easily ahead of the Mavs. I see us fighting it out with Denver, Portland, the Lakers, and Minnesota for the last 2 spots. I see Utah, Sacramento, Phoenix, and New Orleans pretty clearly in the gutter. Just not super enthusiastic about trotting out what I perceive as the 13th through 17th best team in the league.

I agree with that pecking order. It's obviously not where we want to be, but except for folks who believe (wrongly, in my view) that the only good alternative to competing for titles every single year is tanking for draft picks, I feel like there are at least a few things to be optimistic about this year.

chumdawg · 07-10-2013, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I'd firmly disagree and say, if they get Bynum, it's actually a pretty decent looking team. They're not going to be making any Finals runs, but they will likely make the postseason and have a chance for an upset.

Probably not too far removed from the general opinion a few years ago.

bobatundi · 07-10-2013, 06:50 AM

Wonder if the Mavs could get in on Aldridge, if he really wants out of Portland? Marion, Larkin and a future #1? Or are we hamstrung from trading a future #1 until that stupid Lamar Odom pick ends up resolved?

Five-ofan · 07-10-2013, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Yeah - my prediction out loud has been that they'd be looking at the 7 slot and might be able to (~20% chance) take a series. I see OKC, San Antonio, Houston, Golden State, Memphis, and the Clippers pretty easily ahead of the Mavs. I see us fighting it out with Denver, Portland, the Lakers, and Minnesota for the last 2 spots. I see Utah, Sacramento, Phoenix, and New Orleans pretty clearly in the gutter. Just not super enthusiastic about trotting out what I perceive as the 13th through 17th best team in the league.

With a healthy dirk and Bynum they are better than Houston, Memphis and maybe the clippers.

spreedom · 07-10-2013, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobatundi

Wonder if the Mavs could get in on Aldridge, if he really wants out of Portland? Marion, Larkin and a future #1? Or are we hamstrung from trading a future #1 until that stupid Lamar Odom pick ends up resolved?

I think so, because I think we owe the Thunder our next pick but it's top-20 protected. So basically we can't trade a first until that gets resolved.

sefant77 · 07-10-2013, 08:30 AM

Bynum, Dalembert, Oden

AK

Wouldnt mind to dump Marion and sign Bynum, AK and one of Dalembert/Oden...

Dirk's Knee · 07-10-2013, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I view it unsuccessful purely from the stance that Dirk's final years are being wasted by Cuban thinking he's the smartest guy in the NBA and taking the wrong approach in regards to the CBA. That's why to me its all or nothing at the moment.

Wasted? Dirk has Cuban to thank for getting the ring in the first place. He understands that in ways many fans just don't seem to. Listen, I hate the way the Mavericks piss all over the draft every year, but Cubes and crew have been a phenomenal front office when it comes to putting a competitive team around Dirk. They gambled and failed, but Dirk was consulted about it and on board. So if his final years are wasted, he has himself to blame as well. Dirk has a handful more chances, and with each year he will have to be more comfortable playing a secondary role. The FA shuffle worked great for finding complementary pieces, but until Dallas takes the draft seriously, we will not have that piece to build the franchise future around.

nowhereman · 07-10-2013, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

With a healthy dirk and Bynum they are better than Houston, Memphis and maybe the clippers.

If we get Bynum, and if he's healthy (two huge preconditions), then I agree that things look a whole heck of a lot better for our upside.

sefant77 · 07-10-2013, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I view it unsuccessful purely from the stance that Dirk's final years are being wasted by Cuban thinking he's the smartest guy in the NBA and taking the wrong approach in regards to the CBA. That's why to me its all or nothing at the moment.

Cuban earned (better spent) his damn rights to approach the new CBA the way he did...

sefant77 · 07-10-2013, 08:38 AM

The Nets have to pay end of next season appr. 75m in LT...

LonghornDub · 07-10-2013, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

The Nets have to pay end of next season appr. 75m in LT...

Rich as Cuban is, I'm confident that's far beyond the point he could comfortably pay. Prokhorov is a whole different level of rich.

LonghornDub · 07-10-2013, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Probably not too far removed from the general opinion a few years ago.

A very good point.

spreedom · 07-10-2013, 10:05 AM

The Pelicans just waived Lance Thomas... not a bad option as a backup or third SF if we end up moving Vince or Marion. And probably available at the league minimum.

grndmstr_c · 07-10-2013, 10:34 AM

Monta just fired his agent and is expected to switch to Dan Fegan.

Underdog · 07-10-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Monta just fired his agent and is expected to switch to Dan Fegan.

So ditching Marion to get Monta is probably out of the question... But it probably doesn't matter, since Ellis clearly thinks he's worth more than he is.

grndmstr_c · 07-10-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

So ditching Marion to get Monta is probably out of the question... But it probably doesn't matter, since Ellis clearly thinks he's worth more than he is.

And/or he feels he received bad advice that led to him opting out of his contract/rejecting the Bucks' rather generous extension offer so that he could take what it is now clear to him is going to be a fairly sizable pay cut.

Underdog · 07-10-2013, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

And/or he feels he received bad advice that led to him opting out of his contract/rejecting the Bucks' rather generous extension offer so that he could take what it is now clear to him is going to be a fairly sizable pay cut.

Probably a little of both, yeah. He should've never been paid that much to begin with.

MavsFTR · 07-10-2013, 12:27 PM

Once Monta has a new agent and realizes his value is not as high as he though, does he agree to a Mayo-type deal?

Melonhead · 07-10-2013, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

Once Monta has a new agent and realizes his value is not as high as he though, does he agree to a Mayo-type deal?

Too full of himself imo, although i think he deserves a better deal than what mayo got last year.

some1nw · 07-10-2013, 01:29 PM

I heard Crowder lost 15 pounds this summer. He is expected to play some SG

SMC0007 · 07-10-2013, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by some1nw

I heard Crowder lost 15 pounds this summer. He is expected to play some SG

That's excellent news that he lost 15 lbs. Hope he has been jacking off shots this offseason too. I mean he needs to get it silky smooth.

LonghornDub · 07-10-2013, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Hope he has been jacking off shots this offseason too.

Go on.

sefant77 · 07-10-2013, 02:17 PM

Donnie said they are still interested in Bynum: "We still need help and support in our frontcourt. We’re going to turn over every stone."

So pretty much the question if they gamble and blow the 8.5m with Bynum or choose a little bit more save option with Dalembert 5m (and maybe gamble with a Oden contract for 1-3m).

Or if they are pushing harder for Gortat after the docs saw Bynums files...

Underdog · 07-10-2013, 02:28 PM

@BallinWithBryan: Donnie Nelson said that they are "in discussion" with Elton Brand and Brandan Wright to stay with the Mavs.

EricaLubarsky · 07-10-2013, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Hope he has been jacking off shots this offseason too. I mean he needs to get it silky smooth.