Josh Howard More Banged Up Than We Thought - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

badfish22 · 12-08-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I'm sure his return has nothing to do with the two game losing streak and the fact we're facing another good team. There's just no way you can make the case we're rushing him back too early.

Alright so now that that's settled....

ReDirkulous Tyme · 12-08-2009, 11:11 PM

Damn, Josh looked pretty hobbled tonight huh?

cinemablend · 12-09-2009, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfanforlife09

Damn, Josh looked pretty hobbled tonight huh?

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=2321

"“It's going to be sore, guys,’’ Josh told reporters after..."

"“He just showed a lot of guts tonight,’’ Carlisle said. “Because he was tired and you could tell he was a little sore.’’"

ReDirkulous Tyme · 12-09-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinemablend

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=2321

"“It's going to be sore, guys,’’ Josh told reporters after..."

"“He just showed a lot of guts tonight,’’ Carlisle said. “Because he was tired and you could tell he was a little sore.’’"

What I meant by "hobbled" was that it didn't look like Josh was overtly favoring the ankle, or pushing himself less than 100% because of the ankle. Of course its going to be sore, and it will be for awhile, thats the nature of ankle injuries. What I look for is whether or not the injury is hampering the player to the point where they have to adjust their game to compensate. That may have seemed slightly present last night, but I thought overall Josh looked fantastic, and fairly healthy. He gave 110% when he was out there on BOTH the offensive and defensive ends.

To me, his performance, and the way he moved and acted on the court indicated to me that he won't be hobbled the whole season with this injury. Its plays like the fantastic block he had last night that cause me to think Josh is already healthier than he has been in a long, long time. And he will only continue to get healthier as the season progresses hopefully.

cinemablend · 12-09-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfanforlife09

To me, his performance, and the way he moved and acted on the court indicated to me that he won't be hobbled the whole season with this injury.

Josh Howard: ""Just keep working at it. It’s going to be sore the rest of the year, guys. It's something I'm going to have to deal with and just keep playing."

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=2323

Word is that he may not even be playing in back to backs. Who knows how long this will go on, but Howard and Carlisle are still talking about it like this is a permanent situation.

badfish22 · 12-09-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinemablend

Josh Howard: ""Just keep working at it. It’s going to be sore the rest of the year, guys. It's something I'm going to have to deal with and just keep playing."

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=2323

Word is that he may not even be playing in back to backs. Who knows how long this will go on, but Howard and Carlisle are still talking about it like this is a permanent situation.

http://www.nba.com/video/mavericks/

Listen to this interview, he seems to think it will get 100% sometime soon.

G-Man · 12-10-2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinemablend

If the surgery had done what it was designed to do, then he would have been back and playing at 100% a long, long time ago. The fact that he wasn't tells us that it didn't do what it was supposed to do and that we're going to have a hobbled Josh, for at least the rest of this season if not the rest of his career.

I love the certainty in posts like this one. Are you like 7 years old or something? The human body is not like a car. You don't bend a wheel and just replace it with another one. Different bodies have different problems and all people don't heal the same. You have no idea of what the docs found when they opened him up. You have no clue as to why his healing was delayed. And apparently you have no sympathy for how much worse it might be, because he took a shot every night of the playoffs, and gutted it up to get this team out of the second round.

I do know that it only makes sense to give the guy all the time he needs to heal. Take a lesson from Pop in SA. Winning games in December isn't nearly as important as having all your guys healthy in May. A gimpy Josh was good for 18/5 last year. Healthy, he was generally good for 19/7, and that was without Kidd, when his 4th quarter assignment was to spot up and watch the awesome Dirk-Terry 2 man game...which was good enough to get to the finals and win 67 games. But Josh averages almost 20 in 3 quarters.

My point is, the reasons for throwing the guy under the bus are weak. If there was a better player out there and a willing trade partner, then that's worth discussing. But with Josh at less that 100%, there is no way to trade him for someone better. You're left with NBA leftovers like Steven Jackson, a certified nut job, quitting on the team he just finished demanding an extension from. If you'd rather gamble on his sanity than Howard's health, I think you are setting yourself up to be disappointed.

If, on the other hand, Howard plays most games like the one against PHX, this team will be very very good. There are no back to backs in the playoffs. They already have the 3rd best record in the West. Add an 18/6 guy to that who's a solid defender...How could any Mavs fan not be happy?

dude1394 · 12-10-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

I love the certainty in posts like this one. Are you like 7 years old or something? The human body is not like a car. You don't bend a wheel and just replace it with another one. Different bodies have different problems and all people don't heal the same. You have no idea of what the docs found when they opened him up. You have no clue as to why his healing was delayed. And apparently you have no sympathy for how much worse it might be, because he took a shot every night of the playoffs, and gutted it up to get this team out of the second round.

I do know that it only makes sense to give the guy all the time he needs to heal. Take a lesson from Pop in SA. Winning games in December isn't nearly as important as having all your guys healthy in May. A gimpy Josh was good for 18/5 last year. Healthy, he was generally good for 19/7, and that was without Kidd, when his 4th quarter assignment was to spot up and watch the awesome Dirk-Terry 2 man game...which was good enough to get to the finals and win 67 games. But Josh averages almost 20 in 3 quarters.

My point is, the reasons for throwing the guy under the bus are weak. If there was a better player out there and a willing trade partner, then that's worth discussing. But with Josh at less that 100%, there is no way to trade him for someone better. You're left with NBA leftovers like Steven Jackson, a certified nut job, quitting on the team he just finished demanding an extension from. If you'd rather gamble on his sanity than Howard's health, I think you are setting yourself up to be disappointed.

If, on the other hand, Howard plays most games like the one against PHX, this team will be very very good. There are no back to backs in the playoffs. They already have the 3rd best record in the West. Add an 18/6 guy to that who's a solid defender...How could any Mavs fan not be happy?

Great post...couldn't agree more. It is mind-boggling to me that folks think players/people/ceos/corporations ALL are just trying to get over and not doing their best or the best and are dogging it on purpose, I've rarely seen that be the case.

Underdog · 12-10-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

Take a lesson from Pop in SA. Winning games in December isn't nearly as important as having all your guys healthy in May.

In the last GDT, someone asked "what does Rick see that we don't?" in reference to Barea...

The short answer: 82 games.

Every minute JJB plays is another minute Josh Howard can heal...

EricaLubarsky · 12-10-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

In the last GDT, someone asked "what does Rick see that we don't?" in reference to Barea...

The short answer: 82 games.

Every minute JJB plays is another minute Josh Howard can heal...

Im absolutely positively trying not to be negative here to the point that I haven't posted on the RB/JJB subject, but even at his young age, Beaubois already provides more positives than negatives when Kidd is out there. I wouldn't put Roddy out there with Ross because there would be no experienced playmaker but as far as off-guard is concerned Roddy provides length and intensity while not taking shots from the better scorers. JJB can provide ball movement but little else and about 80% of the time he's an absolute defensive liability. Occasionally he can be a good defensive player but only insofar as he reads ever dribble perfectly and doesn't get hit with a screen or slaps the ball away. JJB usually does not contest shots well, does not take charges, and does not play passing lanes well.

I understand RC not wanting to play a rookie for key minutes in a big game but he's already shown me at least that he can handle himself at least defensively and can knock down 3s when open. With Ross injured its really not an issue of JJB or Howard. There are other options than JJB at the 2, and JJB is still playing alongside Howard.

ReDirkulous Tyme · 12-10-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

I love the certainty in posts like this one. Are you like 7 years old or something? The human body is not like a car. You don't bend a wheel and just replace it with another one. Different bodies have different problems and all people don't heal the same. You have no idea of what the docs found when they opened him up. You have no clue as to why his healing was delayed. And apparently you have no sympathy for how much worse it might be, because he took a shot every night of the playoffs, and gutted it up to get this team out of the second round.

I do know that it only makes sense to give the guy all the time he needs to heal. Take a lesson from Pop in SA. Winning games in December isn't nearly as important as having all your guys healthy in May. A gimpy Josh was good for 18/5 last year. Healthy, he was generally good for 19/7, and that was without Kidd, when his 4th quarter assignment was to spot up and watch the awesome Dirk-Terry 2 man game...which was good enough to get to the finals and win 67 games. But Josh averages almost 20 in 3 quarters.

My point is, the reasons for throwing the guy under the bus are weak. If there was a better player out there and a willing trade partner, then that's worth discussing. But with Josh at less that 100%, there is no way to trade him for someone better. You're left with NBA leftovers like Steven Jackson, a certified nut job, quitting on the team he just finished demanding an extension from. If you'd rather gamble on his sanity than Howard's health, I think you are setting yourself up to be disappointed.

If, on the other hand, Howard plays most games like the one against PHX, this team will be very very good. There are no back to backs in the playoffs. They already have the 3rd best record in the West. Add an 18/6 guy to that who's a solid defender...How could any Mavs fan not be happy?

100% agree with you. And personally, I think a healthy Josh Howard, in this system, could get right around 20-21 a night. We heaven't seen a healthy Josh Howard play in this type of system whatsoever, so I'm highly excited to see what he'll do!!

SMC0007 · 12-10-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

In the last GDT, someone asked "what does Rick see that we don't?" in reference to Barea...

The short answer: 82 games.

Every minute JJB plays is another minute Josh Howard can heal...

I have read this a few times now from different people but the question still remains. Why not Roddy then? or at least a little more. He can spend the minutes just as well as JJB and he is better on the defensive end. Until R.C. comes out and says why, which I don't expect to happen, we will be asking this question until JHO is back full time and Roddys play clearly earns more of JJ's minutes. I thought that was already heappening tho, and thus the confusion.

Underdog · 12-10-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I understand RC not wanting to play a rookie for key minutes in a big game but he's already shown me at least that he can handle himself at least defensively and can knock down 3s when open.

That first part is your answer - I think Roddy is being limited ONLY because he's a rookie, but I fully expect him to steal more playtime from JJB as the season goes on (even after Josh is healthy...)

Barea is fairly consistent (good or bad) so Rick knows what he's dealing with and can game plan around him... I think Carlisle is still feeling out Roddy, trying to understand the subtleties of his strengths and weaknesses (as is Roddy) so he can better utilize him later in the season...

I bet we'll see a lot more Beaubois than Barea come playoff time...

jthig32 · 12-10-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I bet we'll see a lot more Beaubois than Barea come playoff time...

I would bet you see zero Beaubois and very, very little Barea come playoff time (assuming everyone is healthy).

dude1394 · 12-10-2009, 05:01 PM

I have to disagree jthig...I think jjb will continue to be the second point and he'll be used to spark the offense because there isn't another drive and kick guy on the team.

jthig32 · 12-10-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I have to disagree jthig...I think jjb will continue to be the second point and he'll be used to spark the offense because there isn't another drive and kick guy on the team.

I have no doubt that he'll be the backup point in the playoffs. But I would imagine any playing time at the off guard would be few and far between in the playoffs (again assuming everyone is healthy).

I would guess about 10 minutes a night, at the most.

mavErika · 12-11-2009, 02:28 AM

Josh on his ankle (audio) on gamenight with Ben&Skin. About 8 minutes of interview with Josh one day after the Phoenix game. He said his ankle felt WAY better than at his first return from injury this season and even that he probably could play that day, if there would have been a game, so you really can't rule out b2b's for him at this point. He also talks a lot about his ankle rehabbing.

sefant77 · 12-11-2009, 02:42 AM

Great to hear.

I was really worried that this will become a chronic stuff. 3-4 games, 1 DNP, 10 games, a week out etc...

Nowitzki4President · 12-11-2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

chronic stuff.

Chronic...

G-Man · 12-12-2009, 01:09 PM

One pattern I've seen with RC and his bench is a tendency to use a guy for a few games, then switch to another guy for the next few. We saw this last year with Bass and Singleton taking turns off the bench. That allowed him to see that Singleton was an ample sub for Bass's minutes. That gave him the freedom to let Bass go and take a flyer on Gooden, knowing that if DG flakes out, he's still got Singleton.

Perhaps the same thing is happening with Roddy. He's played a bunch, now he's sitting a bunch. RC now has a feel for where he is, and Roddy now has a feel for the NBA. I suspect there will be other times during the season when he'll get bunches of minutes, probably against teams that are easy to beat. For a guy like him who had only seen the NBA on TV, he can learn a lot just watching Kidd and JJB, and scrimmaging against him. I still think RC's plan is to have the kid able to help by playoff time. I am choosing to trust that this coach is better at breaking in young point guards than the last 2 are. It might be cool to see a repeat of Harris turning that series around against San Antonio, after being hurt for much of his 1st 2 years.

Kidd Karma · 12-12-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

One pattern I've seen with RC and his bench is a tendency to use a guy for a few games, then switch to another guy for the next few. We saw this last year with Bass and Singleton taking turns off the bench. That allowed him to see that Singleton was an ample sub for Bass's minutes. That gave him the freedom to let Bass go and take a flyer on Gooden, knowing that if DG flakes out, he's still got Singleton.

Perhaps the same thing is happening with Roddy. He's played a bunch, now he's sitting a bunch. RC now has a feel for where he is, and Roddy now has a feel for the NBA. I suspect there will be other times during the season when he'll get bunches of minutes, probably against teams that are easy to beat. For a guy like him who had only seen the NBA on TV, he can learn a lot just watching Kidd and JJB, and scrimmaging against him. I still think RC's plan is to have the kid able to help by playoff time. I am choosing to trust that this coach is better at breaking in young point guards than the last 2 are. It might be cool to see a repeat of Harris turning that series around against San Antonio, after being hurt for much of his 1st 2 years.

True good point, I like how RC uses the entire roster. Develop the players and team.

badfish22 · 12-14-2009, 05:44 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HecpU...layer_embedded

Rob breaks down Joshs return in his Moving Pictures series

jthig32 · 12-14-2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HecpU...layer_embedded

Rob breaks down Joshs return in his Moving Pictures series

Quote:

He employed the rarely used "spank defense".

Now that's just funny.

badfish22 · 12-30-2009, 11:47 PM

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallasmaveri...medium=twitter

Quote:

Mavericks coach Rick Carlisle said Josh Howard tweaked a hamstring in the first half at Denver on Sunday night. Howard left the game near the end of the first half, but was able to return and played well in the fourth quarter.

Howard was limited in practice the last two days, but Carlisle did not rule him out for Thursday's game at Houston.

"We held him out of contact yesterday (Tuesday). He did some things today (Wednesday), so we’ll cross our fingers and hope he’ll be OK tomorrow (Thursday)," Carlisle said.

great

sefant77 · 01-04-2010, 05:25 PM

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar...t_100_percent/

100% at sucking....

Usually Lurkin · 01-04-2010, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar...t_100_percent/

100% at sucking....

The last little bit:

Quote:

. . .and was able to produce against the Lakers on Sunday.

leads me to believe that JHo has taken a part time job writing sports for the DMN while he "rehabs". 'Cause the only thing I can think of that he might have produced last night (besides a win for the Lakers) is this update.

xrobx · 01-05-2010, 02:43 AM

we really really really need to find a way to get rid of this guy.

mac222b · 01-05-2010, 02:50 AM

he's a nice expiring who can still play a little. even if he couldn't play he'd still have value. we WILL have an opportunity to move him. just hope it's for parts we can use.

Bayliss · 01-10-2010, 08:39 PM

So is Howard day to day? What exactly happened to cause him to miss the Utah game?

(And once again it just shows that the Mavs cannot count on him.)

mavs777 · 01-10-2010, 09:10 PM

Trade him for butler and be done with it

sefant77 · 01-10-2010, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Trade him for butler and be done with it

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade...radeid=5375402

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade...radeid=5375434

Usually Lurkin · 01-10-2010, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

So is Howard day to day? What exactly happened to cause him to miss the Utah game?

(And once again it just shows that the Mavs cannot count on him.)

bruised thigh. I think I read that he got it in the San Antonio game.

mavs777 · 01-10-2010, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade...radeid=5375402

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade...radeid=5375434

singleton is much better than stevenson. do it str8 up butler for howard

mac222b · 01-11-2010, 12:05 AM

bruised thigh? that dude's such a little b_tch. time for him to move on...

sefant77 · 01-11-2010, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

singleton is much better than stevenson. do it str8 up butler for howard

i put Stevenson in as sweetner for the Wizards because because he makes around 4,5mio next season. Specially if they void Arenas they will look to dump Stevenson too for increased cap space.

LSMF · 01-11-2010, 01:46 PM

Gerald Wallace for Josh Howard Doesn't seem so lateral now, does it?

mac222b · 01-11-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

i put Stevenson in as sweetner for the Wizards because because he makes around 4,5mio next season. Specially if they void Arenas they will look to dump Stevenson too for increased cap space.

this would make it much more likely they'd do it. and Stevenson is a pretty good defender.

SMC0007 · 01-11-2010, 04:43 PM

They need to do something. Jho just IS NOT the 2 guard that we need (nor is JET). Mostly because of his handles and ability to create and finish late in games. If we don't get that person, who ever it may be, we will surely not be the ultimate winners this year.

dude1394 · 01-11-2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

They need to do something. Jho just IS NOT the 2 guard that we need (nor is JET). Mostly because of his handles and ability to create and finish late in games. If we don't get that person, who ever it may be, we will surely not be the ultimate winners this year.

Have to agree we just do NOT have another guy who can get to the ft line or drive and kick without doing a brain fart. It's going to bite us big, big time.

We are desperate for a guy with handles.

dude1394 · 01-11-2010, 06:25 PM

I was just watching a clip of Roddy against the spurs...maybe he's the answer to this if he can get his head right. But rick is going to have to give him some more time before he can really help down the stretch.

He's quick enough to play D (but still really,really green on pnr) and his handles are very nice with a thought of passing or shooting it. I haven't seen him get smashed so I'm not sure about drawing fouls but he may be our best drive and kicker.