Official Mavs 2020 Draft/Free Agency Thread - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

KillerLeft · 10-07-2020, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Do people really think there's value in giving up a player (Wright) and trade assets to essentially just save some money when we're not really creating substantive cap space.

It’s all about NEXT off season, 2021.

And, having cap space that off season isn’t all about Giannis, or even signing anyone. There are other ways to use the space, and that’s the team’s one and only chance to have significant space before Luka signs his rookie max extension.

Wright wasn’t even in the rotation by the end of the season, so that contract is a problem. I’m sure they’ll look at trading him for a player who they think can help now first, but that might necessitate the inclusion of #18 or another asset and ultimately, they might decide the prize isn’t worth the price. In that set of circumstances, I think they’d still like to get the contract off of their books.

EricaLubarsky · 10-07-2020, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

It’s all about NEXT off season, 2021.

And, having cap space that off season isn’t all about Giannis, or even signing anyone. There are other ways to use the space, and that’s the team’s one and only chance to have significant space before Luka signs his rookie max extension.

Wright wasn’t even in the rotation by the end of the season, so that contract is a problem. I’m sure they’ll look at trading him for a player who they think can help now first, but that might necessitate the inclusion of #18 or another asset and ultimately, they might decide the prize isn’t worth the price. In that set of circumstances, I think they’d still like to get the contract off of their books.

If its about cap space in 2021, why trade him this year?

His salary gets cheaper (9.5, 9.0, 8.5) and with one fewer year, he'd be cheaper and more tradable next year.

I get that he didn't work and if that was attitude, then he should be gone, but if it's just a matter of understanding the system, I think we have every reason to keep him for a year and really try to work with him to try to "get it". He's got all the physical tools and even was hitting the three decently. He's probably a better 3/D guy who can occasionally run the offense than anyone we can get in the draft/trade for.

I just don't see spending assets to dump a player who may actually contribute next year. We'd be essentially trading both a player and some assets just for dust that we may not be able to spend in 2021.

KillerLeft · 10-07-2020, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

If its about cap space in 2021, why trade him this year?

His salary gets cheaper (9.5, 9.0, 8.5) and with one fewer year, he'd be cheaper and more tradable next year.

I get that he didn't work and if that was attitude, then he should be gone, but if it's just a matter of understanding the system, I think we have every reason to keep him for a year and really try to work with him to try to "get it". He's got all the physical tools and even was hitting the three decently. He's probably a better 3/D guy who can occasionally run the offense than anyone we can get in the draft/trade for.

I just don't see spending assets to dump a player who may actually contribute next year. We'd be essentially trading both a player and some assets just for dust that we may not be able to spend in 2021.

All good points. I would guess the thinking might be this:

If Wright is out of the rotation, it’s because he wasn’t able to flourish in the role they envisioned for him, for whatever reason. Since that means his contract is not counterbalanced by his contributions on the court, it’s 100% cap clog, with no benefits. You seem open to the idea that another year in the system could actually get him to a more useful place, and for the record, I’m open to that as well. But, IF they’re shopping him as rumored, that might signal that they don’t see the situation that way.

Since they seem to be working towards the eventual goal of having max space In 2021, getting players with guaranteed money past next year who aren’t contributors off of the books would be pretty high on the short term goals list. Why this year, and not next? Good question, but maybe they think another year with him out of the rotation would lower his trade value, or maybe they just think having #18 to pair with him (moving that pick could potentially reduce their cap commitments, too) might fetch a more desirable return? They won’t have a pick to include in such a deal next year, after all.

If they end up including #18 in a deal JUST to dump Wright, I think there will be a lot to complain about, but it I wouldn’t be shocked. What if they’re able to dump Wright AND Powell? What if they’re able to trade Wright/#18 for a rotation player with playoff experience? Maybe even a starter?

I think their ideal move would be for a player who could contribute right away at a level they think superior to either Wright or whomever they’d take at #18, but who is on the last year of their deal. This player could be combined with THJ at the next trade deadline (when a boat load of teams will be trying to clear space) to snag someone really interesting (this is how they got KP, basically). Or, they could let these players expire and throw their hats in the ring for a FA (all the names we know). Or, they could help the teams those big name free agents choose make space by absorbing contracts of interesting players into that space (maybe with incoming draft capital for their trouble). Or, if they like the new player enough, they could view him (and THJ) as fallback options for team friendly long term deals.

Just the way I see their situation. They might not do any of this.

tap2390 · 10-07-2020, 09:47 PM

Woah. No one is suggesting attach #18 or #31 to get rid of Wright. Find a team like the Hawks who might value Wright independent of the pick and trade him into space if you can. If you can’t, no biggie.

KillerLeft · 10-07-2020, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Woah. No one is suggesting attach #18 or #31 to get rid of Wright. Find a team like the Hawks who might value Wright independent of the pick and trade him into space if you can. If you can’t, no biggie.

So in that scenario you’d get nothing at all in return, if I’m following.

I get how that could potentially help with the 2021 cap, and it would essentially just be getting a “do over” on the signing, but...not sure I’m into that.

If they think there’s a player they can’t live without at #18, sure. But, there probably isn’t. My guess is that in five years we’ll look back at this draft and think there are 5-7 guys drafted who are contributing anything at all, and most of the guys we like for #18 won’t be nearly as good as we think they will right now.

To me, the goal should be to move Wright for a contributor, and preferably one whose contract length contributes to the 2021 option, keeping it alive. If you can do that without #18, great, but I don’t hesitate if I think I’m getting a rotation player with playoff experience.

spreedom · 10-07-2020, 11:14 PM

I don't think there's much harm in keeping Wright this season. Next off-season, 25 teams are going to have cap space to absorb the Wright deal without sending anything back. The bigger the market, the better deal we'll likely get.

The only reason I'd play devil's advocate on dealing him this off-season is because there are only a handful of point guards in free agency that are as good as or better than Wright (Van Vleet, Dragic, Clarkson, Rivers, Teague, Augustin, Melton), and I bet a few of them re-sign before hitting the market. There are about 10 teams that could absorb Wright into space, and it only takes one of them to offer something good:

Atlanta has two extra 2023 2nd rounders
Pistons own Portland's 2023 2nd
Knicks have #32 in this draft
Suns don't have a 2nd rounder until 2022 and no extra picks

I think each of those teams has a clear need for backcourt help and would likely view Wright as a positive asset. This has the potential to be such a fascinating off-season. I can't wait to see what we do.

KillerLeft · 10-07-2020, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

I don't think there's much harm in keeping Wright this season. Next off-season, 25 teams are going to have cap space to absorb the Wright deal without sending anything back. The bigger the market, the better deal we'll likely get.

The only reason I'd play devil's advocate on dealing him this off-season is because there are only a handful of point guards in free agency that are as good as or better than Wright (Van Vleet, Dragic, Clarkson, Rivers, Teague, Augustin, Melton), and I bet a few of them re-sign before hitting the market. There are about 10 teams that could absorb Wright into space, and it only takes one of them to offer something good:

Atlanta has two extra 2023 2nd rounders
Pistons own Portland's 2023 2nd
Knicks have #32 in this draft
Suns don't have a 2nd rounder until 2022 and no extra picks

I think each of those teams has a clear need for backcourt help and would likely view Wright as a positive asset. This has the potential to be such a fascinating off-season. I can't wait to see what we do.

Good stuff, thanks for posting!

EricaLubarsky · 10-08-2020, 09:56 AM

I still think that Wright was just lost and is the perfect player for the Mavs if he "gets it" - defensive guy who can guard 1-3, hit the three, run some secondary offense, interrupt opposing defenses. I think it's worth giving him another year to figure it out unless it was an attitude problem.

Still, if you can get positive value for him (not paying a team to absorb his salary), then you at least investigate.

There are guys in this draft who can do what he does. Maybe just secure Burke as our sparkplug PG and find a defensive SG/SF. Maledon will probably be available and he has Wright's body, but nowhere near his defensive prowess. Maybe no one who has everything Wright has, but some different guys who can provide some of his potential.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-08-2020, 10:30 AM

I don't want to just give away Wright, but I really can't see him here next season. It's a bad combination of not being happy with a role and the coach unable to find a role for him. He had basically 0 value in the playoffs outside of garbage minutes in game 6. They had an entire season plus bubble to find a fit for him. If anything, the fit got worse as things moved along.

EricaLubarsky · 10-08-2020, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I don't want to just give away Wright, but I really can't see him here next season. It's a bad combination of not being happy with a role and the coach unable to find a role for him. He had basically 0 value in the playoffs outside of garbage minutes in game 6. They had an entire season plus bubble to find a fit for him. If anything, the fit got worse as things moved along.

To be fair,

1) Our system is complex. A lot of guys take two training camps to really get it. Brunson is a grizzled vet and super high IQ and he took more than a season to really settle in.
2) Our system had to see a massive overhaul as Powell/Brunson/others got injured
3) With KP going down, we needed scoring and Burke just tore it up with scoring so he leapfrogged Wright.

KillerLeft · 10-08-2020, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I don't want to just give away Wright, but I really can't see him here next season. It's a bad combination of not being happy with a role and the coach unable to find a role for him. He had basically 0 value in the playoffs outside of garbage minutes in game 6. They had an entire season plus bubble to find a fit for him. If anything, the fit got worse as things moved along.

Yeah, good point. Not only are we not privy to how the team views Wright's chances of fitting in better on the court next year, but we also don't know whether he even wants to try. He might actually prefer to be moved, and if so, there's no value to keeping him. There might even be negatives involved with keeping him.

KillerLeft · 10-08-2020, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

To be fair,

3) With KP going down, we needed scoring and Burke just tore it up with scoring so he leapfrogged Wright.

That's interesting that you make that connection. I hadn't really considered it that way, but you might be right.

I saw the way Burke was used in the playoffs and thought "Oh, NOW I see why they were after Kemba Walker!" I really think Carlisle wants multiple playmakers on the floor (all teams who made it past the first round had this luxury), so I think he would've played a lot even with KP, but you might be right. Losing KP's scoring was a problem.

EricaLubarsky · 10-08-2020, 11:53 AM

Does anyone have evidence that Wright was unhappy with his role?

Obviously he got lost a few times and didn't play much in the playoffs, but I haven't heard that he had a bad attitude or was unhappy. Did I miss that?

KillerLeft · 10-08-2020, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Does anyone have evidence that Wright was unhappy with his role?

Obviously he got lost a few times and didn't play much in the playoffs, but I haven't heard that he had a bad attitude or was unhappy.

Oh, no. We'll probably never know. Just pointing out that it's very possible. But, tbh, he doesn't really have a "role." Wouldn't you be at least a little unhappy in that situation? Not necessarily upset in a bad or disruptive way, but tough to imagine this is the ideal scenario for either him or the team.

Look, we'll know more about what THEY think retroactively, once they play their hand. If they don't move him, then they probably feel like another year would do him some good. If that's how they feel, I'm all about it.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-08-2020, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Does anyone have evidence that Wright was unhappy with his role?

Obviously he got lost a few times and didn't play much in the playoffs, but I haven't heard that he had a bad attitude or was unhappy. Did I miss that?

His brother had a tweet mid-season and apparently they are close.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/c...h_his_brother/

Either way, I can't imagine Delon is happy with the way he is being used.

EricaLubarsky · 10-08-2020, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

His brother had a tweet mid-season and apparently they are close.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/c...h_his_brother/

Either way, I can't imagine Delon is happy with the way he is being used.

I don't think the Mavs were super happy with him, but I think everyone is a professional.

Mavs are either going to do what they need to to make him a net positive or they will find a place for him to be happy.

tap2390 · 10-08-2020, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

His brother had a tweet mid-season and apparently they are close.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/c...h_his_brother/

Either way, I can't imagine Delon is happy with the way he is being used.

Put me down for move Wright, sign De’Anthony Melton.

mac222b · 10-08-2020, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Put me down for move Wright, sign De’Anthony Melton.

Would RC actually play the guy though? I feel the same way about DJJ. Both shot like 28%-29% from 3 I think. Delon shot close to 38? And was a plus rebounder and solid defender, at times actually a game changing defender/energy guy for us. I know he had trouble with the offense. I just think that whoever we draft or sign in FA it’s incumbent that RC be on board and they are one of “his guys” at this point.

KillerLeft · 10-08-2020, 04:28 PM

DJJ doesn't even play for the team he's on NOW, tbh.

tap2390 · 10-08-2020, 05:02 PM

Fair point about whether Carlisle would even play Melton. I think the difference between someone like him and Wright is that Wright isn’t accepting of his role despite never proving to be anything more than a decent spot guy.

The reason I am quick to give Carlisle the benefit of the doubt is he tends to be correct about players relative to their eventual career trajectory. It’s not like he’s completely inflexible, just look at Hardaway’s progression because of adjustments made by Carlisle. I tend to think Wright is simply not as good as he thinks he is.

Now, I really hope I am incorrect. I hope the Mavs and Wright are on the same page and he comes back next season with a vengeance. Based on what I’ve seen and heard however, he is pouty and unengaged when not playing. We need leadership and tough players who stay in their lane.

EricaLubarsky · 10-08-2020, 06:09 PM

In the NBA, guards gotta shoot like 32% from three or they don’t play

tap2390 · 10-08-2020, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

In the NBA, guards gotta shoot like 32% from three or they don’t play

This simply isn't true, you need your top guys that can get baskets, but you don't need a team of shooters. The Lakers and Nuggets were both bottom 10 in three pointers made during the regular season and worse than average three point shooting %. What we desperately need is a guard that will willingly play hard, energetic team defense. Just watch Melton go to work, we didn't have a single player that defended like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OGaqrP48&t=65s

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-08-2020, 10:24 PM

Podcast where they interviewed WCS recently. He said he bought a house in Dallas as a hint to whether he likes it here or not. Pretty sure he'll opt in.

EricaLubarsky · 10-08-2020, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

This simply isn't true, you need your top guys that can get baskets, but you don't need a team of shooters.

You're right. It's not true that you don't get to play if you can't hit a decent percentage.

If you don't shoot 32%, you don't play for a winning team.

Want to know what teams over .500 had a starting PG shoot under 33%? Hint: it's only two teams in the entire league.

Mavs with Doncic (32%), Sixers with Simmons (26%) and Rockets with Westbrook (26%).

Neither Doncic not Westbrook would even start if they weren't absolutely absurdly good at other things. You need to be at least decent 33%+ to even be considered for major minutes unless you are absolutely a freak.

KillerLeft · 10-08-2020, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

You're right. It's not true that you don't get to play if you can't hit a decent percentage.

If you don't shoot 32%, you don't play for a winning team.

Want to know what teams over .500 had a starting PG shoot under 33%? Hint: it's only two teams in the entire league.

Mavs with Doncic (32%) and Rockets with Westbrook (26%)

Neither Doncic not Westbrook would even start if they weren't absolutely absurdly good at other things.

Totally agree.

KillerLeft · 10-08-2020, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Podcast where they interviewed WCS recently. He said he bought a house in Dallas as a hint to whether he likes it here or not. Pretty sure he'll opt in.

For sure. He would lose a ton of money by opting out right now. 0% chance this happens, imo.

What podcast was it?

KillerLeft · 10-08-2020, 10:59 PM

Nevermind. Found it.

EricaLubarsky · 10-08-2020, 11:42 PM

Well we certainly have enough centers. How strange. It’s weird to think a month ago people wanted more bigs

KP/Powell/Boban/Kleber/WCS

That’s way deep if WCs opts in. Also makes you wonder how we make time for them all. KP is too slow to play much forward.

Now we just need more talent 2-4

SMC0007 · 10-09-2020, 09:53 AM

We need a machine that can consolidate all the "specialists" we have, and turn them into solid 2 way players.

KillerLeft · 10-09-2020, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

We need a machine that can consolidate all the "specialists" we have, and turn them into solid 2 way players.

Man, that's the truth!

2-way players are where it's at.

EricaLubarsky · 10-09-2020, 11:59 AM

I mean, is that really saying anything to say that we need more guys with a more complete skillset?

KillerLeft · 10-09-2020, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I mean, is that really saying anything to say that we need more guys with a more complete skillset?

Yes, but I DO think this is an area where Donnie has struggled, traditionally. The team has always seemed to bring in "defenders" who can't really be played during important stretches due to their lack of an offensive game. You can go all the way back to guys like Buckner (and probably before that, but I started watching from the start of the Cuban era, basically) to confirm this.

The list of guys who are difference makers on the defensive end but also good offensive players is a short one, so they're hard to find. Many of the names on that list are superstars, in fact. So, easier said than done. But, I feel like I've seen Donnie sign so many defensive "specialists" over the years, and to your point from earlier about shooting percentages, they don't really get played, at least not during stretches that matter in games that matter. And, this isn't a Carlisle thing - it was the case with Nellie and Avery, too, as well as most of the other coaches from winning teams around the league. I've just kind of gotten to the point where I don't get excited about singings like that. Like Wright, they simply aren't going to be on the court when things matter.

When examining the teams that made the second round or better this season and comparing them to our Mavs, there are many differences that pop up, and while "the presence of difference making defenders in the rotation" is one of them, I don't think it's the only one, or even the most important, necessarily. It's WAY true that the Mavs' defense needs to improve, but there's more to that than just adding better defensive players to the mix. All of the final 8 teams played better TEAM defense than the Mavs did, for example, and that's coming from someone who believes the Mavs' team defense was way better against the Clippers than it was during the regular season.

A difference that I think might be even MORE important is that all of the final 8 teams had the ability to put multiple play makers on the floor at the same time. Ironically, the least effective example of this is probably Houston, who literally starts two point guards. Everyone else had a MUCH better plan than the Mavs to combat the half-court traps and random doubles that Luka is going to see much more of as the team gets deeper and deeper into the playoffs. Early season, these tactics prompt a pass that finds an open shooter. But by the time the playoffs come around, you're playing teams who A) understand their own defensive system much better B) understand YOUR offensive system almost as well as you do, and the result is that the correct pass out of these situations RARELY finds an open shooter. Instead, the correct pass is more like a hockey assist, and the guy who catches it NEEDS to be good enough to take advantage of the 4 on 3 situation so that HIS pass can find an open shooter. To me, this was the MAIN difference between the Mavs and all of the true contenders this season.

SMC0007 · 10-09-2020, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I mean, is that really saying anything to say that we need more guys with a more complete skillset?

When you don't have any news, just say something else more creatively

I was just bored enough to re-stress a point that we have plenty of one trick ponies.

Seeing things like we could trade a pick and change for Frank (for example), which isn't going to happen, is not what we need.

MFFL · 10-13-2020, 09:42 AM

Vecenie's latest mock has us with Aleksej Pokusevski at 18 and Tyrell Terry at 31

I'll be thrilled if we get both

EricaLubarsky · 10-13-2020, 10:48 AM

ESPN is the most reliable historically and they have currently have

Saddiq Bey with #18 and Udoka Azubuike with #31

I don't get Azubuike with #31 with KP, Powell, Kleber, Boban, and maybe WCS on the roster and Tyler Bey still available. That's five centers ahead of him, three of which have longterm deals (WCS is PO, Boban expires after this season)

Saddiq in the first round would be an absolute steal and they have Tyler Bey going #35 so he'd still be on the board.

Scoobay · 10-13-2020, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

ESPN is the most reliable historically and they have currently have

Saddiq Bey with #18 and Udoka Azubuike with #31

I don't get Azubuike with #31 with KP, Powell, Boban, and maybe WCS on the roster and Tyler Bey still available.

Saddiq in the first round would be an absolute steal and they have Tyler Bey going #35 so he'd still be on the board.

i'd love to get both Beys

KillerLeft · 10-13-2020, 12:15 PM

SBey would be a good pick and a good value at #18. He's kind of the last dude on the "could help immediately" list, imo.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-13-2020, 05:42 PM

No way S. Bey is available at 18.

KillerLeft · 10-13-2020, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

No way S. Bey is available at 18.

I tend to agree, but a shocking number of mocks have him there. To be fair, I would take him there in a second, but I can also see why he could potentially fall a bit.

He's a good shooter, but his release point is super low. More in front on his face than over his head, and he's not all that quick, laterally, for someone planning to make their way in the league as a defender.

But, yeah. He's very polished, relative to many of the other prospects. Villanova seems to pump out well-trained players. I could see him going in the top 10, but wouldn't be shocked if he got past #18, tbh.

I think the absence of blue chippers at the top of this draft, along with way less opportunity for teams to evaluate these guys as they traditionally would have are setting up a CRAZY draft night. We might see lots of unexpected stuff.

tap2390 · 10-13-2020, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

I tend to agree, but a shocking number of mocks have him there. To be fair, I would take him there in a second, but I can also see why he could potentially fall a bit.

He's a good shooter, but his release point is super low. More in front on his face than over his head, and he's not all that quick, laterally, for someone planning to make their way in the league as a defender.

But, yeah. He's very polished, relative to many of the other prospects. Villanova seems to pump out well-trained players. I could see him going in the top 10, but wouldn't be shocked if he got past #18, tbh.

I think the absence of blue chippers at the top of this draft, along with way less opportunity for teams to evaluate these guys as they traditionally would have are setting up a CRAZY draft night. We might see lots of unexpected stuff.

Good point that I haven't seen YT vids and scouting sites bring up. His release is relatively slow and starts low. He does show enough all-around scoring prowess to be selected 10-17 though. I agree the draft will have some surprises, but for the most part I think the top 10-20 guys is pretty well defined.